Geert and Joshua,
Thanks so much for the replies. They were very helpful. I re-read the CMF and templates sections of the wiki and studied the javadocs a little further, the presentation video, etc. and when I compared the CMF code from the wiki and the example included in Joshua's response with the "simple blog" example, and loaded the example and tinkered with the beans, elements, and templates, and then "merged" these ideas with the crud jumpstart . . . wow! . . . the light bulbs went off and then I was able to get things accomplished! And, of course I was able to learn quite a bit about the structure of RIFE by working through this and the examples. Thanks again, I look forward to productivity with RIFE. I am sure more questions will come! Geert, You asked: "I'm interested to know what attracted you in RIFE? Why did you decide that it might be suitable for you?" As for the reasons that I "wanted to choose" RIFE, as opposed to other quality frameworks that I took a looked at, well, you basically outlined them on the front the rifers.org page, but the ones that especially caught my attention were: Logic-less templates ( YES! ) Meta-programming, meta-data merging (This is excellent, far more intuitive than other frameworks) language independent templating support (Excellent, as I have been trying to work more with xml, xsl, but still can use xhtml, html, and as I get better with Java . . choice is a great thing.) integrated persistence layer and the CMF (nice that is integrated) stateful components, as demonstrated on the last tutorial video (This is nice. Portlet-like functionality without the added complexity. I really hate jsps!) The tutorials were excellent, and demonstrated the strengths of the framework and things clicked about the possibilities, even if it will take me some time to actual see them come to life, the "clicking" happened for the first time really, not that I have been at this very long. The framework allows me, as a beginner, to understand many concepts and does not require me to take a look at Spring, Hibernate, etc. - but offers most of the same functionality. Of course, as I progress as a developer, because of RIFE's flexibility, integrating with another framework seems like it would be incredibly easier with RIFE as opposed to other frameworks, without the need for excessive reworking of the existing application(s). The reduction of complexity with a very minimal reduction in sophistication (and as far my purposes now, none that I necessarily worry about, I am just going with the 90% mentioned on the front of the RIFE homepage :-) ) leads to a very complete, elegant framework that, as Joshua stated, takes some time to digest, but still allows someone like myself to start being productive almost immediately (with the help of the list of course!). Thanks again, Austin On Aug 6, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Geert Bevin wrote: > > Hi Austin, > > first, welcome and congrats on making the step of posting to a > mailing list. Many people are too shy to ever do so. Don't be afraid > about asking seemingly 'stupid' questions, we all were beginners > once, and when moving to something new we all ask about what seems > obvious for the initiated. Just for you to know, as a rule of thumb > in public mailing lists, the only attitude that can get people angry > is when someone clearly hasn't even bothered to read the > documentation or search the internet, and expects others to do his > work for him. This is clearly not your case. > > The rest of my answers follow in-line with your questions: > >> I apologize if this question has been answered or seems very >> juvenile, but I have searched the forums, reviewed code, and watched >> all of tutorials, viewed the wiki, etc., and it just does not seem >> evident on exactly how to retrieve items created in the "back end" of >> the crud jumpstart for view in the "front end". > > > I'll try to explain the architecture a bit, and hope to be clear and > simple enough. I've never actually had to explain this and I honestly > can't believe that I didn't think of adding a section about this to > the RIFE documentation. Also, when searching Google I can see that > the real useful information is hidden amidst the wealth of search > results. > > RIFE (and most other frameworks) adopt a three-tier application > architecture. This means that your application has three clearly > distinct aspects: a data tier (database), an application tier (web > server with web framework), and a client tier (browser). This is a > break down of what typically happens when someone uses an application > in this application, I think this should help you get further along: > > 1. They send what is called 'a request' through their browser by > visiting > the URL of your application. > > 2. That request is intercepted by your web server and some logic is > executed on the application tier. This could for instance go to > the > database to retrieve some data, or read a file from the file > system of > your web server. > > 3. The web server sends back the data to the user through what is > called > 'a response'. > > 4. The browser receives the response and displays it to the user. > > Steps 1 and 3 work thanks to the HTTP protocol that bundles both the > request and the response in a single 'operation'. Basically what > happens is this: > > * the browser sends data, and waits for an answer > * the web server was waiting for data, receives it and sends a > response > * the browser received the response and shows the result > > >> I am very new to programming, and I am just trying to learn, so >> please do not ridicule too much. ;-) >> >> I have spent the last few months trying to "pick" a framework to dive >> into. I worked mostly with struts2 and jsf, but dabbled with >> stripes, wicket, grails, spring mvc, the usual suspects, and stumbled >> upon RIFE. > > Cool, thanks for having taken the time to go through our > documentation and examples. I'm interested to know what attracted you > in RIFE? Why did you decide that it might be suitable for you? I'm > asking this since it's very interesting to know what newcomers think > of the project, people usually don't stay 'new' very long, so it's > difficult to get that kind of information ;-) > >> After watching the tutorials and getting my feet wet, reading some >> material on the web comparing RIFE to other frameworks, a recurring >> theme was that at first glance things are not what they seem, you >> must use it. So that is what I am trying to do. > > Good call! This is what I said to many people already, without using > it you'll never experience RIFE for what it is. Just reading and > trying to imagine how it would work will just make it a lot harder > and slower to get up to speed. Once you start using it, a lot just > falls into place and feels natural. > >> I have spent most of my spare time this last week trying to >> understand RIFE by reading and watching, now I am trying to build a >> simple web-app starting with the crud jumpstart. Anyhow, I feel like >> a dunce and that right now, the beauty and simplicity of the >> framework that is evident aside, I am just missing something. > > Thanks for the compliments. I hope my answers above give you some > insight. > >> Are there any training courses available for RIFE? > > No, there are no formally organized courses for RIFE. I started > writing one, but realized that for the little demand, writing a full > course with training materials, class exercises, etc. etc. is not > economically viable and probably a waste of time. I think that I can > make better use of my free time to improve the framework. Anyway, if > you have questions, feel free to ask them here. We'll try to help you > out. > >> I own an RIA (no, not a rich internet application ;-) ), but a >> Registered Investment Advising firm. I would like to develop some >> custom applications for the web. I am a small start up, and have >> limited resources. I know that I am eventually going to need an >> outside developer. Still, I also want to know the process in depth >> so I can develop some small pieces on my own and choose the framework >> that makes the most sense, not the just one that is easiest to find a >> developer. > > That's a brave attitude and it makes a lot of sense when you're not a > big company. The more established solutions are generally a good idea > if you need to be able to hire a lot of developers easily and want > them to already know the technology. It also makes it a lot easier to > replace one person by another on the team. > > In a small company, you need all the help you can get to achieve > results quickly and be able to reuse your efforts as much as > possible. This is exactly why I created RIFE seven years ago, since > I'm basically a one-man web development company that hires friends > when I need more hands on the job. The people you will eventually > hire will be an integral part of your company and generally not > easily replaceable. Them learning a framework will be a small effort > for good developers. The most important part is that they still use a > framework and not just code in their corner. That fact by itself > makes it possible, in the unlikely even of them quitting or so, to > have a well structured code-base that someone else can sink his teeth > in. > >> After all the searching, I very much would like to choose RIFE. > > Thanks for the confidence :-) > >> Anyhow, I apologize for the long winded question and introduction, I >> usually try to figure it out before I post, so this is the first post >> on any mailing list. Like I said, I feel like I am just missing >> something, so I thought I would ask. > > Hope my replies got you further along, don't hesitate to ask more > questions if the need arises. > > Best regards, > > Geert > > -- > Geert Bevin > Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org > Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com > RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org > Music and words - http://gbevin.com > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rife-users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rife-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
