Hi Austin, Thanks for your testimonial ... it's nice to hear that the ideals of RIFE clicked that well with you!
Take care, Geert On 07 Aug 2007, at 17:18, Austin Coose wrote: > Geert and Joshua, > > > Thanks so much for the replies. They were very helpful. I re-read > the CMF and templates sections of the wiki and studied the javadocs > a little further, the presentation video, etc. and when I compared > the CMF code from the wiki and the example included in Joshua's > response with the "simple blog" example, and loaded the example and > tinkered with the beans, elements, and templates, and then "merged" > these ideas with the crud jumpstart . . . wow! . . . the light > bulbs went off and then I was able to get things accomplished! > > And, of course I was able to learn quite a bit about the structure > of RIFE by working through this and the examples. > > > Thanks again, I look forward to productivity with RIFE. I am sure > more questions will come! > > Geert, > > You asked: > > "I'm interested to know what attracted you > in RIFE? Why did you decide that it might be suitable for you?" > > As for the reasons that I "wanted to choose" RIFE, as opposed to > other quality frameworks that I took a looked at, well, you > basically outlined them on the front the rifers.org page, but the > ones that especially caught my attention were: > > Logic-less templates ( YES! ) > Meta-programming, meta-data merging (This is excellent, far more > intuitive than other frameworks) > language independent templating support (Excellent, as I have been > trying to work more with xml, xsl, but still can use xhtml, html, > and as I get better with Java . . choice is a great thing.) > integrated persistence layer and the CMF (nice that is integrated) > stateful components, as demonstrated on the last tutorial video > (This is nice. Portlet-like functionality without the added > complexity. I really hate jsps!) > > The tutorials were excellent, and demonstrated the strengths of the > framework and things clicked about the possibilities, even if it > will take me some time to actual see them come to life, the > "clicking" happened for the first time really, not that I have been > at this very long. > > The framework allows me, as a beginner, to understand many concepts > and does not require me to take a look at Spring, Hibernate, etc. - > but offers most of the same functionality. > > Of course, as I progress as a developer, because of RIFE's > flexibility, integrating with another framework seems like it would > be incredibly easier with RIFE as opposed to other frameworks, > without the need for excessive reworking of the existing application > (s). > > The reduction of complexity with a very minimal reduction in > sophistication (and as far my purposes now, none that I necessarily > worry about, I am just going with the 90% mentioned on the front of > the RIFE homepage :-) ) > leads to a very complete, elegant framework that, as Joshua stated, > takes some time to digest, but still allows someone like myself to > start being productive almost immediately (with the help of the > list of course!). > > Thanks again, > > Austin > > On Aug 6, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Geert Bevin wrote: > >> >> Hi Austin, >> >> first, welcome and congrats on making the step of posting to a >> mailing list. Many people are too shy to ever do so. Don't be afraid >> about asking seemingly 'stupid' questions, we all were beginners >> once, and when moving to something new we all ask about what seems >> obvious for the initiated. Just for you to know, as a rule of thumb >> in public mailing lists, the only attitude that can get people angry >> is when someone clearly hasn't even bothered to read the >> documentation or search the internet, and expects others to do his >> work for him. This is clearly not your case. >> >> The rest of my answers follow in-line with your questions: >> >>> I apologize if this question has been answered or seems very >>> juvenile, but I have searched the forums, reviewed code, and watched >>> all of tutorials, viewed the wiki, etc., and it just does not seem >>> evident on exactly how to retrieve items created in the "back >>> end" of >>> the crud jumpstart for view in the "front end". >> >> >> I'll try to explain the architecture a bit, and hope to be clear and >> simple enough. I've never actually had to explain this and I honestly >> can't believe that I didn't think of adding a section about this to >> the RIFE documentation. Also, when searching Google I can see that >> the real useful information is hidden amidst the wealth of search >> results. >> >> RIFE (and most other frameworks) adopt a three-tier application >> architecture. This means that your application has three clearly >> distinct aspects: a data tier (database), an application tier (web >> server with web framework), and a client tier (browser). This is a >> break down of what typically happens when someone uses an application >> in this application, I think this should help you get further along: >> >> 1. They send what is called 'a request' through their browser by >> visiting >> the URL of your application. >> >> 2. That request is intercepted by your web server and some logic is >> executed on the application tier. This could for instance go to the >> database to retrieve some data, or read a file from the file >> system of >> your web server. >> >> 3. The web server sends back the data to the user through what is >> called >> 'a response'. >> >> 4. The browser receives the response and displays it to the user. >> >> Steps 1 and 3 work thanks to the HTTP protocol that bundles both the >> request and the response in a single 'operation'. Basically what >> happens is this: >> >> * the browser sends data, and waits for an answer >> * the web server was waiting for data, receives it and sends a >> response >> * the browser received the response and shows the result >> >> >>> I am very new to programming, and I am just trying to learn, so >>> please do not ridicule too much. ;-) >>> >>> I have spent the last few months trying to "pick" a framework to >>> dive >>> into. I worked mostly with struts2 and jsf, but dabbled with >>> stripes, wicket, grails, spring mvc, the usual suspects, and >>> stumbled >>> upon RIFE. >> >> Cool, thanks for having taken the time to go through our >> documentation and examples. I'm interested to know what attracted you >> in RIFE? Why did you decide that it might be suitable for you? I'm >> asking this since it's very interesting to know what newcomers think >> of the project, people usually don't stay 'new' very long, so it's >> difficult to get that kind of information ;-) >> >>> After watching the tutorials and getting my feet wet, reading some >>> material on the web comparing RIFE to other frameworks, a recurring >>> theme was that at first glance things are not what they seem, you >>> must use it. So that is what I am trying to do. >> >> Good call! This is what I said to many people already, without using >> it you'll never experience RIFE for what it is. Just reading and >> trying to imagine how it would work will just make it a lot harder >> and slower to get up to speed. Once you start using it, a lot just >> falls into place and feels natural. >> >>> I have spent most of my spare time this last week trying to >>> understand RIFE by reading and watching, now I am trying to build a >>> simple web-app starting with the crud jumpstart. Anyhow, I feel like >>> a dunce and that right now, the beauty and simplicity of the >>> framework that is evident aside, I am just missing something. >> >> Thanks for the compliments. I hope my answers above give you some >> insight. >> >>> Are there any training courses available for RIFE? >> >> No, there are no formally organized courses for RIFE. I started >> writing one, but realized that for the little demand, writing a full >> course with training materials, class exercises, etc. etc. is not >> economically viable and probably a waste of time. I think that I can >> make better use of my free time to improve the framework. Anyway, if >> you have questions, feel free to ask them here. We'll try to help you >> out. >> >>> I own an RIA (no, not a rich internet application ;-) ), but a >>> Registered Investment Advising firm. I would like to develop some >>> custom applications for the web. I am a small start up, and have >>> limited resources. I know that I am eventually going to need an >>> outside developer. Still, I also want to know the process in depth >>> so I can develop some small pieces on my own and choose the >>> framework >>> that makes the most sense, not the just one that is easiest to >>> find a >>> developer. >> >> That's a brave attitude and it makes a lot of sense when you're not a >> big company. The more established solutions are generally a good idea >> if you need to be able to hire a lot of developers easily and want >> them to already know the technology. It also makes it a lot easier to >> replace one person by another on the team. >> >> In a small company, you need all the help you can get to achieve >> results quickly and be able to reuse your efforts as much as >> possible. This is exactly why I created RIFE seven years ago, since >> I'm basically a one-man web development company that hires friends >> when I need more hands on the job. The people you will eventually >> hire will be an integral part of your company and generally not >> easily replaceable. Them learning a framework will be a small effort >> for good developers. The most important part is that they still use a >> framework and not just code in their corner. That fact by itself >> makes it possible, in the unlikely even of them quitting or so, to >> have a well structured code-base that someone else can sink his teeth >> in. >> >>> After all the searching, I very much would like to choose RIFE. >> >> Thanks for the confidence :-) >> >>> Anyhow, I apologize for the long winded question and introduction, I >>> usually try to figure it out before I post, so this is the first >>> post >>> on any mailing list. Like I said, I feel like I am just missing >>> something, so I thought I would ask. >> >> Hope my replies got you further along, don't hesitate to ask more >> questions if the need arises. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Geert >> >> -- >> Geert Bevin >> Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org >> Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com >> RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org >> Music and words - http://gbevin.com >> >> >> > > > > -- Geert Bevin Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org Music and words - http://gbevin.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rife-users" group. 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