Have I missed something?
Allen Gilliland wrote:
Dave Levy wrote:
tagagg should have date created and date last used so getNewtags can be
written at some time. Ideally the user that first creates a tag should
be recorded on the tagagg row, so we build a show innovators query
create tagagg (name, datecreated, dateused, firstuser, timesused )
timesused = select count(*) from tags where name = $myname This is a
deoptimisation
select firstuser, name
from tagagg
where datecreated > now - $period
and timesused > $interesting_threshold
I'm not sure I understand the usefulness of these. Why do you want to
see the popular tags that you happened to be the first to use?
You don't, see below.
Most tags are going to be reused over and over again, so who cares who
was the first one to use the tag "java" or "glassfish"? It seems to
me that having that info would not give you any insight into something
of value.
The site wants to know who the early adopters of popular tags are,
although maybe we should populate a lot of the obvious tags with admin
(or even better me). This is an attempt to capture some of the data that
is needed to implement Elias' concept of strength. I thought that a list
of innovators would be cool.
I think the same goes for datecreated. What is the purpose of knowing
when the first time a tag was used? Think one year down the line,
will there be any reason do know that someone first used the tag
"java" 11 months, 8 days, and 14 hours ago? Technically that data
will be stored, since we capture a date element on the tag reference
itself, but I don't think we need it in the aggregate data.
This is needed so that we can retire people's innovativeness (see above)
i.e. the Innovators are those who first used a tag that is currently
popular, and the most innovative is the person that started the most, or
maybe we should weight the popularity into it.
-- Allen
This doesn't have to be done for the next release.
I sort my mail most recent first and I have been on the road for the
last two weeks so there may have been some discussions
I missed and my comments are out of place. If so, sorry.
Elias Torres wrote:
Allen Gilliland wrote:
Elias Torres wrote:
Allen Gilliland wrote:
Elias Torres wrote:
Allen Gilliland wrote:
Elias Torres wrote:
Allen Gilliland wrote:
On a slightly separate note, one other thing we need to think
more
about
is the model methods. Just like macros we want to keep those as
trimmed
and clean as possible.
In general the models like page and feed which are stateful and
represent a request should provide methods to get at the data
from
that
request. So I think for these models the getTags() method
should
return
the set of tags specified by the request, and null if no tags
were
specified.
I'm not sure I understand what does: "set of tags specified by
the
request". Could you please clarify a bit more?
meaning that when someone requests the url /weblog/tags/foo+bar or
/weblog/feed/entries/rss?tags=foo+bar then the output of
$model.getTags() should be the 2 EntryTagData objects for "foo"
and
"bar". this follows the existing pattern where getLocale() or
getCategory() will return the value that is being used to
render the
content (i.e. as specified by the request).
getTags() returns just the tag name and the tag count. I don't
want to
use the tags specified in the request. getTags() is what we feed
into
the #showTagCloud macro to render. The difference between
getHotTags()
and getTags() is the sortBy method and the limit. In
getHotTags() we
only want 10,20,50. In getTags() we want them all (at least for a
blog).
Enter the limit parameter. If the site-wide tag cloud is too big
we can
restrict it to the top 100 and use a slider to get 300, 1000 via
a url
parameter or AJAX if needed (Note: your idea below of a lastUsed
would
be a much better tie-breaker when fetching top XXX instead of
alphabetical sorting).
well, I think it's very important that you provide a method in the
stateful models like pageModel & FeedModel that they have a
method that
returns the tags which are part of the weblog request, and by
convention
that method should be named getTags(). I don't care if you
return the
TagAggData object instead of the EntryTagData object.
I see what you mean now. Just a method for accessing the request
tags.
I still don't understand what you intend to do with a tag cloud
which
has hundreds or thousands of tags, that seems absurdly large to
me. So
I am still not okay with having a way for users to get *all* of
their
tags. Look at most sites like flickr.com/tags/ or
technorati.com/tags/
or del.icio.us/tag/, none of them offer tag clouds of more than
150ish
tags.
I didn't say I wanted all tags for a site-wide. Maybe I have
mistakenly
said so somewhere else.
I wasn't actually being specific for site-wide vs. weblog, I think the
issue holds for both cases.
"If the site-wide tag cloud is too big we can restrict it to the
top 100
and use a slider to get 300, 1000 ..."
I am still thinking ... 300? 1000? Where do you see tag clouds that
big? Why do people need tag clouds that big?
You are right that 1000 is WAY overkill, but see my comment below.
This m
We must remember the "long tail" (I can't believe I said that).
I don't know what that means :/
It's just the fact that sometimes more people are interested in looking
for different tags less popular as opposed to a whole bunch of people
looking for the same tags always.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail
I said a *weblog* would most likely need all of its tags for entry
navigation and I doubt that would get to 10,000 or more. But sure, we
can/should limit that (at least parameterize it with a default).
Why would it need all of its tags? I think we are fully justified in
setting a maximum value for the number of tags which get returned to
users. If you are really concerned about what this value would be
then
make it configurable, so that it can default to something like 150 but
be changed to 1000 if someone thinks that's okay.
In any case, despite this issue over an imposed limit on the result
set
size of querying for tags, I am also still of the opinion that it
doesn't really make sense to have a method called getTags() for a
site/weblog. I was thinking about this a bit more and I think that it
would be totally fine if we only had a getHotTags() method which
returns
the XXX tags with the highest counts. Then to give users a little
more
freedom I suggest we try adding in that "lastUsed" column to the
tagagg
table so we can track dates and then have a getHotTags(sinceDays)
method
which would let users get their hottest tags in the last XX days.
IMO that covers the majority of scenarios where I think users are
going
to want to get their tag data and make clouds.
Agreed. I'll get back to work. Thanks for all your
feedback/dialogue/suggestions/evil comments/etc. I like the Roller
team.
-- Allen
-- Allen
--
Dave
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