I think I will end my debate about this also.
thanks for the great dicussion.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Romuald Restout
To: 'Michael Hill'; 'Ng, Pan Wei '; Romuald Restout
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Sent: 12/1/00 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Hi,
I think we can talk a long time about use-cases before everybody agree.
So this will also be my end to this debate.
My position is still quite the same as Michael, even afer re-re-reading
the Martin Fowler's whitepaper.
Bye
Romuald
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hill [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:21 AM
To: 'Ng, Pan Wei '; 'Romuald Restout '
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Hi,
I have read the article before, but I did reread just know. But near
the
end of the article he made some statements which really describe to me
what
he was talking about. Here is a quote by Martin Fowler: "I primarily
put
my attention to system use cases, for they are the most useful for
iteration
planning and system testing. However with every system use case I think
about whether there is another user use case which is sitting behind
it."
Now this is only a small exert from the article but I think this proves
my
point. "Maintain Employee Records" might be a good system Use Case, and
I
would never use it. But the user use cases are "Add Records", etc. are
use
cases I would work with. Martin Fowler also mentions alot about "Abuse
by
Decomposition" but I would tend to look at that more of I have a "Add
Records" use case and then decompose "Add Records" down to other use
cases,
such as "Add Address", etc. I WOULD NOT propose that at all in this
case.
I do agree with Martin Fowler about decomposition is dangerous but lets
not
get carried away and not decompose a system use case some. What I hope
I
have is a medium between the the two.
This is my end to this debate on Use Cases.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ng, Pan Wei
To: Romuald Restout
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/30/00 11:08 PM
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Hi,
1. You can actually have a basic flow in The Maintain employee. How this
is
done can be found in our training materials.
2. There are many ways to look at use cases and abuse them. I do not
wish to
get myself into this debate as it has occurred many time before. Please
check out www.usecasehelp.com/wp
to read some papers on this matter and what the experts have to say, esp
the
one on the uses and abuses of use cases.
Cheers
--Pan-Wei Ng
Rational Software (Singapore)
-----Original Message-----
From: Romuald Restout [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: 01 December 2000 00:11
To: 'Ng, Pan Wei'; Michael Hill
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Seems to me that in the "Maintain employee" use-case you cannot define a
basic flow, but severals !
So I would say : several use-cases !
-----Original Message-----
From: Ng, Pan Wei [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:00 AM
To: Michael Hill; Ng, Pan Wei
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Of course the observable result is different! Your basic flow and
alternate
flow will give you different observable results! Should you split them
into
different use case? Definitely Not. The What are flows and what are use
cases depends on the value it brings to the actor. The "complete
sequences
of events" that are "of value to the actor". Focus on the larger picture
on
what the actor wants.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hill [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: 30 November 2000 20:45
To: 'Ng, Pan Wei '; Michael Hill
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
But the observable result would be different for "Update", "Add", etc.
If
the result is different, then you have broken the definition of a Use
Case.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ng, Pan Wei
To: Michael Hill
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/30/00 6:46 AM
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Hi,
The definition of a use case is A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS PERFORMED BY THE
SYSTEM
THAT YIELDS AND OVSERVABLE RESULT WHICH IS OF VALUE TO THE ACTOR. Focus
on
the phrase "of value to the actor". Is adding records by itself of value
to
the actor? Think of a system in context. If it can only add records, but
cannot browse, delete, edit. Is it of value to the actor. If it is, I
agree
with you. BUT IN MOST cases, what the actor wants is to be able to
mantain
records, Add, Delete, Update, Browse and Search, and use case like this
in
most cases are NOT BIG.
Cheers
--Pan-Wei Ng
Rational Software (Singapore)
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hill [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: 30 November 2000 20:33
To: 'Ng, Pan Wei '
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
I disagree with what was stated below, Update Records, etc. are not
flows
in the Use Case. Think about you alternalte flows or exceptional flows,
it
would cause the Use Case to be to big. Split them up in smaller Use
Cases.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ng, Pan Wei
To: CHIAM CHOON YEE, LSD; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Sent: 11/29/00 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
Hi,
Your suggested approach is what we call "functional decomposition". This
is
actually one of the pitfalls of mis-applying use cases. Your update
records,
delete records, add records and view records are flows of events within
the
Maintain Employee Records use case. Each of them is documented as an
interaction diagram, not a use case.
What you can do is as follows: Right Click use case. Select New-->Create
Sequence Diagram, and rename them as update records, delete records, add
records and view records respectively.
Cheers
--Pan-Wei Ng
Rational Software (Singapore)
-----Original Message-----
From: CHIAM CHOON YEE, LSD [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: 29 November 2000 21:59
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: (ROSE) Use Cases and UC Diagram
>From what I understand, Use Case Diagram captures all the use cases
which
describes the functionalities of the system in relation to the system.
Usually, I would want to keep the main use case diagram uncluttered,
simple
and neat. However, when I do that, I lose the details.
As an example, I use "Maintain employee records" as a use case. In this
use
case, I actually have
* update records
* delete records
* add records
* view records
Is there any good way to layer the use cases conveniently? That is, I
click
into one particular use case, if there is a layer of use case diagram
below
it, the diagram will be blown up?
Thanks.
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