Johan,
I did a quick overview of the HOORA process on your website and did not see any
process for a persistence model (Data Model). Is that a deliberate oversight?
Even RUP recognizes persistence modeling as a distinct activity.
Thanks,
Abby
==========================
Johan Galle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Les,
>
> The bug you talk about, considering requirements entering, has been
> corrected.
>
> And yes, I believe in HAT, because I have seen so many teams choosing for
> "UML" who really needed more guidance than an editor supporting each of the
> UML diagram types.
>
> As for the "inflexible process", I would like you to elaborate on this. The
> goal of HAT is to provide process ingredients, such as the static and
> dynamic model concepts. UML gives you the freedom to draw a class diagram
> anytime you like. And so does HAT. But users need a technique to obtain a
> consolidated view, summarizing all information on various class diagrams.
> The same thing applies for sequence diagrams. Sequence diagrams are a nice
> technique, but you concentrate on one particular scenario, and you risk not
> being in synch with the other sequence diagrams. So, you should be able to
> summarize them into a dynamic model diagram, ...
>
> Requirements ? Right now, I often get the impression that UML books seem to
> imply that requirements analysis is just about drawing diagrams. How about
> analysis, requirements, dictionary terms, ...
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Johan
> =========================================
> Johan Galle
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> HOORA, the practical approach to UML: http://www.hoora.org
> =========================================
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 21:49
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: (ROSE) Rose vs Select vs Together vs HAT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Johan,
> >
> > You really believe in this HAT then :-)
> >
> > Actually, I downloaded the evaluation version and took it
> > with on a week's
> > conference. I'm sorry to say, that after 3 days of
> > experimenting, I do not
> > have your faith in HAT.
> >
> > 1) The process implemented by the tool is too inflexible. I'm
> > not saying
> > that HOORA is not a good process, it's just that I have
> > certain artifacts
> > in my process that HAT did not allow me to implement.
> >
> > 2) Way TOO many bugs. Anyone would think that Rational had
> > had a hand in
> > the coding :-) It would not allow me to enter my requirements
> > through the
> > requirements management window and if I tried to force them
> > into the tool
> > via the tree view pane HAT would go down.
> >
> > The idea is good, I will have another look in the future if
> > you can assure
> > me that the bugs have been ironed out.
> >
> > Les.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Johan Galle
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
> > "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
> > >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: cc:
> >
> > owner-rose_forum@ra Subject:
> > RE: (ROSE) Rose vs Select vs Together vs HAT
> > tional.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 04/09/2001 03:38 AM
> >
> > Please respond to
> >
> > Johan Galle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is my major requirement for a UML tool:
> >
> > A UML TOOL HAS TO SUPPORT THE MODELING PROCESS
> >
> > Tool developers have misunderstood the UML standardization in their
> > conclusion:
> >
> > ALL THAT A UML TOOL HAS TO DO IS TO SUPPORT THE UML NOTATION
> >
> > UML tools should not be just a collection of diagram editors.
> >
> > We defined a "set of process ingredients", which is far more
> > concrete than
> > "here are the diagrams", and which is also far more concrete than the
> > over-generic RUP. We validated this in work we did for the
> > European Space
> > Agency. These ingredients are still flexible enough to cover
> > many needs.
> >
> > These are some of the ingredients we introduce:
> > Requirements, Terms dictionary, automatically generated
> > diagrams that have
> > a
> > pre-defined meaning (static model, dynamic model, package
> > summary), tracing
> > requirements to all kinds of model elements, distributing the
> > requirements
> > linked to use cases X to the classes introduced in sequence
> > diagrams under
> > use case X, hierarchy rules and metrics, ...
> >
> > The static model of class X is a class diagram showing this
> > class X and
> > all
> > the classes statically related to X. The dynamic model of
> > class X shows
> > class X and all the classes (dynamically) interacting with it
> > (based on
> > sequence and collaboration diagram information). The package summary
> > diagram
> > of package X shows package X and all the packages it depends
> > upon. The good
> > thing is that all these diagrams are automatically kept consistent.
> >
> > With these ingredients, it is easier to create your own "process".
> >
> > Take a look at http://www.hoora.org or browse through this
> > step by step
> > example: http://www.hoora.org/hoora_example.htm.
> >
> > I feel that the whole UML standardization has led to far less
> > emphasis on
> > the process. And the support you get from "UML tools" is
> > really minimal.
> > CASE tools are supposed to be more than drawing tools. Not
> > giving enough
> > support in order to still cover a large enough user base is
> > wrong (I hope).
> >
> > For this HOORA process, we developed a tool, HAT (HOORA
> > Analysis Tool).
> > (And
> > yes, we can read .mdl files)
> >
> > And I would like to add HAT to your list of tools.
> >
> > Regards,
> > =========================================
> > Johan Galle
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > HOORA, the practical approach to UML: http://www.hoora.org
> > =========================================
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Damian Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:17
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: (ROSE) Rose vs Select vs Together
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > While the list is discussing Together, could I suggest a
> > > broader discussion.
> > >
> > > I am currently looking at a replacement for Rose and I am
> > > looking at both Together and Select and would like to know
> > > peoples experience of Select as well :>
> > >
> > > One of the main criteria I am looking for is the ability
> > > of a tool to read Rose mdl files. We just have too many
> > > on going Rose designs.
> > >
> > > I am also looking for:
> > >
> > > o Stable design tool (Rose 2001 is too buggy, Rose has cost
> > > my project this year ~£7000 in lost time, we have had to
> > > go back to 2000e).
> > > o Better way for documenting (being able to use more then
> > > just text, and to be able to specify additional sections
> > > within a textual description).
> > > o Better documentation generation (yes we have SODA, but I've
> > > gone for modifying the reportgen_plus script).
> > > o Workable reverse engineering.
> > > o Ability to generate code from state diagrams.
> > > o Easier to use GUI (less mouse clicks and more sensible layout).
> > > o Better team support.
> > >
> > > Please don't limit your comments to Rose, Select and Together
> > > as I know there are other tools out there as well.
> > >
> > > I look forward to hearing peoples comments and suggestions...
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Damian
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --------------
> > > -----------------------
> > > Damian Dixon, BSc(Hons), BSc(Hons), FRGS
> > > ODS Design Authority
> > > Senior Software Development Engineer
> > > TENET Defence Ltd.
> > > North Heath Lane
> > > Horsham
> > > West Sussex
> > > RH12 5UX
> > >
> > > Tel: +44 1403 273173
> > > Fax: +44 1403 273123
> > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://www.tenetdefence.com
> > >
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