I¹m not sure why allowing the flexibility of per-AF configuration for the
ISIS dual-stack case has become such a lighting rod for contention.
However, you reminded me that I need to respond with a use case.
Acee 

On 3/5/15, 3:07 AM, "Jeff Tantsura" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi Stephane,
>
>Looks good.
>How do you plan to express this in YANG model you have been working on?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Regards,
>Jeff
>
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 8:36 AM, "[email protected]"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I updated the draft section in this way, I used MAY for per AF and per
>>MPLS control plane. I think "MAY" is better as it may fit everyone's
>>point of view (it's not strong and permit optional support).
>> Let me know your thoughts asap please. I would like to post the draft
>>before cut off.
>> 
>> 
>>   An implementation of LFA SHOULD allow its activation with the
>>   following criteria:
>> 
>>   o  Per routing context: VRF, virtual/logical router, global routing
>>      table, ...
>> 
>>   o  Per interface
>> 
>>   o  Per protocol instance, topology, area
>> 
>>   o  Per prefixes: prefix protection SHOULD have a better priority
>>      compared to interface protection.  This means that if a specific
>>      prefix must be protected due to a configuration request, LFA must
>>      be computed and installed for this prefix even if the primary
>>      outgoing interface is not configured for protection.
>> 
>>   An implementation of LFA MAY allow its activation with the following
>>   criteria:
>> 
>>   o  Per address-family: ipv4 unicast, ipv6 unicast
>> 
>>   o  Per MPLS control plane: for MPLS control planes that inherit
>>      routing decision from the IGP routing protocol, MPLS dataplane may
>>      be protected by LFA.  The implementation may allow operator to
>>      control this inheritance of protection from the IP prefix to the
>>      MPLS label bound to this prefix.  The protection inheritance will
>>      concern : IP to MPLS, MPLS to MPLS, and MPLS to IP entries.  As
>>      example, LDP and segment-routing extensions for ISIS and OSPF are
>>      control plane eligible to this inheritance of protection.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rtgwg [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Hannes Gredler
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 18:30
>> To: Martin Horneffer
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback required
>> 
>> martin,
>> 
>> can you describe what are the pain points of FRR protecting
>> *all* your traffic (IPv4/IPv6/labeled/unlabeled) ?
>> 
>> why would you want your traffic not being protected ?
>> 
>> /hannes
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 05:54:44PM +0100, Martin Horneffer wrote:
>> | Hello everyone,
>> | 
>> | I really do see a good use-case for turning on IP-FRR protection for
>> | just one address family, and it does not have anything to do with
>> | making IPv6 customer better or worse than IPv4 customer traffic.
>> | 
>> | Consider the IP/MPLS network I have today. Several address families
>> | are active in the backbone, but all customer traffic is carried in
>> | MPLS packets guided by IPv4-signalled LDP. This holds for ANY
>>customer 
>> | traffic, whether it is public IPv4, public IPv6, VPNs in IPv4 or IPv6
>> | or L2-VPNs. Unlabeled
>> | IPv4 traffic also exists in the same backbone, but only for routing
>> | protocols themselves, and/or network management. Thus there is no
>>need 
>> | to protect this unlabeled IPv4 traffic in the same way as the
>>customer 
>> | MPLS traffic.
>> | 
>> | In the future, I might activate IPv6 in the backbone and introduce
>> | more and more routing and management protocols with IPv6. Still no
>> | need to protect IPv6. Eventually I might shift LDP (or SR) from IPv4
>> | controlled to IPv6 controlled. What was
>>IPv6-over-IPv4-controlled-MPLS
>> | becomes plain IPv6-labeled traffic then, and IPv4-labeled traffic
>>will 
>> | become IPv4-over-IPv6-controlled-MPLS. At THAT point in time it
>> | becomes important to protect the IPv6 controlled MPLS traffic, and
>> | thus the IPv6 address family in the IGP, but no earlier.
>> | 
>> | So please do not mix up control traffic and customer traffic,
>>internal 
>> | routing and customer routes. Thank you.
>> | 
>> | Best regards, Martin
>> | 
>> | 
>> | Am 24.02.15 um 16:02 schrieb Hannes Gredler:
>> | >On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 03:55:32PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
>>wrote:
>> | >|    I can imagine cases in which the per AF enabling might make
>>sense (e.g.
>> | >|    when the network associated w one address family is deemed
>>non-critical).
>> | >
>> | >
>> | >HG> as it is unlikely that operators will tun off IPv4 protection,
>> | >     may i have a ask that you repeat that quote above in the 6man
>> | >     meeting ;-) ? - effectifely you're saying "IPv6 may be
>>considered
>> | >     as less critical", and therefore we SHOULD provide a knob
>> | >     to turn protection off.
>> | >
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Section 5.1 is a SHOULD - as is most of the document. It is
>>therefore a
>> | >|    suggestion as to what an implementation should provide. If a
>>given
>> | >|    implementer thinks this is either too onerous or not useful
>>they can omit
>> | >|    it w/o being in violation. But I see no reason to eliminate
>>this - and in
>> | >|    actual practice I would expect the cost of supporting such a
>>knob to be
>> | >|    low cost. It is hard for me to see this as controversial.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|       Les
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    From: [email protected]
>>[mailto:[email protected]]
>> | >|    Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:10 PM
>> | >|    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Pushpasis Sarkar; Jeff Tantsura;
>> | >|    [email protected]
>> | >|    Subject: RE: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback
>> | >| required
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    [Les:] I think your point here is that the LFA calculation is AF
>> | >|    independent within a given topology - but resources are consumed
>> | >|    independent of how many computations are required- giving an
>>operator the
>> | >|    ability to determine which prefixes are most critical seems
>>useful. That
>> | >|    could be per AF or per prefix.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    [SLI] Agree but is the "resource saving" point strong enough to
>>mandate
>> | >|    per AF activation ?
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [[1]mailto:[email protected]]
>> | >|    Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 05:01
>> | >|    To: Pushpasis Sarkar; Jeff Tantsura; LITKOWSKI Stephane
>>SCE/IBNF;
>> | >|    [2][email protected]
>> | >|    Subject: RE: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback
>> | >| required
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Pushpassis -
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    From: rtgwg [[3]mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>Pushpasis
>> | >|    Sarkar
>> | >|    Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 3:28 AM
>> | >|    To: Jeff Tantsura; [4][email protected];
>>[5][email protected]
>> | >|    Subject: Re: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback
>> | >| required
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    HI Jeff et al,
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    I can think of a reason to have a knob per-level(or per-area)
>>or per ISIS
>> | >|    topology(note in ISIS a topology in ISIS always corresponds to
>>a single
>> | >|    AF,)
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    [Les:] This is a common mistake to make. If one simply uses RFC
>>5308, then
>> | >|    IPv6 prefixes can be advertised in the same topology as IPv4
>>(MTID #0) -
>> | >|    and there are implementations which support this. More
>>generally, from the
>> | >|    protocol's POV a given topology can support any combinations of
>>address
>> | >|    families. It is only a convention because of the reserved MTIDs
>>specified
>> | >|    in RFC 5120 that certain MTIDs are "IPv6 only". But if one
>>looks at the
>> | >|    protocol capabilities such a restriction does not exist in
>>general.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Interestingly you contradicted yourself below. J
>> | >|
>> | >|    But I did want to set the record straight on this point -
>>hopefully we are
>> | >|    in agreement.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    and per realm and topology in OSPF. But I cannot think of a
>>reason of why
>> | >|    within the same topology we need another set of knobs for each
>>AF. Here,
>> | >|    by AF I understand IPV4 or IPv6.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    When both IPV4 and IPV6 are part of the same IGP topology,
>>there is only
>> | >|    one set of backup computations needed to protect both IPV4 and
>>IPv6
>> | >|    traffic.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Also I cannot think of any motivation for an operator to turn on
>> | >|    protection on only one AF and does not want to turn on for the
>>other even
>> | >|    if both AFs has been deployed for normal forwarding.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    [Les:] I think your point here is that the LFA calculation is AF
>> | >|    independent within a given topology - but resources are consumed
>> | >|    independent of how many computations are required- giving an
>>operator the
>> | >|    ability to determine which prefixes are most critical seems
>>useful. That
>> | >|    could be per AF or per prefix.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|       Les
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Thanks
>> | >|
>> | >|    -Pushpasis
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    From: Jeff Tantsura <[6][email protected]>
>> | >|    Date: Friday, February 20, 2015 at 12:59 PM
>> | >|    To: "[7][email protected]"
>><[8][email protected]>,
>> | >|    "[9][email protected]" <[10][email protected]>
>> | >|    Subject: Re: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback
>> | >| required
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Hi Stephane,
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    /chair hat off
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    IMO in disjoined topologies one should have flexibility to
>>enable/disable
>> | >|    LFA as per AF.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    Cheers,
>> | >|
>> | >|    Jeff
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|    From: "[11][email protected]"
>> | >|    <[12][email protected]>
>> | >|    Date: Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:21 PM
>> | >|    To: "[13][email protected]" <[14][email protected]>
>> | >|    Subject: LFA manageability : per AF config => feedback required
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      Hi Folks,
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      As you know, LFA manageability draft is in final phasis ...
>> | >|
>> | >|      The current document states per AF granularity activation as
>>a SHOULD.
>> | >|
>> | >|      "
>> | >|
>> | >|   [15]5.1.  LFA enabling/disabling scope
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|     The granularity of LFA activation should be controlled (as
>> | >| alternate
>> | >|
>> | >|     nexthop consume memory in forwarding plane).
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|     An implementation of LFA SHOULD allow its activation with the
>> | >|
>> | >|     following criteria:
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|     o  Per address-family : ipv4 unicast, ipv6 unicast, LDP IPv4
>> | >| unicast,
>> | >|
>> | >|        LDP IPv6 unicast ...
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|     o  Per routing context : VRF, virtual/logical router, global
>> | >| routing
>> | >|
>> | >|        table, ...
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      "
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      In the framework of ISIS/OSPF yang modelization, we are
>>challenging this
>> | >|      statement, do we really need to force implementation to
>>support this
>> | >|      "per AF" granularity ?
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      Please provide as soon as possible your feedback on this and
>>also
>> | >|      provide clear drivers to support or not per AF activation of
>>LFA.
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      Thanks for your help !
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      [16]Orange logo
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|      Stephane Litkowski
>> | >|      Network Architect
>> | >|      Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE
>> | >|
>> | >|      Orange Expert Future Networks
>> | >|
>> | >|      phone: [17]+33 2 23 28 49 83
>> | >|      mobile: [18]+33 6 37 86 97 52
>> | >|      [19][email protected]
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|  
>> | >| ___________________________________________________________________
>> | >| ______________________________________________________
>> | >|
>> | >|
>> | >|
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>> | >| References
>> | >|
>> | >|    Visible links
>> | >|    1. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    2. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    3. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    4. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    5. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    6. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    7. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    8. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|    9. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   10. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   11. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   12. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   13. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   14. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >|   15. 
>>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-lfa-manageability-07#section
>>-5.1
>> | >|   16. http://www.orange.com/
>> | >|   17. 
>>https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=http%3A%2F%2Fclicvoic
>>e.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%26ro
>>otservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%202%2023%2028%2049%2083%20
>> | >|   18. 
>>https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=http%3A%2F%2Fclicvoic
>>e.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%26ro
>>otservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%206%2037%2086%2097%2052%20
>> | >|   19. mailto:[email protected]
>> | >
>> | >
>> | >
>> | >| _______________________________________________
>> | >| rtgwg mailing list
>> | >| [email protected]
>> | >| https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
>> | >
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>>________________________________________________
>> 
>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
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>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez
>>recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
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>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme
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