Dear Rakesh,

Your case clearly falls u/s 19. You file RTI and PIO promises to give
information although belated. After 45 days of RTI you file FA,
Appellate orders PIO to give information. Even after 6 months you dont
get information so you file COMPLAINT which is converted to 2nd Appeal
by CIC. You are still awaiting date at CIC. At *present time* your
case falls under section 19.

Had you filed a Complaint instead of First Appeal, your case would
have been different. What is clearly emerging from these discussion
(your case / Col Kurup's matter) is that Complaint should be made
immediately after expiry of about 35-40 days of filing the RTIO
request. By scheme of RTI Act Section 18 Complaints are the PREFERRED
route vis-a-vis Section 19 Appeals. However, the CIC/SIC will not like
this (extra load on them), so they will do their best to divert
citizens to file First Appeals INSTEAD.

Sarbajit

--- In [email protected], RAKESH GUPTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> dear sir,
> kindly note , my case does not fall any sub section section 19 of
appeal.
> because no decision is made for denial, and they had promise to
provide the information.
> although no information is provided till date.However it fala in
section 18(1) of the RTI ACt.
> with regards
> rakesh gupta
> 
> sroy1947 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:                               Hi Rakesh,
>  
>  Your case is very different from Col Kurup's.
>  
>  Neither PIO nor AA has denied you information or cited any exemption.
>  In fact the intention is clearly to give you the information. since
>  you were late in filing 2nd Appeal you filed complaint probably
>  relying upon the clauses 18(1)(c) and/or 18(1)(e). CIC has converted
>  this to appeal and registered it.
>  
>  Since delay in filing seems condoned, and for Central matters there is
>  not much difference between Complaint and Appeal, all that remains now
>  is for your appeal to be disposed of in the normal course - CIC is
>  running late by 6/9 months now. The only alternative you have is to go
>  to High Court in Writ jurisdiction asking for supervision of CIC u/a
>  227. If there are some compelling grounds for urgency, you can inform
>  these to C'IC or CIC Registry asking for early date BEFORE going to
>  High Court.
>  
>  Sarbajit
>  
>  --- In [email protected], RAKESH GUPTA <snehcs2@> wrote:
>  >
>  > DEAR SIRS, 
>  >   KINDLY SUGGEST WHAT ALTNATIVE I HAVE, IN PRESENT SITUATION.
>  >   i filed RTI request. No information is given. However, LD CPIO had
>  inform me that he will shortly supply the infomation . after 45 days
>  of RTI , i had filed first appeal. A A directed to supply the
>  information. 
>  >   However, after 6 months of AA order no infomation is supplied.
>  >   After this, i had filed complaint with CIC. CIC had registered as
>  appeal, and no date of hearing is fixed till date although three
>  months are over.
>  >   Is CIC is right to register complaint as appeal , when F AA order
>  is direction to CPIO to supply the infomation.
>  >   Is it not delay tactis by CIC.
>  >   with regards
>  >   rakesh gupta
>  > 
>  > sroy1947 <sroy1947@> wrote:
>  >           Dear Col Kurup,
>  > 
>  > You are too emotionally attached to this matter to debate
logically. I
>  > am only debating this academically (for further education) since I
>  > have high regard for you.
>  > 
>  > 1) It is very well settled that when there are multiple remedies for
>  > granting a particular relief, the litigant may only agitate one of
>  > them. This is allied to the legal concept of "res adjudicata" or "a
>  > thing once decided cannot be reagitated again (and again)". So you
>  > must choose to use 18(3) or 19(1) but not both. This principle is so
>  > well settled that it is not inserted into the laws of India.
>  > 
>  > 2) 18(3) is the specific provision in the RTI Act for your lis -
>  > namely deemed refusal of the PIO. You failed to use it at the right
>  time.
>  > 
>  > 3) Having chosen the route of 19(3) which is ALSO permissible, you
>  > should have followed it up with a 2nd Appeal rather than going for
>  > 18(3) complaint after the avenue was closed.
>  > 
>  > 4) S'CIC very kindly allowed you to continue on to 2nd Appeal, but 
>  > you chose not to pursue it. 
>  > 
>  > 5) A bad carpenter blames his tools. Either be a bad carpenter with
>  > better tools OR become a good carpenter who will be able to work with
>  > the very poor tools of RTI Act.
>  > 
>  > Sarbajit
>  > 
>  > --- In [email protected], "colnrkurup" <colnrkurup@> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > I repeat that this may kindly be considered only as an accademic 
>  > > discussion clarifying a very vital factor to prevent hijacking
of the 
>  > > RTI Act by some of the corrupt and influencial officials with the 
>  > > connivance of the Commissions.
>  > > 1. There is absolutely no provision anywhere in the Act that 
>  > > stipulate that a First Appeal under 19(1) bar a complaint u/s
18(1)(c)
>  > > 2. In fact one is not expected to approach SIC/CIC as and when
with 
>  > > the deemed refusal of the PIO lest the Commission is
over-burdened. 
>  > > It is normal protocal to approach the Commission only when an 
>  > > aggrieved exhaust all other opportunitiesstipulated in the Act. 
>  > > Naturally when the PIO refuces, one should approach his AA by the 
>  > > only means of approach viz., first appeal. In majority of the
cases 
>  > > the AA will direct the PIO to furnish the reply - it maynot be the 
>  > > information sought; but one will get a reply as the PIO will
not have 
>  > > any reason for not replying.I donot find anything wrong in
making one 
>  > > more first appeal based on the reply if required. In case this 
>  > > second "first appeal" is rejected, it is good enough reason. 
>  > > 3. Section 19(1) is very specific. Any person not receiving a 
>  > > decision ....may file an appeal. IT DOES NOT SAY SAY that on
deemed 
>  > > refusal one should not file first appeal but should resort to 
>  > > complaint only.
>  > > 4. Sec 19(3) is too specific. A SECOND APPEAL SHALL LIE ONLY
AGAINST 
>  > > THE DECISION UNDER 19(1). This means that there could be no Second 
>  > > Appeal unless there is a DECISION of first appeal. If there is NO 
>  > > DECISION or NO REPLY, there cannot be a Second appeal. The Act
does 
>  > > not allow it.Of course anything can happen in "KHANSI RAM KA 
>  > > PALTAN ".Thjat is a diferant matter altogether
>  > > 5. Kindly forget the number of days or delay aspects. That is not 
>  > > the issue
>  > > 6. Can anyone quote the relevant Section of the Act which says
that A 
>  > > SECOND APEAL SDHALL LIE without a First Appeal ? 
>  > > 7. Can any one quote the Section which bar a complaint when first 
>  > > ppeal is made or rather where does it state that a first appeal 
>  > > disqualify the appellant from making a complaint.
>  > > 8. Kindly leave aside the somersoult of First appeal, Second
appeal 
>  > > and complaint. Let us examine the ground realities. A cityzen
make an 
>  > > application seeking an information falling under the defenition of 
>  > > information given in Section 2(f). The information is held by
the PA 
>  > > and not falling under any of the exedmptions or disportionately 
>  > > divert the resosurces nor spoil the record. Can anyone, PIO or
AA or 
>  > > the SIC, deny it and dismiss the case just because the
information if 
>  > > given will expose serious corruption which the PIO, AA and SIC
does 
>  > > not want to disclose. By converting the Complaint suo motu into a 
>  > > Second appeal the sIC has barred the appellant's chance to
prefer the 
>  > > second appeal with relevant provisions which does not suit the
PIO,AA 
>  > > and SIC. With such a disposal how can one approach judiciary ?
These 
>  > > are all deliberate hy-jacking theRTI Act. I feel that forums
likeRTI-
>  > > india should stand for that. Can anyone justify the above 
>  > > actofSIC,Kerala ? It is an open challenge 
>  > > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  >                          
>  > 
>  >        
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>                                
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