Gents...
Looks like Bill Lane's belief that "every ruckus dies down in three days" is
still holding true -- even with the recent controversy over NCE's ability to
run locos without a decoder. It is gratifying to know that my messages are
actually read. It is interesting to realize that one person is so convinced
he is correct that he sends me offlist copies of every posted message that
claims I am wrong. As if I couldn't read those messages onlist for myself
in the first place. Then there was the fellow who wrote to ask that I
arrange to delete the incorrect message from the List archives. But he did
not state which message was incorrect or offer any proof of why it was
incorrect. So life goes on in the Big City and human nature will probably
not change a great deal as a result. But what is the correct answer to the
question before us?
That question, as I understand it, is: "Will the NCE DCC system operate a
loco without a decoder?" Gotta make sure we have a common understanding of
the question before attempting to answer it in more detail. Are we all on
the same wavelength regarding the question?
If I remember correctly, Don Thompson opined that it could, but probably
would require an extra circuit board. I responded by stating the NMRA
compliance assured that a non-decoderized loco could be operated without any
additional hardware by the NCE system. A variety of folks stated they had
tried it with their NCE systems without success. Michael Greene stated that
NMRA compliance does not require the ability to operate a non-decoderized
loco. So who is right? Who is wrong? Is there an "in between"? Could we
all be right? Could we all be wrong? Where is Ed L. going with this long
dissertation?
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that Michael Greene is the only person
who is totally correct. Congrats to Mr. Greene. He knows his stuff. All
the rest of us are partially correct and/or partially wrong -- depending on
how you look at it. There is an "in between" possibility which deserves
some explanation. A history lesson of the early days of DCC might be useful
in order to shed light on the original question posed above.
In the beginning (pre-Adam & Eve), the creators of DCC wanted to ease the
transition pains from DC to DCC. This was important so that DCC would
survive and become popular and succeed. One way to accomplish this
objective was to make sure DCC systems could also run non-decoderized locos.
Thus, a loco fleet could be converted gradually over time and not require a
huge investment for all locos right at the beginning. An early draft
version of the DCC standards included a requirement for the "stretched zero"
technique for running non-decoderized locos. This solved the transition
issue quite nicely and folks were smiling.
However, the requirement for the "stretched zero" provision was deleted from
the standards before the NMRA membership voted to accept the standards due
primarily to concerns over possible legal/patent issues with Lenz. However,
the NMRA standards do allow/permit the use of "stretched zero" if a DCC
manufacturer wants to use the technique. But, as Michael stated, it is not
required. Thus, the NMRA is off the hook if there turns out to be a legal
problem some day since it is not required. In this specific instance,
Michael was right and I was wrong. "Stretched zero" is ALLOWED, but not
REQUIRED. Got all that?
As DCC systems were developed and entered the marketplace, many (perhaps
most) of them had the "stretched zero" capability designed in. As time went
on, some problems became more obvious than before: motors ran hot,
potential damage to conventional motors became a concern, smooth running at
slow speed was not great, a noisy buzzing sound was obvious and reports
surfaced claiming coreless motors actually suffered damage from running on
"stretched zero" waveforms. Some loco manufacturers then jumped on the
anti-stretched-zero bandwagon and stated that their warranty would be
invalid if the loco was run on "stretched-zero" DCC. In particular, ATLAS
N, KATO N, and LGB were the major firms that raised the warnings at that
time.
In addition, some DCC firms were concerned that motor damage and poor/noisy
slow speed running would make it appear that DCC was a poor alternative to
conventional DC. Word of mouth is powerful and there was a desire to
prevent any widespread negative reactions. As time went on, some DCC firms
ended the practice of having "stretched zero" capabilities in their product
line. Other DCC firms continued to include "stretched zero" in their
product lines. While I do not claim any expertise in other (non-NCE) DCC
systems, I think that Bachman, Atlas, Digitrax and Lenz all still have
"stretched zero" to this day. I could be wrong here, so please don't string
me up if some detail is not quite right. Just going from hearsay and
recollection on this particular point.
As a side note, one should note that the NMRA standards do REQUIRE an NMRA
compliant decoder to accept a "stretched zero" digital packet and respond
appropriately. But transmission by the command station of a "stretched
zero" packet is not required -- only permitted.
The astute among us will notice that I have not said anything about NCE in
the above dissertation. Am I avoiding the basic question? Nope, just
wanted to set the stage for the NCE part of things. Here goes.....hang
on.....
In the early days, NCE entered the market with a system called MASTER
SERIES. This product offered "stretched zero" capability not as an
off-the-shelf standard feature, but only if a special modification was done.
The modification was not difficult and NCE would readily tell you how to do
it. It was a do-it-yourself modification for those customers who really
wanted the "stretched zero" ability and understood what they were getting
into. NCE was concerned about liability for motor damage and did not want
to publicly promote the use of "stretched zero". And so they offered it
quietly under the table -- sort of.
In my personal case, I have one of the early MASTER SERIES command stations
and it can, in fact, transmit "stretched zero" commands if I do the
modification. I have not actually done the modification and have no intent
of ever doing so, but it is a real life capability built into the NCE DCC
system. As it turns out, NCE sold about 1,200 of the MASTER SERIES systems
before offering their newer POWERHOUSE PRO system. I think it is fair to
say that there are 1,200 NCE systems on Planet Earth that can operate a loco
without a decoder -- if they are slightly modified.
With the release of POWERHOUSE PRO, NCE redesigned a lot of circuitry and
developed new circuit board layouts and eliminated the ability to EASILY
modify the system to provide "stretched zero" commands. Likewise, the
market was seemingly developing the attitude that there was little reason to
mix non-decoderized locos with a DCC system anyway. The world was sort of
moving toward the concept of doing one or the other without trying to mix
them together. So NCE quietly dropped the whole idea of "stretched zero"
without any great fanfare in it's new product line. Interestingly, it is
still possible to modify a POWERHOUSE PRO to provide a "stretched zero"
command, but is VERY DIFFICULT to do so and NCE really does not want to tell
you how to do it anyway. There is no desire to open Pandora's box if you
get my drift. So, from a practical point of view, the newer NCE systems
cannot operate a loco without a decoder. I apologize for my misleading
comment which started this ruckus in the first place. I should have been
more precise and thorough with all the details.
The basic question "Can NCE's DCC system operate a loco without a decoder?"
has two answers: Yes, if you have a MASTER SERIES that has been modified.
No, if you have a POWERHOUSE PRO. Since the transition to POWERHOUSE PRO
took place about ten years ago, the opportunity to obtain a MASTER SERIES is
probably limited to eBay or train flea markets. These older systems are
still alive and working out there and are still supported by NCE with parts
and repair service, etc. NCE has none and retailers probably have none
either after all this time. It is certainly true that currently produced NCE
systems cannot operate a loco without a decoder.
If anyone really wants to run locos without a decoder, please contact me and
I will let you have my MASTER SERIES in exchange for your new POWERHOUSE
PRO. Whadda deal!! The features, capabilities and software are identical
in all other respects.
Hopefully, this explanation will suffice to keep everyone happy. Wouldn't
want any unhappy S scale guys, y'know.
"S"incerely....Ed L.
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