Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 10.6.beta5 released

[Henri Girard]

I read this long litanie and suddenly I notice ubuntu as a kind of same 
problem : Bugs continuining ... Continiously ! Not big bug but a bit 
annoying ... So I tried another distro manjaro !

Fortunatly I am not an expert in maths, so sage it's my good friend and 
I think I will never be able to reach the problems described in the text 
! 😂

Sage in ubuntu was perfect for me till version 9.5 deb ! Because I could 
pip all necessairy libs (a lot) and they all linked, but now I stop to 
10.5 version, I tried conda what a horror ! I don't understand their 
envs activated !

All libs are no more connected that's awful !

My life doesn't depend of all that stuff, so I am an happy retired man 
playing with all those linux beauties !

Arch/ manjaro does well the job, I like this kind of building programs 
but some are quiet difficult to install too, with time I hope I will get 
rid of it them...

well la morale de l'histoire : Dao de sage = Dao de qin ! La voie de 
Sage ou du sage !

best my young friends I am 80 this year !

And thanks to all for this fantastic sage !

Henri

Le 09/02/2025 à 18:39, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 3:06 AM Sébastien Labbé <sla...@gmail.com> wrote:
With Ubuntu 22.04, compiling 10.6.beta5 worked. Thank you.

Running doctests with optional and external packages that I care about yields a 
lot of failures. A summary of them is pasted below. It seems that the big 
amount of developers we gain by going to github or the extraordinary automatic 
machines did not replaced humans taking care of these failures.
(I started to write a short answer, but it quickly become a long one. Sorry.)

As humans engaged in pushing through their grand visions rather than
fixing bugs, and automatic machines they added haven't really worked
well with testing optional packages, the problems we had only got
worse.

The failures are mostly due to the legacy code noone active in the
project understands well enough, or pehaps not at all:

* ginac/pynac (the fork diverged from Ginac quite far many years ago,
it's an old C++ code, so no outside help, although Ginac project is
still alive; the original developer of pynac fork has long left the
project completely)

* libsingular interface (libsingular is undocumented, and while
developers at Kaiserslautern are responding to our questions, their
primary interests are integration into the Oscar project; the
interface developer has his interests shifted to other projects, and
he's a very busy academic now, managing big grants)

* (lib)maxima interface is faithfully reproducing Maxima bugs, old and
new, not something upstream is fixing fast enough.

* libgap interface has some bugs, which, again, are partly on us,
partly on GAP. As GAP's primary current goal is integration into
Oscar, they are stretched very thin. The primary developers of the
interface are either not active anymore, or too busy. (the gappy
effort, of spinning the libgap python interface into a separate
project, has stalled)

* givaro/linbox/fflas-ffpack collection has not seen a release in
about 4 or 5 years. Given that C++ compilers evolve quite fast, this
is a growing probem.

* cypari/cypari2 interface to pari/gp does not have the original
developers working on them any more, or not much,
while there are unresolved  memory management problems.

All these interfaces have a problem which comes from the C/C++
compilers optimising more and more.
They are all creating handles for externally managed in C/C++ code
objects, and the handles have to stay in sync with these external
objects in systems which is some cases have their own built-in GCs.
One has to orchestrate the working together of the latter GCs with
Python's own GC. It's particularly tricky when an external system has
to recover from an error, e.g. an error in a function call.
A scary bug we saw with libgap not long ago is of this sort - in calls
to libgap an optimising compiler allocates these handles on registers,
which are invalidated immediately after the call, producing a crash
(on Python 3.12 - earlier it would be "just" a memory leak).

The high level decision making is almost paralysed in the project.
There are divergent opinions on how it has to go forward, and the
wishful thinking that it can go on as it is has (or had in the recent
past) too much weight to even allow to agree on changing the outdated
motto "creating a FOSS alternative to big Ms". The effort to create a
standing council/technical committee has stalled - the project has no
real leadership of any form, no decisions

In my opinion we only have a fighting chance to survive, in a long
run, if we stop grandstanding, humble down to being a good, normal
member of the Python universe, shed as many vendored dependencies as
possible (in particular almost all the vendored Python packages),
simplify the build system to a sane level, and concentrate on fixing
the above grave issues.
And still it's only a fighting chance, as the amount of work to be
done is huge, this kind of work is tricky software engineering work,
and financing it is hard.

I am going to give some efforts to treat these failures during Sage Days 128 
that we organize in Le Teich [https://wiki.sagemath.org/days128]. At least try 
to split the issues and create relevant tickets.

Do you know if I can still use my old meta-ticket to centralize the 
organization of those failing doctests?
meta-ticket: failing internet/optional doctests #25536: 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues/25536
yes, sure, #25536 is a normal, open, GitHub issue, it points to the
correct GitHub issues/PRs, etc. You can do as you please with it.

Dima


Cheers,

Sébastien

***

Running doctests with ID 2025-02-08-19-46-27-f417099d.
Git branch: develop
Git ref: 10.6.beta3-426-gdc99dc846c5-dirty
Running with SAGE_LOCAL='/home/slabbe/GitBox/sage/local' and 
SAGE_VENV='/home/slabbe/GitBox/sage/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10'
Using 
--optional=build,ccache,debian,dot2tex,external,glucose,kissat,notedown,pandoc_attributes,pip,rst2ipynb,sage,sage_spkg
Features to be detected: 
4ti2,SAGE_SRC,benzene,bliss,buckygen,conway_polynomials,coxeter3,cplex,csdp,cvxopt,cvxopt,database_cremona_ellcurve,database_cremona_mini_ellcurve,database_cubic_hecke,database_ellcurves,database_graphs,database_jones_numfield,database_knotinfo,dot2tex,dvipng,dvips,ecm,ffmpeg,fpylll,fricas,gap_package_atlasrep,gap_package_design,gap_package_grape,gap_package_guava,gap_package_hap,gap_package_polenta,gap_package_polycyclic,gap_package_qpa,gap_package_quagroup,gfan,giac,glucose,graphviz,gurobi,imagemagick,info,internet,ipython,jmol,jupymake,jupyter_sphinx,kenzo,kissat,latex,latex_package_tkz_graph,latte_int,lrcalc_python,lrslib,lualatex,macaulay2,magma,maple,mathematica,mathics,matlab,matroid_database,mcqd,meataxe,mpmath,msolve,nauty,networkx,numpy,octave,palp,pandoc,pdf2svg,pdflatex,pdftocairo,pexpect,phitigra,pillow,plantri,polytopes_db,polytopes_db_4d,pplpy,primecountpy,ptyprocess,pycosat,pycryptosat,pynormaliz,pyparsing,python_igraph,requests,rpy2,rubiks,sage.combinat,sage.geometry.polyhedron,sage.graphs,sage.groups,sage.libs.braiding,sage.libs.ecl,sage.libs.flint,sage.libs.gap,sage.libs.giac,sage.libs.homfly,sage.libs.linbox,sage.libs.m4ri,sage.libs.ntl,sage.libs.pari,sage.libs.singular,sage.misc.cython,sage.modular,sage.modules,sage.numerical.mip,sage.plot,sage.rings.complex_double,sage.rings.finite_rings,sage.rings.function_field,sage.rings.number_field,sage.rings.padics,sage.rings.polynomial.pbori,sage.rings.real_double,sage.rings.real_mpfr,sage.sat,sage.schemes,sage.symbolic,sage_numerical_backends_coin,sagemath_doc_html,scilab,scipy,singular,sirocco,sloane_database,sphinx,symengine_py,sympy,tdlib,threejs,topcom,xelatex

[...]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/doc/en/developer/coding_basics.rst  # 1 doctest failed
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src/sage/combinat/species/library.py  # 1 doctest failed
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--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/databases/findstat.py  # 3 doctests failed
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--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/databases/oeis.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/error.py  # 1 doctest failed
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--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/gamma.py  # 4 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/generalized.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/jacobi.py  # 4 doctests failed
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--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 src/sage/functions/log.py 
 # 3 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/orthogonal_polys.py  # 6 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/other.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/functions/special.py  # 10 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/graphs/generators/smallgraphs.py  # 8 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/graphs/strongly_regular_db.pyx  # 4 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/interfaces/fricas.py  # 172 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/matrix/matrix1.pyx  # 4 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 src/sage/misc/latex.py  # 
1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/misc/latex_standalone.py  # 2 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 src/sage/misc/package.py  
# 2 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/repl/interpreter.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/complex_double.pyx  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/finite_rings/integer_mod.pyx  # 2 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/finite_rings/integer_mod_ring.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/infinity.py  # 2 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/integer_ring.pyx  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/lazy_series.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/rational_field.py  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/real_double.pyx  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/rings/real_mpfr.pyx  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/symbolic/expression.pyx  # 2 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/symbolic/expression_conversions.py  # 20 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/symbolic/integration/external.py  # 14 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/symbolic/integration/integral.py  # 3 doctests failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 
src/sage/symbolic/ring.pyx  # 1 doctest failed
sage -t --long --warn-long 30.0 
--random-seed=294214240793050914365381090068790310159 src/sage/tests/cmdline.py 
 # 2 doctests failed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total time for all tests: 3506.3 seconds
     cpu time: 24639.0 seconds
     cumulative wall time: 25302.0 seconds
Features detected for doctesting: 
4ti2,conway_polynomials,cvxopt,database_cremona_mini_ellcurve,database_ellcurves,database_graphs,dot2tex,dvipng,dvips,ffmpeg,fpylll,fricas,gap_package_polycyclic,gfan,giac,graphviz,imagemagick,info,internet,jupyter_sphinx,latex,latex_package_tkz_graph,lrcalc_python,lrslib,lualatex,mpmath,nauty,networkx,numpy,palp,pandoc,pdf2svg,pdflatex,pdftocairo,pexpect,pillow,polytopes_db,pplpy,primecountpy,ptyprocess,pyparsing,sage.combinat,sage.geometry.polyhedron,sage.graphs,sage.groups,sage.libs.braiding,sage.libs.ecl,sage.libs.flint,sage.libs.gap,sage.libs.giac,sage.libs.homfly,sage.libs.linbox,sage.libs.m4ri,sage.libs.ntl,sage.libs.pari,sage.libs.singular,sage.misc.cython,sage.modular,sage.modules,sage.numerical.mip,sage.plot,sage.rings.complex_double,sage.rings.finite_rings,sage.rings.function_field,sage.rings.number_field,sage.rings.padics,sage.rings.polynomial.pbori,sage.rings.real_double,sage.rings.real_mpfr,sage.schemes,sage.symbolic,sagemath_doc_html,scipy,singular,sphinx,sympy,threejs,xelatex

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