Thanks for *not* complaining about the "multiplicative" in "Torsion
Subgroup isomorphic to Multiplicative Abelian Group..."

I once wrote a patch to fix that but no-one liked it enough.

I also tried E.change_ring(QQbar).torsion_subgroup() but that failed
for a different reason!  For some reason, E.change_ring(Qbar) has this
type:


sage: type(E.change_ring(QQbar))
<class
'sage.schemes.elliptic_curves.ell_generic.EllipticCurve_generic'>

while

sage: type(EllipticCurve(QQbar, E.a_invariants()))
<class 'sage.schemes.elliptic_curves.ell_field.EllipticCurve_field'>

which is inconsistent;  and neither helps, since EllipticCurve_field
objects don't have a torsion subgroup....

Some of this should be easy to fix.  Assuming that you could do
something useful with the torsion subgroup over QQbar!

Wait a minute:  in what sense is the torsion subgroup of J_0(11) of
structure [5,5] anyway?  Over Q it is cyclic of order 5, while over
QQbar it is (Q/Z)^2 .  So the output is worse than you thought!

John

On Apr 26, 11:57 pm, "Kenneth A. Ribet" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
> Maybe this is a frivolous comment, but I'd like to express my surprise at the 
> use of "torsion_subgroup" to mean two very different things for an abelian 
> variety and for an elliptic curve:
> sage: E=EllipticCurve('11a')
> sage: E.torsion_subgroup()
> Torsion Subgroup isomorphic to Multiplicative Abelian Group isomorphic to C5 
> associated to the Elliptic Curve defined by y^2 + y = x^3 - x^2 - 10*x - 20 
> over Rational Field
> sage: A=J0(11)
> sage: A.torsion_subgroup()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ...
> TypeError: torsion_subgroup() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
> sage: A.torsion_subgroup(5)
> Finite subgroup with invariants [5, 5] over QQ of Abelian variety J0(11) of 
> dimension 1
> sage: A.rational_torsion_subgroup()
> Torsion subgroup of Abelian variety J0(11) of dimension 1
> sage: A.rational_torsion_subgroup().order()
> 5
> sage: A.rational_torsion_subgroup().abelian_group()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ...
> AttributeError: 'RationalTorsionSubgroup' object has no attribute 
> 'abelian_group'
> I'm surprised that "torsion_subgroup" for an elliptic curve over Q refers to 
> *rational* torsion while for an abelian variety over Q it refers to *all* 
> torsion.  Further, it's frustrating to me that the rational torsion subgroup 
> of an abelian variety over Q has an order but not the structure of an abelian 
> group.  I'm sure that there are good reasons for this, but this end user is 
> kind of amazed.  Before the sage session above, I used to think that elliptic 
> curves and abelian varieties of dimension 1 were the same thing!  Live and 
> learn....
> Best,
> Ken
>
>
>
> --
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected]
> For more options, visit this group 
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/sage-support
> URL:http://www.sagemath.org

-- 
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/sage-support
URL: http://www.sagemath.org

Reply via email to