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Today's Topics:
1. less jargon (Jay Vaidya)
2. Help! (Ambujam Raman)
3. Re: pratyayAtmake (Sai)
4. Where the English Language obeys Panini?s rule. (peekayar)
5. Re: Request for Explanation (Sai)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] less jargon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
sAdhu uktam sAyyA
Good suggestions, Sai gaaru.
Here is an anvaya.
gunavR^iddhI pare yasminnaiva staH pratyayAtmake.
budheShu saditi khyAtaM tad brahma samupAsmahe..
It has two meanings and anvayas. We are all in
agreement about the first, spiritual meaning, but not
the second, humorous grammatical meaning.
anvaya 1:
yasmin pratya-atmake pare guNa-vR^iddhii na eva staH,
tat busheshhu sat-iti khyaatam, (tat) brahma
samupasmahe |
yasmin - which
pratyaya-atmake - the very knowledge or experience of
pare - afterwards
guNa-vR^iddhii - change and increase
na eva - not at all
staH - are present
tat - that
budheshhu - among the wise
sat-iti - as "sat"
khyaatam - is known
(tat) - that
brahma - brahma
samupaasmahe -- we meditate on
We meditate on that brahma, which the wise know as
"sat", after the very experience of which, there are
not at all either change or increase.
The original question is that the poet had a second
"grammatical jargon" meaning and anvaya. Based on Vis
gaaru's reading (book by Prof. Ramachandrudu, which he
quoted), I had one anvaya, and Ambujam Ramagazh,
independently, had another.
I could give them in a separate message.
On the question of should the -i be short or long?
guNa-vR^iddhi or guNa-vR^iddhii ?
We want to see what fits in the sentence.
guNa-vR^iddhi is singular and neuter. How can two
masculine things together be singular, and neuter? If
we want to talk of many things together (a list)
without paying attention to them separately, we can
use them in the singular and neuter. e.g.
asthi-rudhira-mAMsam = "bones , blood and flesh, all
together". We don't really want to draw attention to
each, but the whole group. This is a
"samaahaara-dvandva".
Sometimes we do wish to draw attention to each member
of the group. "raama-laxmaNau" = "raama and laxmaNa".
In this case, we use the number and gender expected.
This is called itaretara (itara-itara) dvandva. (or no
special name at all is given -- default state.)
I chose guNa-vR^iddhii, which is masculine and dual.
This form has been used in grammar books before, so it
would improve the grammatical humor. The stronger
reason is "staH" in the verse is in dual number, so
"guNa-vR^iddhii" had better be in dual number too.
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:29:23 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Help!
To: "sanskrit digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
While reading a certain write-up in sanskrit I came across the following sentence.
saamprataM kathaasaahityasya gauravaM paashcaatyasaahityeShu nitaraamadhikam
dariid^Rshyate
Since this is sarala saMsk^Rtam the meaning is easy to infer, viz.,
At this time the dignity of historical literature is seen well exceedingly in western
literature.
In fact I have guessed the over-all meaning since I did not know the meaning of
'dariid^Rshyate' since the rest of the words are clear or can be referred in the
dictionary.
I could not find the word 'dariid^Rsh' in the dictionary though I know it is related
to 'd^Rsh'. Is 'darii' a separate word (adjective) but which is not found in the
dictionary. (The word 'darii' or 'dari' in the dictionary means cave, cavern or a
valley. Nor can it be derived from 'dar' which means tearing or rending etc.,). Could
one of you help with a simple explanation?
Raman
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:15:23 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] pratyayAtmake
To: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I have questions in the spiritual meaning itself.
> pratyaya-atmake - the very knowledge or experience of
How could you arrive at this meaning of pratyayAtmakaH?
pratyaya doesn't seem to mean either knowledge or the experience of it.
yasmin pare pratyaya-Atmake guNa-vR^iddhii na staH eva,
budheShu sat-iti khyAtaM, tad brahma sam-upAsmahe
yasmin = in which
pare (saptamI of paraH) = higher
pratyaya = confidence, conviction, understanding, suffix, consciousness
pratyaya Atmake = conscious/intelligent person
= also means (one having confidence) confident person
guNa = division/quality/multiplication and
vR^iddhi = increase/addition
naiva staH = are not at all there.
... rest the same.
That brahma who is known as 'sat' in the wise (not 'by/to the wise'),
in whom ....
him we adore.
I still don't see how pratyayAtmaka fits into the meaning.
- Sai.
Jay Vaidya uvaacha:
> gunavR^iddhI pare yasminnaiva staH pratyayAtmake.
> budheShu saditi khyAtaM tad brahma samupAsmahe..
>
> It has two meanings and anvayas. We are all in
> agreement about the first, spiritual meaning, but not
> the second, humorous grammatical meaning.
>
> anvaya 1:
> yasmin pratya-atmake pare guNa-vR^iddhii na eva staH,
> tat busheshhu sat-iti khyaatam, (tat) brahma
> samupasmahe |
>
> yasmin - which
> pratyaya-atmake - the very knowledge or experience of
> pare - afterwards
> guNa-vR^iddhii - change and increase
> na eva - not at all
> staH - are present
> tat - that
> budheshhu - among the wise
> sat-iti - as "sat"
> khyaatam - is known
> (tat) - that
> brahma - brahma
> samupaasmahe -- we meditate on
>
> We meditate on that brahma, which the wise know as
> "sat", after the very experience of which, there are
> not at all either change or increase.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Where the English Language obeys Panini?s rule.
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
According to Panini�s rule �asterbhuuh�. �asti� takes a substitute �bhu� in some
cases and performs all the functions expected of �asti�.
In Sanskrit �tat asti� is in present tense.
In the future tense this becomes �tat bhavishyati�.
See a similar transformation in English.
�tat asti� = �that is� in English.
�tat bhavishyati� = �that will be� in English.
In �as-ti� ti is a marker. The root is �as�
which is the same as �is� in English.
In �bhavishyati� bhu is the root which is the same as �be� in English.
Here we can see how the English language obeys this Panini�s rule.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
16th sep. 2004
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:40:59 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Request for Explanation
To: Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Questions:
1. What are guNa and vR^iddhi?
Are the sandhis by those names relevant here?
- guNa sandhi (a+u = o, a+i = e, a+R = ar)
- vR^iddhi sandhi (a+e = ai, a+o = au)
2. What is guNa transformation?
How are 'a' and 'u' called guNa and vR^iddhi?
What are AdeSa and dhAtu?
- Sai.
Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> jeyaaha:
> The problem with "oM" as = "a+u+m" is that it is
> formed by a guNa transformation.
>
> oM is samaShTi praNava. It is incorrect to interpret it as the guNa-form using the
> vyaShTi components. It is more like the nityasamaasa ( a concept I would request
> Jay to explain in simple terms).
>
> I also wish to draw attention that in the shloka Pt Jagannatha has cleverly equated
> 'brahma' with 'oM' recalling the quote from shruti: 'omityekaaxaram brahmaM'. In
> this, there is a parallel of 'sugriiva' replacing 'vaali' like 'aadesha' replacing
> 'dhatu'.
> Prof Venkataraghavacharya commenting on the Raghuvamsha shloka states that in
> grammar the aadesa is final or there is no aadesha to replace an aadesha. Thus the
> installation of sugriva by Rama is final and immutable. Hence true to his reputation
> (upamaa kaalidaasasya), the poet has chosen the most appropriate comparison.
>
> Similarly in vedanta since oM is the ultimate brahmaN, the choice of comparison by
> the great poet jagannatha is par excellence.
>
> Raman
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 20
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