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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Request for Explanation (Ambujam Raman)
2. pratyayAtmake (Jay Vaidya)
3. sati saptamI (Jay Vaidya)
4. Re: Request for Explanation (Vis Tekumalla)
5. Sanskrit Puzzle No.2 - answers. (peekayar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:20:42 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Request for Explanation
To: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It is difficult to avoid jargon and technicality when one tries to be
precise. Simplicity sacrifices precision. So I will be simple but not
precise.
Sandhi is a generic term (saM = together, dhaa = join) of letters coalescing
together.
guNa and v^Riddhi are special cases.
Infact Panini defines v^riddhi before everything.
v^Riddhiraadaic | (Panini 1.1.1)
aa, ai and au are called v^Riddhi.
Immediately he defines guNa
ade^NguNaH | (Panini 1.1.2)
a, e and o are called guNa.
Now let us expand the ideas. And for simplicity let us leave out the roles
of ^lR in this discussion. The simple vowels are: a, aa, i, ii, u, uu and
^R, ^RR.
The guNa substitute for a or aa is a or aa (i.e there is no change).
The guNa substitute for i or ii is e (or ay before vowels)
The guNa substitute for u or uu is o (or av before vowels)
The guNa substitute for ^R or ^RR is ar
Now let us consider an application.
In the first class (bhvaadi gaNa) the special tenses (present, imperfect,
imperative and potential) are formed by adding 'a' to the termination with
the initial vowel undergoing guNa:
e.g., the root sah (to forbear) which is Atmanepada. Let us form third
person singular present tense: sah + a + te(termination) = sahate (since
a its own guNa)
Again root budh (to know) third person singular parasmaipada present tense:
budh + a+ti(termination) = bodh + a + ti =bodhati ( guNa of u is o)
Again root nii (to lead) third person parasmaipada singular present tense:
nii+ a+ti = nay +a+ti=nayati(though guNa of ii is e since the vowel 'a' is
in front it becomes 'ay') etc
The v^Riddhi substitute for a or aa is aa
The v^Riddhi substitute for i or ii is ai
The v^Riddhi substitute for u or uu is au
The v^Riddhi substitute for ^R or ^RR is aar
also since the gunated letters can also undergo v^riddhi we have:
The v^Riddhi substitute for e is ai
The v^Riddhi substitute for o is au
The v^Riddhi substitute for ar ia aar
Let us consider an application.
In taddhita word formation we use the pratyayas(affix) 'a' or 'ik' to
indicate a word relating to a particular noun. Here the first vowel
undergoes v^Riddhi.
e.g., sharad (Fall season) + a = shaarada (relating to Fall season)
Again dina (day) + ik = dainik (relating to day)
Again loka (world) + ik = laukik (relating to world) etc.,
We have not discussed sandhi here which though essentially similar there are
exceptions. For example bimba + oShTa = bimbauShTa (lips like Bimba fruit)
by the rules of sandhi but it is commonly used as (special case) bimboShTa
etc.
Hope this simple discussion helps!
Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Vis Tekumalla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Request for Explanation
> Questions:
> 1. What are guNa and vR^iddhi?
> Are the sandhis by those names relevant here?
> - guNa sandhi (a+u = o, a+i = e, a+R = ar)
> - vR^iddhi sandhi (a+e = ai, a+o = au)
>
> 2. What is guNa transformation?
> How are 'a' and 'u' called guNa and vR^iddhi?
>
> What are AdeSa and dhAtu?
> - Sai.
>
> Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> > jeyaaha:
> > The problem with "oM" as = "a+u+m" is that it is
> > formed by a guNa transformation.
> >
> > oM is samaShTi praNava. It is incorrect to interpret it as the guNa-form
using the vyaShTi components. It is more like the nityasamaasa ( a concept
I would request Jay to explain in simple terms).
> >
> > I also wish to draw attention that in the shloka Pt Jagannatha has
cleverly equated 'brahma' with 'oM' recalling the quote from shruti:
'omityekaaxaram brahmaM'. In this, there is a parallel of 'sugriiva'
replacing 'vaali' like 'aadesha' replacing 'dhatu'.
> > Prof Venkataraghavacharya commenting on the Raghuvamsha shloka states
that in grammar the aadesa is final or there is no aadesha to replace an
aadesha. Thus the installation of sugriva by Rama is final and immutable.
Hence true to his reputation (upamaa kaalidaasasya), the poet has chosen the
most appropriate comparison.
> >
> > Similarly in vedanta since oM is the ultimate brahmaN, the choice of
comparison by the great poet jagannatha is par excellence.
> >
> > Raman
> > _______________________________________________
> > sanskrit mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] pratyayAtmake
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
sAyI avaxIt:
> > pratyaya-atmake - the very knowledge or experience
> of
> How could you arrive at this meaning of
> pratyayAtmakaH?
> pratyaya doesn't seem to mean either knowledge or
> the experience of it.
pratyaya happens to be a word with many meanings: The
ones given in the amarakosha are:
(i) adhiina
(ii) shapatha
(iii) GYAna
(iv) vishvaasa
(v) hetu
(vi) randhra
(vii) shabda
Amar 3:147
The GYAna meaning (knowledge, often in the pratyaxa=
immediate sense, hence "experience") is the one used
in this kind of spritual context.
I suppose "consciousness" is the sense of
"self-knowledge" (really -- that is the Latin
etymology!), so we could use "pratyaya" in some
contexts.
I take pratyayAtmaka to mean something like:
pratyayaH AtmA yasya tat pratyayAtmakaM
Knowledge is the self of which = knowledge is the form
of which = "The very knowledge", "knowledge itself". I
used this to reduce the number of "which"s in English
translation.
I cannot quote the rule, but I can give an analogy of
more common termination -rUpakam.
mUrti-rUpakam = mUrtiH rUpam yasya tat.
Also
pare = saptamI of para, more commonly "after" rather
than "above"
budheshhu = "in the wise" = "among the wise"
"Known among the wise" just for idiomatic English, it
could be "the wise know it as..."
> I still don't see how pratyayAtmaka fits into the
> meaning
yasmin pratyayAtmake (both in saptamI).
When a whole phrase is in saptamI, it has the sense of
"while = during = at thae same time as..."
This structure is called "sati saptamI". "sat", in
this grammatical term means "being", so its saptamI
means "while being". Thus the name "sati" is itself an
example of "sati saptamI". That makes it easy to
remember the usage.
Another example from textbooks is:
goshhu dugdhAsu gataH
"in the cows" "in the milked ones" "he went" (How
odd!)
Actual sense is:
=yasmin kAle gAvaH dugdhAH tasmin kAle sa gataH |
He went at the time that the cows were milked. He went
while the cows were milked.
To form these "sati saptamI" the subject of the main
action "gataH" (= saH = he) has to be different from
the subject of the time-related action (=gAvaH =
cows).
If they are the same, you will use other forms, not
sati saptamI:
devadatto pachati cha vadati cha | Devadatta cooks and
talks.
shakuntalA smAraM smAraM jalpati | shakuntalA mumbles
while repeatedly remembering (something).
"yasmin kAle yaH pratyayAtmakaH, tasmin kAle" = while
that is knowledge itself...
In English translations, you have to carefully choose
between "while", "at the time of", "during",
"simultaneously as" etc. to make it sound okay.
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] sati saptamI
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The sati saptamI phrase is :
yasmin pratyaya-atmake pare (all in saptamI)
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:03:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Request for Explanation
To: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sai pR^ichChati:
Questions:
1. What are guNa and vR^iddhi?
Are the sandhis by those names relevant here?
- guNa sandhi (a+u = o, a+i = e, a+R = ar)
- vR^iddhi sandhi (a+e = ai, a+o = au)
2. What is guNa transformation?
How are 'a' and 'u' called guNa and vR^iddhi?
I will try to answer the best I can with my sophomoric knowledge of Sanskrit grammar.
My understanding of guNa and vR^iddhi is that of specific changes applied to dhatus.
Specific sandhi situations are also named as such as Sai says. But are the sandhi
names relevant here. May be. But primarily they are changes applied to dhatus (roots).
Many times a dhatu (a root) has to be adorned a little to get it ready to play with,
i.e., adding � ti, tu, anti, etc. We do it through guNa substitution. vR^iddhi
substitution too is used. Basically, we substitute the vowel contained in the dhatu.
All dhatus have a vowel. The guNa and vR^iddhi substitutions are applied to that vowel
according to definite rules. Here is a chart that summarizes those rules.
Original----------a--------------I or ii------------u or uu----------R^I or R^ii
guNa--------------a----------------e-----------------o-------------------ar
vR^iddhi--------aa--------------ai-----------------au-----------------aar
Examples of how guNa and vr^iddhi are used:
The dhatu "nii" (to lead) belongs to the 1st gaNa and according to a rule of that
gaNa, we must do a guNa substitution for "ii" in "nii". Thus, the dhatu is changed
into "ne" now. Another rule of the 1st gaNa states that you must add "a" to "ne". You
now have "nea." However, according to sandhi rules, "e", "o", "ai" and "au", when
followed by a vowel "within one word", are changed to "ay", "av", "aay" and "aav"
respectively.... As a result �nea� changes to "naya" to which you add the respective
terminations (e.g. "ti": "nayati" --he/she leads).
With "bhuu" (to become, be) the guNa substitute for �uu� is �o.� You get "bho." Then,
you are bound to add that obligatory 1st gaNa "a" to it making it "bhoa". According to
sandhi rules you substitute �av� for �o,� which results in �bhava,� which is ready to
play with (bhavati, bhavatu, bhavanti, etc.)
Also, the dhatu "bhuu" has a different meaning when transformed as one belonging to
10th gaNa (caused to become, to be).The final "uu" must be substituted by its vR^iddhi
counterpart ("au"). So, "bhuu" changes to "bhau". After this, according to the rules
of the 10th gaNa, "ay" is to be added to this "bhau": "bhauay". Obviously, "aua"
cannot exist together according to sandhi rules. So you replace "aav" for "au"
resulting in "bhaavay". Then, you are obliged to add that "a" to the base: "bhaavaya."
Now it�s ready to play.
----------------------------------------------------
Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Questions:
1. What are guNa and vR^iddhi?
Are the sandhis by those names relevant here?
- guNa sandhi (a+u = o, a+i = e, a+R = ar)
- vR^iddhi sandhi (a+e = ai, a+o = au)
2. What is guNa transformation?
How are 'a' and 'u' called guNa and vR^iddhi?
What are AdeSa and dhAtu?
- Sai.
Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> jeyaaha:
> The problem with "oM" as = "a+u+m" is that it is
> formed by a guNa transformation.
>
> oM is samaShTi praNava. It is incorrect to interpret it as the guNa-form using the
> vyaShTi components. It is more like the nityasamaasa ( a concept I would request Jay
> to explain in simple terms).
>
> I also wish to draw attention that in the shloka Pt Jagannatha has cleverly equated
> 'brahma' with 'oM' recalling the quote from shruti: 'omityekaaxaram brahmaM'. In
> this, there is a parallel of 'sugriiva' replacing 'vaali' like 'aadesha' replacing
> 'dhatu'.
> Prof Venkataraghavacharya commenting on the Raghuvamsha shloka states that in
> grammar the aadesa is final or there is no aadesha to replace an aadesha. Thus the
> installation of sugriva by Rama is final and immutable. Hence true to his reputation
> (upamaa kaalidaasasya), the poet has chosen the most appropriate comparison.
>
> Similarly in vedanta since oM is the ultimate brahmaN, the choice of comparison by
> the great poet jagannatha is par excellence.
>
> Raman
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
...Vis Tekumalla
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:42:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Puzzle No.2 - answers.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(From SitaaraavaNasamvaadajharii)
raamo vaachyativipriyo$tichalitashriistanvi niichaM vapuaH
bibhratkaananasiimni raakSasachayaayattasvayaM vetsi taM.
maaM pashyaativichakSaNo$smi bahudhaachaapaikaviirosmyahaM
labdhashriiprachayastathaasmi kimare chelaM badhaanaasakR^it..
ramae vaCyitivi�yaeitcilt�IStiNv nIc< vpu>
ib�TkannsIi� ra]scyay�Svy< veiTs t<,
ma< pZyaitivc][aeiSm b�xacapEkvIraeSMyh<
lBx�I�cyStwaiSm ikmre cel< bxanask�t!.
-----------------------------Vis Tekumalla wrote �
raamo avaachi ati vipriyo $(?)ti
= Beautiful woman, you said very unpleasant things
chalita-shriis-tanvi = (for a) slender woman whose good fortune is gone
niichaM vapuaH = (for) someone with lost pride showing up in the body
bibhrat-kaanana-siimni = (for someone) who was carried away from
(rescued from) living in the forest
raakSasa cha = and (from) raakSasas
yaa-yatta = cautiously moving
svayaM vetsi taM = you know that about him yourself
maaM pashya = (just) look at me
ati-vichakSaNo-$(?)smi = I am very wise, bright and radiant
bahudhaa-chaapaikaviirosmyahaM = In many ways I am a great warrior
with a bow
labdha-shrii-prachaya-stathaasmi = I am endowed with infinite wealth
kimare = why you (little twirp), kyaa be(Hindi), eh raa (Telugu),
enna Daa (Tamil), kee re (Oriya)
chelaM = cloth, garment
badhaanaasakR^it = desirous of wrapping around yourself (like a sari)?
Beautiful woman, you said very unpleasant things, especially for a slender
woman whose good fortune is gone, whose body betrays lost pride, and
who was infact rescued from wasting her life away in the woods; as for him
(Rama) you know yourself that he is constantly on guard scared to the core
of rakshasas. In contrast, look at me; I am very wise, bright and radiant, In
many ways I am the greatest warrior there is, and to top it all, I am endowed
with infinite wealth.
(Seeta's reply) why you (coward, little twirp), (should be) desirous of wrapping
a sari around yourself.
The answers.
raamo vaachyativipriyo$tichalitashriistanvi niichaM vapuaH
bibhratkaananasiimni raakSasachayaayattas svayaM vetsi taM.
maaM pashyaativichakSaNo$smi bahudhaachaapaikaviirosmyahaM
labdhshiiprachayastathaasmi kimare chelaM badhaanaasakR^it..
In 3 � shlokas Ravana condems Rama.
Ramah = Rama
Vaachi = in talks
ativipriyah = very non-loving
ati-chalita-shrrih = one from whom all splendour has deserted
tanvi = Oh delicate lady!
niicham = degenerate
vapuh = body
bibhrat = having
kaanana-siimni = the vicinity of the forest
raakSasa-chaya-aayattas = at the mercy of the Rakshasa gangs
svayam vetsi tam =you know him yourself
mam pashya = see me
ati-vichakSaNah = highly clever
asmi = I am
bahudha = in many ways
chaap-aika-viirah = a valiant man in using the bow
asmi-ahaM = I am
labdha-shrii-prachayah = being the abode of abundant wealth
tathaasmi = so I am
(Ravana points out to Sita the bad attributes of Rama and
the good ones of himself)
Sita replies -
kimare chelaM badhaanaasakR^it.
kimare = Oh Fool
chelaM badhaana-asakR^it = tie your cloth several times (on your chest)
(do not stand in front of me bare-bodied.)
The inner meaning �
kimare = Oh Fool
chelaM badhaana-asakR^it = repeatedly join the letter la for the letter cha.
Then it becomes �
raamo vaalyativipriyo$tilalitashriistanvi niilaM vapuaH
bibhratkaananasiimni raakSasalayaayattasvayaM vetsi taM
maaM pashyaativilakSaNo$smi bahudhaalaapyekaviirosmyahaM
labdhshiipralayastathaasmi
ramae vaLyitivi�yaeitlilt�IStiNv nIl< vpu>
ib�TkannsIi� ra]slyay�Svy< veiTs t<
ma< pZyaitivl][aeiSm b�xalaPyekvIraeSMyh<
lBXzI�lyStwaiSm
raamo = rama
vaaly-ati-vipriyah = an enemy of Baali (having killed him)
ati-lalita-shriis = with immense fame
tanvi = Oh delicate lady!
niilaM = blue
vapuaH = body
bibhrat= having (being an incarnation of Vishnu who is blue)
kaanana-siimni = in the vicinity of forests
raakSasa-laya-aayattas = bent on destroying the abodes of Rakshasas.
svayaM vetsi taM = you know him yourself
mam pashya = see me
ati-vilakSaNaH-asmi = I am odd looking
bahudhaa-aalaapa-ekaviirah = a warrior only in making several speeches
asmi-ahaM = I am.
labdha-shrii-pralayas-tathaasmi = I am a person whose splendor has vanished.
(By changing cha into la Ravana�s condemnation of Ram becomes his praise.
and his self-praise becomes his self-condemnation)
P.K.Ramakrishnan
18th Sep. 2004
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