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Today's Topics:
1. RE: "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots) (peekayar)
2. More na/Na --samAnapada issues (Balaji Srinivasan)
3. Re: More na/Na --samAnapada issues (peekayar)
4. Mahabharata (Vis Tekumalla)
5. Re: "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots) (Ambujam Raman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Further note from peekayar.
Does not seem to be correct in all situations,
For example pari + naya = pariNaya
Probably naya the root follows an upsaraga having
ra kaara.
In pra + anu both are upasargas. So the nu does not become Nu in spite of ra in the
previous upsarga.
Comments are welcome.
peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is no complication in this. Here pra and anu are two prepositions of vaadi.
They do not form one
unit as praaNu. So this rule regarding ra and Na does not apply. Whereas in praaNa,
praaNa is a
single word. Here it cannot be said praana.
Haresh Bakshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
namaste dhana.njayaji, indeed, this "n" or "N" rule requires to be ruminated
and digested.
In the mean time, another related situation, of my own creation, has been
existing. Please pardon my having to slightly elaborate:
In Indian classical music, the most important note (swara) in a raaga is
called vaadii. [vadati it vaadii.]
The next most important note (swara) in a raaga is called saMvaadii.
The remaining notes occurring in a raaga are called anuvaadii. [anu + vad
etc.]
However, among the anuvaadii notes, one particular anuvaadii note may be
more important than the remaining anuvaadii notes. Since there was no name
given to such an anuvaadii note, I coined a name for it: praanuvaadii. [pra
+ anu + vad etc.]
Now you already know my query: Is it "praanuvadii" or "praaNuvaadii" ?
Thanks for your time, and regards,
Haresh.
>From: Jay Vaidya
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 -0700 (PDT)
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>
>haresha-peeyakarayoH na-Na-nirNayavAde etat praxipyate
>mayA -
>
>I throw this into the na-Na-decision discussion of the
>haresha-peeyakara duo:
>
>pR^ishhTavAn hareshaH
> >giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste
>dhana~njaya > ...pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some
>others.
>
>tadA uktavAn peeyakaraH
> >When there is ra-kAraM, na becomes Na as in
> >rAmeNa, whereas it is only bAlena.
> > So praNAshaste is the correct one.
>
>The choice above is right but the reasoning if not
>quite right.
>
>For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
>"pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
>could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
>usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa". The
>usual rules (for within a pada) were discussed in a
>series of messages between vishvesha and me last
>month.
>
>So this form needs an exceptional rule. It relates to
>the influences between prefixes and verb-roots.
>
>Nearly all the n-starting verb roots we know are
>listed in the dhAtupATha (the standard dictionary of
>verb roots) beginning with a "N". For example,
>nashhyate comes from "Nash", namati comes from "Nam"
>etc. The few exceptions are listed below. The "N"
>changes to "n" sometime during the generation of the
>final form.
>
>If the verb-root was originally listed as
>"N"-beginning, it remains susceptible to the influence
>of "r" within the upasarga (prefix). Other
>(non-upa sarga) prefixes do not have this influence.
>Thus pra+namati = praNamati
>pra + nashhTAste = praNashhTAste
>
>This influence is the same whether the verb-root is in
>"verbal" form or in "samAsa" form.
>pra+namati = praNamati (verbal form)
>pra + nAmaH = praNAmaH (samAsa between pra+nAmaH)
>
>The few verb roots that are listed in the dhAtupATha
>as "n"-beginning are (this is the complete list):
>nR^it
>nand
>nard
>nakk
>nAT
>nAth
>nAdh
>These verb-roots are immune to the influence of the
>"r" in the upasarga prefix.
>As you can see, except for the first two, most of
>these are very rare. (Depends on what YOU are
>reading!)
>The examples are also not from everyday reading.
>pra+nardati = pranardati
>
>This is a fairly difficult rule. Sometimes words have
>the disguise of the upasarga prefix. These "disguised"
>prefixes have no effect on "n"-"N" transformation.
>For example NI -> nI = to lead
>Thus nAyakaH = leader
>With the TRUE upasarga pra it changes meaning
>pra+nI = to woo
>So a wooing suitor is
>pra+nAyakaH = praNAyakaH
>
>However, a region which produces excellent leaders can
>be described as:
>pragatAH nAyakAH asmAt deshAt (Excellent leaders from
>this region). Following certain rules, while
>describing the region, this becomes
>pra+nAyakaH deshaH.
>
>This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might look like
>an upasarga prefix, same as above -- but it is not! As
>an upasarga, it would have changed the meaning to
>"suitor", but as it is, the "leader" sense remains.
>
>So "n" remains unchanged.
>
>pranAyakaH deshaH.
>
>For some students, it is best not to learn such
>complicated rules at first study, but to slowly absorb
>them with readin g, as Haresh-ji is doing par
>excellence. And PKR-gazh needs to be congratulated for
>his fine ear that chose the correct-sounding
>alternative.
>
>dhana.njayaH
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Balaji Srinivasan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] More na/Na --samAnapada issues
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Sri Jay Vaidya alikhat:
> For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
> "pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
> could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
> usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa".
My friends and I have had a related question on this but have never found
a vyAkaraNa-panDita before to answer this. Now that we have, I am tempted
to ask this of Sri Jay Vaidya even if it might a bit tangential to the
thread:
What causes the transformation na-> Na in the words : rAmAyaNa ,
uttarAyaNa, nArAyaNa ? Clearly the "na" comes in a different pada from the
"ra".
We were told it was the rule "pUrvapadAta samj~nAyAm agaH" (8.4.3??) i.e
na->Na even if the previous pada has a na when the complete word is a
samj~nApada without a ga. This was the explanation given to us for
nArAyaNa & rAmAyaNa. We weren't sure that it was right. Moreover, how does
it apply to uttarAyaNa? It doesn't seem to be a samj~nA-pada. Are there
some other "ayana"-specific rules which cause the na->Na in these words?
dhanyavAdaH
Balaji
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] More na/Na --samAnapada issues
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There a shloka saluting vinaayaka where the last paada is - praNatosmi gajaananaM (I
forget the full text now). How does na here becomes Na?
Balaji Srinivasan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sri Jay Vaidya alikhat:
> For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
> "pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
> could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
> usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa".
My friends and I have had a related question on this but have never found
a vyAkaraNa-panDita before to answer this. Now that we have, I am tempted
to ask this of Sri Jay Vaidya even if it might a bit tangential to the
thread:
What causes the transformation na-> Na in the words : rAmAyaNa ,
uttarAyaNa, nArAyaNa ? Clearly the "na" comes in a different pada from the
"ra".
We were told it was the rule "pUrvapadAta samj~nAyAm agaH" (8.4.3??) i.e
na->Na even if the previous pada has a na when the complete word is a
samj~nApada without a ga. This was the explanation given to us for
nArAyaNa & rAmAyaNa. We weren't sure that it was right. Moreover, how does
it apply to uttarAyaNa? It doesn't seem to be a samj~nA-pada. Are there
some other "ayana"-specific rules which cause the na->Na in these words?
dhanyavAdaH
Balaji
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Mahabharata
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
mahaasayaaH:
Is Vyasa-Mahabharata available on the net? If it is, can you please post the link.
...Vis Tekumalla
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:54:23 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jay:
You appear to have overrlooked the quote I provided viz.; Panini 8.4.35 and
8.4.36 which specifially refer to the presence of 'Sh' as final. In fact the
commentator on those rules (S.C. Vasu, The Ashtaadhyayi of Panini (1891),
Vol II, p 1668) specifically says:
' When 'sh' is changed to Sh' in 'nash', the na of nash is not changed. Thus
pranaShTaH, parinaShTaH ||'
end of quote.
Will appreciate your clarification.
Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
> haresha-peeyakarayoH na-Na-nirNayavAde etat praxipyate
> mayA -
>
> I throw this into the na-Na-decision discussion of the
> haresha-peeyakara duo:
>
> pR^ishhTavAn hareshaH
> >giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste
> dhana~njaya > ...pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some
> others.
>
> tadA uktavAn peeyakaraH
> >When there is ra-kAraM, na becomes Na as in
> >rAmeNa, whereas it is only bAlena.
> > So praNAshaste is the correct one.
>
> The choice above is right but the reasoning if not
> quite right.
>
> For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
> "pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
> could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
> usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa". The
> usual rules (for within a pada) were discussed in a
> series of messages between vishvesha and me last
> month.
>
> So this form needs an exceptional rule. It relates to
> the influences between prefixes and verb-roots.
>
> Nearly all the n-starting verb roots we know are
> listed in the dhAtupATha (the standard dictionary of
> verb roots) beginning with a "N". For example,
> nashhyate comes from "Nash", namati comes from "Nam"
> etc. The few exceptions are listed below. The "N"
> changes to "n" sometime during the generation of the
> final form.
>
> If the verb-root was originally listed as
> "N"-beginning, it remains susceptible to the influence
> of "r" within the upasarga (prefix). Other
> (non-upasarga) prefixes do not have this influence.
> Thus pra+namati = praNamati
> pra + nashhTAste = praNashhTAste
>
> This influence is the same whether the verb-root is in
> "verbal" form or in "samAsa" form.
> pra+namati = praNamati (verbal form)
> pra + nAmaH = praNAmaH (samAsa between pra+nAmaH)
>
> The few verb roots that are listed in the dhAtupATha
> as "n"-beginning are (this is the complete list):
> nR^it
> nand
> nard
> nakk
> nAT
> nAth
> nAdh
> These verb-roots are immune to the influence of the
> "r" in the upasarga prefix.
> As you can see, except for the first two, most of
> these are very rare. (Depends on what YOU are
> reading!)
> The examples are also not from everyday reading.
> pra+nardati = pranardati
>
> This is a fairly difficult rule. Sometimes words have
> the disguise of the upasarga prefix. These "disguised"
> prefixes have no effect on "n"-"N" transformation.
> For example NI -> nI = to lead
> Thus nAyakaH = leader
> With the TRUE upasarga pra it changes meaning
> pra+nI = to woo
> So a wooing suitor is
> pra+nAyakaH = praNAyakaH
>
> However, a region which produces excellent leaders can
> be described as:
> pragatAH nAyakAH asmAt deshAt (Excellent leaders from
> this region). Following certain rules, while
> describing the region, this becomes
> pra+nAyakaH deshaH.
>
> This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might look like
> an upasarga prefix, same as above -- but it is not! As
> an upasarga, it would have changed the meaning to
> "suitor", but as it is, the "leader" sense remains.
>
> So "n" remains unchanged.
>
> pranAyakaH deshaH.
>
> For some students, it is best not to learn such
> complicated rules at first study, but to slowly absorb
> them with reading, as Haresh-ji is doing par
> excellence. And PKR-gazh needs to be congratulated for
> his fine ear that chose the correct-sounding
> alternative.
>
> dhana.njayaH
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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