Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: "na" / "Na" ? (Ambujam Raman)
2. Apo.aSAnaM or Apo.aSanaM? (Sai)
3. "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots) (Jay Vaidya)
4. RE: "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots) (Haresh Bakshi)
5. RE: "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots) (peekayar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:17:17 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] "na" / "Na" ?
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Apparently as quoted by Knudsen 'pranaShTa' is correct according to Panini.
Shaatpadaantaat (Pan 8.4.35)
After a 'Sh' final in a pada the 'n' is not changed to 'N'.
nasheH Shaantasya (Pan 8.4.36)
'N' is not the substitue of the verb 'nash' when ending in 'Sh'.
Hence it appears the 'ra-kAraM' rule is overridden here.
Gita texts as stated by Haresh have both 'praNashTaste' and 'pranashTaste';
especially the former in old granthalipi texts. However both Shankara and
Ramanuja in their commentaries use only 'pranashTaste' as do Prof. S.
Radhakrishnan.
Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Haresh Bakshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] "na" / "Na" ?
> namaste, we have gone through the grammar of "na and Na" occurring in the
> middle of a phrase.
> Now, please check the following:
>
> giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some books and
> pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some others. This is causing confusion.
>
> Can someone give the correct reading please?
>
> Regards,
> Haresh.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:28:13 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Apo.aSAnaM or Apo.aSanaM?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Are both acceptable?
aSanaM = food
ApaH + aSanaM = water as food.
Monier-Williams says,
ApozAna = "taking water", or sipping water.
Does aSAnaM mean 'taking food'? How did that come about?
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
haresha-peeyakarayoH na-Na-nirNayavAde etat praxipyate
mayA -
I throw this into the na-Na-decision discussion of the
haresha-peeyakara duo:
pR^ishhTavAn hareshaH
>giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste
dhana~njaya > ...pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some
others.
tadA uktavAn peeyakaraH
>When there is ra-kAraM, na becomes Na as in
>rAmeNa, whereas it is only bAlena.
> So praNAshaste is the correct one.
The choice above is right but the reasoning if not
quite right.
For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
"pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa". The
usual rules (for within a pada) were discussed in a
series of messages between vishvesha and me last
month.
So this form needs an exceptional rule. It relates to
the influences between prefixes and verb-roots.
Nearly all the n-starting verb roots we know are
listed in the dhAtupATha (the standard dictionary of
verb roots) beginning with a "N". For example,
nashhyate comes from "Nash", namati comes from "Nam"
etc. The few exceptions are listed below. The "N"
changes to "n" sometime during the generation of the
final form.
If the verb-root was originally listed as
"N"-beginning, it remains susceptible to the influence
of "r" within the upasarga (prefix). Other
(non-upasarga) prefixes do not have this influence.
Thus pra+namati = praNamati
pra + nashhTAste = praNashhTAste
This influence is the same whether the verb-root is in
"verbal" form or in "samAsa" form.
pra+namati = praNamati (verbal form)
pra + nAmaH = praNAmaH (samAsa between pra+nAmaH)
The few verb roots that are listed in the dhAtupATha
as "n"-beginning are (this is the complete list):
nR^it
nand
nard
nakk
nAT
nAth
nAdh
These verb-roots are immune to the influence of the
"r" in the upasarga prefix.
As you can see, except for the first two, most of
these are very rare. (Depends on what YOU are
reading!)
The examples are also not from everyday reading.
pra+nardati = pranardati
This is a fairly difficult rule. Sometimes words have
the disguise of the upasarga prefix. These "disguised"
prefixes have no effect on "n"-"N" transformation.
For example NI -> nI = to lead
Thus nAyakaH = leader
With the TRUE upasarga pra it changes meaning
pra+nI = to woo
So a wooing suitor is
pra+nAyakaH = praNAyakaH
However, a region which produces excellent leaders can
be described as:
pragatAH nAyakAH asmAt deshAt (Excellent leaders from
this region). Following certain rules, while
describing the region, this becomes
pra+nAyakaH deshaH.
This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might look like
an upasarga prefix, same as above -- but it is not! As
an upasarga, it would have changed the meaning to
"suitor", but as it is, the "leader" sense remains.
So "n" remains unchanged.
pranAyakaH deshaH.
For some students, it is best not to learn such
complicated rules at first study, but to slowly absorb
them with reading, as Haresh-ji is doing par
excellence. And PKR-gazh needs to be congratulated for
his fine ear that chose the correct-sounding
alternative.
dhana.njayaH
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:15:04 -0400
From: "Haresh Bakshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
namaste dhana.njayaji, indeed, this "n" or "N" rule requires to be ruminated
and digested.
In the mean time, another related situation, of my own creation, has been
existing. Please pardon my having to slightly elaborate:
In Indian classical music, the most important note (swara) in a raaga is
called vaadii. [vadati it vaadii.]
The next most important note (swara) in a raaga is called saMvaadii.
The remaining notes occurring in a raaga are called anuvaadii. [anu + vad
etc.]
However, among the anuvaadii notes, one particular anuvaadii note may be
more important than the remaining anuvaadii notes. Since there was no name
given to such an anuvaadii note, I coined a name for it: praanuvaadii. [pra
+ anu + vad etc.]
Now you already know my query: Is it "praanuvadii" or "praaNuvaadii" ?
Thanks for your time, and regards,
Haresh.
>From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 -0700 (PDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mc2-f34.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.41]) by mc2-s6.hotmail.com
>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:00:48 -0700
>Received: from mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu ([155.98.64.200]) by
>mc2-f34.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 19 Sep 2004
>17:00:48 -0700
>Received: from brahma.cs.utah.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by
>mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5B734853;Sun, 19 Sep 2004
>17:59:58 -0600 (MDT)
>Received: from web12605.mail.yahoo.com
>(web12605.mail.yahoo.com[216.136.173.228])by mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu
>(Postfix) with SMTP id 50DC4346EBfor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 19 Sep
>2004 17:59:52 -0600 (MDT)
>Received: from [162.129.196.141] by web12605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;Sun,
>19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 PDT
>X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspFc/1dZM4h1jnioFXcUdD2
>X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
>Precedence: list
>List-Id: Sanskrit <sanskrit.cs.utah.edu>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit>,<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>List-Archive: <http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit>
>List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>List-Subscribe:
><http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit>,<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2004 00:00:48.0275 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[E25C6E30:01C49EA4]
>
>haresha-peeyakarayoH na-Na-nirNayavAde etat praxipyate
>mayA -
>
>I throw this into the na-Na-decision discussion of the
>haresha-peeyakara duo:
>
>pR^ishhTavAn hareshaH
> >giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste
>dhana~njaya > ...pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some
>others.
>
>tadA uktavAn peeyakaraH
> >When there is ra-kAraM, na becomes Na as in
> >rAmeNa, whereas it is only bAlena.
> > So praNAshaste is the correct one.
>
>The choice above is right but the reasoning if not
>quite right.
>
>For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
>"pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
>could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
>usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa". The
>usual rules (for within a pada) were discussed in a
>series of messages between vishvesha and me last
>month.
>
>So this form needs an exceptional rule. It relates to
>the influences between prefixes and verb-roots.
>
>Nearly all the n-starting verb roots we know are
>listed in the dhAtupATha (the standard dictionary of
>verb roots) beginning with a "N". For example,
>nashhyate comes from "Nash", namati comes from "Nam"
>etc. The few exceptions are listed below. The "N"
>changes to "n" sometime during the generation of the
>final form.
>
>If the verb-root was originally listed as
>"N"-beginning, it remains susceptible to the influence
>of "r" within the upasarga (prefix). Other
>(non-upasarga) prefixes do not have this influence.
>Thus pra+namati = praNamati
>pra + nashhTAste = praNashhTAste
>
>This influence is the same whether the verb-root is in
>"verbal" form or in "samAsa" form.
>pra+namati = praNamati (verbal form)
>pra + nAmaH = praNAmaH (samAsa between pra+nAmaH)
>
>The few verb roots that are listed in the dhAtupATha
>as "n"-beginning are (this is the complete list):
>nR^it
>nand
>nard
>nakk
>nAT
>nAth
>nAdh
>These verb-roots are immune to the influence of the
>"r" in the upasarga prefix.
>As you can see, except for the first two, most of
>these are very rare. (Depends on what YOU are
>reading!)
>The examples are also not from everyday reading.
>pra+nardati = pranardati
>
>This is a fairly difficult rule. Sometimes words have
>the disguise of the upasarga prefix. These "disguised"
>prefixes have no effect on "n"-"N" transformation.
>For example NI -> nI = to lead
>Thus nAyakaH = leader
>With the TRUE upasarga pra it changes meaning
>pra+nI = to woo
>So a wooing suitor is
>pra+nAyakaH = praNAyakaH
>
>However, a region which produces excellent leaders can
>be described as:
>pragatAH nAyakAH asmAt deshAt (Excellent leaders from
>this region). Following certain rules, while
>describing the region, this becomes
>pra+nAyakaH deshaH.
>
>This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might look like
>an upasarga prefix, same as above -- but it is not! As
>an upasarga, it would have changed the meaning to
>"suitor", but as it is, the "leader" sense remains.
>
>So "n" remains unchanged.
>
>pranAyakaH deshaH.
>
>For some students, it is best not to learn such
>complicated rules at first study, but to slowly absorb
>them with reading, as Haresh-ji is doing par
>excellence. And PKR-gazh needs to be congratulated for
>his fine ear that chose the correct-sounding
>alternative.
>
>dhana.njayaH
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>_______________________________________________
>sanskrit mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There is no complication in this. Here pra and anu are two prepositions of vaadi.
They do not form one
unit as praaNu. So this rule regarding ra and Na does not apply. Whereas in praaNa,
praaNa is a
single word. Here it cannot be said praana.
Haresh Bakshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
namaste dhana.njayaji, indeed, this "n" or "N" rule requires to be ruminated
and digested.
In the mean time, another related situation, of my own creation, has been
existing. Please pardon my having to slightly elaborate:
In Indian classical music, the most important note (swara) in a raaga is
called vaadii. [vadati it vaadii.]
The next most important note (swara) in a raaga is called saMvaadii.
The remaining notes occurring in a raaga are called anuvaadii. [anu + vad
etc.]
However, among the anuvaadii notes, one particular anuvaadii note may be
more important than the remaining anuvaadii notes. Since there was no name
given to such an anuvaadii note, I coined a name for it: praanuvaadii. [pra
+ anu + vad etc.]
Now you already know my query: Is it "praanuvadii" or "praaNuvaadii" ?
Thanks for your time, and regards,
Haresh.
>From: Jay Vaidya
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Sanskrit] "n" or "N" (complicated rule for verb-roots)
>Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 -0700 (PDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mc2-f34.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.41]) by mc2-s6.hotmail.com
>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:00:48 -0700
>Received: from mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu ([155.98.64.200]) by
>mc2-f34.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sun, 19 Sep 2004
>17:00:48 -0700
>Received: from brahma.cs.utah.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by
>mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5B734853;Sun, 19 Sep 2004
>17:59:58 -0600 (MDT)
>Received: from web12605.mail.yahoo.com
>(web12605.mail.yahoo.com[216.136.173.228])by mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu
>(Postfix) with SMTP id 50DC4346EBfor ; Sun, 19 Sep
>2004 17:59:52 -0600 (MDT)
>Received: from [162.129.196.141] by web12605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;Sun,
>19 Sep 2004 16:59:52 PDT
>X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspFc/1dZM4h1jnioFXcUdD2
>X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
>Precedence: list
>List-Id: Sanskrit
>List-Unsubscribe:
>,
>List-Archive:
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Subscribe:
>,
>Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2004 00:00:48.0275 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[E25C6E30:01C49EA4]
>
>haresha-peeyakarayoH na-Na-nirNayavAde etat praxipyate
>mayA -
>
>I throw this into the na-Na-decision discussion of the
>haresha-peeyakara duo:
>
>pR^ishhTavAn hareshaH
> >giitaa 18:72:4. I have seen praNashhTaste
>dhana~njaya > ...pranashhTaste dhana~njaya | in some
>others.
>
>tadA uktavAn peeyakaraH
> >When there is ra-kAraM, na becomes Na as in
> >rAmeNa, whereas it is only bAlena.
> > So praNAshaste is the correct one.
>
>The choice above is right but the reasoning if not
>quite right.
>
>For grammatical purposes pra+nashhTaaste are two
>"pada"s = "words". So the "r" from the first pada
>could not affect the "n" from the second one by the
>usual rule that gives rise to "N" in "rAmeNa". The
>usual rules (for within a pada) were discussed in a
>series of messages between vishvesha and me last
>month.
>
>So this form needs an exceptional rule. It relates to
>the influences between prefixes and verb-roots.
>
>Nearly all the n-starting verb roots we know are
>listed in the dhAtupATha (the standard dictionary of
>verb roots) beginning with a "N". For example,
>nashhyate comes from "Nash", namati comes from "Nam"
>etc. The few exceptions are listed below. The "N"
>changes to "n" sometime during the generation of the
>final form.
>
>If the verb-root was originally listed as
>"N"-beginning, it remains susceptible to the influence
>of "r" within the upasarga (prefix). Other
>(non-upasarga) prefixes do not have this influence.
>Thus pra+namati = praNamati
>pra + nashhTAste = praNashhTAste
>
>This influence is the same whether the verb-root is in
>"verbal" form or in "samAsa" form.
>pra+namati = praNamati (verbal form)
>pra + nAmaH = praNAmaH (samAsa between pra+nAmaH)
>
>The few verb roots that are listed in the dhAtupATha
>as "n"-beginning are (this is the complete list):
>nR^it
>nand
>nard
>nakk
>nAT
>nAth
>nAdh
>These verb-roots are immune to the influence of the
>"r" in the upasarga prefix.
>As you can see, except for the first two, most of
>these are very rare. (Depends on what YOU are
>reading!)
>The examples are also not from everyday reading.
>pra+nardati = pranardati
>
>This is a fairly difficult rule. Sometimes words have
>the disguise of the upasarga prefix. These "disguised"
>prefixes have no effect on "n"-"N" transformation.
>For example NI -> nI = to lead
>Thus nAyakaH = leader
>With the TRUE upasarga pra it changes meaning
>pra+nI = to woo
>So a wooing suitor is
>pra+nAyakaH = praNAyakaH
>
>However, a region which produces excellent leaders can
>be described as:
>pragatAH nAyakAH asmAt deshAt (Excellent leaders from
>this region). Following certain rules, while
>describing the region, this becomes
>pra+nAyakaH deshaH.
>
>This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might look like
>an upasarga prefix, same as above -- but it is not! As
>an upasarga, it would have changed the meaning to
>"suitor", but as it is, the "leader" sense remains.
>
>So "n" remains unchanged.
>
>pranAyakaH deshaH.
>
>For some students, it is best not to learn such
>complicated rules at first study, but to slowly absorb
>them with reading, as Haresh-ji is doing par
>excellence. And PKR-gazh needs to be congratulated for
>his fine ear that chose the correct-sounding
>alternative.
>
>dhana.njayaH
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>_______________________________________________
>sanskrit mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
_______________________________________________
sanskrit mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit/attachments/20040919/878b30c5/attachment.htm
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
sanskrit mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 27
****************************************
