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Today's Topics:
1. dadAtu <-> dIyatAm etc. (Jay Vaidya)
2. Re: kUta and preSyatAM (Sai)
3. Re: kUta and preSyatAM (Vis Tekumalla)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] dadAtu <-> dIyatAm etc.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
uktavAn sAyI:
> Can somebody enlighten us on how to use verbs in
> this manner - dIyatAm, preShyatAm, kurutAm.
> Is it karmaNi prayoga of karotu etc.?
> In
> jalam AnIyatAm (may water be fetched)
>should jalam be in dvitIyA or prathamA?
I see the confusion here:
In the pairs
dadAtu <-> dIyatAm
preshhyatu <-> preshhyatAm
karotu <-> kurutAm
The first of each pair rhymes with -tu; and the second
rhymes with -tAm
It is correct that the first of each of these is in
parasmai-pada, the second in Atmane-pada.
parasmai- and Atmane- are certain tables to conjugate
verbs. The examples above are all in the loT forms,
which means that they have an imperitive or "strong
request/order" sense. These examples are all third
person singular.
However, it is better not to think of these as pairs.
If at all think of them as possible triads:
(i) dadAtu / dattAm / dIyatAm
(ii) karotu / kurutAm / kriyatAm
(iii) preshhyatu / (nothing) /preshhyatAm
(iv) (nothing) / labhatAm / labhyatAm
In each case, the first two are kartari-prayoga =
approximately "active voice" and the last is
kamaNi-prayoga = "passive voice".
The karmaNi prayoga is always in Atmane-pada. In these
examples, it always rhymes with -tAm, as we can see.
The kartari-prayoga may be optionally in parasmai- or
Atmane- pada forms e.g., (i), (ii); OR only parasmai-
form, e.g., (iii); OR only Atmane- form, e.g., (iv).
Which forms a verb may take in kartari-prayoga are
listed by its dictionary entry.
If there is no option about parasmai- or Atmane-pada,
we use the available form, and do not bother about
further shades of meaning.
If a verb can take both parasmai- or Atmane- kartari
forms, there is a fine difference in the meaning. The
issue is, who gets the real-life advantage from the
action.
If someone other than the doer gets the benefit of the
action the parasmai- (for other) form is used.
If doers of the action themselves get the real-life
benefit, the Atmane- (for oneself) form is used.
Example:
kaTaM karotu devadattaH, yaGYadattArtham tat katam |
Let devadatta make a mat; the mat is for yaGYadatta !
The parasmai-pada is used, because someone other than
devadatta gets the use of the mat.
kaTam kurutAm devadattaH, svArtham-eva tat kaTam |
Let devadatta make a mat; that mat is for himself.
The Atmane-pada is used, because devadatta himself
gets use of the mat.
Salary for labor is not considered "benefit from the
action" -- only the fruit of the action is considered.
for example:
R^itvig yajatu , daxiNA-prApty-artham, puNya-lAbhaH tu
yajamAnasya eva |
The officiant should perform sacrifice; for the sake
of the honorarium, but the host gets the virtue (fruit
of the sacrifice). "yajatu" in parasmai-pada
yajamAnaH yajatAm, sva-puNya-lAbhArtham |
The host should perform sacrifice, for the purpose of
getting virtue for himself. "yajatAm" in Atmane-pada.
NOTE: These shades of meaning are available only if
the dictionary gives you a choice.
patny-artham labhatAm bhixukaH bhixAm |
Let the mendicant get alms for his wife.
sva-artham labhatAm bhixukaH bhixAm |
Let the mendicant get alms for himself.
"labhatAm" is Atmane-pada in both cases, because there
is no choice.
jayatu rAjA sva-kIrty-artham |
Let the king win for his own glory.
jayatu senApatiH rAja-kIrty-artham |
Let the general win for the glory of the king.
"jayatu" is parasmai-pada in both cases, because there
is no choice.
Now to use all three of the set:
karotu / kurutAm / kriyatAm
kartari:
Note shakuntalA: prathamA, mAlAm: dvitIyA
kartari, parasmai-:
shakuntalA karotu mAlAm dushhyantasya svAgata-artham |
Let shakuntala make a garland for the welcome of
dushhyanta.
kartari, Atmane-:
shakuntalA kurutAm mAlAm sva-bhUshhaNa-artham.
Let shakuntalA make a garland, for her own
ornamentation.
karmaNi:
Note: shakuntalayA: tR^itIyA, mAlA: prathamA
Atmane only:
shakuntalayA kriyatAm mAlA, vA dushhyanta-artham, vA
sva-artham |
Let a garland be made by shakuntalA, either for
dushhyanta, or for herself.
To Sai's specific question:
jalam Anayatu sA | 'jalam' is dvitIyA
May she bring water.
jalam AnIyatAM tayA | 'jalam' in prathamA
May water be brought by her.
The prathamA and dvitIyA forms of 'jalam' happen to be
identical.
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:52:26 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] kUta and preSyatAM
To: Vidhyanath Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Vidhyanath Rao uvaacha:
> I find this use of antar really irritating. antar means 'inside'. The
I too don't like 'antar'.
> I don't understand the apparent reluctance to use words that can be
> formed using productive suffixes, even if they do not occur in extant
What do you mean? Can you give an example by suggesting an alternate
sanskrit word for 'sanskrit mailing list' or
'sanskrit discussion group' or the concept we're trying to express?
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] kUta and preSyatAM
To: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Vidhyanath Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just out of curiosity I checked the Cologne Digital Dictionary for the words "kUTa,"
"gaNa," and "varga." Here is the cut & paste.
Entry
kUTa
Meaning
n. the bone of the forehead with its projections or prominences , horn RV. x , 102 , 4
AV. S3Br. AitBr. ; a kind of vessel or implement Kaus3. 16 ; (%{as} , %{am}) m. n. any
prominence or projection (e.g. %{aMsa-k-} , %{akSi-k-} , qq. vv.) ; summit , peak or
summit of a mountain MBh. &c. ; summit , head i.e. the highest , most excellent ,
first BhP. ii , 9 , 19 ; a heap , multitude (e.g. %{abhra-k-} , a multitude of clouds)
MBh. R. BhP. ; part of a plough , ploughshare , body of a plough L. ; an iron mallet
MBh. xvi , 4 , 6 ; a trap for catching deer , concealed weapon (as a dagger in a
wooden case , sword-stick , &c.) R. Pan5cat. ; (%{as} L. ; %{am}) m. n. illusion ,
fraud , trick , untruth , falsehood L. ; a puzzling question , enigma BhP. vi , 5 , 10
and 29 ; m. a kind of hall (= %{maNDapa}) Hcat. ; N. of a particular constellation
VarBr2. xii , 8 and 16 ; a subdivision of Graha-yuddha Su1ryas. ; a mystical N. of the
letter %{kSa} Ra1matUp. ; N. of Agastya (cf. %{kuTaja})
L. ; of
an enemy of Vishn2u R. BhP. x ; (%{as} , %{am}) m. n. uniform substance (as the
etherial element , &c.) L. ; a water-jar Hcar. ; a kind of plant L. ; (%{as} , %{I})
mf. a house , dwelling (cf. %{kuTa} and %{kuTI}) L. ; (%{kUta4}) mf(%{A4})n. not
horned or cornuted (as an animal with incomplete continuations of the bone of the
forehead) AV. xii , 4 , 3 TS. i Ka1t2h. &c. ; false , untrue , deceitful Mn. Ya1jn5.
Katha1s. &c. ; base (as coins) Ya1jn5. ii , 241 ; m. an ox whose horns are broken L. ;
(%{am}) n. counterfeited objects (of a merchant) VarBr2. xiv , 3.
Entry
varga
Meaning
(accented only in Nigh.) m. (fr. %{vRj}) one who excludes or removes or averts
KaushUp. ; (ifc. f. %{A}) a separate division , class , set , multitude of similar
things (animate or inanimate) , group , company , family , party , side (mostly ifc.
e.g. %{catur-} , %{tri-v-} q.v. ; often pl. for sg.) Ka1tyS3r. Pra1t. &c. ; (esp.) any
series or group of words classified together (as %{manuSya-vanas-pati-v-} &c.) , or a
class or series of consonants in the alphabet (seven such classes being given , viz.
%{ka-varga} , `" the class of Guttural letters %{ca-kAra-v-} , or %{ca-v-} , `" the
Palatals "' [924,1] ; %{Ta-v-} `" the Cerebrals "' ; %{ta-v-} `" the Dentals "' ;
%{pa-v-} `" the Labials "' ; %{ya-v-} `" the Semivowels "' ; %{za-v-} `" the Sibilants
"' , and the aspirate h cf. %{varga-dvitIya} and %{-prathama}) Pra1t. VarBr2S. Vop. ;
everything comprehended under any department or head , everything included under a
category , province or sphere of. VarBr2S. ; = %{tri-varga} (q.
v.) BhP.
; a section , chapter , division of a book , (esp.) a subdivision of an Adhya1ya in
the R2ig-veda (which accord. to the mere mechanical division , contains 8 Ashtakas or
64 Adhyi1yas or 2006 Vargas ; cf. %{maNDala}) and a similar subdivision in the
Br2ihad-devata1 ; (in alg.) the square of a number Col. (e.g. %{paJca-v-} , square of
five cf. %{bhinna-v-}) ; = %{bala} , strength Naigh. ii , 9 ; N. of a country Buddh. ;
(%{A}) f. N. of an Apsaras MBh.
Entry
gaNa
Meaning
m. a flock , troop , multitude , number , tribe , series , class (of animate or
inanimate beings) , body of followers or attendants RV. AV. &c. ; troops or classes of
inferior deities (especially certain troops of demi-gods considered as S3iva's
attendants and under the special superintendence of the god Gan2e7s3a ; cf.
%{-devatA}) Mn. Ya1jn5. Lalit. &c. ; a single attendant of S3iva VarBr2S. Katha1s.
Ra1jat. iii , 270 ; N. of Gan2e7s3a W. ; a company , any assemblage or association of
men formed for the attainment of the same aims Mn. Ya1jn5. Hit. ; the 9 assemblies of
R2ishis under the Arhat Maha1-vi1ra Jain. ; a sect in philosophy or religion W. ; a
small body of troops (= 3 Gulmas or 27 chariots and as many elephants , 81 horses ,
and 135 foot) MBh. i , 291 ; a series or group of asterisms or lunar mansions classed
under three heads (that of the gods , that of the men , and that of the Ra1kshasas) W.
; (in arithm.) a number L. ; (in metre) a foot or four instants (cf.
%{-cchandas}) ; (in Gr.) a series of roots or words following the same rule and
called after the first word of the series (e.g. %{ad-Adi} , the g. %{ad} &c. or the
whole series of roots of the 2nd class ; %{gargA7di} , the g. %{garga} &c. or the
series of words commencing with %{garga}) ; a particular group of Sa1mans La1t2y. i ,
6 , 5 VarYogay. viii , 7 ; a kind of perfume L. ; = %{vAc} (i.e. `" a series of verses
"') Naigh. i , 11 ; N. of an author ; (%{A}) f. N. of one of the mothers in Skanda's
retinue MBh. ix , 2645 (cf. %{ahar-} , %{maru4d-} , %{vR4Sa-} , %{sa4-} , %{sapta4-} ,
%{sa4rva-} ; %{deva-} , %{mahA-} , and %{vida-gaNa4}.)
Entry
kUTa
Meaning
n. the bone of the forehead with its projections or prominences , horn RV. x , 102 , 4
AV. S3Br. AitBr. ; a kind of vessel or implement Kaus3. 16 ; (%{as} , %{am}) m. n. any
prominence or projection (e.g. %{aMsa-k-} , %{akSi-k-} , qq. vv.) ; summit , peak or
summit of a mountain MBh. &c. ; summit , head i.e. the highest , most excellent ,
first BhP. ii , 9 , 19 ; a heap , multitude (e.g. %{abhra-k-} , a multitude of clouds)
MBh. R. BhP. ; part of a plough , ploughshare , body of a plough L. ; an iron mallet
MBh. xvi , 4 , 6 ; a trap for catching deer , concealed weapon (as a dagger in a
wooden case , sword-stick , &c.) R. Pan5cat. ; (%{as} L. ; %{am}) m. n. illusion ,
fraud , trick , untruth , falsehood L. ; a puzzling question , enigma BhP. vi , 5 , 10
and 29 ; m. a kind of hall (= %{maNDapa}) Hcat. ; N. of a particular constellation
VarBr2. xii , 8 and 16 ; a subdivision of Graha-yuddha Su1ryas. ; a mystical N. of the
letter %{kSa} Ra1matUp. ; N. of Agastya (cf. %{kuTaja})
L. ; of
an enemy of Vishn2u R. BhP. x ; (%{as} , %{am}) m. n. uniform substance (as the
etherial element , &c.) L. ; a water-jar Hcar. ; a kind of plant L. ; (%{as} , %{I})
mf. a house , dwelling (cf. %{kuTa} and %{kuTI}) L. ; (%{kUta4}) mf(%{A4})n. not
horned or cornuted (as an animal with incomplete continuations of the bone of the
forehead) AV. xii , 4 , 3 TS. i Ka1t2h. &c. ; false , untrue , deceitful Mn. Ya1jn5.
Katha1s. &c. ; base (as coins) Ya1jn5. ii , 241 ; m. an ox whose horns are broken L. ;
(%{am}) n. counterfeited objects (of a merchant) VarBr2. xiv , 3.
Entry
varga
Meaning
(accented only in Nigh.) m. (fr. %{vRj}) one who excludes or removes or averts
KaushUp. ; (ifc. f. %{A}) a separate division , class , set , multitude of similar
things (animate or inanimate) , group , company , family , party , side (mostly ifc.
e.g. %{catur-} , %{tri-v-} q.v. ; often pl. for sg.) Ka1tyS3r. Pra1t. &c. ; (esp.) any
series or group of words classified together (as %{manuSya-vanas-pati-v-} &c.) , or a
class or series of consonants in the alphabet (seven such classes being given , viz.
%{ka-varga} , `" the class of Guttural letters %{ca-kAra-v-} , or %{ca-v-} , `" the
Palatals "' [924,1] ; %{Ta-v-} `" the Cerebrals "' ; %{ta-v-} `" the Dentals "' ;
%{pa-v-} `" the Labials "' ; %{ya-v-} `" the Semivowels "' ; %{za-v-} `" the Sibilants
"' , and the aspirate h cf. %{varga-dvitIya} and %{-prathama}) Pra1t. VarBr2S. Vop. ;
everything comprehended under any department or head , everything included under a
category , province or sphere of. VarBr2S. ; = %{tri-varga} (q.
v.) BhP.
; a section , chapter , division of a book , (esp.) a subdivision of an Adhya1ya in
the R2ig-veda (which accord. to the mere mechanical division , contains 8 Ashtakas or
64 Adhyi1yas or 2006 Vargas ; cf. %{maNDala}) and a similar subdivision in the
Br2ihad-devata1 ; (in alg.) the square of a number Col. (e.g. %{paJca-v-} , square of
five cf. %{bhinna-v-}) ; = %{bala} , strength Naigh. ii , 9 ; N. of a country Buddh. ;
(%{A}) f. N. of an Apsaras MBh.
Entry
gaNa
Meaning
m. a flock , troop , multitude , number , tribe , series , class (of animate or
inanimate beings) , body of followers or attendants RV. AV. &c. ; troops or classes of
inferior deities (especially certain troops of demi-gods considered as S3iva's
attendants and under the special superintendence of the god Gan2e7s3a ; cf.
%{-devatA}) Mn. Ya1jn5. Lalit. &c. ; a single attendant of S3iva VarBr2S. Katha1s.
Ra1jat. iii , 270 ; N. of Gan2e7s3a W. ; a company , any assemblage or association of
men formed for the attainment of the same aims Mn. Ya1jn5. Hit. ; the 9 assemblies of
R2ishis under the Arhat Maha1-vi1ra Jain. ; a sect in philosophy or religion W. ; a
small body of troops (= 3 Gulmas or 27 chariots and as many elephants , 81 horses ,
and 135 foot) MBh. i , 291 ; a series or group of asterisms or lunar mansions classed
under three heads (that of the gods , that of the men , and that of the Ra1kshasas) W.
; (in arithm.) a number L. ; (in metre) a foot or four instants (cf.
%{-cchandas}) ; (in Gr.) a series of roots or words following the same rule and
called after the first word of the series (e.g. %{ad-Adi} , the g. %{ad} &c. or the
whole series of roots of the 2nd class ; %{gargA7di} , the g. %{garga} &c. or the
series of words commencing with %{garga}) ; a particular group of Sa1mans La1t2y. i ,
6 , 5 VarYogay. viii , 7 ; a kind of perfume L. ; = %{vAc} (i.e. `" a series of verses
"') Naigh. i , 11 ; N. of an author ; (%{A}) f. N. of one of the mothers in Skanda's
retinue MBh. ix , 2645 (cf. %{ahar-} , %{maru4d-} , %{vR4Sa-} , %{sa4-} , %{sapta4-} ,
%{sa4rva-} ; %{deva-} , %{mahA-} , and %{vida-gaNa4}.)
Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Vidhyanath Rao uvaacha:
> I find this use of antar really irritating. antar means 'inside'. The
I too don't like 'antar'.
> I don't understand the apparent reluctance to use words that can be
> formed using productive suffixes, even if they do not occur in extant
What do you mean? Can you give an example by suggesting an alternate
sanskrit word for 'sanskrit mailing list' or
'sanskrit discussion group' or the concept we're trying to express?
- Sai.
_______________________________________________
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...Vis Tekumalla
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