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Today's Topics:
1. sa chchhAdakaH (Jay Vaidya)
2. typographical errors (Jay Vaidya)
3. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 22, Issue 13 (V Srini)
4. Re: Question (Ambujam Raman)
5. Re: sa chchhAdakaH (Ambujam Raman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:36:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] sa chchhAdakaH
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Toke,
sa cchAdakaH (Itrans: chchhAdakaH) is correct.
Sai-gaaru,
The textbook examples of this rule are:
(1) Following a short vowel
shiva+chhAyA
=shiva-ch-chhAyA
(2) Following the particles AN^ and mAN^
A + chhAdanam = A-ch-chhAdanam
(3) Following a long vowel, optionally if at the end
of a "pada"
laxmI+chhAyA = laxmI-ch-chhAyA / (optionally)
laxmI-chhAyA
Dear Manfred,
The idea that the application of one rule precludes
the application of other rules is sometimes, but not
generally true. Usually, one uses a chain of rules one
after the other to get to the correct form. To be
fair, your idea is "sometimes" true. There is an
"escape-sequence" of rules that does not allow
re-evaluation of the sandhi (or any grammatical issue)
in terms of previous rules. A jargon-laden explanation
of "sometimes" is given below. Read it if you must.
dhana.njayaH
avaxIt tokeH :
> saH + chAdakaH
> ... the visarga in the
> word saH will drop,
> giving us, at first
>
> sa chAdakaH
> ... will the 'chA' in the above be
> doubled to 'cchA'?
tataH uktaM Manfred-mahodayena:
> When one rule was carried out "Sandhi is over", i.e.
> there is no second rule to apply after the first
> rule was executed.
---
etan- nu kvachid- eva satyam, anyathA na |
ashhTAdhyAyyAM tri-pAdyAM para-sUtrANi pUrva-pUrvatra
a-siddhAni, tat-pariNAma-nimittaH pUrva-sUtra-vyApAro
na shakyaH | sapAda-sapta-adhyAyyaM tu sarvANi sUtrANi
paraspara-siddhAni | "chhe cha | 6.1.73" iti,
"etat-tadoH sulopo-.akor-anaJN-samAse hali | 6.1.132"
iti cha dva- api sUtre sapAda-sapta-adhyAyyaM, ataH
dva- api paraspara-siddhe | vipratishhedhe na
gamyamAne, dva- api upayojitavye |vipratishhedhash-
ched abhavishhyat param kAryam eva aprApsyat |
---
This ("no second rule after first rule") applies only
in some places, not otherwise. Rules from the last
three-quarters of the last chapter of pANini's grammar
are "as-though-unaccomplished" with respect to
previous rules. So any triggering of previous rules by
later rules is not possible. The effects of rules from
the first 7-and-a-quarter chapters, however, are
visible to one another. The two sUtra-s concerned
here, "chhe cha | 6.1.73" and "etat-tadoH
sulopo-.akor-anaJN-samAse hali | 6.1.132" are both in
the first 7-and-a-quarter chapters, hence visible to
each other. Since the two do not contradict each
other, both are applicable. If there were to have been
a contradiction, only the latter rule would have
applied.
dhana.njayaH
P.S. Note an example of "sometimes" in the above
paragraph:
dve + api =
dvay + api =
dva (y-disappears)+ api (!but this is an "escape"
sUtra 8.3.19 -- no reevaluation by earlier rules
allowed!)
WRONG WRONG dvApi (earlier rule) WRONG WRONG
= dva api (correct)
-dhana.njayaH
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:51:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] typographical errors
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In my last message
ashhTAdhyAyyAM (NOT -yyaM)
twice!
I wonder how many more errors can be found if I
re-read the message.
dhana.njayaH
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:59:17 -0800 (PST)
From: V Srini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 22, Issue 13
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Correct form:
(a1) sa + chAdakaH= sa cchAdakaH
Explanation:
(1) "saH": this nominative singular ("he") has two
forms. One is "sa", which is used before all
consonants. The other is "saH", which is used in all
other cases (by external sandhi this "saH" becomes
"sa" before all vowels, except "a").
The "sa" that comes before consonants is not a result
of sandhi, but it is because of the above rule. For
this reason, even though correct, Manfred Lotz's
objection of "repeated application of sandhi rules"
does not apply here.
(2) When a short vowel is followed "ch", the "ch"
becomes "cch". This is the only exceptional case of a
sandhi between a vowel ending and a consonant
beginning. Also, if the vowel is long instead, the
sandhi is optional. In the above case it is a
mandatory sandhi changing chAdakaH to cchAdakaH.
Reference: Michael Coulson's book "Teach Yourself
Sanskrit", pages 33 and 46. 1976 edition.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
> [email protected]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
>
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Question (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
> 2. Re: Question (Sai)
> 3. Re: Question (Manfred Lotz)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:00:18 -0500
> From: Toke Lindegaard Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Sanskrit] Question
> To: sanskrit digest <[email protected]>
> Message-ID:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
> Dear members of the Sanskrit list,
>
> I have a question regarding the combination
>
> saH + chAdakaH
>
> which shows up in a line in a manuscript that I am
> working with.
>
> Now, saH being a special case, the visarga in the
> word saH will drop,
> giving us, at first
>
> sa chAdakaH
>
> My question is this: will the 'chA' in the above be
> doubled to 'cchA'?
> This is normally the case when 'cha,' as here, is
> preceded by a short
> vowel and followed by a long vowel. However, I am
> wondering whether
> the special rule that causes the visarga in 'saH' to
> drop prevents this
> from taking place.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Sincerely,
> Toke
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:43:06 -0700
> From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Question
> To: Toke Lindegaard Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: sanskrit digest <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Can you give an example of the "normal case" where
> cha becomes chha?
> - Sai.
>
> Toke Lindegaard Knudsen uvaacha:
> > Dear members of the Sanskrit list,
> >
> > I have a question regarding the combination
> >
> > saH + chAdakaH
> >
> > which shows up in a line in a manuscript that I am
> working with.
> >
> > Now, saH being a special case, the visarga in the
> word saH will drop,
> > giving us, at first
> >
> > sa chAdakaH
> >
> > My question is this: will the 'chA' in the above
> be doubled to 'cchA'?
> > This is normally the case when 'cha,' as here, is
> preceded by a short
> > vowel and followed by a long vowel. However, I am
> wondering whether
> > the special rule that causes the visarga in 'saH'
> to drop prevents this
> > from taking place.
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Toke
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sanskrit mailing list
> > [email protected]
> >
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:06:52 +0100
> From: Manfred Lotz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Question
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:00:18 -0500
> Toke Lindegaard Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear members of the Sanskrit list,
> >
> > I have a question regarding the combination
> >
> > saH + chAdakaH
> >
> > which shows up in a line in a manuscript that I am
> working with.
> >
> > Now, saH being a special case, the visarga in the
> word saH will drop,
> > giving us, at first
> >
> > sa chAdakaH
> >
>
> When one rule was carried out "Sandhi is over", i.e.
> there is no second rule to apply after the first
> rule was executed.
>
>
>
> --
> Manfred
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
>
> End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 22, Issue 13
> ****************************************
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:29:08 -0500
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Question
To: "sanskrit digest" <[email protected]>, "Toke Lindegaard
Knudsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Please see Mahabharata Bhishmaparva for an example:
sa cchinnadhanvA samare gadAM gurvIM mahAyashAH
drONAya preShayAmAsa.....
.....
(chapter 49, verse 18)
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toke Lindegaard Knudsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "sanskrit digest" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] Question
> Dear members of the Sanskrit list,
>
> I have a question regarding the combination
>
> saH + chAdakaH
>
> which shows up in a line in a manuscript that I am working with.
>
> Now, saH being a special case, the visarga in the word saH will drop,
> giving us, at first
>
> sa chAdakaH
>
> My question is this: will the 'chA' in the above be doubled to 'cchA'?
> This is normally the case when 'cha,' as here, is preceded by a short
> vowel and followed by a long vowel. However, I am wondering whether
> the special rule that causes the visarga in 'saH' to drop prevents this
> from taking place.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Sincerely,
> Toke
>
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:32:48 -0500
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sa chchhAdakaH
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jay:
"etat-tadoH sulopo-.akor-anaJN-samAse hali | 6.1.132"
By the above rule it willbe:
asashchhAdakaH
(It is not he who is concealed)
Am I right?
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:36 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] sa chchhAdakaH
> Dear Toke,
>
> sa cchAdakaH (Itrans: chchhAdakaH) is correct.
>
> Sai-gaaru,
>
> The textbook examples of this rule are:
> (1) Following a short vowel
> shiva+chhAyA
> =shiva-ch-chhAyA
> (2) Following the particles AN^ and mAN^
> A + chhAdanam = A-ch-chhAdanam
> (3) Following a long vowel, optionally if at the end
> of a "pada"
> laxmI+chhAyA = laxmI-ch-chhAyA / (optionally)
> laxmI-chhAyA
>
> Dear Manfred,
> The idea that the application of one rule precludes
> the application of other rules is sometimes, but not
> generally true. Usually, one uses a chain of rules one
> after the other to get to the correct form. To be
> fair, your idea is "sometimes" true. There is an
> "escape-sequence" of rules that does not allow
> re-evaluation of the sandhi (or any grammatical issue)
> in terms of previous rules. A jargon-laden explanation
> of "sometimes" is given below. Read it if you must.
>
> dhana.njayaH
>
> avaxIt tokeH :
>
> > saH + chAdakaH
> > ... the visarga in the
> > word saH will drop,
> > giving us, at first
> >
> > sa chAdakaH
> > ... will the 'chA' in the above be
> > doubled to 'cchA'?
>
>
> tataH uktaM Manfred-mahodayena:
> > When one rule was carried out "Sandhi is over", i.e.
> > there is no second rule to apply after the first
> > rule was executed.
>
> ---
> etan- nu kvachid- eva satyam, anyathA na |
> ashhTAdhyAyyAM tri-pAdyAM para-sUtrANi pUrva-pUrvatra
> a-siddhAni, tat-pariNAma-nimittaH pUrva-sUtra-vyApAro
> na shakyaH | sapAda-sapta-adhyAyyaM tu sarvANi sUtrANi
> paraspara-siddhAni | "chhe cha | 6.1.73" iti,
> "etat-tadoH sulopo-.akor-anaJN-samAse hali | 6.1.132"
> iti cha dva- api sUtre sapAda-sapta-adhyAyyaM, ataH
> dva- api paraspara-siddhe | vipratishhedhe na
> gamyamAne, dva- api upayojitavye |vipratishhedhash-
> ched abhavishhyat param kAryam eva aprApsyat |
> ---
> This ("no second rule after first rule") applies only
> in some places, not otherwise. Rules from the last
> three-quarters of the last chapter of pANini's grammar
> are "as-though-unaccomplished" with respect to
> previous rules. So any triggering of previous rules by
> later rules is not possible. The effects of rules from
> the first 7-and-a-quarter chapters, however, are
> visible to one another. The two sUtra-s concerned
> here, "chhe cha | 6.1.73" and "etat-tadoH
> sulopo-.akor-anaJN-samAse hali | 6.1.132" are both in
> the first 7-and-a-quarter chapters, hence visible to
> each other. Since the two do not contradict each
> other, both are applicable. If there were to have been
> a contradiction, only the latter rule would have
> applied.
>
> dhana.njayaH
>
> P.S. Note an example of "sometimes" in the above
> paragraph:
> dve + api =
> dvay + api =
> dva (y-disappears)+ api (!but this is an "escape"
> sUtra 8.3.19 -- no reevaluation by earlier rules
> allowed!)
> WRONG WRONG dvApi (earlier rule) WRONG WRONG
> = dva api (correct)
> -dhana.njayaH
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 23, Issue 1
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