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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7 (Sai)
2. Re: Saaradaa SaaradAmbhoja ... (Ambujam Raman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:28:54 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7
To: "S.R.A. Aiyar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
What do you want to decipher?
- Sai.
S.R.A. Aiyar uvaacha:
> I am not able to decipher usage of sanskrit digest, would need your guidance
> to source it properly
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
> [email protected]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Re: correct pronunciation: ram Vs. rama (Pratyush)
> 2. Krishna Yajurveda (Ram Avasthi)
> 3. Mallinatha's shlokas (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
> 4. Re: Saaradaa SaaradAmbhoja ... (Sai)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:33:25 +0530
> From: Pratyush
>
> Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] Re: correct pronunciation: ram Vs. rama
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Thanks dhananjay and everybody else for elaborate replies.
>
> Taking it further on the same note, I noticed that Rishi spelt "akArAntaha"
> in "akArAnthaha pumlingaha Rama Shabdaha" with a "th". In hindi speaking
> belt, this will be read as tha as in hAthI (an elephant) or "tha" in
> Thailand. Even the Itrans spells a tha as in hAthI and not as a "t" in
> sa.nskRRita. I have seen the same inclusion of an "h" along with a "t" in
> many south Indian names. A lot of places my name too has to carry an
> additional "h", as prathyush.
>
> I am just curious to know if this is due to absence of some sounds in south
> Indian languages, and what should be the correct transliteration of a word
> like aja.ntA (this is itrans). Apologies if this is going beyond the scope
> of the group.
>
> Thanks,
> -pratyush
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jay Vaidya
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:37 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: correct pronunciation: ram Vs. rama
>
> This adds to but does not contradict the informative
> answer by PKR. Modifies the answer by Rishi Kumar.
>
> Rishi Kumar correctly states that the word 'rAma' ends
> in a vowel, but that vowel is incorrectly identified.
>
> > ... "Rama" shabda ends with an "a as in art".
>
> Most dialects of English (Indian radio/Standard
> British RP/Standard American) pronounce "art" with a
> long open 'a'. This is approximately transcribed on
> this list as 'A' or 'aa'
> The Sanskrit pronunciation of the final vowel of
> 'rAma' is the short closed variety. An example is the
> vowel in the word 'up' in Indian English. In standard
> American and British RP, the sound you are looking for
> is that elusive unstressed vowel, which linguists
> refer to as "schwa". It is the last vowel in the
> British RP or Standard American pronunciation of
> 'matter'.
>
> Since Pratyush appears to speak Hindi, it is possible
> to give exact examples of the pronunciation rather
> than the approximate equivalents in English. The final
> vowel of 'rAma' is also represented as the first and
> third vowels of the word 'banAras' (name of city) in
> Hindi. The second vowel of 'banAras' is the long open
> 'A', which is also the first vowel of the Sanskrit
> 'rAma'.
>
> As PKR says,
> > Only in Hindi the last letter gives up its
> > vowel like a.
> Also maraThi, bAN^lA, gujarAtI, etc. But the 'a'
> deletion rules are not identical to Hindi.
>
> Hindi has its own complex set of rules for the
> deletion of 'a', not only from the end of words, but
> sometimes from within the word. For example:
> . 'kamala' (lotus) is written without halanta, but the
> final 'a' is deleted in speech, not writing, and the
> word is pronounced as 'kamal' in Hindi
> . 'kamalA' (name of woman), the central vowel 'a' is
> deleted in speech, not writing, and the word is
> pronounced as 'kamlA' in Hindi.
> These pronunciations are CORRECT and GRAMMATICAL in
> Hindi.
>
> Therefore Hindi speakers must be careful not to apply
> Hindi pronunciation rules to Sanskrit pronunciation.
> (And Marathi speakers should not use Marathi-specific
> rules, and Telugu/Tamil/Bengali/Punjabi speakers must
> not use rules specific to their language) even though
> the shape of the written word looks similar.
>
> Words with halanta always have an explicitly written
> halanta sign in Sanskrit, when written in scripts of
> brAhmI origin (i.e., all Indian scripts except urdU,
> sindhI, roman). In devanAgarI this sign is an oblique
> line below the letter. Following this convention,
> always give full value to the final 'a' sound in words
> that do not have a marked halanta in brAhmI-origin
> scripts.
>
> This is important. e.g.,
> tama (full value to final 'a') means 'darkness'
> tam (halanta) means 'to him'. (But in Hindi, during
> speech, it can mean 'darkness', based on Hindi
> pronunciation rules.)
>
>
> > That is the same reason that all south indian
> > languages have rama instead of ram.
> Be sure to remember that in some southern languages,
> such as kannaDa, the final vowel is the OPEN, short
> 'a', a sound that does not exist in Sanskrit, where a
> CLOSED, short 'a' sound is used.
>
>
> > It has nothing to do with the influence of
> > English.
> Right on.
>
> Dhananjay
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:53:05 +0530
> From: "Ram Avasthi"
> Subject: [Sanskrit] Krishna Yajurveda
> To:
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear all,
>
> I need to study KRISHNA YAJURVED. Can anyone suggest me where I can get this
> book?
>
> The book should have original sloks and meaning of the same in Hindi or
> Marathi. If someone can give me the place where it is available, it will be
> helpfull to me.
>
> Thanks.
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan"
>
> Subject: [Sanskrit] Mallinatha's shlokas
> To: sanskrit digest
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Mallinatha?s commentary on Raghuvamsa
>
>
>
> On the first sarga.
>
>
>
> maataa pitrubhyaaM jagato
>
> namo vaamardhajaanaye /
>
> sadyo dakSiNadrikpaata-
>
> samkuchadvaamadriSTaye //
>
> Members may post the meaning directly to me by 14th May.
>
> I shall consolidate and post the replies on 16th May.
>
>
>
> P.K.Ramakrishnan
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:02:36 -0600
> From: Sai
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Saaradaa SaaradAmbhoja ...
> To: Ambujam Raman
> Cc: sanskrit digest
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > Ambhoja (ambhaH = water (ocean) jaH = born i.e., moon like vadanA (face)=
> Interesting interpretation of ambhoja as moon, though I didn't hear it
> anywhere else. Do people know other instances of such usage?
>
> If that is correct,
> SaaradAmbhoja-vadana makes a lot of sense, but here Saarada
> is an attribute of ambhoja, not an independent adjective of the Goddess.
>
> It should be
> SaaradAmbhojaH = Sarat-kAlInaH ambhojaH = the moon of the Sarat-kAlaH
> (November) which is undoubtedly the clearest white and the most
> beautiful.
>
> > ( asmaakam sarvadaa sarvadaa = one who gives us all always
> Regarding asmAkam, it is ShaShTii meaning "ours", not chaturthI
> "for us". Then it means "our all-giver".
>
> > sannidhim = sam+ ni+ dhi(reservoir) = auspicious horde of (knowledge)
>
> I think it should be split as "sat + nidhi", not "sam + nidhi".
> Then "sannidhim sannidhim kriyAt" should be really,
> "sannidhim saMnidhim kriyAt"
> ^^ (this is with anusvara)
> The second saMnidhi = sam + ni + dhi = presence, proximity
>
> vadanAmbuje sat-nidhim sarvadA saM-nidhim kriyAt
> = may she keep sat-nidhi always close to the mouth.
> sat-nidheH saM-nidhiH (=sAmIpyaM/presence) sadA vadanAmbuje bhavatu
>
> - Sai.
>
>
> Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> > shaaradA shaaradAmbhojavadanA vadanAmbuje
> > sarvadA sarvadAsmAkam sannidhim sannidhim kriyAt
> >
> > shaaradaa= sharat iva yacchati = one who gives like the autumn season (when
> > fields are ripe and plenty)
> > shaaradAmbhoja-vadanA= shaaradaa ca ambhoja iva vadanaa
> > shaaradA = Sarasvati
> > (sharatkaale puraa yasmaat navamyaaM boditaa suraiH |
> > shaaradaa saa samaakhyaataa...)
> > Ambhoja (ambhaH = water (ocean) jaH = born i.e., moon like vadanA (face)=
> > one who has moon like face
> > vadanAmbuje = vadanaM (udyate anena vad karaNe hence mouth), ambu (water)+
> > ja (born) hence the lotus buds= in the mouth which resemble lotus buds
> > sarvadA = sarvam dadaati iti = one who gives all that is asked
> > sarvadaa= always
> > asmAkam = for us
> > sannidhim = sam+ ni+ dhi(reservoir) = auspicious horde of (knowledge)
> > sannidhim = proximity
> > kriyAt= may (she) bestow (to me)
> >
> > May Goddess Sarasvati who gives plenty like the autumn season, who has
> > (effulgent) face like the moon and who gives us always everything, bestow
> > to me a storehouse of knowledge (to be expressed) in my mouth resembling
> > lotus (by her grace).
> >
> > ( asmaakam sarvadaa sarvadaa = one who gives us all always
> >
> > Hence there is no number (sing/pl) problem).
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7
> ***************************************
>
>
> With Greetings and Best Wishes from
> S.R.A.Aiyar, A_21, 'Vanaprastha' Complex, K N Palayam,
> Coimbatore 641041, Tamil Nadu.
> Phone : (0422) 2404695.
>
> E_mails : [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:22:16 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Saaradaa SaaradAmbhoja ...
To: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
shaaradA shaaradAmbhojavadanA vadanAmbuje
sarvadA sarvadAsmAkam sannidhim sannidhim kriyAt
A Humorous interpretation!
Anvaya
sarvadAsmAkam shaaradA shaaradA bhojavadanA am vadanAmbuje
sarvadA sannidhim sannidhim kriyAt ||
Meaning:
sarvadAsmAkam = asmaakaM sarvadA = our all-giver
shaaradA shaaradA = Hey! Shaaradaa! (vocative)
bhojavadanA = bhoja (bhuj+ac)(one who causes to eat) + vadanA (face)
(vocative case)= Hey! one with a face causing to eat!
am = (avyaya) quickly
vadanAmbuje = in (my) mouth resembling lotus (buds)
sarvadA = always
sannidhim = sat+nidhim (good store (of goodies!)
sannidhim = proximity (make accessible)
kriyAt = may you render
(Note the visargas are optionally left out in the vocatives)
Hey! Shaaradaa, our all-giver! the one with a face that induces one to eat!
May you always render accessible in my mouth resembling lotus buds quickly
the store of fine savouries.
idaM patnIM uvaaca sai mahodayaH ;-)
rAmaH
------------------------------
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