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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Chitra - 3 (Ambujam Raman)
2. Re: Chitra - 3 (Ambujam Raman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:38:17 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
To: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
saigaaru:
unfortunately one cannot expect a mathematical precision in linguistics.
Word formation is a very complicated process though Sanskrit is most
advanced in that respect compared to many other languages. Now let me try to
explain to the best of my ability.
By 'udarasya bhaavaM' what is meanst is 'the property of being like a
stomach' and NOT 'stomach-related'. Vinaanyaka has a 'badly formed
stomach-like form'; not that he has a bad stomach (which will be durudara).
The word 'durodara' should be split as:
'dur + (x) + udara' where the 'x' brings about 'guNa' of the first letter
( u to o) (because of taddhita word formation. For example we derive 'moda'
(happiness) form the dhatu 'mud' using the 'ga~n' pratyayam which requires
guNa of the first letter. Note it is not 'mauda'!
In your example, 'aupachaarika' is derived from 'upachaara' using 'Thak'
pratyayam which requires vriddhi of the first letter. But note that
'aupachaarika' means figurative or metaphorical (see Apte) and NOT
'service-related'! You can get that meaning from 'aupachaaryaka' which will
not be found in the dictionary. We can derive it as follows:
upachaara + ya('Shya~n')= aupachaaryaM (note vriddhi) meaning the abstract
quality of service and 'ka' can be added so as to mean
'service(ness)-related'.
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
>> 'odaraM udarasya bhaavaM'
> Where did this come from? and what does 'udarasya bhAvam' mean?
> If you have upachAra, then 'related to upachAra' becomes 'aupachArika'
> not 'opachArika'. Analogously, 'stomach-related' should be audara, not
> odara.
>
> To me, your explanation still looks contrived.
> - Sai.
>
> Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
>> The word 'udara' is derived from
>> 'ud +^Ri' where the dhatu '^Ri gatipraapaNayoH' means 'to obtain or
>> acquire'. Consequently 'udara' so derived (ud^Ri + ap) from ud^Ri using
>> the
>> 'a' krit pratyayam means something which obtains (materials) from above
>> and by inference acquires the meaning belly or stomach. The taddhita form
>> leads to:
>> 'odaraM udarasya bhaavaM'
>>
>> Hence an unshapely (dur) stomach will be dur+odaram = durodaram and one
>> having such will be durodaraH.
>>
>> Hence Rao gaaru is quite right in interpreting durodaraH as vinaayaka
>> though the derivation of the term had to be justified.
>>
>> Awaiting more of chitrakavi...
>>
>> rAmaH
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Cc: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
>>
>>
>> >How can durodara mean bad tummy?
>> >Shouldn't be durudara?
>> >
>> >J. K. Mohana Rao uvaacha:
>> >>kiM mE durOdarENa prayAtu yadi gaNapatir na tE (a)bhimataH
>> >>kaH pradvEshhTi vinAyakam ahilOkaH kiM na jAnAsi
>> >>
>> >>Parvati: I am not sure why I play dice with you.
>> >>(durOdara means playing dice)
>> >>Shiva: If you do not wish, may gaNapati leave
>> >>(durOdara is interpreted as gaNEsha since he has bad tummy)
>> >>Parvati: (since Shiva speaks about their son gaNEsha)
>> >>Who can hate vinAyaka?
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >sanskrit mailing list
>> >[email protected]
>> >http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>> >
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:28:44 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
To: "Vis Tekumalla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Viz
>From the dhatu 'lamb avasamsrasane' (to hang down) using the 'ac' pratyayam
>(lamb +a) 'lamba' is derived meaning pendent or dangling. By straight sandhi
>(lamba + udara) lambodara meaning pot-bellied is derived and by connotation
>'lambodaraH' denotes vinaayaka. Ordinarily lambodaraH can be used to denote a
>glutton (though outwardly the person may not have a big tummy!).
All these compound words do respect sandhi grammatical rules and they may be
used in their ordinary sense though the special meanings are sanctioned by
tradition!
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: Vis Tekumalla
To: Sai ; Ambujam Raman
Cc: J. K. Mohana Rao ; [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
how does lambodara (for vinaayaka as used in the very first song in malahari
learned by carnatic music students, shree gaNanaatha) fit in? Is it not lamba +
udara that somehow became lambodara (lambodara lakumikara)?
Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 'odaraM udarasya bhaavaM'
Where did this come from? and what does 'udarasya bhAvam' mean?
If you have upachAra, then 'related to upachAra' becomes 'aupachArika'
not 'opachArika'. Analogously, 'stomach-related' should be audara, not
odara.
To me, your explanation still looks contrived.
- Sai.
Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> The word 'udara' is derived from
> 'ud +^Ri' where the dhatu '^Ri gatipraapaNayoH' means 'to obtain or
> acquire'. Consequently 'udara' so derived (ud^Ri + ap) from ud^Ri using
the
> 'a' krit pratyayam means something which obtains (materials) from above
> and by inference acquires the meaning belly or stomach. The taddhita form
> leads to:
> 'odaraM udarasya bhaavaM'
>
> Hence an unshapely (dur) stomach will be dur+odaram = durodaram and one
> having such will be durodaraH.
>
> Hence Rao gaaru is quite right in interpreting durodaraH as vinaayaka
> though the derivation of the term had to be justified.
>
> Awaiting more of chitrakavi...
>
> rAmaH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sai"
> To: "J. K. Mohana Rao"
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Chitra - 3
>
>
> >How can durodara mean bad tummy?
> >Shouldn't be durudara?
> >
> >J. K. Mohana Rao uvaacha:
> >>kiM mE durOdarENa prayAtu yadi gaNapatir na tE (a)bhimataH
> >>kaH pradvEshhTi vinAyakam ahilOkaH kiM na jAnAsi
> >>
> >>Parvati: I am not sure why I play dice with you.
> >>(durOdara means playing dice)
> >>Shiva: If you do not wish, may gaNapati leave
> >>(durOdara is interpreted as gaNEsha since he has bad tummy)
> >>Parvati: (since Shiva speaks about their son gaNEsha)
> >>Who can hate vinAyaka?
> >_______________________________________________
> >sanskrit mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
> >
>
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