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Today's Topics:
1. Re: No disaster, info about shAkalya (Piergiorgio Muzi)
2. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 62, Issue 11 (S. L. Abhyankar)
3. Re: Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8
(Revised) (S. L. Abhyankar)
4. Re: Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8
(Revised) (Vimala Sarma)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 22:53:41 +0200
From: "Piergiorgio Muzi" <glob...@comm2000.it>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] No disaster, info about shAkalya
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <499267843d6e4e1ebeaf91c34369b...@yoursgz3xpngo4>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks, dear Jay, for your detailed and clear information about ??kalya, as
quoted by P?nini. So I checked the matter in P?nini. It is dealt with VIII,
46-52 in a way that you are supposed to understand much better than me (I have
the French edition by Louis Renou, with few lines of interpretation,which I
have found quite obscure).
I have found an interesting summary of this subject in the Sanskrit Grammar of
W.D.Whitney.
At Par. 229, he says: " The first consonant of a group - whether interior, or
initial after a vowel of a preceding word - is by the grammarians either
allowed or required to be doubled. a. This duplication is allowed by P?nini
and required by the Pr?ti??khyas - in both with mention of authorities who deny
it altogether. For certain exceptions, see the Pr?ti??khyas; the meaning of
the whole matter is too obscure to justify the giving of details here."
My comment is that not only is this rule absent in common grammar books, but
its applications, supposing that we don't deal with mistakes, are very rare in
Sanskrit texts. So far I have found only some occurrence of siddhyati (or
compounds) in Upade?as?hasr?.
I have tried to apply the rule, without any restrictions. Here is an example of
the result:
bhagaddgItA, II, 18: anntavannta ime dehA nittyassyokktAH sharIriNaH ; anAshino
'prameyassya tassmAdyuddhyassva bhArata (???)
Have we ever found viddyate for vidyate? or duggdha for dugdha? or bhakkti for
bhakti? or mannyate instead of manyate?..
The problem is not only the fact that we can't understand their grammatical
utility. Maybe they could have been allophones due to dialectical or incorrect
pronunciation, but a normative grammar can't accept them and grammar is not
only descriptive, it must choose the most logically justified forms to avoid
confusion.
About the "disaster" I wrote about, I didn't refer only to the direct
possibility that couples of words which are different only due to simple/double
consonant contrast be identified wrongly. It is possible that, as this "licence
law" refers only to the group-type VCC, admittedly we can' t confuse budha
(Mercury, etc.) with buddha (awaked) or boddhA with bodhA and an enormous
number of other couples, where there is not the required sequence VCC. But when
we have begun to identify siddhyati and sidhyati, how can we prevent from
identifying any other couples of similar structure? besides, could we accept
forms like bhavattyAH instead of bhavatyAH (G.Ab. of bhavatI). I am sure that
few scholars are really available to admit this freedom, if not restricted by
some sub-rules, which I suppose they would be - unluckily - as complicate as
useless. They would bring obscurity and confusion instead of making Sanskrit
text more understandable and the language grammar clearer.
If it is true that P?nini, when correctly interpreted (according to Whitney),
gives us the allowance to use that strange rule, but I believe that it is more
respectful towards its authority not to take too much (dis-)advantage from
that, rather filtering it by means of the analytical tool of logic and general
grammatical principles.
??? ????????? ????? ???????? ??????
Piergiorgio Muzi
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Vaidya
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 11:47 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] No disaster, info about shAkalya
Dear Piergiorgio,
First information regarding shAkalya :
The only information we know about the grammarian shAkalya is that pANini
refers to him respectfully. There is also a shAkalya who performed the
"shAkalya" rescension of the Rgveda, but it is not known whether this is the
same person.
Of shAkalya's grammatical opinions, we only know those in which he differs
from other grammarians:
(1)
sambuddhau shAkalyasya itau anArShe 1.1.16
In non-vedic usage, if a 'o'-sound-ending word is followed by "iti" shAkalya
says that no sandhi happens. Others say that sandhi happens.
bhAno+iti
shAkalya says no sandhi, therefore "bhAno iti" it remains.
All others say "bhAnaviti", because sandhi happens as usual
(2)
iko asavarNe shAkalyasya hrasvaH cha 6.1.127
shAkalya says that whenever i, ii, u, uu, R^i, R^ii, l^i are followed by a
non-homogeneous vowel, they become short, and after that sandhi is prohibited.
example : kumArI + atra
shAkalya says this results in: kumAri atra
All others say that it results : kumAryatra
(For your benefit, in this Monier-Williams and Max Mueller probably go with
the others, not with shAkalya)
(3)
lopaH shAkalyasya 8.3.19
too complicated to explain. The example is:
kaH+Aste
shAkalya says this results in : ka Aste
shAkaTAyana says that this results in : kayAste, where 'y' is very slightly
articulated.
(We have from tradition that pANini was with shAkalya on this one.)
(4)
sarvatra shAkalyasya 8.4.51
This is the denial of all duplications that Max Mueller mentions.
This is all we know about shAkalya's grammatical opinions.
- - -
No disaster.
- - -
The availability of duplications has resulted in no disasters. Duplications
have been used for two thousand years (at least). Is there some disaster that
Indians should have had that they forgot? I do not know what Max Mueller meant
by "no practical object". My guess is that his practical object was to teach
European beginners sanskRta grammar (I can guess as much by the name of book),
and he does not want to make the study difficult for them.
Now regarding duplications :
There is no semantic difference between the duplicated and non-duplicated
options-none of the examples you give have different meanings. Do you know any
words where the duplication results in a different meaning? Can you explain
what morphological problems will result? Is there any problem with alternate
allomorphy?
I don't understand your fear regarding optional forms to students: why does
the student need a clear reason to avoid simplification of doubled consonants?
When are doubled consonants simplified (certainly not in the example of
duplications)? Can you give me an example?
The traditional teaching of sanskRta grammar is descriptive. It only
describes the forms that are available in the speech of "standard" speakers.
In any case, if there are three consonants in a row no more duplications
happen, according to shAkaTAyana.
triprabhRtiShu shAkaTAyanasya 8.4.50
Just because a duplication is described to be "allowed", it does not mean one
will keep duplicating instead of completing the sentence.
It appears that the availability of optional forms is a problem for you. Just
because one has options, one does not keep flipping between options. One
chooses an option and goes ahead. Please check if Max Mueller gives any
optional forms at all. I think he should for something or the other. For
example, consider page 34, section 92 in Max Mueller's book, where he gives
this example:
vAk+shatam = vAkshatam OR vAkchhatam
What semantic or morphological confusion (or disaster) do you think is caused
by having these options? It is fine if a beginner chooses to remember only one,
and use only that one. But could they insist that the other is wrong?
Please read in Max Mueller's introduction (in the same book), that he
maintains pANini's authority as ultimate.Although pANini's logical processes
are complex and sometimes confusing for the beginner, he does not ever refute
pANini. In fact, pANini's logical processes are not confusing for the trained
student. Here is a quotation from Max Mueller's introduction:
> Nothing remained in fact in order to arrive at any satisfactory result but
to collate
> the whole of my grammar with regard not only to the irregular but likewise
to the
> regular forms with Panini and other native grammarians and to supply for
each
> doubtful case and for rules that might seem to differ from those of any of
my
> predecessors a reference to Panini or to other native authorities ...
Note: When he is in doubt regarding his European-Sanskritist predecessors, he
consults pANini and native authorities. It would do us all great benefit to
follow his example: when in doubt make reference to pANini and other native
authorities.
He goes on to say:
> I only regret that I did not give these authoritative references throughout
the whole
> of my work because even where there cannot be any difference of opinion
some of my
> readers might thus have been saved the time and trouble of looking through
Panini to
> find the Sutras that bear on every form of the Sanskrit language
Of course, he expects readers to go to the source - pANini's sUtra; so he
apologizes for not giving full references. Also note: "EVERY FORM of the
Sanskrit language". Obviously there are multiple forms, and they are given in
pANini's sUtra.
I hope you will also follow Max Mueller's expectation for advanced students:
If you have progressed beyond the beginner stage, please consult pANini and the
native authorities. Since there has been no semantic or morphological disaster
so far, let us rest easy that there will not be a disaster just waiting to
happen in the future.
Regards,
Dhananjay
Message: 3
From: "Piergiorgio Muzi" <glob...@comm2000.it>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] siddhyanti - by Max Muller
Dear Jay,
thanks for your right observation. I can check M.M?ller's Sanskrit Grammar.
You have reported correctly the par. 146 of the same book I have.
If we accept this rule without conditions the effects would be disastrous. It
would permit doubling the consonants of an enormous number of Sanskrit words
with correspondent consequences. Not only wouldn't we get any "practical object
in this practice", as M?ller says, but we would be free to substitute pakkta
for pakta, annta for anta, appta for apta and cittra for citra, assya for asya,
attra for atra and even ?ttma for ?tma! Needless to say that this attitude
could create confusion in all the cases where there is a morphological and
semantical difference between simple or double consonants. Indeed this freedom
is not followed by anybody, if not exceptionally. Of course as far as you
consent duplication , the student has no clear reason to avoid simplification
of double consonants...Try to see the consequences, please. I can only agree
about "discontinuing it throughout" in agreement with the criticism of
Sh?kalya, accepted by M?ller. BTW do you know this grammarian?
Regards,
Piergiorgio
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:39:04 -0400
From: "S. L. Abhyankar" <sl.abhyan...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 62, Issue 11
To: murthy...@gmail.com
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
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>
> ????????? ??????-????? !
>
??? ??????S???? ???????????????? ???? ??????? ???????? ? ??? ?????
??????????????? ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ?
???? ????? ????????? ? ???? ?????????? ?
???????? ,
?????????????????? ???????? |
???????? ?????? ????????? ?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: G S S Murthy <murthy...@gmail.com>
> To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:11:50 +0530
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8
> (Revised)
> Dear Sir,
> ???????? is future tense of ??? +? ( It is a verb of second group
> ?????)->???+??????; ???(??? ?? ?) is ?????.
> Sincerely Yours
> GSSMurthy
>
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
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>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:43:34 -0400
From: "S. L. Abhyankar" <sl.abhyan...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson
8 (Revised)
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
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????????? ??????-????? !
??? ??????S???? ???????????????? ???? ??????? ???????? ? ??? ?????
??????????????? ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ?
???? ????? ????????? ? ???? ?????????? ?
???????? ,
?????????????????? ???????? |
???????? ?????? ????????? ?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: G S S Murthy <murthy...@gmail.com>
> To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:11:50 +0530
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8
> (Revised)
> Dear Sir,
> ???????? is future tense of ??? +? ( It is a verb of second group
> ?????)->???+??????; ???(??? ?? ?) is ?????.
> Sincerely Yours
> GSSMurthy
>
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
>> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
>> and follow instructions.
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>>
>
>
> --
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription and email delivery, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
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--
???????? ,
?????????????????? ???????? |
???????? ?????? ????????? ?
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 11:45:50 +1000
From: "Vimala Sarma" <vsa...@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson
8 (Revised)
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
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Dear Abhyankar ?Ji
Again an excellent lesson.
I am adding further thoughts.
jahAra = in Western grammar is the reduplicative perfect tense, 3rd person,
sing. Root means ?take? or ?carry away?. Ha is reduplicated with palatal ja.
The sentence construction with the locatives, is called locative absolutive
construction and is usually translated as ?When something happens, something
else happens?.
Vimala
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Krishnanand Mankikar
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2010 12:59 AM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8
(Revised)
Dear Shri Abhyankar Ji,
Really a great explanation.
I may add that the usage ????? ???????? falls in the pattern of ??? ??????.
Pl check
Mankikar
On 3 June 2010 19:15, S. L. Abhyankar <sl.abhyan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to Mr. P. G. Kulkarni and Mr. Krishnanand Mankikar for their great
inputs, their explanations of "????????" in particular and also other comments.
Accordingly, I have now revised Lesson 8 adding also examples of declensions of
third person singular for verb ?? in different tenses and moods.
Learning Sanskrit by a fresh approach - Lesson 8 (Revised)
Here is an interesting ????????? very onomatopoetically composed. Also it
displays the flight of imagination of the poet. He leaves it to the reader to
draw the moral.
???????????????? ???????? ?????????? ?
??????????????? ???????? ????????? ?
????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ?
?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?
Let us start with our study - phrase by phrase, word by word.
???????????????? = ??????: ????????
??????: = Night
???????? = will pass
???????? ??????????
???????? = will be or will become
?????????? = good morning
??????????????? = ???????? ????????
???????? = one who has splendour; sun ??? + ???
??? = splendour
??? A Suffix which helps to make a derived noun, meaning "having". Here ??? +
??? becomes a derived noun, with meaning "having splendour" One common place
example is the word ??????
???????? = will rise
???????? ?????????
???????? = will smile
?????????
???? = ???? ????? ??? ??????
??? = mud
???? = in mud
? = ????? = is born; grows
? is a sufffix which is used to render a meaning "born of" or "born at" or "is
born"
?????? = that which grows in mud = lotus
????? = glory
????????? = ??????? ?????, ????? ???????? ???? glory of lotus
????? ???????? ?????? ????????
????? = thus
???????? = thinking; ???????? is masculine, seventh case singular of ???????? a
present active participle, derived from the causative of the verb ?? + ???
??????
?????: = ???? ??:, ?????? ???????? ????
???? = into the treasure, into the bosom
??: = gone This is masculine first case singular of the past passive participle
of root verb ???
?????? = having gone into the treasure
????????
???????: = ???? ???? ???? ??, ????????? ???? One who has two wings
???? = two
???? = I struggled with the meaning of ??? One would not find it in a
dictionary. It was very kind of Mr. P. G. Kulkarni and Mr. Krishnanad Mankikar
to explain that ??????? means a black bee. Sanskrit word which can be found in
a dictionary is ?????? As can be seen, this word has two '?'-s in it. ??? means
this '?'-??? ! So, ??????? means "one, who has two '?'-???-s n its name ! Ooph
! Poetry even in coining a new word !
This phrase ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? merits special attention. Three
words ???????? ?????? ???????? are all in seventh case ??????. This style of
composition makes the phrase, a sub-clause. The meaning of these words is not
to be taken by the meaning in seventh case.
As a phrase, the meaning becomes, "(as) the black bee had gone into the bosom
and was thinking.." or "(as) the bee, which had gone into the bosom, was
thinking.."
?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???????
?? ???? ???? = interjection, mostly to express sadness, or meaning "alas !"
?????? = ??????? Second case singular of ????? meaning "lotus", rather "a
full-grown lotus"
?? ??????? = ??: ???????
??: = elephant
??????? = uprooted, This is declension in past tense, third person, singular of
root verb ??? + ?? meaning "to uproot"
The overall meaning becomes -
As the bee, which had gone into the bosom (of a lotus), was thinking...
"..night will pass and good morning will dawn,
sun will rise and glory of (this) lotus will smile.."
Oh God ! an elephant uprooted the lotus !!
Moral ?
Never think that things will work out the way you would like. The bee possibly
thought that it will have all the time of passing of night until sunrise and
opening of the petals of the lotus, all that time, to enjoy the nectar at the
bosom of the lotus to its heart's content. But alas, an elephant came along and
uprooted the lotus itself !!
Man proposes, God disposes !!
Never do over-indulgence; always take risk-factors also into account.
Thanks again to Mr. Kulkarni for adding also an explanation, that "the bee
could have bored its way out. But it was more thoughtful not to hurt the lotus.
Behaviour of the elephant was rough, not so considerate as of the bee."
However, I also read a comment, that the elephant uprooted the lotus to offer
it to Goddess LakShmee !
Uhmmm ...! The poet sets people to start thinking further, right ?
I had another idea also in mind, in taking up this ?????????. In these four
lines we have ????????, ????????, ????????, ????????, ????????, ???, ???????
all verb-forms - either declensions or participles. Even the suffix ? in ????
has a derivation from a verb.
Of these ????????, ????????, ????????, ???????? are all declensions in future
tense, third person, singular of different root verbs ???, ??, ??? + ???, ???
???????? is masculine, seventh case singular of ???????? a present active
participle, derived from the causative of the verb ?? + ???
??? is masculine, seventh case, singular of past passive participle ?? of root
verb ???
??????? is declension in past tense, third person, singular of root verb ??? +
??
Verbs in Sanskrit become a subject of interesting, but very comprehensive
study. It is possibly no exaggeration to say that Sanskrit owes much of its
charm for how one can play around with verbs ! Prominently,
1. A root verb is called as ????
2. Verbs in Sanskrit are of ten classes called as ??
3. Some verbs may belong to more than one ??-s
4. The patterns of declension are of two types, called as ????????? and
?????????
5. When a ???? has declension of both patterns ????????? and ????????? it is
called as ??????
6. Declensions of verbs are influenced by tense or mood, person and number
7. There are ten tenses and moods -
(For ease of understanding given below for each type is third person singular
form of the verb ??)
the tenses are seven
Present Tense ???????? ???
Three types of Past Tense ????
???? called as "Aorist" by grammarians. This is not in common use. Example is
?????
??? (???????? ???????) e.g. ?????
???? (?????????????) e.g. ????
Three types of Future Tense ????????
???? e.g. ????????
???? e.g. ?????
???? e.g. ?????????
and the moods are three
Imperative Mood ???? ???? Imperative mood is for giving an order, e.g. ????
Mood typically indicated by "should" in English ???? ???? e.g. ?????
Mood of benedictions, benevolent wishes and blessings as indicated by "May God
bless you" in English ????? ???? e.g. ??????
8. There are three persons - first person (I, we) second person (you), third
person (he-she-it, they)
9. Numbers are three - singular, dual, plural
In the dictionary, one will usually find a verb identified as follows -
????:
??:
????
????. ??. ??. ??.
?. ??. ??. ??.
1
???
1
?.
??????
??
2
??
1
?.
????
???
3
??? + ???
1
?.
??????-??
??????
4
???
1
?.
????
????
5
?? + ??? (???????)
1
?.
????????
???????
6
??? + ??
1
?.
???????-??
??????
In the above table
?. = ?????????
?. = ??????
????. ??. ??. ??. = ???????? ?????-????????? ???????
?. ??. ??. ??. = ??????-???????????? ??????????? ????????
There are many adjectival and adverbial derivatives obtained from verbs.
1. Past passive participles such as ??
2. Present active participles such as ????????
3. Adjectives obtained from verbs ????????? ?????? by using suffixes ? ???? ????
4. Infinitive obtained by using suffix ????
5. Adverbial derivatives obtained by using suffix ???? e.g. ????? means "upon
going"
In Sanskrit, words are formed
1. by declension of nouns, pronouns and adjectives influenced by gender, case
and number
2. by declension of verbal roots influenced by tense or mood. voice, causative,
person and number
3. by declension of adjectival derivatives obtained from verbs
And there are of course the
4. indeclinables - among them adverbs, conjunctions and interjections
5. adverbial derivatives obtained from verbs, which also are indeclinables.
For doing word-by-word study we can use five structures to present a study of
words of these five types.
For example we can see a presentation of words in this ????????? in the
following manner.
????:
??????? ????:
???????:
??????
???????:
?????
????????:
??????:
??????????
??????
??????.
??????
??.
night
????:
??????? ????:
???????:
??:
????
????????? ?
??????:
???: ?? ????: ??
?????:
?????
????????:
????????
??????????
???
1
?.
?
??????
'????'-?????????:
?????:
??.
will go, will pass
????:
??????? ????:
????????:
??????
???????
In this manner, thus
????:
??????? ????:
???????:
???????:
??:
????
????????? ?
??????:
???: ?? ????: ??
??????
???????:
?????
????????:
????????
?. ?. ??. ??.
????????
?? + ???
1
?.
??? = Yes
??????
???????
??.
??????
??.
when thinking
In the table for ???????? please note ?. ?. ??. ??. = ?????? ????????????????
??????????? ????????
Wow! We already have structures for four of the five types of words in Sanskrit
!
And what a study !
Do not these structures give a very satisfactory and confidant feeling that
"well, the ????????? is really thoroughly understood !" ?
As an exercise, you can compile a study of all the other words !
???????? |
-o-O-o-
???????? ,
?????????????????? ???????? |
???????? ?????? ????????? ?
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 62, Issue 12
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