rave, as I told Consuela, the filmmaker has to respect the film as art, not 
treat it as tittillation. No one remembers ten seconds of "Elektra", including 
Jen Garner. All we remember is that red outfit. Halle and the Catsuit- 'nuff 
said (though I hear several of the male species complaining otherwise). Same 
with "Aeon Flux", though it's just me and Keith bearing the fond memories. 
"Ultraviolet"- was that *really* a movie, or just a long video game with a lost 
joystick?

ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:          Female Superhero movies suffer 
the same fate as black science fiction 
movies (white people don't want to see them and BLACK people don't 
want to see them): men don't want to see them and WOMEN don't want to 
see them. 

"Catwoman" is still the top-grossing female superhero movie ($82 
million) and nobody considers that a success.

Elektra: $56 million

Aeon Flux: $52 million

Ultraviolet: $31 million

Female superhero movies - ain't no money in them.

~(no)rave!

--- In [email protected], "Tracey de Morsella (formerly 
Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Action Or Angst? What Do We Want In Our Superheroes?
> COMMENTARY: Can 'Wonder Woman' succeed purely as action hero?
> 
> By ROBIN BROWNFIELD
> Source: SyFy Portal
> Feb-04-2007
> 
> When Joss Whedon announced almost two years after signing on to 
write 
> and direct a "Wonder Woman" movie that he was no longer attached to 
the 
> project, the air of shock around the Internet was almost palpable.
> 
> Around the same time, David S. Goyer, who wrote the story and co-
wrote 
> the screenplay for "Batman Begins," was told his vision for the 
movie 
> "The Flash" was not what Warner Bros. producers wanted, and the 
movie 
> has been shelved for now.
> 
> The story behind the "Wonder Woman" movie, it seems, is that Warner 
> Bros. has purchased a speculative script from newcomers Matthew 
Jennison 
> and Brent Strickland, and is ready to bring them on board to 
replace Whedon.
> 
> All this leads to the question, "What do people want out of a 
superhero 
> movie? An escapist action romp or fully fleshed-out characters 
facing 
> the most painful decisions of their lives?"
> 
> While it is uncertain what Whedon has done with "Wonder Woman," it 
seems 
> Joel Silver and company want an action-oriented story set against 
the 
> backdrop of World War II -- the time period when Wonder Woman 
comics 
> debuted. Whedon's vision places Princess Diana in the present day. 
Based 
> on his previous works ("Buffy the Vampire 
Slayer," "Angel," "Firefly," 
> "Serenity"), one can safely assume that his Wonder Woman would be a 
> fully fleshed out character, complete with goddess-like strength, 
and 
> human foibles. She would most likely be surrounded by fully 
developed 
> supporting characters, and the story that unwinds would largely 
grow out 
> from and be advanced by the characters themselves.
> 
> We could also count on sharp, engaging dialogue where every word is 
> measured and infused with meaning.
> 
> A synopsis of the Jennison/Strickland script has been posted on the 
> Internet. It is filled with highly charged action, it appears to 
move 
> quickly, and is balanced with sharp contrasts between scenes. It 
looks 
> like it could be exciting, but because there is no dialogue, and 
the 
> focus is strictly on the action in the movie, it makes me fear that 
> there will be little in the way of actual character development. 
There 
> also is no indicator as to whether the two can write dialogue well. 
It's 
> possible that they can, but in the end, what I read is the basis 
for a 
> largely formulaic movie with lots of loud sounds, flashy visuals 
and 
> action. I don’t see the groundwork laid for creating characters 
people 
> in the audience can identify with.
> 
> People need to be able to identify with the characters in a movie. 
They 
> have to be able to feel with the characters and understand why it 
is 
> they do what they do. The X-Men and Spider-Man movies have been the 
best 
> of any in the genre. X-Men movies have been analogous to the 
struggles 
> with racism and homophobia. In both X-Men and Spider-Man, people 
can 
> identify with the characters' perpetually feeling like outsiders. 
Each 
> has unique qualities that allow them to do amazing things, and yet, 
> people in general and/or in their immediate surroundings, rarely, 
if 
> ever, recognize and appreciate this.
> 
> Most real people can identify with this scenario. How many of us 
have 
> proven time and time again that we are unique, intelligent and 
superbly 
> talented people whose accomplishments go largely unnoticed by many 
or 
> most of the people around us? It is the same kind of scenario that 
makes 
> "Buffy" so popular. We now see the same happening with characters 
in the 
> TV show "Heroes."
> 
> It was Peter Parker's angst that drew me to Spider-Man comics as a 
kid. 
> I often skipped over the action parts of the stories just to catch 
what 
> was happening in Peter's world. I still remember Duo Damsel 
heartbroken 
> because she was in love with Superboy, but knew he was destined to 
end 
> up with someone else. Things like that got to me as a child, and 
they 
> still get to me as an adult.
> 
> Wonder Woman often struggled with being a powerful woman who was 
rarely 
> appreciated for it in a man's world. Angst is what makes these 
heroes 
> accessible to an audience. Going through the human experience even 
if 
> one is not quite human, or is super-human, endears these characters 
to us.
> 
> While it's possible to have a hero who doesn't feel like an 
outsider or 
> a freak, how that translates into their personality can be 
problematic. 
> If they are always self-sacrificing, righteous and true, they can 
end up 
> being downright boring. Then again, someone who doesn't suffer 
rarely 
> understands the plight of others who are suffering, and usually 
isn't 
> heroic. Someone like that is likely to come off as arrogant and/or 
> self-obsessed, and uses their power for personal gain. I'm not sure 
I 
> want to know people who are drawn to this kind of "hero." I might 
end up 
> being the next person they get all self-righteous and true on.
> 
> People simply can't identify with an action figure. An action 
figure may 
> present an amusing visual and aural experience, but so does a 
musical 
> mobile hanging over a crib. Both are forgettable once they're out 
of 
> sight. A fully realized human being makes for much longer-lasting 
> "relationship" between the character and the audience than Action 
> Jackson ever can. How many people talk as passionately -- and for 
years 
> on end -- about Lara Croft as they do about Buffy or River Tam?
> 
> Then there is the issue of the setting for the movies. Wonder Woman 
has 
> gone through many eras. She hasn't always been stuck in WWII, as 
> Superman hasn't always been stuck in the 1930s. In the early 1970s, 
> Wonder Woman had been revamped to fit the times. Steve Trevor was 
> killed, she lost her powers, traded in her bathing suit for a 
> mini-dress, and learned martial arts from some old guy named I-
ching. 
> While that probably wasn’t the best version of Wonder Woman, it 
kept her 
> in the present.
> 
> Since then, WW has been reinvented several more times, keeping her 
in 
> the present. All the Superman and Batman movies are in the present 
(or 
> future). Why must Wonder Woman be stuck back in WWII?
> 
> My favorite DC-based movie last year was "V for Vendetta," which 
while 
> it wasn't a superhero movie, was the kind of movie I prefer to 
shell out 
> money to see. I don’t make a whole lot, and I have a lot of kids 
to 
> feed, so I can't often waste money on something that is a purely 
> escapist formula movie. Most of the superhero/graphic novel movies -

> regardless of their origins - are lackluster at best. "Daredevil," 
> "Electra," "Catwoman," "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow," 
and "Sin 
> City" were all substitutes for Sominex.
> 
> Unfortunately, superhero movie producers have grandiose 
expectations, 
> but usually resort to mediocre stories and big special effects or 
> “artful” facades to pass their production off as marketable. 
“Superman 
> Returns,” while somewhat better than previously mentioned movies, 
still 
> suffered the fate of presenting a formulaic plot with some bad 
casting 
> choices (that was NOT Lois Lane), and uneven acting. Hell, Brandon 
Routh 
> barely got to do anything beyond his Christopher Reeve-as-Clark 
Kent 
> impression. While Bryan Singer, Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris 
tried 
> to infuse some humanity and allusions to Supes being Christ-like 
into 
> the story, the actual plot was simply a rehash of old plots with 
Lex 
> Luthor abusing different pieces of real estate.
> 
> There are passably good comic book hero movies out there 
("Hellboy," and 
> even "Fantastic Four" to some extent) that take the action formula 
and 
> make it interesting and entertaining. For far too many, though, the 
> formula starts to become rancid after too long. I had been looking 
> forward to something fresh and different in Joss Whedon's "Wonder 
> Woman." I had hoped it would be the one movie about a female 
superhero 
> that wasn't abysmal. I can still hope for this. Jennison and 
Strickland 
> may turn out to be great writers. Still, I’m not going to put 
much faith 
> in the judgment of movie studio moguls. They have been wrong many 
times 
> before.
> 
> Robin Brownfield is a staff writer for SyFy Portal, writing out of 
New 
> Jersey. She can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>



         


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
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