Please don't misconstrue my muddled musing.  I specifically waited a day to 
respond to your original post because I did not want my post to be construed as 
an attack on you, which it is not.  I primarily wanted to convey my ongoing 
ambivalence about this.

For instance, I created a character some thirty-plus years ago.  I named her 
Akisha Dauphine which literally translates as "beautiful princess."  Ms. 
Dauphine is my femme fatale: 5 feet 10 inches tall, bright-skinned with a mass 
of jet-black hair.  This character is informed by two afro-ed goddesses from my 
youth: Angela Davis and Kathleen Cleaver - two of the "blackest" and lightest 
skinned women you are likely to meet.  But I was informed by their fearlessness 
and their intelligence, in addition to their beauty. 

(Let me interject here that my best friend is a bright-skinned man who looks 
like he and Clark Gable were separated at birth.  He has Adam Clayton Powell, 
Jr. hair and he is the "blackest" man I know. He is militantly, aggressively, 
in your face,"black.") 

Story of my life: I have always been attracted to dark-skinned women but, 
invariably, the darker the woman the more she hated being black (a deal breaker 
for me), the lighter the woman, the "blacker" and more militant she was 
(remember now, I reached my majority in the late sixties and early seventies - 
way back in the last millennium). Long story short, I ended up marrying a 
fair-skinned woman and I am now the father of a seventeen year-old daughter who 
just happens to be five feet, ten inches tall and bright-skinned with a mass of 
jet black hair. 

(By the by, my daughter's favorite expression is "in your face!"  She is a 
"Clue" - the board game - shark and thinks debate is a contact sport).

Creating a character is like fathering a child.  As my World Ebon 
(http://www.theworldebon.blogspot.com)narrative evolved, I realized it might be 
problematic to have "the most beautiful woman in the world" on a planet where 
dark skin and black hair is revered be bright-skinned.  Yet, I couldn't darken 
Akisha's skin any more than I could darken my daughter's skin.  

So I created another character, Ashnan Clythera, who is also a five foot ten 
inch goddess but who is dark as night and has plaits the color of kohl (which 
is black gold on my alternative world).  Ashnan means "the nourishing bread" 
and "Clythera" is another name for Aphrodite.  

But Akisha is a character whose blood lines and plot lines are intricately 
woven into the fabric of my on-going narrative, thirty plus years strong, so 
Ashnan's yang does not balance Akisha's ying and, when I get published, 
somebody is gonna call me on it.

What are you gonna do?

~rave!    

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson <keithbjohn...@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I disagree. We have to look all horses in the mouth, else, how do we grow? 
> It's still an issue if a movie puts forth some images that are positive, 
> crushes other negative ones, yet perpetuates other negative stereotypes. To 
> me, that's like saying that back in the 80s and 90s when black men started 
> making their own movies, we should just be happy to see black male stars, but 
> completely ignore and skip over the appallingly sexist way women were often 
> portrayed. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not condemning the movie at all for this, but I do feel it needs to be 
> addressed. Besides, Daniels himself has straight out acknowledged his own 
> color prejudice in this. Not only does one have to look at this in relation 
> to changing the color of the book's characters, but in light of the fact that 
> a central theme of the book was that the teacher specifically worked with 
> Precious to deal with her skin-color problems. The teacher, therefore, being 
> darker skinned with braids is an extremely relevant point that needs to be 
> addressed. 
> 
> 
> Don't label this as black people just tearing down other black people. I'm 
> the guy who supports every single Tyler Perry movie on opening weekend. I 
> love Daniels' film, and am telling everyone to watch it. To me, this is 
> simply a matter of discussing another aspect of our cultural problems 
> revealed by the movie, and learning from it. It is just as disingenious to 
> ignore those issues in a great work such as this as it would be to dismiss 
> the movie outright because of them. 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kelwyn" <ravena...@...> 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:52:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Skin Color Prejudice in "Precious" Casting? 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this post yesterday but I let my impressions stew for a day because a) 
> I did not have this particular visceral response to the movie - not having 
> read the book, I thought all the casting was spot on perfect (b) the 
> light/dark dichotomy impacted me only vis-a-vis Precious' daydreams (c) 
> although Mariah Carey is bi-racial, I considered her "white" in her role - 
> which takes her outside this argument and because (d) I wrestle with this 
> dilemma in my own work. 
> 
> I want to dismiss Paula Patton's casting as part and parcel of Daniels 
> preference for reusing actors he has used before (MoNique in "Shadowboxer," 
> for example). I actively wondered if Daniels had, in fact, offered this role 
> to Halle Berry ("Monster's Ball")and had given it to Patton as a default. 
> 
> Lenny Kravitz, who is excellent as Nurse John, fits my Mariah Carey argument: 
> he is bi-racial but if you didn't know that you wouldn't know that. To this 
> point, he may be darker than MoNique who is the nominal "black" villain of 
> this piece. 
> 
> But that sort of parsing is where this conversation inevitably leads. 
> 
> "Precious" is such a "gift horse" that I don't think we should be looking in 
> her mouth to see if she has teeth. 
> 
> Then, again, that is what black folks tend to do. 
> 
> ~rave! 
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson <KeithBJohnson@> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "I'm prejudiced against people who are darker than me...When I was young, I 
> > went to a church where the lighter-skinned you were, the closer you sat to 
> > the altar".  --Lee Daniels, director of "Precious". 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > *************************************************************** 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I will drop a review of "Precious" in the next couple of days. Short 
> > answer: I loved the film, though it's difficult to watch at times ( i will 
> > say, due to all the hype, it's not as bad as I'd expected, since I was 
> > prepared for a lot more graphic abuse depicted).  One thing that does 
> > bother me about the film, now that I've heard it mentioned, is that the 
> > good people in it are all light-skinned. Indeed, Paula Patton, Lenny 
> > Kravitz, and Mariah Carey are all biracial. The "bad" people are all dark 
> > skinned.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > It's interesting that director Lee Daniels admits he's had some issues on 
> > the color  line, as noted in the article below. Interesting discussion 
> > on skin colour, that's unfortunately still relevant today, and interesting 
> > that in a film meant to explore the issues we all have, some of the 
> > creative work behind it reveals some of the same problems. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ***************************************************************** 
> > http://racerelations.about.com/b/2009/11/08/what-precious-means-for-race-relations.htm
> >  
> > What "Precious" Means for Race Relations 
> > 
> > Sunday November 8, 2009 
> > 
> > 
> > The film " Precious " premiered in select cities Nov. 6, and reviews are 
> > pouring in about the movie with a Harlem teen whose life transforms through 
> > education. To say that the circumstances of Precious Jones' life are bleak 
> > would be an understatement. Precious is illiterate, living with HIV and has 
> > been victimized by her parents in numerous ways, including sexually. Her 
> > father has twice impregnated her, and one child she's borne by him suffers 
> > from Down syndrome . 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Precious" tackles an array of issues. Because the protagonist is black, 
> > however, both the media and the public have raised questions about its 
> > effect on race relations. I've summed up two major questions about the film 
> > below: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why do white audiences eat up black films and novels that depict 
> > dysfunction, poverty and abuse? 
> > 
> > Why are the villains in "Precious" dark-skinned and the heroes 
> > light-skinned? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Precious" is based on the novel Push by Sapphire. Both the film and the 
> > book have been compared to Alice Walker's The Color Purple and Toni 
> > Morrison's The Bluest Eye in that they, too, garnered praise from white 
> > critics and featured emotional and sexual abuse of black youth by family 
> > members. The fact that these works feature abuse isn't in and of itself a 
> > problem. The problem is how the mainstream receives these works. I have no 
> > problem if viewers and critics regard "Precious" et al. as representations 
> > of particular black families. On the other hand, I do object to viewers and 
> > critics who regard a film like "Precious" as the only authentic black 
> > experience and a television program such as " The Cosby Show " as 
> > inauthentic. The fact is both of these slices of black life are authentic. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I do understand, though, why some members of the black community have 
> > criticized "Precious." Positive images of blacks in the media remain few 
> > and far between. In comedies, blacks are portrayed as buffoonish, 
> > cartoonish and uncouth. Films such as " Norbit ," " Doctor Dolittle " and " 
> > Big Momma's House ," not to mention any Tyler Perry flick, mock black 
> > womanhood. And on the dramatic end, we've had stories of gang warfare, 
> > virulent racism and abusive or absentee parents. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > There's no doubt in my mind that media portrayals of people of color can 
> > lead to racial stereotyping. I'm reminded of a former classmate from a 
> > Mexican-American family from East L.A. Her roommate freshman year was a 
> > Midwesterner who, upon seeing the gang film " Mi Vida Loca ," said that she 
> > didn't realize my classmate had lived such a hard life. My friend laughed 
> > and told her that she had little in common with the "Mi Vida Loca" 
> > characters. 
> > 
> > In the case of "Precious," critics not only fear that the film will lead to 
> > racial stereotyping but that it constitutes "poverty porn." This refers to 
> > films that cater to privileged moviegoers who get off on taking in images 
> > of poor people in desperate situations. After watching such cinema, the 
> > privileged feel like better people just for having seen the film but do 
> > nothing to make change in the world they've witnessed on screen. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In a New York Times Magazine interview , director Lee Daniels confessed 
> > that he worried about screening "Precious" for a European audience. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "To be honest, I was embarrassed to show this movie at Cannes," he said. "I 
> > didn't want to exploit black people. And I wasn't sure I wanted white 
> > French people to see our world." 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > He added, however, that because the world now has a black role model in 
> > Barack Obama , a story such as "Precious" can be shared without fear of 
> > racial backlash. I don't agree with this, considering that Obama is likely 
> > viewed by those in the U.S. and outside of it as the exception rather than 
> > the rule as far as African Americans go. 
> > 
> > I was also eager to hear Daniels discuss how he feels about exposing 
> > audiences to the thread of " colorism " that runs through "Precious." While 
> > the evil characters in the film are dark-skinned, the benevolent characters 
> > are played by actors so light-skinned they're not easily identifiable as 
> > black. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "I'm prejudiced against people who are darker than me," Daniels remarked in 
> > New York Times Magazine . "When I was young, I went to a church where the 
> > lighter-skinned you were, the closer you sat to the altar. Anybody that's 
> > heavy like Precious -- I thought they were dirty and not very smart. Making 
> > this movie changed my heart. I'll never look at a fat girl walking down the 
> > street the same way again." 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I'm glad that Lee's prejudice dissipated during the course of making 
> > "Precious," but that doesn't change the harmful message sent by the 
> > colorism in his film. In the book "Precious" is based on, a dark-skinned 
> > teacher with natural hair changes Precious' perceptions of dark skin from 
> > negative to positive. This powerful transformation is lacking in the film 
> > because a fair-skinned actress was cast to play Precious' teacher. If 
> > Daniels really did become less prejudiced about size and color while making 
> > "Precious," hopefully his next project will feature dark-skinned blacks of 
> > strong character rather than violent, exploitative brutes with dark skin. 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> >
>


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