Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com http://www.plowsharesmaine.com/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
[apple-crop] Migrant Potato Leafhopper control
This past season I had continued re-infestation of potato leafhopper in young unbudded apple rootstock nursery. Calypso provided control, but only until the next population floated in on air currents, presumably from somewhere far south of here (Connecticut). My question is: Are these migrant populations subject to resistance development in the same way that local resident insect populations are? Evidently they are not resistant when they arrive, but to remain within label limits of product per season, other neonicotinoid products might be used to provide continued control. Is anyone aware of resistance having developed in this pest to neonicotinoids or other pesticides where the pest does not survive to pass on its resistance to the next generation? Does potato leafhopper migrate within, say, New England states, or within other Northern apple-growing regions during a growing season? If so, resistance might become a problem regardless of the pest's overwintering ability. David Kollas Kollas Orchard, CT ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Migrant Potato Leafhopper control
Here in Central Virginia this year we rotated Calypso with Carbaryl as populations settled in to our blocks. It worked great. On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM, David Kollas kol...@sbcglobal.net wrote: This past season I had continued re-infestation of potato leafhopper in young unbudded apple rootstock nursery. Calypso provided control, but only until the next population floated in on air currents, presumably from somewhere far south of here (Connecticut). My question is: Are these migrant populations subject to resistance development in the same way that local resident insect populations are? Evidently they are not resistant when they arrive, but to remain within label limits of product per season, other neonicotinoid products might be used to provide continued control. Is anyone aware of resistance having developed in this pest to neonicotinoids or other pesticides where the pest does not survive to pass on its resistance to the next generation? Does potato leafhopper migrate within, say, New England states, or within other Northern apple-growing regions during a growing season? If so, resistance might become a problem regardless of the pest's overwintering ability. David Kollas Kollas Orchard, CT ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Interstems do make for a more expensive tree. Wasn't the thinking always to use interstems for a free standing, supported early years, well anchored but smaller tree? On Nov 22, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Hugh Thomas wrote: Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Up here in the Northland (Nova Scotia) most of the interstem plantings fell into the Gee that sounded like a good idea, now how long can I bear to look at this mess before I pull it out? The root suckers were phenomenal on the M9/MM111's to the point where they grew faster than you could cut them. And next year a fresh batch arose from the stubs. Free standing trees are way overrated anyway. The labour to cut suckers and deal with trees with weak tops is soon equal to the cost of a trellis anyway! But to each his own. As far a relying on renewal pruning with no permanent branches in Honeycrisp - you better have a very strong under stock. We can't do it with m26 here because Honeycrisp just will not throw a lot of new branches once it begins to fruit. We do a lot more spur pruning than renewal pruning on bearing Honeycrisp. Big cuts seldom produce the desired results for us, but we are a low vigour area. Regards, Larry Lutz Sent from my iPhone On 2013-11-22, at 5:06 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: Interstems do make for a more expensive tree. Wasn't the thinking always to use interstems for a free standing, supported early years, well anchored but smaller tree? On Nov 22, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Hugh Thomas wrote: Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Hugh, What Art said, plus the idea that interstems should to provide a ultimately similar orchard result as with Tall Spindle or other high density plantings, with somewhat less cost per acre due to less support needed and fewer trees per acre; also, the hope is to achieve longer tree life than with straight dwarf rootstocks. I have a few sloped and curving fields that don't lend themselves to post-and-wire, so I am looking for early bearing, high density alternatives. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:24 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com http://www.plowsharesmaine.com/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Makes sense to me now. I've read that Bud 118 doesn't need support. A question I've always had is, Why is it important to not cut the leader? Seems like an idea situation to me would be to plant high density with root stocks that are self supporting and cut the top out every year to two to control the height of the trees. Another thought is that the dwarf trees are really large trees, in my mind - 10+ feet. Seems like a super dwarf that gets to about 7 feet would be idea, planted a foot apart - wild thoughts... On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Hugh, What Art said, plus the idea that interstems should to provide a ultimately similar orchard result as with Tall Spindle or other high density plantings, with somewhat less cost per acre due to less support needed and fewer trees per acre; also, the hope is to achieve longer tree life than with straight dwarf rootstocks. I have a few sloped and curving fields that don’t lend themselves to post-and-wire, so I am looking for early bearing, high density alternatives. Steven Bibula *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2013 1:24 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Rich Everett Everett Family Farm Fine Organics From Seed to Core reofar...@gmail.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
