Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting?
Nomarski microscopy, Ed. Differential phase contrast microscopy. Makes very small height differences (partial wavelength) on mostly planar objects pop out, and creates amazing color effects as a biproduct. Pretty much a stalwart of any good cleanroom microscope. Every manufacturer offers it, usually a pretty expensive option as all your optics have to be stress-free. I dream to own one of these one day. Marc From: cctalk on behalf of "cctalk@classiccmp.org" Reply-To: "couryho...@aol.com" , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" Date: Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM To: "couryho...@aol.com" , , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" Subject: Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting? should say Francion Yamamotto not Yrancion Yamamotto In a message dated 5/20/2019 10:07:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, couryho...@aol.com writes: Since we have nice microscopes at the museum project we were hired to photo some IC innards years back. This ended up becoming a minor obsession for a short time as the artwork under various illuminations is fantastic. One of the things that seemed to show the mots difference in detail between layers and highs etc... was differential interference contrast (after nomorski (sp?) ( this was on our Ziess Ultraphot and seems to be a Zeiss onlyoffering.0 on the Japanese side of things Nikon had Yrancion Yamamotto (sp?) method which seems nicebut I preferred the Nomeriski. Using these methods you may be able to extract more usable detail than with traditional methods. and wow the color photos are frame-able! But kinda what I wanted to mention to is depending on what era the chips were the over coatingsseemed to worsen the view the newer the chip or so I thought at the time. Such great fun to photo the little ic innards! even a standard illum. scope with the vertical episcopic illumination gives some fun photos too, especially on the earlier chips. Don't know if any of this will help on the HP-01 roms but sure was fun to talk about again ed sharpe archivist for smecc In a message dated 5/20/2019 9:00:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, space...@gmail.com writes: Only just within the last month I finally obtained a ROM dump from a production HP-01, for potential use in my Nonpareil simulator. Previously I only had the preproduction code listed in a US patent. I'm not sure when I'll have time to actually work on the simulation, though. My original plan had been to crack open an HP-01 module and try to read the ROM bits optically, as Peter Monta did for the HP-35. However, that didn't work, probably due to a passivation coating on the ROM dies.
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
Fantastic. It fell into the right hands. Marc And so the story continues https://ibms360.co.uk/
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 06.04.19 16:04, jos via cctalk wrote: The seller clearly has no idea, but the starting price is right ! https://www.ebay.de/itm/seltene-Anlage-Puma-Computer-IBM-2020/202646831828?hash=item2f2eb142d4:g:izoAAOSwhV1cpw Jos And so the story continues https://ibms360.co.uk/
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
On 2019-May-19, at 9:09 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 8:05 PM Mister PDP via cctalk > wrote: >> >> After that, I decided to try and find out why the >> Run/Halt light was not coming on when I hit the switch. Looking at the H11 >> schematics, the light relies on the SRUN signal coming off of the >> backplane. The problem I am currently facing is I cannot find where the CPU >> board generates the SRUN signal. If anyone who is more experienced that me >> knows how the M7264 generates the SRUN signal, that would be wonderful. > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1103/1103_Schematics.pdf > > Page 27 of the PDF, LSI-11 CPU MODULE (K8) schematic > Grid position B1, the SRUN L signal is driven on to the backplane bus line > AF1. > > I have no idea how the logic works on the M7264 module that drives that > signal. It looks like the CPU chipset is putting a binary 'state action code' onto the WMIB 18-21 lines (sources on page K2) during clock phase 3 (PH 3 H at gate E45.10). The action code is decoded to 1 of 8 actions by E68. Most of the states are latched by the subsequent flip-flops, and those states are cleared or set by the action codes. Except the SRUN (K8 SRUN L) action is not latched, so it probably appears as an active-low heartbeat pulse with some periodicity when the processor is in run mode. A low-going pulse during PH 3 every instruction cycle perhaps.
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 11:48 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > > Except the SRUN (K8 SRUN L) action is not latched, so it probably appears as > an > active-low heartbeat pulse with some periodicity when the processor is in run > mode. > A low-going pulse during PH 3 every instruction cycle perhaps. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1103/1103_Schematics.pdf Page 171 of the PDF, Lights & Switches Board schematic The SRUN L signal (routed from the backplane through the power supply) is fed through a 74123 retriggerable monostable multivibrator one-shot before driving the RUN LED. If the SRUN signal is a pulsing, the LED might effectively be driven constantly on. I don't have the H11 schematic. It's front panel might have similar logic driving the RUN LED.
VT420 terminal screen
I have a DEC VT420 terminal which works pretty well. However, I am concerned that sometimes the characters on the screen seem to get torn sideways and jump around a little on a timescale of less than one second. My guess is that there is some issue with the power supply, but that is just a guess. Does anyone have any experience of this and know what I should look at in order to fix it. If it never gets worse, I can live with it, but I fear that one day it will just die. Cheers Peter Allan
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
Alright, I hooked the oscilloscope up to SRUN off of E68, and found that it oscillates low at 58.68KHz. This oscillation is very short lived, with it bouncing back up to high nearly instantly. Hitting the Run/Halt switch does not have any effect on the period or amplitude of the oscillation. On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 3:05 AM Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2019-May-20, at 12:11 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 11:48 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk > > wrote: > >> > >> Except the SRUN (K8 SRUN L) action is not latched, so it probably > appears as an > >> active-low heartbeat pulse with some periodicity when the processor is > in run mode. > >> A low-going pulse during PH 3 every instruction cycle perhaps. > > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1103/1103_Schematics.pdf > > > > Page 171 of the PDF, Lights & Switches Board schematic > > > > The SRUN L signal (routed from the backplane through the power supply) > > is fed through a 74123 retriggerable monostable multivibrator > > one-shot before driving the RUN LED. If the SRUN signal is a pulsing, > > the LED might effectively be driven constantly on. > > > > I don't have the H11 schematic. It's front panel might have similar > > logic driving the RUN LED. > > > Good, that makes sense together, as the duty cycle could be expected to be > too low to light the LED driven directly. > > TTL monostables weren't the most reliable components. > >
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
On 2019-May-20, at 12:11 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 11:48 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Except the SRUN (K8 SRUN L) action is not latched, so it probably appears as >> an >> active-low heartbeat pulse with some periodicity when the processor is in >> run mode. >> A low-going pulse during PH 3 every instruction cycle perhaps. > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1103/1103_Schematics.pdf > > Page 171 of the PDF, Lights & Switches Board schematic > > The SRUN L signal (routed from the backplane through the power supply) > is fed through a 74123 retriggerable monostable multivibrator > one-shot before driving the RUN LED. If the SRUN signal is a pulsing, > the LED might effectively be driven constantly on. > > I don't have the H11 schematic. It's front panel might have similar > logic driving the RUN LED. Good, that makes sense together, as the duty cycle could be expected to be too low to light the LED driven directly. TTL monostables weren't the most reliable components.
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
> From: Jos Dreesen > And so the story continues > https://ibms360.co.uk/ Wow, what a great recover, and a great site documenting it! Renting temporary local storage was a great idea; it would have been hard to get all that out of there on schedule any other way. (Alas, I don't know any hauliers who can help them get it all back to the UK!) They should have tried to get the raised floor too (I guess it wasn't included in the sale), since i) it'll be useful if they try and get the machine up and running, and ii) it'll probably just get scrapped. Although there may already be raised floor where they're planning to put it. Noel
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
The model 20 installations that I played with were mostly to supplant unit-record gear, which typically did not use a raised floor configuration. Mostly the CPU, card mulcher, printer and perhaps a 2311. The installation auctioned off is one of the larger Model 20 setups that I've seen. --Chuck
Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting?
Since we have nice microscopes at the museum project we were hired to photo some IC innards years back. This ended up becoming a minor obsession for a short time as the artwork under various illuminations is fantastic. One of the things that seemed to show the mots difference in detail between layers and highs etc... was differential interference contrast (after nomorski (sp?) ( this was on our Ziess Ultraphot and seems to be a Zeiss only offering.0 on the Japanese side of things Nikon had Yrancion Yamamotto (sp?) method which seems nice but I preferred the Nomeriski. Using these methods you may be able to extract more usable detail than with traditional methods. and wow the color photos are frame-able! But kinda what I wanted to mention to is depending on what era the chips were the over coatings seemed to worsen the view the newer the chip or so I thought at the time. Such great fun to photo the little ic innards! even a standard illum. scope with the vertical episcopic illumination gives some fun photos too, especially on the earlier chips. Don't know if any of this will help on the HP-01 roms but sure was fun to talk about again ed sharpe archivist for smecc In a message dated 5/20/2019 9:00:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, space...@gmail.com writes: Only just within the last month I finally obtained a ROM dump from a production HP-01, for potential use in my Nonpareil simulator. Previously I only had the preproduction code listed in a US patent. I'm not sure when I'll have time to actually work on the simulation, though. My original plan had been to crack open an HP-01 module and try to read the ROM bits optically, as Peter Monta did for the HP-35. However, that didn't work, probably due to a passivation coating on the ROM dies.
Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting?
should say Francion Yamamotto not Yrancion Yamamotto In a message dated 5/20/2019 10:07:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, couryho...@aol.com writes: Since we have nice microscopes at the museum project we were hired to photo some IC innards years back. This ended up becoming a minor obsession for a short time as the artwork under various illuminations is fantastic. One of the things that seemed to show the mots difference in detail between layers and highs etc... was differential interference contrast (after nomorski (sp?) ( this was on our Ziess Ultraphot and seems to be a Zeiss only offering.0 on the Japanese side of things Nikon had Yrancion Yamamotto (sp?) method which seems nice but I preferred the Nomeriski. Using these methods you may be able to extract more usable detail than with traditional methods. and wow the color photos are frame-able! But kinda what I wanted to mention to is depending on what era the chips were the over coatings seemed to worsen the view the newer the chip or so I thought at the time. Such great fun to photo the little ic innards! even a standard illum. scope with the vertical episcopic illumination gives some fun photos too, especially on the earlier chips. Don't know if any of this will help on the HP-01 roms but sure was fun to talk about again ed sharpe archivist for smecc In a message dated 5/20/2019 9:00:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, space...@gmail.com writes: Only just within the last month I finally obtained a ROM dump from a production HP-01, for potential use in my Nonpareil simulator. Previously I only had the preproduction code listed in a US patent. I'm not sure when I'll have time to actually work on the simulation, though. My original plan had been to crack open an HP-01 module and try to read the ROM bits optically, as Peter Monta did for the HP-35. However, that didn't work, probably due to a passivation coating on the ROM dies.
Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting?
Only just within the last month I finally obtained a ROM dump from a production HP-01, for potential use in my Nonpareil simulator. Previously I only had the preproduction code listed in a US patent. I'm not sure when I'll have time to actually work on the simulation, though. My original plan had been to crack open an HP-01 module and try to read the ROM bits optically, as Peter Monta did for the HP-35. However, that didn't work, probably due to a passivation coating on the ROM dies.
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 12:11 PM William Donzelli wrote: > > I guess it would look right for the era, but I'd never build a data > center > > with raised flooring after my experiences with them. It's such a pain to > > work with compared to a sealed concrete floor and overhead cable trays. > > But with a raised floor, you can whack the tile puller down in such a > way that it makes an enormously loud pop that startles everyone in the > datacenter! > > A good data center is loud enough that no one can hear that. :) > I cannot imagine difficult it would be to run S/360 era cables in > overhead trays. Many are an inch or more in diameter. > I've run lots of (heavy) 6/4 SOOW power cord on overhead cable trays, and it is a pain, but it's way easier than pulling up half of the tiles in a data center to figure out where the cable you're trying to pull is tangled, just to find it stuck barely out of reach under the middle of some production equipment. An acceptable compromise is something like the 6 ft raised floor they have over at NCSA. But the typical 12" raised floors I've had to deal with are... unpleasant. Pat
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
anyone figured out what these were being used for in that building? On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:11 AM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I guess it would look right for the era, but I'd never build a data > center > > with raised flooring after my experiences with them. It's such a pain to > > work with compared to a sealed concrete floor and overhead cable trays. > > But with a raised floor, you can whack the tile puller down in such a > way that it makes an enormously loud pop that startles everyone in the > datacenter! > > I cannot imagine difficult it would be to run S/360 era cables in > overhead trays. Many are an inch or more in diameter. > > -- > Will > > -- > Will >
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 10:39 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > They should have tried to get the raised floor too (I guess it wasn't > included in the sale), since i) it'll be useful if they try and get the > machine up and running, and ii) it'll probably just get scrapped. Although > there may already be raised floor where they're planning to put it. > I guess it would look right for the era, but I'd never build a data center with raised flooring after my experiences with them. It's such a pain to work with compared to a sealed concrete floor and overhead cable trays. That said, I'd bet you can pick up raised flooring cheaply locally if you find someone who works on commercial buildings. For that era, it's either going to be wood or concrete core, and will cost more to get rid of than it has in scrap value (between the dumpster rental and the injured backs moving it). Pat
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
> I guess it would look right for the era, but I'd never build a data center > with raised flooring after my experiences with them. It's such a pain to > work with compared to a sealed concrete floor and overhead cable trays. But with a raised floor, you can whack the tile puller down in such a way that it makes an enormously loud pop that startles everyone in the datacenter! I cannot imagine difficult it would be to run S/360 era cables in overhead trays. Many are an inch or more in diameter. -- Will -- Will
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
> From: Mister PDP > After a day of confusing and mixed up signals (I don't really use > this type of equipment very often) .. I switched over to the > oscilloscope Don't feel bad, I too prefer to rely on an oscilloscope by default; not only does it let you see what's really happening (intermediate voltages, noise, etc) but it's simpler, and there are less ways to get incorrent info. > to confirm that the four clock signals on the MCP-1600 chipset were > working properly .. and was able to see that the very basics of the > CPU were working. It's not necessarily good if the 4 clocks (I take it that's what the latter refers to) are working, because if one or more of those were broken, it's a relatively easy/simple fix, whereas if they are working, and the CPU's still not running, it could be a failed CPU chip, and the only fix there is to replace it. > the SRUN signal coming off of the backplane. Note that SRUN isn't crucial to the machine's operation, it's just user info. If SRUN is somehow broken on it's own (i.e. failed component somewhere between where the CPU generates it, and the display LED) finding and fixing that issue won't help. Far more useful, in terms of getting the thing running, would be to know if BSYNC on the QBUS is hopping around (as ODT tries to talk to the console - an easy thing to check into, too). If not, that's a show-stopper that needs to be looked into. > From: Glen Slick > the SRUN L signal is driven on to the backplane bus line AF1. The '78-'78 "microcomputer processors" says (pg. 3-15) that on the LSI-11 it's also on CH1; just to complete the complexity, it also says (pg. 3-32) that on the LSI-11/2 it's also on AH1! > From: Mister PDP > I hooked the oscilloscope up to SRUN off of E68, and found that it > oscillates low at 58.68KHz. .. Hitting the Run/Halt switch does not > have any effect on the period or amplitude of the oscillation. So maybe the CPU is actually running after all? Although turning RUN/HALT to 'HALT' should stop it - the Run light would I think go out when ODT is running. (It certainly does on the /23.) Can you check that BHALT on the QBUS is actually asserted (i.e. 0V) when the switch is in HALT? Noel
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 20/05/2019 18:42, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: The model 20 installations that I played with were mostly to supplant unit-record gear, which typically did not use a raised floor configuration. Mostly the CPU, card mulcher, printer and perhaps a 2311. The installation auctioned off is one of the larger Model 20 setups that I've seen. --Chuck As Adam isn't on the list, and I am one of those in that photograph... There was one 360/20 (pink) that was cabled up with 2 x 2311 disk, 2 x 2415 tape, 2560 MFCM and (I think) the 1403 printer. That system appears to have been in use at that site. The second 360/20 (blue) was not cabled to anything, and the 370/125 (yellow) likewise. So I expect neither of those was used at all. It can't have been a serious commercial installation, but maybe it was a keen hobbyist who acquired the systems and decided to keep them running, or perhaps used as a training tool. It apparently hasn't been used for 30+ years. The "raised floor" was in a sorry state, the heavy units had sunk into the soft wood panels. I guess the framing might have been useful. It was good that all the punch cards required seem to be there and in good condition: the Control Program (microcode) cards for the /20, RPG, BAL etc. These need to be read - I know there are services that will process scans, but is there anywhere (UK/Europe) that can take the physical cards and give us back files? The guys did a wonderful job, especially on that last day when they managed to move most of the units and clear everything out. As mentioned, the /20 CPUs and 2415 master unit were 500-600kg each and about the limit of the tail-lift. If anything I've written here is contradicted by anything in the blog, believe the blog! https://ibms360.co.uk -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawre...@ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
try crawling under them On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:03 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 5/20/19 10:40 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > An acceptable compromise is something like the 6 ft raised floor they > > have over at NCSA. > > I've often wondered why more people don't do raised floors high enough > to walk under. > > I guess they are trying to put it in one room and not have two separated > room stacked. > > There's also the fact that having an open tile on a 6' (or taller) > raised floor is considerably more dangerous than something much shorter. > > > But the typical 12" raised floors I've had to deal with are... > unpleasant. > > I'm used to 2' (24") raised floors. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die >
OT: (was: Re: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand?)
> On May 20, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk > wrote: > >> Subject: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand? >> From: Patrick Finnegan > >> I'm going to be in Australia and then New Zealand for most of June, and was >> wondering if there was anything interesting classic computer wise to visit? >> I'm planning on being in Sydney for the Australia half of the trip, and >> haven't made many plans for New Zealand yet besides flying in/out of >> Auckland. > >> Pat > > > > At 10:38 PM 20/05/2019 +0100, Rob wrote: >> Lookup Max Burnet in Sydney, well worth a visit. > > > ...The state of classic computers perservation in Australia in general is > pretty sad. Very little in the way of organised exhibition spaces. Mostly > it's just motivated individuals, doing what they can with shoestrings and a > spare room or two ... > Otoh if you're interested in sightseeing, I can make you a list. Around the > city and out in the countryside. > Do you enjoy outdoors and walking? I can take you on a very nice day walk (or > a few) near the city. Or further out. > Also if you are adventurous I can organise some unconventional urbex > experiences. > > Guy Were I in Sydney, I would spend the ~4 hours to drive to a little West of Canberra: https://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ https://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/about/complexes/visiting/ If you happen to go, tell them the New Horizons Payload System Engineer says hello, keep up the great work, and thanks for all the bits! - Mark Tapley
RE: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand?
>Subject: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand? >From: Patrick Finnegan >I'm going to be in Australia and then New Zealand for most of June, and was >wondering if there was anything interesting classic computer wise to visit? >I'm planning on being in Sydney for the Australia half of the trip, and >haven't made many plans for New Zealand yet besides flying in/out of >Auckland. >Pat At 10:38 PM 20/05/2019 +0100, Rob wrote: >Lookup Max Burnet in Sydney, well worth a visit. Sadly, Max is very frail these days and now lives in a nursing home. He's overseeing the distribution of the contents of his personal museum to other custodians, some in Oz, some in the US. I've only met him once, recently, during an ACMS working day. The state of classic computers perservation in Australia in general is pretty sad. Very little in the way of organised exhibition spaces. Mostly it's just motivated individuals, doing what they can with shoestrings and a spare room or two. There are some computer museum sites in Melbourne apparently, but none I'm aware of in Sydney. (Where I live.) Here even the Australian Computer Museum Society is reduced to stuffing things in shipping containers in fields on farms, and whatever cheap storage spaces they can find. For a list of known personal collections, you could contact Tennyson Delarosa me...@acms.org.au My own personal collection is barely worth a visit. And very 'stacked' in small spaces. The PowerHouse Museum in the city has a section on computer history, with some nice things. But that's a tiny proportion of their overall space. Very typically of Australia, the Powerhouse Museum recently almost had their site sold out from under them by the government, to developers. That seems to have been stopped. For now. There's the Kurrajong Radio Museum (a fair drive out to the NW) with lots of great old radio gear but not much in the computing line. The Telstra Museum in Bankstown (quite near where I live) has lots of fine early communications-related exhibits. But near zero computing. If anyone can think of other sites in Sydney, I'd be glad to hear of them too. Otoh if you're interested in sightseeing, I can make you a list. Around the city and out in the countryside. Do you enjoy outdoors and walking? I can take you on a very nice day walk (or a few) near the city. Or further out. Also if you are adventurous I can organise some unconventional urbex experiences. Guy
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
had to crawl 300feet under raised floor cause it was carpeted runing 48pair fiber line took a good hour and half to get it over to the room with the rack in it from the building raise On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:25 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 5/20/19 2:04 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > > try crawling under them > > You'd only upset the mice and the cockroaches. I recall that back in > the day at CDC SVLOPS, the local CEs made a pet of one of the sub-floor > mice. Field crickets were a problem back then too--the moment that the > weather turned cool, they'd invade the facility. It was not unusual to > find a couple hiding out in one's desk drawers. > > --Chuck > >
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
> On May 20, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk > wrote: > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 5:07 PM William Donzelli via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>> I'm used to 2' (24") raised floors. >> >> I was used to 24 inch floors packed with so many dead cables they were >> effectively 6 to 12 inch floors. Or worse. >> > > This gets at exactly the reason I dislike raised floors "out of sight - > out of mind". If all of the cabling is overhead, it gets ugly when you > abandon stuff, and there's more motivation to not make it a mess. Perhaps, but I remember seeing overhead cable trays running down the hallways in the DEC Mill, full of ancient and obviously abandoned stuff. > Also, I'd rather see all of the parts, rather than have them hidden from > view. I suppose that not everyone shares that point of view. Raised floors often doubled as air handling space, supplying cold air for cooling the equipment. Overhead trays work well for rack mounted equipment, where the trays hang just above the racks. When the equipment is in cabinets of varying height, like line printers or RP06 disk drives or stuff like that, running the cable way up in the air isn't so handy. Never mind the fact that the connectors are configured to send the cable downward to the floor, not up to the ceiling. paul
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 5/20/19 1:30 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk wrote: > As Adam isn't on the list, and I am one of those in that photograph... >From the pictures, it looks like the packs were left in the drives. You should >pull them and lock down the actuator arm before moving them any further.
Looking for my old ADM-3A
I used to have an ADM-3A Dumb Terminal... fixed it up, and made my own lower-case ROM from a 2716 EPROM and a lot of small wires. Sold it around 2005 or so, but can't remember who bought it. Anyway I'd like to buy it back if the current owner is out there and isn't using it :) Thanks Charles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 5:07 PM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I'm used to 2' (24") raised floors. > > I was used to 24 inch floors packed with so many dead cables they were > effectively 6 to 12 inch floors. Or worse. > This gets at exactly the reason I dislike raised floors "out of sight - out of mind". If all of the cabling is overhead, it gets ugly when you abandon stuff, and there's more motivation to not make it a mess. Also, I'd rather see all of the parts, rather than have them hidden from view. I suppose that not everyone shares that point of view. Pat
Available: Wang 370 book
Hi, I got a stash of documentation yesterday. Found a book "WANG 370 calculating system, program library volume 1" which I don't have any use for. Looks to be almost unread, it has become a bit yellow and it has a small sticker on the front page. Printed in 1968. Is there anybody that want's it (free pickup in south Sweden or for postage fee)? /Anders
Things to do in Australia & New Zealand?
I'm going to be in Australia and then New Zealand for most of June, and was wondering if there was anything interesting classic computer wise to visit? I'm planning on being in Sydney for the Australia half of the trip, and haven't made many plans for New Zealand yet besides flying in/out of Auckland. Pat
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 5/20/19 10:10 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: I cannot imagine (how) difficult it would be to run S/360 era cables in overhead trays. Many are an inch or more in diameter. I think it would be quite annoying to get cables from floor level up to the overhead cable trays. Especially from all the equipment designed for / assuming that cables went down below a raised floor. Not the least of which would be burning (I'm guessing at least) 6' of cable on each end. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 5/20/19 10:40 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: An acceptable compromise is something like the 6 ft raised floor they have over at NCSA. I've often wondered why more people don't do raised floors high enough to walk under. I guess they are trying to put it in one room and not have two separated room stacked. There's also the fact that having an open tile on a 6' (or taller) raised floor is considerably more dangerous than something much shorter. But the typical 12" raised floors I've had to deal with are... unpleasant. I'm used to 2' (24") raised floors. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
RE: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand?
Lookup Max Burnet in Sydney, well worth a visit. Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan > via cctalk > Sent: 20 May 2019 21:41 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Things to do in Australia & New Zealand? > > I'm going to be in Australia and then New Zealand for most of June, and was > wondering if there was anything interesting classic computer wise to visit? > I'm planning on being in Sydney for the Australia half of the trip, and > haven't > made many plans for New Zealand yet besides flying in/out of Auckland. > > Pat
Re: M7264 Troubleshooting
> Can you check that BHALT on the QBUS is actually asserted (i.e. 0V) when the switch is in HALT? I checked the BHALT signal going into the backplane, and it seems to be in good working order. I took a picture of the readouts for SRUN, which you can see here: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOLFAH-Uip-O3LzqZKZVndV2LpGMdNjs4ndyhsKR6aZqqmXD9utlAdkReqoTJyU4A?key=RjExZHdDNC1XTUpkWFhEdU8xLW9vdXBMa2pzY1J3 Checking the BSYNC, it looks like there is life. It oscillates at 58.605 KHz, and has wider peaks than the SRUN signal. This signal does not respond to the Run/Halt switch being toggled, but I would assume that to be normal as I have the board jumpered to run at ODT. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP3G6vBu30RlZUUR6YL3Zjz_LofyJsT-k8TOSYO8ldMhkryuxSdLJ11cq0E9OWBag?key=RlF6R1lTM0ZQc2tMTmN0TnNmdlpzYnM1X1huODFn On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:51 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > From: Mister PDP > > > > After a day of confusing and mixed up signals (I don't really use > > this type of equipment very often) .. I switched over to the > > oscilloscope > > Don't feel bad, I too prefer to rely on an oscilloscope by default; not > only does it let you see what's really happening (intermediate voltages, > noise, etc) but it's simpler, and there are less ways to get incorrent > info. > > > to confirm that the four clock signals on the MCP-1600 chipset were > > working properly .. and was able to see that the very basics of the > > CPU were working. > > It's not necessarily good if the 4 clocks (I take it that's what the > latter refers to) are working, because if one or more of those were broken, > it's a relatively easy/simple fix, whereas if they are working, and > the CPU's still not running, it could be a failed CPU chip, and the only > fix there is to replace it. > > > the SRUN signal coming off of the backplane. > > Note that SRUN isn't crucial to the machine's operation, it's just user > info. If SRUN is somehow broken on it's own (i.e. failed component > somewhere between where the CPU generates it, and the display LED) finding > and fixing that issue won't help. > > Far more useful, in terms of getting the thing running, would be to know > if BSYNC on the QBUS is hopping around (as ODT tries to talk to the > console - an easy thing to check into, too). If not, that's a show-stopper > that needs to be looked into. > > > > From: Glen Slick > > > the SRUN L signal is driven on to the backplane bus line AF1. > > The '78-'78 "microcomputer processors" says (pg. 3-15) that on the LSI-11 > it's also on CH1; just to complete the complexity, it also says (pg. 3-32) > that on the LSI-11/2 it's also on AH1! > > > > From: Mister PDP > > > I hooked the oscilloscope up to SRUN off of E68, and found that it > > oscillates low at 58.68KHz. .. Hitting the Run/Halt switch does not > > have any effect on the period or amplitude of the oscillation. > > So maybe the CPU is actually running after all? Although turning > RUN/HALT to 'HALT' should stop it - the Run light would I think go > out when ODT is running. (It certainly does on the /23.) > > Can you check that BHALT on the QBUS is actually asserted (i.e. 0V) > when the switch is in HALT? > > Noel >
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
> I'm used to 2' (24") raised floors. I was used to 24 inch floors packed with so many dead cables they were effectively 6 to 12 inch floors. Or worse. -- Will
Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....
On 5/20/19 2:04 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > try crawling under them You'd only upset the mice and the cockroaches. I recall that back in the day at CDC SVLOPS, the local CEs made a pet of one of the sub-floor mice. Field crickets were a problem back then too--the moment that the weather turned cool, they'd invade the facility. It was not unusual to find a couple hiding out in one's desk drawers. --Chuck
RE: Pleas ID this IBM system....
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Grant Taylor via > cctalk > Sent: 20 May 2019 22:00 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Pleas ID this IBM system > > On 5/20/19 10:10 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: > > I cannot imagine (how) difficult it would be to run S/360 era cables > > in overhead trays. Many are an inch or more in diameter. > > I think it would be quite annoying to get cables from floor level up to the > overhead cable trays. Especially from all the equipment designed for / > assuming that cables went down below a raised floor. > > Not the least of which would be burning (I'm guessing at least) 6' of cable on > each end. > IBM kit is designed to fit on raised floors. There isn't much clearance between the bottom of the cabinets and the floor. As someone has said the IBM bus and tag cables are thick and actual consist of multiple co-ax cables in big bundle . I have run a 4361 without raised floors, but we just ran the cables round the floor. To run in them in roof level cable trays would be challenging. You would have to run them across the floor for some distance before Curving them up would be challenging as the minimum bend radius is large. Dave > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die
