subject:"\"Battery Lifetime\""

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:36:53 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:29:32 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> > | On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > |
> > |> You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
> > |> GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
> > |> Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
> > |
> > | waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
> > ASU and
> > | being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
> > right now
> > | regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
> > |
> > | do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)
> > 
> > Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
> > tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
> > down /sys.
> 
> aaah - then it must be my forcing bl to on anyway (even tho its on) to keep
> behavior if/when you change it... let me check.. when my build finishes.

yup. it's in. cool. now if resume reason worked... i'd be able to start being a
little smart on resume... :) (yes - i updated my u-boot last week or so). is
there some magic u-boot environment i need?

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> please also test http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html

that's great -- another step towards an one-stop.
in opera it is rendered as an iframe to small to fit so the content needs  
scrolling -- but with firefox3 it is no iframe but simply cut off if the  
window is too small.
resizing the window and reload fixes it but the nabble javascript should  
be smart enough to check the size of the window and register resizing.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:34:05 +0200 "arne anka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> > waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU  
> > and
> > being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake  
> > right now
> > regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
> 
> 
> how toolkit specific is that daemon?
> i do use 2007.2 and would like to get that daemon, too.

its a back-end dameon u talk to via dbus. it has no gui. i did use ecore and
libedbus to write it though... so it'll suck in parts of EFL as dependencies.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joachim Steiger

arne anka wrote:
>> I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my  
>> inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been  
>> part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.
> 
> please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
> else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which  
> both provide a forum-like gui.

please also test http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html

its a first test.
it allows browsing and searching
also it allows users which have an account at nabble and are subscribed
to the list also to post from there (haven't tested that yet)


this is not an extra forum but an additional view onto 4 of the
mailinglists:
- openmoko-community
- support
- devel
- hardware

if you like it, please speak up.


-- 

Joachim Steiger
Openmoko Central Services

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:29:32 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> | On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> |
> |> You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
> |> GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
> |> Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
> |
> | waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
> ASU and
> | being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
> right now
> | regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
> |
> | do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)
> 
> Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
> tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
> down /sys.

aaah - then it must be my forcing bl to on anyway (even tho its on) to keep
behavior if/when you change it... let me check.. when my build finishes.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU  
> and
> being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake  
> right now
> regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)


how toolkit specific is that daemon?
i do use 2007.2 and would like to get that daemon, too.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
|
|> You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
|> GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
|> Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
|
| waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
ASU and
| being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
right now
| regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
|
| do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)

Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
down /sys.

- -Andy

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkiAqMYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqmrACeIfuexjOEzHU3a6I1KSUZ+HeC
aIUAoITN+/H5mkitRxieUlRKZqr6+kTl
=pMX3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:12:45 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
> > > Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
> > > didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.
> > 
> > not sure i understand you correctly, but several times i experience that  
> > the fr, while seemingly in suspended state, answers to a screen tap  
> > showing several console messages (whihte font, black background) and then  
> > switching to the lock screen.
> > 
> > otoh, what i meant was: when the fr frequently wakes up the screen becomes  
> > sensitive and any tap would prevent the fr from going back to suspend --  
> > so if in one of these moments of short resumes the screen ist tapped and  
> > again and again the fr would never resume thus draining the battery  
> > quickliy.
> 
> And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when we
> see a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC, 
> powerbutton...)?

no kernel mechanism to "power down" ts (like you can power down bluetooth
for example)? :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Pomeroy Lab
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my inbox
> each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been part of a lot
> of mailing lists and this one is too much.

no - this has been discussed. we are not switching to forums - forums wont
REDUCE the traffic - it just puts the same content in a web page. it has also
been noted that MANY people will cease to participate if they now have to load
up a web browser and log into a forum and click away repeatedly waiting for
page reloads just to participate here. enable threading in your mail client and
use filters to filter out mail per mailing list into different inboxes to help
you cope. :(

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
> GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
> Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.

waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU and
being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake right now
regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)

do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen

Friday 18 July 2008 arne anka wrote:
> > I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my
> > inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been
> > part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.
>
> please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
> else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which
> both provide a forum-like gui.

  Or, you know, use an email client which filters stuff and threads it... ;)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my  
> inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been  
> part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.

please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which  
both provide a forum-like gui.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Pomeroy Lab

I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my inbox 
each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been part of a lot of 
mailing lists and this one is too much.

Mathieu Rochette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
 
 Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
 eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
 silently once the wake reason was serviced.
should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
eg: echo 0 > /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen 

maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy me 
for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
 


 ___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Roland Mas

arne anka, 2008-07-18 15:09:01 +0200 :

> is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom
> actions into? 

You might try sticking a script in /etc/apm/resume.d, at least as a
first approach.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Certains disent que les vrais hommes ne font pas de backups.
Mais ils disent aussi que même les vrais hommes pleurent parfois.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when  
> we see
> a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC,
> powerbutton...)?


my question exactly.



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
> > You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
> > GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
> > Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
> 
> 
> is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom actions  
> into? then, as a workaround, we could check what caused the resume and put  
> it back to sleep immediately or at least disable the screen.

That's what Carstens daemon is all about! ;-)
/j


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
> > Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
> > didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.
> 
> not sure i understand you correctly, but several times i experience that  
> the fr, while seemingly in suspended state, answers to a screen tap  
> showing several console messages (whihte font, black background) and then  
> switching to the lock screen.
> 
> otoh, what i meant was: when the fr frequently wakes up the screen becomes  
> sensitive and any tap would prevent the fr from going back to suspend --  
> so if in one of these moments of short resumes the screen ist tapped and  
> again and again the fr would never resume thus draining the battery  
> quickliy.

And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when we see 
a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC, 
powerbutton...)?
/j


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
> GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
> Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.


is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom actions  
into? then, as a workaround, we could check what caused the resume and put  
it back to sleep immediately or at least disable the screen.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Andy Green, 2008-07-18 10:29:54 +0100 :
|
|> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
|> |> What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
|> |> longer
|> |> than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
|> |
|> | the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
|> | where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
|> will
|> | never suspend.
|>
|> Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
|> didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
|> world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
|> goes to your bag.
|
| The scenario, as I understand it, is this:
| 1. Freerunner gets into suspend (either manually or after some time);
| 2. Freerunner is put into bag;
| 3. GSM ping gets the phone out of suspend;
| 4. Freerunner is still in the bag (and you're walking to/from work),
| so its touchscreen prevents further suspends.

You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkiAlEEACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqX8gCeLyjebGheDw4XUGwH/00gNUps
zNcAnileHyH0avMj5c223ihFvvQeRoFL
=2GTL
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Steven **

It seems I was a little too ambitious with this test.  I ran "apm -s"
and then went to bed.  I woke up to a spiffy dead battery less than 6
hours later.  :-/

-Steven

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Adam Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/
>
> Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
> every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
> wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
> Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
> will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
> only one who can get these numbers ;-)
> -Adam
>
>
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
>> I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
>> dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
>> say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
>> showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
>> desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
>> minutes or so).  "apm" showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
>> apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
>> standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > How are you doing this?
>> >
>> > If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
>> > nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
>> > Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
>> > to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
>> > suffer from this?
>> >
>> > I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
>> > What are you using?
>>
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
> didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.

not sure i understand you correctly, but several times i experience that  
the fr, while seemingly in suspended state, answers to a screen tap  
showing several console messages (whihte font, black background) and then  
switching to the lock screen.

otoh, what i meant was: when the fr frequently wakes up the screen becomes  
sensitive and any tap would prevent the fr from going back to suspend --  
so if in one of these moments of short resumes the screen ist tapped and  
again and again the fr would never resume thus draining the battery  
quickliy.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Roland Mas

Andy Green, 2008-07-18 10:29:54 +0100 :

> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> |> What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
> |> longer
> |> than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
> |
> | the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
> | where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
> will
> | never suspend.
>
> Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
> didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
> world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
> goes to your bag.

The scenario, as I understand it, is this:
1. Freerunner gets into suspend (either manually or after some time);
2. Freerunner is put into bag;
3. GSM ping gets the phone out of suspend;
4. Freerunner is still in the bag (and you're walking to/from work),
so its touchscreen prevents further suspends.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Qu'est-ce qui est petit, jaune et vachement dangereux ?
Un canari avec le mot de passe de root.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

|> Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:
|>
|>
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644
|> bfdc4d7c03707a979e
|
| That's good to hear, thanks. Will this be in the latest daily build
along with
| the SD fix?

Yes although how much of "fix" the SD patches are is uncertain.  We have
reason to believe SD_CLK is implicated and that should help, but reports
from folks trying the patches are unclear about it.  I have another more
aggressive and uglier way to come at it if it isn't actually helping.
Anyway today's distribution build should have all that in FWIW.

| If you need this testing then point me at the images and let me know
what you
| need doing. My cell reregistrations seem to do a fair job of provoking
resume
| problems within a few hours on all the images I've tried so far.

I added some really nice diagnostic code in case of OOPS in resume it
will spew dmesg buffer down debug console regardless of resume state
(ie, it doesn't need serial driver resumed) so you can capture the OOPS
trace and resume context.  But nobody saw it triggered yet except me
when I tested it.  (BTW I added another recent patch so if we PANIC, we
flash the top LED, that doesn't happen either.)  So it seems somehow we
deadlock somewhere.  If I can reproduce it, I can debug it using very
gritty methods like moving around printk(); force OOPS or lighting LEDs
at different points... that's not really end user debug technique :-)
But thanks for the offer.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkiAZb4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpUpgCcCyDe6lkGCSpXka7PAEur4ttR
588AnR88Xdxofsn3P9g9r9q8HfvD2zJ6
=xht1
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
|> What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
|> longer
|> than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
|
| the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
| where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
will
| never suspend.

Touchscreen is not a "wake from suspend" source, so as you suggest it
didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
goes to your bag.

| btw: are there hooks to actions to be done on suspend/resume and a way
to
| determine if the resume was caused by phone/pwrbutton or something else?

cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason

as I mentioned gives you the resume reason easily enough if you have
current U-Boot.  I think Carsten plans to have it done by D-Bus to talk
to this daemon.  But I am a bit doubtful this userspace-centric way is
going to be enough.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkiAYpIACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpRGQCfQxFbG7hxivFMhCm+KZTDyM3x
VmoAoJHKYBEuN/G6wJ1jGOB2E46t2SPY
=ykiz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

> What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no  
> longer
> than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?

the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place  
where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it will  
never suspend.
btw: are there hooks to actions to be done on suspend/resume and a way to  
determine if the resume was caused by phone/pwrbutton or something else?

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb Adam Talbot:
> I just got a running SIM card :-)
> My FR likes to resume at lease once a min.  If you were to take a
> "stealth" approach, it would be doing 100's of resumes in a day.  Which
> is fine, if you want to test resume ;-)
What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no longer 
than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?


> I think we need to block this at a uBoot level.  Perhaps a black list of
> events?
Nah, can't be done. Completely wrong concept.

/j

> -Adam
>  
> On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 01:14 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> > Am Do  17. Juli 2008 schrieb Mathieu Rochette:
> > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that 
should
> > > > eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
> > > > silently once the wake reason was serviced.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
> > > eg: echo 0 > /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen
> > > 
> > > maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't 
annoy
> > > me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
> > > 
> > 
> > Of course this could be handled: just use RTC to resume after 2h of "DND", 
and 
> > block all resume reasons you don't want to see FR wakes on during that 
time 
> > (or handle them "stealth mode" with the upcoming deamon Carsten is about 
to 
> > write).
> > /j
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Adam Talbot

I just got a running SIM card :-)
My FR likes to resume at lease once a min.  If you were to take a
"stealth" approach, it would be doing 100's of resumes in a day.  Which
is fine, if you want to test resume ;-)
I think we need to block this at a uBoot level.  Perhaps a black list of
events?
-Adam
 
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 01:14 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> Am Do  17. Juli 2008 schrieb Mathieu Rochette:
> > On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
> > > eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
> > > silently once the wake reason was serviced.
> > 
> > 
> > should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
> > eg: echo 0 > /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen
> > 
> > maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy
> > me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
> > 
> 
> Of course this could be handled: just use RTC to resume after 2h of "DND", 
> and 
> block all resume reasons you don't want to see FR wakes on during that time 
> (or handle them "stealth mode" with the upcoming deamon Carsten is about to 
> write).
> /j
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Do  17. Juli 2008 schrieb Mathieu Rochette:
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
> > eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
> > silently once the wake reason was serviced.
> 
> 
> should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
> eg: echo 0 > /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen
> 
> maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy
> me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
> 

Of course this could be handled: just use RTC to resume after 2h of "DND", and 
block all resume reasons you don't want to see FR wakes on during that time 
(or handle them "stealth mode" with the upcoming deamon Carsten is about to 
write).
/j

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Al Johnson

On Thursday 17 July 2008, Andy Green wrote:
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> | Subject to wakeups caused by cell reregistration this is true. This
>
> isn't a
>
> | complaint - keep reading ;-) It does a wake to full backlight too,
>
> which is
>
> | distracting and wastes power
>
> Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:
>
> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644
>bfdc4d7c03707a979e

That's good to hear, thanks. Will this be in the latest daily build along with 
the SD fix? 

> |> Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
> |> does not solve.
>
> Suspend per se is actually really quite stable (I sat here a few weeks
> ago doing 100 in a row with no trouble) except for one issue, something
> to do with certain GSM wakes getting in there first and deadlocking it
> somehow in resume time.  Unfortunately not for want of trying I can't
> reproduce it here using my normal setup... which is why I know suspend
> is otherwise really pretty stable on current kernels.  I'll be looking
> at it again very soon.

If you need this testing then point me at the images and let me know what you 
need doing. My cell reregistrations seem to do a fair job of provoking resume 
problems within a few hours on all the images I've tried so far.

> | That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use
>
> suspend. It
>
> | resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another
>
> chance to
>
> | fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to
>
> reliably
>
> | resume makes it an unreliable phone.
>
> Yes, it's an issue.  But it seems pretty certain this is "just
> software".  Once we fix whatever the remaining issue is with
> GSM-provoked (and that much is known, if you turn off GSM before suspend
> you don't die in resume any more) resume deadlock and there is the wake
> daemon this should eventually be OK.

That was the impression I had got from looking at the list archives, but it's 
nice to hear it confirmed. 

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Mathieu Rochette

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
> eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
> silently once the wake reason was serviced.

should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
eg: echo 0 > /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen

maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy
me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| Subject to wakeups caused by cell reregistration this is true. This
isn't a
| complaint - keep reading ;-) It does a wake to full backlight too,
which is
| distracting and wastes power

Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:

http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644bfdc4d7c03707a979e

|> Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
|> does not solve.

Suspend per se is actually really quite stable (I sat here a few weeks
ago doing 100 in a row with no trouble) except for one issue, something
to do with certain GSM wakes getting in there first and deadlocking it
somehow in resume time. Unfortunately not for want of trying I can't
reproduce it here using my normal setup... which is why I know suspend
is otherwise really pretty stable on current kernels. I'll be looking
at it again very soon.

| That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use
suspend. It
| resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another
chance to
| fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to
reliably
| resume makes it an unreliable phone.

Yes, it's an issue. But it seems pretty certain this is "just
software". Once we fix whatever the remaining issue is with
GSM-provoked (and that much is known, if you turn off GSM before suspend
you don't die in resume any more) resume deadlock and there is the wake
daemon this should eventually be OK.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkh/smIACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpycwCdF1XBALEYeCqOp3GhRzmmGXYF
lmoAoJT7eL7w89qkdJFxWQLnc0O0k/xz
=204a
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Hi,
| I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it
| does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes.
| Someone earlier wrote:
|
| That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use
suspend. It
| resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another
chance to
| fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to
reliably
| resume makes it an unreliable phone.
|
|
| So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up
| from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know
| it's under development, just curious.

In there kernel we can mark interrupt sources as capable to wake, but
there is no API at the moment to manage what happens to the "waking
session".  I added a "wake reason" /sys file that if you have recent
U-Booy you can check like this:

cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason

Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
silently once the wake reason was serviced.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkh/rlkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrjvgCePdRRBgH1Dq/BTFSa3U3kuyuB
15gAnjorEeW1rFROAq0EPwddf/7YpQS+
=Vb7h
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Suspend Mode, was Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Hi,
|
| Am Mittwoch, den 16.07.2008, 13:17 -0600 schrieb Scott Derrick:
|> Will the phone answer calls in suspend mode?  Get text messages?
|>
|> If I suspend I haven't turned it into a dumb brick right?
|
| I have successfully put my phone to sleep and then see it wake up by an
| incoming call that I could accept – so that works. I haven’t tested it
| often enough to say anything about reliability.

Just to give an idea of where the battery goes (this is current at battery):

~ ~190mA  running normally with backlight fully on
~  ~90mA  running normally with backlight off
~  <10mA (typical avg over several seconds) suspend / GSM modem listening

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkh/q2IACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoYdwCgjmAHKKiWR//9q/lIraYSOTMC
Q2gAn2ARNp35aV7rlUyX6AFZBiLiNCEJ
=rqlN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Adam Talbot

apm -s
???
-Adam


On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 01:09 -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:33:18AM -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
> > dim&lock != suspend   :-)
> > If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
> > down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
> > ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
> > the GMS modem, and ram. 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dbus-send --system --print-reply 
> --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer 
> org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Suspend int32:0
> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Hal 
> was not provided by any .service files
> 
> OK, what is the equiavelent to this for the ASU image?
> 
> -ken
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Christoph Anton Mitterer

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 20:12 -0600, Scott Derrick wrote:
> you got a SD card plugged in?
Nope (due to our GPS issue ;) )


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread arne anka

> Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
> to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else

dim+lock is supposed to wake only when you touch the power button, imo.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Kalle Happonen

Hi,
I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it 
does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes. 
Someone earlier wrote:

That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It 
resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to 
fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably 
resume makes it an unreliable phone.


So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up 
from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know 
it's under development, just curious.

Cheers,
Kalle


Adam Talbot wrote:
> I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
> http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/
>
> Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
> every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
> wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
> Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
> will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
> only one who can get these numbers ;-)
> -Adam
>
>
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
>   
>> I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
>> dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
>> say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
>> showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
>> desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
>> minutes or so).  "apm" showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
>> apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
>> standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> How are you doing this?
>>>
>>> If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
>>> nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
>>> Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
>>> to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
>>> suffer from this?
>>>
>>> I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
>>> What are you using?
>>>   
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> 
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Ken Restivo

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:33:18AM -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
> dim&lock != suspend   :-)
> If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
> down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
> ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
> the GMS modem, and ram. 
> 



[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dbus-send --system --print-reply 
--dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer 
org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Suspend int32:0
Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Hal 
was not provided by any .service files

OK, what is the equiavelent to this for the ASU image?

-ken

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/

Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
only one who can get these numbers ;-)
-Adam


On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
> I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
> dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
> say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
> showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
> desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
> minutes or so).  "apm" showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
> apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
> standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.
> 
> -Steven
> 
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How are you doing this?
> >
> > If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
> > nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
> > Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
> > to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
> > suffer from this?
> >
> > I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
> > What are you using?
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Steven **

I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
minutes or so).  "apm" showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.

-Steven

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How are you doing this?
>
> If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
> nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
> Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
> to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
> suffer from this?
>
> I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
> What are you using?

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

Chris,

you got a SD card plugged in?

Scott

Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> How are you doing this?
>
> If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
> nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
> Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
> to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
> suffer from this?
>
> I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
> What are you using?
>
> On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 21:29 -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
>   
>> This is all with my FreeRunner.
>> 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
>> like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
>> of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
>> out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
>> management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
>> many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
>> a working SIM to test wake up on call.
>>
>> Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
>> module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?
>> 
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> 

-- 

-
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits 
drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits 
of the law," because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it 
violates the rights of the individual.

Thomas Jefferson 


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Christoph Anton Mitterer

How are you doing this?

If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
suffer from this?

I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
What are you using?

On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 21:29 -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
> This is all with my FreeRunner.
> 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
> like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
> of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
> out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
> management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
> many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
> a working SIM to test wake up on call.
> 
> Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
> module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Suspend Mode, was Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Joachim Breitner

Hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 16.07.2008, 13:17 -0600 schrieb Scott Derrick:
> Will the phone answer calls in suspend mode?  Get text messages?
> 
> If I suspend I haven't turned it into a dumb brick right?

I have successfully put my phone to sleep and then see it wake up by an
incoming call that I could accept – so that works. I haven’t tested it
often enough to say anything about reliability.

Greetings,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim "nomeata" Breitner
  mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Key: 4743206C
  JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  Debian Developer: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


signature.asc
Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Suspend Mode, was Re: Battery Lifetime





Will the phone answer calls in suspend mode?  Get text messages?

If I suspend I haven't turned it into a dumb brick right?

Scott

Adam Talbot wrote:

  dim&lock != suspend   :-)
If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
the GMS modem, and ram. 

Check out the S3 state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface
-Adam



On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:15 +0200, arne anka wrote:
  
  

  This is how I do it.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata
  

read it already, but that should basically be the same as dim&lock,  
shouldn't it?

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

  
  

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

  




___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Al Johnson

On Wednesday 16 July 2008, Adam Talbot wrote:
> I am not sure what you are referring to as "bullshit."  I have a
> FreeRunner, and am getting about 7 days of run time from it.  In the
> last 10days, sense I got it, I have only needed to charge it once. If
> you think this is crap, then prove me wrong!  Log into your FR and
> execute an 'apm -s'.  Give it 24 hours then hit the power button.  It
> should come up in about 2 seconds, then check you battery health.  If
> you want exact numbers run 'apm'.   I open this challenge up to every
> one.  What are your number for a 24 hours suspend?  Battery
> before/after.

Subject to wakeups caused by cell reregistration this is true. This isn't a 
complaint - keep reading ;-) It does a wake to full backlight too, which is 
distracting and wastes power

> Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
> does not solve.

That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It 
resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to 
fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably 
resume makes it an unreliable phone.

This covers kernels built with mokomakefile up to last week. I've not tried 
anything more recent yet. However a quick look at the kernel list archives 
will show the kernel devs are fully aware of these problems and are working 
to fix them. Thanks guys! This gives me confidence that before long we'll 
have reliable resume and hence decent battery life. In the meantime I'll keep 
working in areas I can do something useful.

> -Adam
> P.S.  Stop complaining and start helping.

I wish more people felt that way :-)

> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:51 +0200, thomasg wrote:
> > Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
> > Complete bullshit.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery
> > lifetime people
> > are seeing?
> >
> > I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large
> > poll
> > concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1
> > issue, far
> > and above any other issue people are concerned about and want
> > to see
> > improvement.  Yes, battery life.
> >
> > The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of
> > standby!
> > Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8
> > hours of
> > standby makes the FR a toy at best.
> >
> > I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit
> > to accept
> > a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I
> > seriously can't
> > use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery
> > life.
> >
> > Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in
> > that is
> > granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using
> > software?
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > --
> >
> > -
> >Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our
> > will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of
> > others. I do not add "within the limits of the law," because
> > law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
> > violates the rights of the individual.
> >
> >Thomas Jefferson
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread ian douglas

Yorick Moko wrote:
> maybe it would help if there was standard a button to click on to
> suspend the phone (maybe label it Suspend(Bèta)) because it seems most
> people are not aware of something other than dim&lock

If someone's going to get into adding buttons:
Our group last night agreed having a 'reboot' button would be nice too,
instead of just the 'shutdown' button and having to manually re-power
the phone.

-id

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Yorick Moko

my freerunner will arrive this week, but don't worry, i'm a true believer :)

maybe it would help if there was standard a button to click on to
suspend the phone (maybe label it Suspend(Bèta)) because it seems most
people are not aware of something other than dim&lock


On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Adam Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am not sure what you are referring to as "bullshit."  I have a
> FreeRunner, and am getting about 7 days of run time from it.  In the
> last 10days, sense I got it, I have only needed to charge it once. If
> you think this is crap, then prove me wrong!  Log into your FR and
> execute an 'apm -s'.  Give it 24 hours then hit the power button.  It
> should come up in about 2 seconds, then check you battery health.  If
> you want exact numbers run 'apm'.   I open this challenge up to every
> one.  What are your number for a 24 hours suspend?  Battery
> before/after.
>
> Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
> does not solve.
> -Adam
> P.S.  Stop complaining and start helping.
>
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:51 +0200, thomasg wrote:
>> Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
>> Complete bullshit.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery
>> lifetime people
>> are seeing?
>>
>> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large
>> poll
>> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1
>> issue, far
>> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want
>> to see
>> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>>
>> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of
>> standby!
>> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8
>> hours of
>> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>>
>> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit
>> to accept
>> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I
>> seriously can't
>> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery
>> life.
>>
>> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in
>> that is
>> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using
>> software?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our
>> will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of
>> others. I do not add "within the limits of the law," because
>> law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
>> violates the rights of the individual.
>>
>>Thomas Jefferson
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

I am not sure what you are referring to as "bullshit."  I have a
FreeRunner, and am getting about 7 days of run time from it.  In the
last 10days, sense I got it, I have only needed to charge it once. If
you think this is crap, then prove me wrong!  Log into your FR and
execute an 'apm -s'.  Give it 24 hours then hit the power button.  It
should come up in about 2 seconds, then check you battery health.  If
you want exact numbers run 'apm'.   I open this challenge up to every
one.  What are your number for a 24 hours suspend?  Battery
before/after.

Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
does not solve.
-Adam
P.S.  Stop complaining and start helping.

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:51 +0200, thomasg wrote:
> Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
> Complete bullshit.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery
> lifetime people
> are seeing?
> 
> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large
> poll
> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1
> issue, far
> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want
> to see
> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
> 
> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of
> standby!
> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8
> hours of
> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
> 
> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit
> to accept
> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I
> seriously can't
> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery
> life.
> 
> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in
> that is
> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using
> software?
> 
> Scott
> 
> --
> 
> -
>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our
> will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of
> others. I do not add "within the limits of the law," because
> law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
> violates the rights of the individual.
> 
>Thomas Jefferson
> 
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen

thomasg wrote:
> Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
> Complete bullshit.
Which of this? I agree with Scott, well, in a more understanding, and 
smiling way but still. I took the phone from the charger this morning, 
and it's almost dead now at the end of the workday, without me having 
used it at all. But I know there's work on improving this, and some nice 
results too, and I'm ok with this now. For real use, the current battery 
life just doesn't work in most cases.

As for the other stuff in the mail, people have been fighting with sim 
cards, gsm (o/), gps (o/).

But not to worry, improvement is on the way, and the speed that this 
moves on with the openmoko team and the community, I'm pretty sure this 
(and most other issues) will be solved sooner than later.

>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime
> people
> are seeing?
>
> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>
> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>
> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to
> accept
> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously
> can't
> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.
>
> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?
>
> Scott
>
> --
>
> -
>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will
> within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do
> not add "within the limits of the law," because law is often but
> the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of
> the individual.
>
>Thomas Jefferson
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org <mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org>
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> 
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>   


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread thomasg

Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
Complete bullshit.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people
> are seeing?
>
> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>
> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>
> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept
> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't
> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.
>
> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?
>
> Scott
>
> --
>
> -
>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
> limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within
> the limits of the law," because law is often but the tyrant's will, and
> always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
>
>Thomas Jefferson
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread arne anka

> dim&lock != suspend   :-)

i learned yesterday that

dim&lock == suspend

and the messages scrolling over the screen before the lock screen comes  
back when [pressing pwr | incoming call | fr wakes up frequently] prove  
that imho.

dim&!lock != suspend



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

dim&lock != suspend   :-)
If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
the GMS modem, and ram. 

Check out the S3 state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface
-Adam

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:15 +0200, arne anka wrote:
> > This is how I do it.
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata
> 
> read it already, but that should basically be the same as dim&lock,  
> shouldn't it?
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread arne anka

> This is how I do it.
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata

read it already, but that should basically be the same as dim&lock,  
shouldn't it?

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

This is how I do it.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 14:50 +0200, arne anka wrote:
> > Wow thats fantastic!  First I have heard.
> >
> > Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry.
> 
> i absolutely don't think it is a "non-issue" -- on the contrary!
> besides tony tu from openmoko he is the only one claiming to get a  
> lifetime of 100h or more.
> i'd pretty much like to know how he does that.
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread arne anka

> Wow thats fantastic!  First I have heard.
>
> Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry.

i absolutely don't think it is a "non-issue" -- on the contrary!
besides tony tu from openmoko he is the only one claiming to get a  
lifetime of 100h or more.
i'd pretty much like to know how he does that.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime

Wow thats fantastic!  First I have heard.

Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry.

Scott

Adam Talbot wrote:
> This is all with my FreeRunner.
> 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
> like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
> of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
> out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
> management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
> many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
> a working SIM to test wake up on call.
>
> Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
> module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?
>
> On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
>   
>> Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new
>> suspend/resume functionality.  I don't know if there's an image that
>> has those changes available though.  It's not a hardware issue...
>>
>> -Steven
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people
>>> are seeing?
>>>
>>> I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
>>> concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
>>> and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
>>> improvement.  Yes, battery life.
>>>
>>> The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
>>> Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
>>> standby makes the FR a toy at best.
>>>
>>> I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept
>>> a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't
>>> use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.
>>>
>>> Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
>>> granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>>Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within 
>>> limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within 
>>> the limits of the law," because law is often but the tyrant's will, and 
>>> always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
>>>
>>>Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Openmoko community mailing list
>>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>>
>>>   
>> ___
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community@lists.openmoko.org
>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> 
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>   

-- 

-
The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.

Molly Ivans 


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Battery Lifetime