Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
To me, it looks like the game is played: Buy MS OS--whatever the latest version. Use all MS products on it (browsers, email programs, Office). Repeat about every 3 years. I'm not sure this is a fair analysis, Sue. As I mentioned earlier, I'm still using, with Vista, software that was written decades ago, some of it for DOS. Certainly XP ran almost everything that worked with earlier versions of Windows. There was virtually no XP-only software until fairly recently, when a tipping point was reached: XP's market share got to the point where software could use features that are only in XP and still sell well enough to make a profit. Now, Vista is a bit different. Some older software won't run. That is mostly (and I do say mostly) due to the enhanced security: the software is trying to do things that the security changes in Vista won't allow. But even so, MOST software does work fine. Certainly it's easy to use non-MS products in the categories you mentioned: Firefox, Eudora, and Open Office or Corel Office all work fine (I'm not sure what problems you're referring to with Eudora--the Eudora people say there are none). I'll tell you how -I- think the game is played: Slam MS mercilessly (and justifiably) for XP vulnerabilities. Then slam MS for fixing them in Vista because older software that did unsafe things isn't allowed to run any more. Best, Chris * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
How many horses is enough for Vista to run well? Which version of Vista? Well, I'm running Vista Ultimate with an Intel Core2 (dual processor) at 2.4GHz and 2GB of RAM. Not exactly top-of-the-line stuff any more... Chris * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
And it's certainly more secure. Chris How do you know for sure? My impression of improved security is tighter digital rights management and IT's tighter control over what the user can do (in a corporate environment). I've never had an infection and my Windows 2000 is still running fine. On a new, fast machine with SATA drives. No, I've never had an infection either, but that doesn't mean that Windows was secure. It just means that we were both careful about what we did. :) To begin with, there are controls on what software can and can't do that did not exist in XP (which is the primary cause of some older software not working right, by the way). Under XP and earlier versions, any program could, for example, monkey with critical parts of the registry and even replace parts of the OS without much difficulty. Not good. Under Vista, these kind of changes are locked down unless you have sufficient rights AND you give permission. Additionally, changes were made such that it is practical for the first time to NOT run all the time as an administrator. This makes a huge difference in security. But rather than my going into a list, your best bet is probably to do a Google search on Vista security. I ran across these two non-MS articles pretty quickly: http://www.vistahunt.com/truth-about-windows-vista-security-revealed.html http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5538 I'm not sure why you mention DRM, which is unrelated to computer security. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
I just migrated my parents (late 70's, early 80's) from their 10-year old, first edition iMac to the latest model iMac. Yes, they are learning OS X 10.5 after using OS 8.6. That said, I told them not to buy any software, but to download Firefox and OpenOffice. The free, open-source software is reliable and will handle all of their modest needs. They paid less for their 20-inch LCD iMac than they paid for the original iMac. They are through with Microsoft Office, through with buying any software. Their requirements are light, but I bet most people don't have much in the way of software requirements for simple home use. They used that old computer for ten years until it died - dead power supply, and I told them it was time to replace it. (Business would be another analysis.) It is time for Apple to pay attention to compatibility again, though. My four year old Power Mac dual-G5 will run 10.5, but probably not 10.6, which will likely be Intel-only. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- To me, it looks like the game is played: Buy MS OS--whatever the latest version. Use all MS products on it (browsers, email programs, Office). Repeat about every 3 years. My son is pushing me to buy a Mac. Is the situation the same with them? I see no reason to switch to a more expensive system if I have to keep replacing them too. The old Apple was very long-term stable and I often supported clients that were running a range of Mac OSs that spanned 10 or more years. Old software ran fine on new machines and new OSs. Recently that has not been the case. Apple's transition to OS X forced changes at a much faster pace than Mac users were used to. Over about 6 years the old systems became hard to integrate with newer systems. Before we could catch a breath Apple changed processors. Now we have a situation where the old software won't even run on the new hardware. Apple is pushing us through this transition at an even faster pace than the OS X transition. Will things slow down now? Or will Apple decide that this rapid pace is better for them? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
I ran the upgrade adviser and it shows only 15 of my applications won't work with Vista -- better than I had expected. There were no device problems except for Bluetooth which won't work with Vista. I'm surprised that there were that many. That was certainly not my own experience. When you say won't work, is that actually what the report says? Not sure what you mean about Bluetooth. Bluetooth won't work with Vista isn't an accurate statement (MS sells Bluetooth keyboards, for example), so there must be more information than that? Chris * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
Heh, I still have an old road apple- Performa 6300 in basement that maxes out at os9.2. My G3 stopped doing anything a few months ago. My guess is a power supply but I haven't been motivated enough to find one. I haven't fired up the Mac Plus in ages but it worked the last time I tried. IMS the plus maxed out at system 7, I think I pitched the original 128K mother board and back of the case when we moved about 10 years ago. I still say Apple willingness to leave older hard ware in the wake makes them more flexible than M$ who still try to service a twenty year old PC with the same software that is expected to run on a Quad Core. Perhaps if M$ were smarter they would set up virtual machines in a new vista installation to mimic older OS when needed instead of a one size fits all OS. On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT CIV) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just migrated my parents (late 70's, early 80's) from their 10-year old, first edition iMac to the latest model iMac. Yes, they are learning OS X 10.5 after using OS 8.6. That said, I told them not to buy any software, but to download Firefox and OpenOffice. The free, open-source software is reliable and will handle all of their modest needs. They paid less for their 20-inch LCD iMac than they paid for the original iMac. They are through with Microsoft Office, through with buying any software. Their requirements are light, but I bet most people don't have much in the way of software requirements for simple home use. They used that old computer for ten years until it died - dead power supply, and I told them it was time to replace it. (Business would be another analysis.) It is time for Apple to pay attention to compatibility again, though. My four year old Power Mac dual-G5 will run 10.5, but probably not 10.6, which will likely be Intel-only. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- To me, it looks like the game is played: Buy MS OS--whatever the latest version. Use all MS products on it (browsers, email programs, Office). Repeat about every 3 years. My son is pushing me to buy a Mac. Is the situation the same with them? I see no reason to switch to a more expensive system if I have to keep replacing them too. The old Apple was very long-term stable and I often supported clients that were running a range of Mac OSs that spanned 10 or more years. Old software ran fine on new machines and new OSs. Recently that has not been the case. Apple's transition to OS X forced changes at a much faster pace than Mac users were used to. Over about 6 years the old systems became hard to integrate with newer systems. Before we could catch a breath Apple changed processors. Now we have a situation where the old software won't even run on the new hardware. Apple is pushing us through this transition at an even faster pace than the OS X transition. Will things slow down now? Or will Apple decide that this rapid pace is better for them? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Firefox 3 Bookmarks
In Firefox 3, is there any way to get back to the classic view of manage/organize bookmarks, i.e., the tree view? Now folders are shown in-line (vertically) with individual bookmarks, and if you open a folder, you lose the view of everything else but what is in the folder. Aside from the gotcha viewing, this would appear to mean that you can't drag a bookmark out of a folder, there being nowhere meaningful to drag it to. In the organize [manage] bookmarks dialog, right-clicking on a bookmark produces a menu that no longer has properties as one of its options. How can one edit the name of the bookmark? Used to be able to do this straightforwardly. Does this new interface really make sense? Thanks, Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Firefox 3 Bookmarks
I just installed Firefox 3 yesterday. Bookmarks - Organize Bookmarks opens up a window with the tree view on the left, the contents of the currently selected folder in the upper right, and the properties of the selected bookmark in the lower right. In other words, a three panel view, a lot like the Thunderbird three panel view. The window has a title: Library. It sounds like you are seeing something different. BTW, I am on Linux. On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Fred Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Firefox 3, is there any way to get back to the classic view of manage/organize bookmarks, i.e., the tree view? Now folders are shown in-line (vertically) with individual bookmarks, and if you open a folder, you lose the view of everything else but what is in the folder. Aside from the gotcha viewing, this would appear to mean that you can't drag a bookmark out of a folder, there being nowhere meaningful to drag it to. In the organize [manage] bookmarks dialog, right-clicking on a bookmark produces a menu that no longer has properties as one of its options. How can one edit the name of the bookmark? Used to be able to do this straightforwardly. Does this new interface really make sense? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Firefox 3 Bookmarks
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Fred Holmes wrote: In Firefox 3, is there any way to get back to the classic view of manage/organize bookmarks, i.e., the tree view? Now folders are shown in-line (vertically) with individual bookmarks, and if you open a folder, you lose the view of everything else but what is in the folder. Aside from the gotcha viewing, this would appear to mean that you can't drag a bookmark out of a folder, there being nowhere meaningful to drag it to. This is what I see when I open up my Organize Bookmarks window: http://www.steeds.com/vicky/ff3_bookmarks.png It has a tree view in the left pane, and a list of bookmarks in the selected folder on the right. Is this not what you see? In the organize [manage] bookmarks dialog, right-clicking on a bookmark produces a menu that no longer has properties as one of its options. How can one edit the name of the bookmark? Used to be able to do this straightforwardly. True, I'd like to have the old properties context-menu-item, but there is a properties pane on the bottom of the right pane. Is this not what you're looking for? Does this new interface really make sense? -- Vicky Staubly http://www.steeds.com/vicky/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Firefox 3 Bookmarks
OK, I've got it now. Seems a waste to have that properties dialog open all the time. Takes up real estate that could be used for additional lines of listing. But as long as I can edit the name of the bookmark, I'm ok. Thanks, Fred Holmes At 03:38 PM 6/18/2008, Vicky Staubly wrote: On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Fred Holmes wrote: In Firefox 3, is there any way to get back to the classic view of manage/organize bookmarks, i.e., the tree view? Now folders are shown in-line (vertically) with individual bookmarks, and if you open a folder, you lose the view of everything else but what is in the folder. Aside from the gotcha viewing, this would appear to mean that you can't drag a bookmark out of a folder, there being nowhere meaningful to drag it to. This is what I see when I open up my Organize Bookmarks window: http://www.steeds.com/vicky/ff3_bookmarks.png It has a tree view in the left pane, and a list of bookmarks in the selected folder on the right. Is this not what you see? In the organize [manage] bookmarks dialog, right-clicking on a bookmark produces a menu that no longer has properties as one of its options. How can one edit the name of the bookmark? Used to be able to do this straightforwardly. True, I'd like to have the old properties context-menu-item, but there is a properties pane on the bottom of the right pane. Is this not what you're looking for? Does this new interface really make sense? -- Vicky Staubly http://www.steeds.com/vicky/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Firefox 3 Bookmarks
I just noticed I can delete a bookmark from the drop menu and the menu sticks for the next deletion...nice. Mike On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Fred Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I've got it now. Seems a waste to have that properties dialog open all the time. Takes up real estate that could be used for additional lines of listing. But as long as I can edit the name of the bookmark, I'm ok. Thanks, Fred Holmes At 03:38 PM 6/18/2008, Vicky Staubly wrote: On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Fred Holmes wrote: In Firefox 3, is there any way to get back to the classic view of manage/organize bookmarks, i.e., the tree view? Now folders are shown in-line (vertically) with individual bookmarks, and if you open a folder, you lose the view of everything else but what is in the folder. Aside from the gotcha viewing, this would appear to mean that you can't drag a bookmark out of a folder, there being nowhere meaningful to drag it to. This is what I see when I open up my Organize Bookmarks window: http://www.steeds.com/vicky/ff3_bookmarks.png It has a tree view in the left pane, and a list of bookmarks in the selected folder on the right. Is this not what you see? In the organize [manage] bookmarks dialog, right-clicking on a bookmark produces a menu that no longer has properties as one of its options. How can one edit the name of the bookmark? Used to be able to do this straightforwardly. True, I'd like to have the old properties context-menu-item, but there is a properties pane on the bottom of the right pane. Is this not what you're looking for? Does this new interface really make sense? -- Vicky Staubly http://www.steeds.com/vicky/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Well, you're not going to be able to make a phone call (other than a VOIP call) over a data only T1. It depends on how your T1 is designed. I consider T1 to be too broad a term for specific use. It's really a descriptor of an interface level, not an application level. Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Forced to Vista?
Thanks for that info, Tom. It sounds like Apple has decided to play the game too. Can you imagine a market share if someone ever decided to build a good machine and support it for more than a few years? Strange stories this week at Macintouch.com of salesfolk at the Apple Store downselling. HQ has been telling the salesfolk not to upsell and to make the effort to match the computer to the customer's needs. Some salesfolk have taken this to heart and are asking customers if they really need what they asked for. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] T1 vs DSL?
Is VOIP a sane option today? I see if offered by various startup companies for free. Is there a reliable version that can be used by someone who depends on their telephones working? I would characterize it as a developing technology. It is certainly where the carriers want to go because circuit switching is less resource efficient (although more reliable at voice calls at this point). VoIP is packet switching, which potentially can make voice calls just another datastream. We are experimenting with this at this point. We call it softswitching, which it is. It is not yet a core network technology. One of the major problems is guaranteeing QOS over the network. With VoIP you never know where the packets are going to be routed. In circuit switched applications the carrier controls the entire datastream, we lock a 64K channel for the call duration. We dedicate your channel for that call. Doesn't matter what facilities are used to do this, until you hang up you own the 64K. Actually you only own 56K of it, we still own the 8K signalling overhead unless you pay for ISDN, then you own the 64K but you pay extra for the signalling. But it still amounts to a locked channel. A phone call is easy in a circuit switched environment (well not exactly but you get my point). As long as you can seize a circuit it's yours. If all available circuits are busy you'll be told that. One of the classic network management problems is balancing capacity versus demand. Of course you run into the Mother's Day Issue which could now be called the 9/11 Issue, where the circuit switched capacity is overwhelmed. Fast busy tells you we don't have circuit switched bandwidth to handle the call. Or the carrier facilities don't, normally we're nice enough to give you a voice message. Can VoIP potentially solve this? Possibly. It's frankly a network topology issue and we're working on it. Most tests suggest that dropped packets can still be a problem in a VoIP environment as far as voice quality is concerned. So I'd say that packet switched voice isn't there yet for the regulated network but we're working on it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
