Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 07:18:57PM +0100, Joe wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:04:40 +1200 > Chris Bannister wrote: > > > > Hint: unstable does not mean buggy. > > > > In theory. And in practice. All software has bugs, and hopefully most of the showstoppers are caught before the package passes to testing, but that is not the reason unstable is called unstable. > LXDE has been uninstallable for weeks after being broken by an update > and the Iceweasel in the repository has four grave bugs. There's a bug > somewhere systemy, I think in GTK, which makes a number of scroll bars > misbehave. Unstable was, IIRC, referred to as the developers playground. > Synaptic has been occasionally freezing, sometimes taking > the whole X display with it, for some weeks. Is this just for you? As an unstable user[1], the onus is on you to help track down these issues. [1] Also, can be misinterpreted. :) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130829061215.GD22690@tal
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 06:18:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 11:46 -0400, Tom H wrote: > > I use Ubuntu > > :) then you likely will run into the same issue like me and better > pretend that you don not use the best distro for your needs, since > Debian is the best distro for everybody. You've either changed your tune or are being sarcastic? Sarcasm doesn't travel well over mailing lists. In case you weren't aware, nobody said that Debian was the best Distro. Although, the number of derivatives certainly indicate some sort of quality metric. On another note, would you go to your local beerfest and ramble on about the dangers of alcohol? or go round to peoples' houses and ramble on about some dead guy ... oops hang on. What suits the goose doesn't necessarily suit the gander, and I presume the goose understands this and isn't interested in being preached to. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130829055514.GC22690@tal
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:02:11 +0200, wrote: Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit : Ralf Mardorf wrote: Assembler always is optimized code. Not always :-) One can also write stinky code in assembler. Like any programming language, some programmers are better at it than others -- Stanley C. Kitching Human Being Phoenix, Arizona This is something I understood very recently, and the reason for which I stopped to aggressively disdain Java and C#. The problem is not the language, it's the language's user. Always. If eclipse is slow, huge and buggy (in my experience, 2 years ago, it was.), it's not because it's written in Java, there are very good programs written in Java, and in Debian, you can find games with graphics of 90s, written in C or C++, which are slow as hell on a modern computer. And nowadays compilers can make code better optimized than you could, too. The question is, what is real optimization? Speed? Size? How many of one? Or of both? Before that, I learn that it was not windows itself which was buggy, but the softwares I was using. I discovered that last one when I discovered linux, and had some crashes ;) Sounds like it's easy to say it's the language/OS 's fault, and never the programmer's one. Probably easy, but so often wrong. I think time made me wiser on those points. (funny to notice that when I was a windows users, I was used to write "window$" and "M$" and other insulting transformations which are far worse. Stopped that by discovering another OS.) I guess a high level language like C, Pascal, Basic etc. is harder to learn than Assembler, while there for sure are reasons that you nowadays program in C. Optimal optimization are speed, size, functionality and stability. Sure, first steps can be easier done with high level languages, but the result usually will be spaghetti code. Clear formatted, easy to understand, but insane: Output_to_screen_command "Hel" jump_to label_x label_y Output_to_screen_command "world" jump_to_label_z label_x Output_to_screen_command "lo " jump_to label_y label_z finish_program_command So you learned how to make your computer say "Hello world" and how to jump in R.A.L.F., but you did not learn when it's useful and when it's insane to use the jump command in R.A.L.F. ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/op.w2ka4fmhqhadp0@suse11-2
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
(I really don't have time to do this.) On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM, > [Somebody replied to somebody, arguing that C can't do objects.] The syntax does become obtuse, unfun, cluttered, etc., but it can be done. (To get the neurons connecting, think about early objective-C, when the "object" stuff was done with a special purpose pre-processor. Shoot. Don't forget that C++ itself was once a pre-processor for C.) Admittedly, the "object" syntax becomes a separate syntax and language from the C part when you do OOP in unadorned C. You have to leave the basic operators (+-*/%, etc.) out of the object-oriented language and syntax. (Which is part of the reason it becomes unfun.) You have to use #include skillfully, and you have to explicitly put function pointers in structures. It kind of turns things upside down, a bit, and a little inside-out. It'll make even seasoned C programmers seasick. And the syntax is not as flexible as C++. Which is all why C++ was written as a separate language. But it can be done. By the way, mathematically speaking, objects are machines. None of which has anything to do with the simplest part of the Linux kernel for a newbie to try to drown in. -- Joel Rees -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iMy8NP6a0kVQgZ0QJVOV4K=t-0kbtgxbtsaxpuqjke...@mail.gmail.com
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On 8/28/2013 8:02 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit : Ralf Mardorf wrote: Assembler always is optimized code. Not always :-) One can also write stinky code in assembler. Like any programming language, some programmers are better at it than others -- Stanley C. Kitching Human Being Phoenix, Arizona This is something I understood very recently, and the reason for which I stopped to aggressively disdain Java and C#. The problem is not the language, it's the language's user. Always. If eclipse is slow, huge and buggy (in my experience, 2 years ago, it was.), it's not because it's written in Java, there are very good programs written in Java, and in Debian, you can find games with graphics of 90s, written in C or C++, which are slow as hell on a modern computer. And nowadays compilers can make code better optimized than you could, too. The question is, what is real optimization? Speed? Size? How many of one? Or of both? No, compilers cannot make better optimized code than you can. Who do you think wrote the compiler? A good assembler programmer will ALWAYS outdo a compiler. The problem is there are so few GOOD assembler programmers around. Before that, I learn that it was not windows itself which was buggy, but the softwares I was using. I discovered that last one when I discovered linux, and had some crashes ;) Sounds like it's easy to say it's the language/OS 's fault, and never the programmer's one. Probably easy, but so often wrong. When you come down to it, it is ALWAYS a programmer's fault (unless you have a computer with an early Pentium chip that had a floating point bug - but even then it was the microcode programmers at fault). Programmers write the OS, programmers write the apps. When they don't work, one or the other (or both) are at fault. However, there is one other salient point. If the OS is properly designed, no application can bring it down. Windows is better at this now than in earlier version. It's actually pretty hard to crash Windows from an application nowadays. I think time made me wiser on those points. (funny to notice that when I was a windows users, I was used to write "window$" and "M$" and other insulting transformations which are far worse. Stopped that by discovering another OS.) Linux is better at this - but still not perfect. It does have the advantage of, since it is open source, more people can look at the source and find bugs. There have been a huge number of patches over the years originate by people who have done just that. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521ebea3.60...@attglobal.net
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On 8/28/2013 7:52 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 28.08.2013 22:49, Jerry Stuckle a écrit : * which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's minds. Some people may not like OOP, and they will be true, it is not always good to use it. Definitely NOT doable in C - you just don't have the tools. While you can do some parts of object based programming like message passing (i.e. calling functions to operate on structure members instead of accessing them yourself), and can even use tricks to "hide" structure members (i.e. the known interface is just a dummy char[appropriate_size] while the real structure is hidden), this can be sensitive to compilers and in some cases even compiler options. I do not consider that the public/protected/private keywords are the most important things in OOP. What YOU consider keywords in OOP is immaterial. Object Based Programming (OBP) is defined as having two attributes: Encapsulation (private/public or similar, depending on the language) Message Passing (functions in most languages). Objected Oriented Programming (OOP) extends this to include inheritance and polymorphism (including protected or similar, depending on the language). These are basic tenets of OOP, whether you agree or not. You can't even define constructors and destructors for structures in C, and have to take extra steps to ensure structures are constructed and destroyed properly. What are constructors and destructors? They are only functions which creates of free an instance of a structure. It's not automated in C, I agree, but it's doable. (And I have often seen C++ classes with Init and Clear methods, which just stole CTors/DTors roles. To be honest, I made a lot of that crap myself, in the past. I was a C programmer then, not accustomed to think in C++. Just different, not better.) They are not even mandatory in OOP: they are only used for RAII, which is not the way of "modern languages" like Java or C# (they does not have destructors, which is one the the reasons for which I do not like them. I love RAII, because I love efficient programs. Even if RAII have to be hand-crafted.) Again, constructors have a specific purpose. In OOP, they guarantee an object cannot be constructed invalidly, or if it is invalid, no operations on it can be done until it has been made valid. A Destructors also have a specific purpose - that being when the object is destroyed, any resources allocated by the object are released before the object is actually destroyed. Take the SDL, for example, with SDL_Surface structure. You never use malloc and free to control the lifetime of those objects, and they have a bunch of functions made to manipulate them, which only does that. An object is exactly that: a structure with functions to manipulate it. SDL is NOT an OO language! In C, the only problem is that you have to explicitly give the instance of the object you want to manipulate, as a parameter. In Java, you can not overload operators, and that does not avoid doing OOP stuff, right? Nope, operator overloading is not a basic tenet of OOP. It's nice in C++ and other languages (and I wish it did exist in Java), but it is not required for OOP. You can name that problem a lack of type safety if you want, but it's not new that C does not make as many controls as C++ (which is, technically, incorrect, since there is, for example, reinterpret_cast... which should never be used except if you perfectly know what you are doing, because it's the equivalent of C-style cast.). This has nothing to do with type safety. And there is no way you can do inheritance or polymorphism in C. Here, you are wrong. I won't explain myself, that link, with source code, will do it better than me: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8194250/polymorphism-in-c I remember that I understood how C++ works only when I found a document where the author was, by it's own words, reinventing the wheel. He explained how to do each C++ feature in C. Sadly, I can not find it anew, I should have saved it at that time ( in 10 years or internet, documents vanishes, I guess). This is NOT polymorphism. Polymorphism is an extension of inheritance, C does not allow inheritance, so therefore there is no polymorphism. What I meant is, OOP is not just a built-in feature of a language. It's a paradigm, a way of thinking. You can use JAVA which is a "full OOP" language (unlike C++, which explicitly allows to not use OOP technics) and not doing OOP, because you are doing things the wrong way (for OOP, I mean). When Linus said that Linux must stay in C to avoid C++ devs to contribute, I agree with him (and I really love C++, for sure). Because I noticed something: bad C programmers often go to C++, thinking it will be easier to do good job. They do dirty code, often with lot of copy/
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On 8/28/2013 5:10 PM, Ralf Martyrdom wrote: On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:49:29 +0200, Jerry Stuckle wrote: While I agree with much of what you said, I definitely disagree with your comments on macros. C was probably the 10th or so language I learned, close to 30 years ago. I found macros, when PROPERLY used, can be quite helpful in making code clearer and more understandable. The trick is to know when to use them and when not, to document them well, and most important, pick good names for the macros. Also, the convention of using all caps for macro names is good; it tells the reader this is a macro being used, and not a function call. +1 I programmed 65xx Assembler with and without macro editor and I suspect that somebody who know what (s)he does when programming in C, can use macros to optimize C code, while for Assembler, it simply is less to type, less to think about, when using macros, Assembler always is optimized code. Ah, 65xx assembler. I forgot about that - it's been too long ago A good language, though! In many ways better easier than Intel's assembler. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521eb94c.5030...@attglobal.net
Wheezy: exim4 + mailman it is not sending messages.
Hello i hope you can point me to a trusted doc to read, or tell me what to do. I read a very rude message coming from the exim4's manteiner; mailman does not have a man page, and the debian.README is not clear enough to catch the procedure to make mailman to work. I did the installation: # apt-get install mailman OK It said create mailman list OK It said that i have to copy ##List aliases to /etc/aliases OK i did it it said run # newaliases OK i did it exim sent the creation list messages, but when a user is subscribed, the user receives the confirmation message, then, replaying does not work. The web subscription works correctly. exim4 mainlog says: R=system_aliases defer (-30): pipe_transport unset in system_aliases router README.debian mentions 2 different methods, but it is absolutely confuse. Could somebody help please? thanks so much. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/566bc2e56828ffd0b5c1ff9c0699ffcc.squir...@mail.vcn.bc.ca
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
Le 29.08.2013 01:13, Cousin Stanley a écrit : Ralf Mardorf wrote: Assembler always is optimized code. Not always :-) One can also write stinky code in assembler. Like any programming language, some programmers are better at it than others -- Stanley C. Kitching Human Being Phoenix, Arizona This is something I understood very recently, and the reason for which I stopped to aggressively disdain Java and C#. The problem is not the language, it's the language's user. Always. If eclipse is slow, huge and buggy (in my experience, 2 years ago, it was.), it's not because it's written in Java, there are very good programs written in Java, and in Debian, you can find games with graphics of 90s, written in C or C++, which are slow as hell on a modern computer. And nowadays compilers can make code better optimized than you could, too. The question is, what is real optimization? Speed? Size? How many of one? Or of both? Before that, I learn that it was not windows itself which was buggy, but the softwares I was using. I discovered that last one when I discovered linux, and had some crashes ;) Sounds like it's easy to say it's the language/OS 's fault, and never the programmer's one. Probably easy, but so often wrong. I think time made me wiser on those points. (funny to notice that when I was a windows users, I was used to write "window$" and "M$" and other insulting transformations which are far worse. Stopped that by discovering another OS.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/624e8478559f1a512366a8abcb414...@neutralite.org
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
Le 28.08.2013 22:49, Jerry Stuckle a écrit : * which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's minds. Some people may not like OOP, and they will be true, it is not always good to use it. Definitely NOT doable in C - you just don't have the tools. While you can do some parts of object based programming like message passing (i.e. calling functions to operate on structure members instead of accessing them yourself), and can even use tricks to "hide" structure members (i.e. the known interface is just a dummy char[appropriate_size] while the real structure is hidden), this can be sensitive to compilers and in some cases even compiler options. I do not consider that the public/protected/private keywords are the most important things in OOP. You can't even define constructors and destructors for structures in C, and have to take extra steps to ensure structures are constructed and destroyed properly. What are constructors and destructors? They are only functions which creates of free an instance of a structure. It's not automated in C, I agree, but it's doable. (And I have often seen C++ classes with Init and Clear methods, which just stole CTors/DTors roles. To be honest, I made a lot of that crap myself, in the past. I was a C programmer then, not accustomed to think in C++. Just different, not better.) They are not even mandatory in OOP: they are only used for RAII, which is not the way of "modern languages" like Java or C# (they does not have destructors, which is one the the reasons for which I do not like them. I love RAII, because I love efficient programs. Even if RAII have to be hand-crafted.) Take the SDL, for example, with SDL_Surface structure. You never use malloc and free to control the lifetime of those objects, and they have a bunch of functions made to manipulate them, which only does that. An object is exactly that: a structure with functions to manipulate it. In C, the only problem is that you have to explicitly give the instance of the object you want to manipulate, as a parameter. In Java, you can not overload operators, and that does not avoid doing OOP stuff, right? You can name that problem a lack of type safety if you want, but it's not new that C does not make as many controls as C++ (which is, technically, incorrect, since there is, for example, reinterpret_cast... which should never be used except if you perfectly know what you are doing, because it's the equivalent of C-style cast.). And there is no way you can do inheritance or polymorphism in C. Here, you are wrong. I won't explain myself, that link, with source code, will do it better than me: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8194250/polymorphism-in-c I remember that I understood how C++ works only when I found a document where the author was, by it's own words, reinventing the wheel. He explained how to do each C++ feature in C. Sadly, I can not find it anew, I should have saved it at that time ( in 10 years or internet, documents vanishes, I guess). What I meant is, OOP is not just a built-in feature of a language. It's a paradigm, a way of thinking. You can use JAVA which is a "full OOP" language (unlike C++, which explicitly allows to not use OOP technics) and not doing OOP, because you are doing things the wrong way (for OOP, I mean). When Linus said that Linux must stay in C to avoid C++ devs to contribute, I agree with him (and I really love C++, for sure). Because I noticed something: bad C programmers often go to C++, thinking it will be easier to do good job. They do dirty code, often with lot of copy/pasted code, (recently I have seen C++ code with memset/memcpy to copy classes's instances, sounds like a nice example, but looking better in the code it might not be one of the worse I have seen.). And they call that C++ code, because they use the class keyword, and sometimes few instances of std::vector and std::string. Note that I do not pretend to be a good C++ programmer, simply an average one. As in programming in general, in fact. But I can really say when I see dirty code (copy/paste of code is a really good measurement for that. By example.) Lot of people forgot that if, in C, you can shot in your foot easily, C++ is worse: in C++, you can then reuse the bullet for your other foot. Let me quote wikipedia as a last argument (yes, authority argument is bad, I know ;) ): An object oriented program may be viewed as a collection of interacting objects, as opposed to the conventional model, in which a program is seen as a list of tasks (subroutines) to perform. In OOP, each object is capable of receiving messages, processing data, and sending messages to other objects. **Each object can be viewed as an independent "machine" with a distinct role or responsibility.** Actions (or "methods") on thes
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > Assembler always is optimized code. Not always :-) One can also write stinky code in assembler. Like any programming language, some programmers are better at it than others -- Stanley C. Kitching Human Being Phoenix, Arizona -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvm07a$frr$1...@dont-email.me
Re: Wireless works, wired doesn't [Debian 6.0.7]
On Monday 26 August 2013 18:15:06 Robert Holtzm wrote: > I don't use ifupdown. It seems to work well with NM when its commented > out. Yes, NM likes to do its own configuring and is apt to clash with anything in /etc/network/interfaces. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201308282258.18390.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Problems with nVidia proprietary driver
On Wednesday 28 August 2013 15:47:05 Curt wrote: > You don't need cat: > > less /var/log/Xorg.0.log That's great to know! Thank you. It's not the first time that I have come up against that problem. Hopefully I won't in the future. :-) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828.16382.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Solved, sort of. was Re: Problems with nVidia proprietary driver
On Monday 26 August 2013 23:07:29 Lisi Reisz wrote: [snip] > > I don't want to reinstall and put up with > nouveau if I can avoid it. :-( I was running out of time, so I had to scrap what I was doing and do a fresh install of Wheezy. The default nVidia driver that has been loaded automatically seems quite live-with-able, so for now I am satisfied. Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828.02035.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 22:49:29 +0200, Jerry Stuckle wrote: While I agree with much of what you said, I definitely disagree with your comments on macros. C was probably the 10th or so language I learned, close to 30 years ago. I found macros, when PROPERLY used, can be quite helpful in making code clearer and more understandable. The trick is to know when to use them and when not, to document them well, and most important, pick good names for the macros. Also, the convention of using all caps for macro names is good; it tells the reader this is a macro being used, and not a function call. +1 I programmed 65xx Assembler with and without macro editor and I suspect that somebody who know what (s)he does when programming in C, can use macros to optimize C code, while for Assembler, it simply is less to type, less to think about, when using macros, Assembler always is optimized code. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/op.w2jo28qiqhadp0@suse11-2
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
On 8/28/2013 2:44 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Another problem with code probably written by gurus, or which run in environments were high speed and stability is required, is that the code will be highly optimized, maybe with non-standard features, probably with lot of compilation options, etc etc. All of those things makes code more efficient, but harder to understand. Like macros, that most C programmers tend to avoid. And because I have learn C as my first language, I can tell you, that they are true to avoid them, they makes things hard to read and maintain. But they makes things fast, so I would not be surprised if there were a lot of them. And not "childish" ones like the one I made. While I agree with much of what you said, I definitely disagree with your comments on macros. C was probably the 10th or so language I learned, close to 30 years ago. I found macros, when PROPERLY used, can be quite helpful in making code clearer and more understandable. The trick is to know when to use them and when not, to document them well, and most important, pick good names for the macros. Also, the convention of using all caps for macro names is good; it tells the reader this is a macro being used, and not a function call. * which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's minds. Some people may not like OOP, and they will be true, it is not always good to use it. Definitely NOT doable in C - you just don't have the tools. While you can do some parts of object based programming like message passing (i.e. calling functions to operate on structure members instead of accessing them yourself), and can even use tricks to "hide" structure members (i.e. the known interface is just a dummy char[appropriate_size] while the real structure is hidden), this can be sensitive to compilers and in some cases even compiler options. You can't even define constructors and destructors for structures in C, and have to take extra steps to ensure structures are constructed and destroyed properly. And there is no way you can do inheritance or polymorphism in C. But I also agree OOP is not always the best choice. Even though I've been doing C++ for around 25 years, I still do a lot of stuff in C where appropriate. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521e6259.2050...@attglobal.net
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 19:18 +0100, Joe wrote: > I think in GTK, which makes a number of scroll bars > misbehave. There is a bug still present for current "stable" releases from upstream. Again, I use the term stable here for the official stable releases from _upstream_, not for Debian stable. Debian, even Debians experimental usually is behind official stable releases from upstream. However, the known bug is, that sometimes the mouse wheel doesn't work, when the cursor isn't above a scrollbar, but e.g. inside a window. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377718524.29168.19.camel@archlinux
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
Sharon Kimble wrote: On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:17:15 -0500 Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: David Goodenough wrote: I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be >>> caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency treeBut apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in >>> bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error >> it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! when I do 'aptitude why' on that file, I get that it is a dependency of > k3b, which is part of the upgrade. What happens if you do 'why'? see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721130 Hugo Hugo. Please adjust you're posting style as it is impossible to read what you're saying as its indistinguishable from the rest of the conversation. It just appears that you're signing the email without any content, which cant be true! sorry about that! I post through tbird + this is what I see: http://uppix.com/f-00_posting_tbird521e4f570013cc30.jpg and this is what I see through gmane: http://uppix.com/f-00_posting_gmane521e4de40013cc1d.jpg so I see no problems :-( Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvljc9$3sc$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: What's the easiest and/or simplest part of Linux Kernel?
Le 28.08.2013 03:36, guojzzz a écrit : The reason why I choose some *formal* projects is that I think codes are clear and there are less bugs. I will see on Github and some other projects. The assumption that clean code is bug-free is wrong. Try to read any source code of any program you think bug-free. It may be clean, or it may be a damned unreadable mess, especially if the project is old. And if the project is recent, it will not have a long history of bugs and fixes, and so may have tons of bugs, known or not by the users or authors, but, since the project is young, it will have less zombi code, coding style will be more unified, and modern programming techniques are more likely to be used, like OOP*. Another problem with code probably written by gurus, or which run in environments were high speed and stability is required, is that the code will be highly optimized, maybe with non-standard features, probably with lot of compilation options, etc etc. All of those things makes code more efficient, but harder to understand. Like macros, that most C programmers tend to avoid. And because I have learn C as my first language, I can tell you, that they are true to avoid them, they makes things hard to read and maintain. But they makes things fast, so I would not be surprised if there were a lot of them. And not "childish" ones like the one I made. So, either start your project, or contribute to small projects first, if you want to learn. Something that you can understand in less than 2 weeks, and start to hack. * which is doable in C. People saying that C can not do OOP are incompetent or lie. I do not really like C programming, but paradigm have nothing related to syntax, only with writer's minds. Some people may not like OOP, and they will be true, it is not always good to use it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/eef863b1434a4ded43faecc5ae89e...@neutralite.org
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:17:15 -0500 Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > > Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > >> David Goodenough wrote: > >>> I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every > >>> >>> morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- > >>> > >>> Calculating upgrade... Failed > >>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: > >>> libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be > >>> >>> installed or myspell-dictionary or > >>>aspell-dictionary or > >>>ispell-dictionary or > >>>hunspell-dictionary > >>> Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be > >>> >>> installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated > >>> >>> breaks, this may be >>> caused by held packages. > >>> Reading package lists... Done > >>> Building dependency treeBut apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a > >>> says:- > >>> > >>> Installed: 1.6.0-10 > >>> Candidate: 1.6.0-10 > >>> > >>> so it should not need upgrading at all. > >>> > >>> Also aspell-en is installed. > >>> > >>> Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in >>> > >>> bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. > >>> > >>> Any ideas? > >> > >> I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the > >> error >> it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I > >> haven't tried that! > >> > > > when I do 'aptitude why' on that file, I get that it is a > > > dependency of > k3b, which is part of the upgrade. What happens > > > if you do 'why'? > > see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721130 > > Hugo > Hugo. Please adjust you're posting style as it is impossible to read what you're saying as its indistinguishable from the rest of the conversation. It just appears that you're signing the email without any content, which cant be true! Thanks Sharon. -- A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk efever = http://www.efever.blogspot.com/ efever = http://sharon04.livejournal.com/ Debian testing, Fluxbox 1.3.5, LibreOffice 4.1.0.4 Registered Linux user 334501 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:04:40 +1200 Chris Bannister wrote: > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 01:29:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency > > hell or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and > > developers need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes > > newer releases than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't > > provide a stable branch that is up-to-date, in sync with stable > > releases from upstream, even the unstable branches of Debian don't > > provide this. > > Your confusion over the words "stable" and "unstable" certainly > doesn't help here. Does that paragraph really make sense to you? > > Hint: unstable does not mean buggy. > In theory. LXDE has been uninstallable for weeks after being broken by an update and the Iceweasel in the repository has four grave bugs. There's a bug somewhere systemy, I think in GTK, which makes a number of scroll bars misbehave. Synaptic has been occasionally freezing, sometimes taking the whole X display with it, for some weeks. And they're just the ones I'm aware of at the moment... no real showstoppers, but definitely buggy. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828191857.61a2e...@jretrading.com
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > > Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > >> David Goodenough wrote: > >>> I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every > >>> morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- > >>> > >>> Calculating upgrade... Failed > >>> > >>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: > >>> libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be > >>> > >>> installed or > >>> > >>>myspell-dictionary or > >>>aspell-dictionary or > >>>ispell-dictionary or > >>>hunspell-dictionary > >>> > >>> Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be > >>> > >>> installed > >>> E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be > >>> caused by held packages. > >>> Reading package lists... Done > >>> Building dependency treeBut apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- > >>> > >>> Installed: 1.6.0-10 > >>> Candidate: 1.6.0-10 > >>> > >>> so it should not need upgrading at all. > >>> > >>> Also aspell-en is installed. > >>> > >>> Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in > >>> bugs.debian.org > >>> that seems to fit the bill. > >>> > >>> Any ideas? > >> > >> I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error > >> it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! > > > > when I do 'aptitude why' on that file, I get that it is a dependency of > > k3b, which is part of the upgrade. What happens if you do 'why'? > > see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721130 > > Hugo I am using apt-get not aptitude, and I don't think apt-get has a why option. But I will follow the bug with interest. Thanks David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201308281907.51599.david.goodeno...@btconnect.com
Re: dbus
Thank you, renaming .config doesn't change anything. The folder is not even re-created. I was not aware of the existance of this .config folder. There are not new files in there... Ionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828174814.ga12...@bucovina.chem.tue.nl
Re: losetup at boot
Hi ~ Happy install ! Cellphone : +51 950307809 Blog : http://piobox.blogspot.com/ LUG : http://www.utpinux.org Linux User ID : 549567 IRC: zerick About : http://about.me/zerick -- sı ɯǝ1qoɹd ɹnoʎ ʇɐɥʍ ǝǝs ı ʞuıɥʇ ı On 28 August 2013 04:25, basti wrote: > Hi, > what have you done until now? > I had a similar problem with postgres + shmmax the simple solution for me > was to edit the init script and set shmmax there. > > Me too. I had to edit DRBD's init script. What do you do for poweroff/reboot process? Do you know if it's safely unmounted or there's something to do before shuting down. Something like losetup -d Regards, > basti > > On 27.08.2013 22:59, Erick Ocrospoma wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm trying to do the same as here > http://askubuntu.com/questions/54970/how-to-set-up-a-loop-device-at-boot-timewith > no success, basically I've setup a block device attached to a loop > device, what I need is to load this one at boot. > > Not really sure if Upstart is fully supported, AFAIK there's also some > sysvinit scripts. Does anybody knows any other or functional way to make it > setup on boot? > > Not really sure, but running from /etc/rc.local could be not the answer, > I will use this loop device for DRBD, so I need it to be set before DRBD > starts, that's why I focused on using Upstart. > > > Thanks in advance! > > > ~ Happy install ! > > > > > Cellphone : +51 950307809 > Blog : http://piobox.blogspot.com/ > LUG : http://www.utpinux.org > Linux User ID : 549567 > IRC: zerick > About : http://about.me/zerick > > -- > sı ɯǝ1qoɹd ɹnoʎ ʇɐɥʍ ǝǝs ı ʞuıɥʇ ı > > >
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: David Goodenough wrote: I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency treeBut apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! when I do 'aptitude why' on that file, I get that it is a dependency of k3b, which is part of the upgrade. What happens if you do 'why'? see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721130 Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvlbah$42k$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
David Goodenough wrote: On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: David Goodenough wrote: I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree But apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! Hugo Well the script I run every morning does update then upgrade then dist-upgrade then auto-remove, so if it is the dist-upgrade then it has just done an upgrade, so I do not think that is going to help. I have just tried running an upgrade on its own, and it had nothing to do, and then a dist-upgrade which failed. So doing an upgrade does not help. Sorry for the false clue. And what when you do 'why'? Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvl94t$8j1$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: David Goodenough wrote: I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree But apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! when I do 'aptitude why' on that file, I get that it is a dependency of k3b, which is part of the upgrade. What happens if you do 'why'? Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvl8jt$2so$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
On Wednesday 28 Aug 2013, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > David Goodenough wrote: > > I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every > > morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- > > > > Calculating upgrade... Failed > > > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed > > or > > > >myspell-dictionary or > >aspell-dictionary or > >ispell-dictionary or > >hunspell-dictionary > > > > Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed > > > > E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be > > caused by held packages. > > Reading package lists... Done > > Building dependency tree > > > > But apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- > > > > Installed: 1.6.0-10 > > Candidate: 1.6.0-10 > > > > so it should not need upgrading at all. > > > > Also aspell-en is installed. > > > > Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in > > bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. > > > > Any ideas? > > I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error it > seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! > > Hugo Well the script I run every morning does update then upgrade then dist-upgrade then auto-remove, so if it is the dist-upgrade then it has just done an upgrade, so I do not think that is going to help. I have just tried running an upgrade on its own, and it had nothing to do, and then a dist-upgrade which failed. So doing an upgrade does not help. David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201308281724.15586.david.goodeno...@btconnect.com
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 11:46 -0400, Tom H wrote: > I use Ubuntu :) then you likely will run into the same issue like me and better pretend that you don not use the best distro for your needs, since Debian is the best distro for everybody. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377706738.705.121.camel@archlinux
Re: Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
Dear Conrad, Regarding the Debian's advantage and disadvantage, any one can point but comparing two persons, their ideology is not that simple. Richard stall man stood for a nobel cause. If he hasn't taken such a project called GNU, we may have used only freeBSD and its kernel and may not be Linux. This is because Linux is just a kernel. Kernel may be compared to brain of a OS but it is definitely useless without the other parts of the system. GNU can use BSD/hurd/Linux kernel and is working with all the three. Currently Debian is supplying all the three. I agree, Linux gained more fame but that doesn't mean, you can very well go and disrespect others. Richard just stresses the point, we will not be in a position to know what is being done by the proprietary software in your system. If you are willing to go with it, no body stops you. I would say better than skills, we should value other's ideology and their noble contributions. I am in no way arguing that Linus have done less. All good for the IT world. Cheers, Balamurugan R On 08/27/2013 08:37 PM, Conrad Nelson wrote: On 08/27/2013 07:22 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 11:55 +, Curt wrote: What a traitor (or not)! "arch traitor" ;) since I prefer Arch Linux and my explanations might be a "traitor's kiss", since I referred to the KISS principle. I am still a big Arch fan myself. But after a couple years I found myself drawn to Debian Testing as the Arch developers (ESPECIALLY Allan McRae, the current maintainer for Pacman.) have begun to take a fiercely arrogant attitude and a "we know better than you, so shut up" tone toward anyone who would question some of their decisions. The last couple major changes in Arch seemed like changes for changes sake as well (systemd, while I really do love it a lot, just doesn't seem to fit with how I understood Arch was supposed to work. And I still believe to this day that the old BSD-like sysv setup they had before was loads simpler to configure.) And I still don't understand the point of the lib/bin merges they are doing, aside from the fact it's a blatant violation of FHS. I used Gentoo for a bit, but its problem is the opposite of Arch: Whereas Arch is making pointless, unnecessary changes, Gentoo seems to be pretty stagnant and stuck in its ways. Gentoo actually is a distribution I actually think would benefit very well with systemd. OpenRC, though its goals are laudable, I've only ever seen it basically just become a sysv-init clone that accomplishes next to nothing new. My other gripe about Gentoo was it just got to be just too much work just for basic system upkeep. The USE flags were incredibly useful and powerful for customizing my packages and how my system would globally work, but all too often setting them globally would just result in Portage griping and refusing to install software, and setting USE flags individually per hundreds of packages is way too much work, effectively meaning Portage ended up getting in the way of what was supposed to be its own most powerful feature. I think Debian works pretty well. It's not as flexible or powerful as Arch or Gentoo, perhaps, but it's definitely better for servers than Arch or Gentoo. But it's not without its flaws. I think Debian's obsession with free software conformity is, indeed, a weakness. Before you blast me, I'm just going to point out I subscribe more to the Torvalds school of thought on open source, NOT the Stallman school. Richard Stallman over-politicizes/idealizes the idea of open source, tries to make it almost a moral/spiritual thing in a context and industry where moral/spiritual choice is as a whole, irrelevant and actually pretty counterproductive. For a long time (Until recently, in fact.), Debian desktop users had to use third party repositories just to get decent multimedia support into Debian. Why? Because Debian developers questioned whether over half of the codecs most people needed were "free" enough. I think my opinion is made worse by the fact I just plain do not like Richard Stallman both as a person or as a representative of the FOSS world. And despite all of Debian's good faith efforts to try to conform with Richard's idea of what "free" means he still basically regards Debian (And pretty much all Linux.) with contempt. This is probably less to do with whether or not Debian complies with his "free" ideas and more for the fact the guy is pedal-to-the-metal bitter and oh-so-very jealous that Linux succeeded in every place GNU failed (Such as actually being an operating system.), which is why he insists on the "GNU/Linux" moniker, which is utter nonsense (Using the GNU toolchain doesn't magically make Linux GNU, and he uses some of the most insane logic to try and justify a pretty transparent attempt to take credit for Linux's success from those who actually DID make Linux a success. It is a crying shame the Debian people, in their
Re: apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
David Goodenough wrote: I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree But apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? I get that with dist-upgrade and not with upgrade. Googling the error it seems that doing upgrade will resolve that. But I haven't tried that! Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kvl78k$hms$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: xfce4 and CD/DVD
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 17:21 +0200, François Patte wrote: > As Ralph says, problem is solved for kde and even gnome (gvfs used by thunar > comes from > gnome stuff, no?) and not for xfce... I don't want to install kde or > gnome, it is too expensive for such a problem Here we experience one of the great Debian advantages, split packages, http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=gvfsd The package that has to be installed is named gvfs-daemons. If you want to know what gvfsd did or didn't, run strace /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd after you inserted a DVD. strace is available by a package named strace, regarding to http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=wheezy§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=strace Perhaps it isn't gvfsd but something else ;) and even if the issue should be caused by gvfsd, at least I do understand less of a strace output, that's why I got help by another user, to find out what by gvfs does kill external "green" drives. FWIW neither the expert who helps me nor I use gvfs ourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377705529.705.114.camel@archlinux
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:31:14 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > Join the jackd devel mailing list archive. It's not that I had issues > with a broken Debian package, since I build my own packages, it's about > breaking something that does work when build from upstream, but not when > maintainers split it to packages and confuse how to link libs. If you want to replace a Debian repo package with a package from upstream sources, you can find out what packages are derived from the uptream tarball with 'aptitude search "?source-package(source_package_name)"' and pin them to -1. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521e1e21.1080...@gmail.com
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:30:07 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Fedora/RedHat has strict libre adherence for since forever. Debian has > social contract forever. > > These advantages are definitive! > > These distributions are therefore superior! They are definitively better! > > Debian has >40,000 software packages, more than any other, and makes > Debian definitively better than other distros. So even on utility > metric, Debian is better! > > Debian runs on >12 architectures. Definitively better! > > Pick your metric Ralph! Ralph might have different metrics than you do. I certainly have. For example, for my parents' laptops, I couldn't care less about strict libre adherence, Debian's social contract, 40k packages, or non-x86 architectures. All that I care about is that I can install a distro and set it up as quickly and easily as possible (including any needed proprietary software), so I use Ubuntu. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521e1b3a.4060...@gmail.com
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 11:19 -0400, Tom H wrote: > You should read the Colin Watson post (linked to on Slashdot) rather > than simply going by the sensationalist headline and paragraph. I did read it. I accept the policies of Debian and Ubuntu ;). I'm aware about their advantages and their drawbacks and I'm aware about the advantages and drawbacks of distros with other policies. Ok, I understand that my opinion that Debian only is a good distro, but that there is no best distro is unwanted. I agree with all of you, Debian is the best distro and regarding to the above quote, yes including this to Ubuntu and seemingly the same idea Lennert has got, is very good. I'm completely mistaken. Debian is the best distro! Nothing can compare to Debian! Desktop environments and package managements should take more care about tablet PC and less about real production environments. Anything else I should say to satisfy Debian users mailing list? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377704319.705.101.camel@archlinux
Re: xfce4 and CD/DVD
Le 28/08/2013 16:03, Curt a écrit : > On 2013-08-27, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 17:55 +0200, François Patte wrote: >>> Why not windows? >> >> I at least have to use XP as guest in VBox on a Linux install :D or I >> couldn't use an iPad I one and the iPad is very useful for me to avoid >> to buy ink for the printer and I can write a shell script for my Linux >> PC without the need to sit im my music room. > > Yes but the op's quite whiny I feel these days and this being open > source I'm surprised no one has piped up to suggest he fix the software > quirks he keeps discovering himself, as he seems to have the credentials > to do so, if maybe not the time, although from what I've heard about the > CNRS ... CNRS deals with various research fields, including computer sciences, but I am only a mathematician, and a sanskritist, and I cannot fix this unless some people give me some clues... What I don't understand is why I can read questions about this bug since 2009/10 and no solution has been found up to now... As Ralph says, problem is solved for kde and even gnome (gvfs used by thunar comes from gnome stuff, no?) and not for xfce... I don't want to install kde or gnome, it is too expensive for such a problem (irritating though). -- François Patte UFR de mathématiques et informatique Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 Université Paris Descartes 45, rue des Saints Pères F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:05:34 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 11:56 +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
>>
>>
http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/2038243/ubuntu-developing-its-own-package-format-installer
>
> Wow, thank you for the link. Than Ubuntu in the future will cause much
> more issues, when you talk to upstream, than they already do by their
> disgusting policy to split packages nowadays.
You should read the Colin Watson post (linked to on Slashdot) rather
than simply going by the sensationalist headline and paragraph.
The last line of the Slashdot post even points out that Ubuntu doesn't
intend this package installer to replace dpkg and apt.
If you read the ubuntu-devel post you'll see "the priority for this
system at present is for Ubuntu phone/tablet app packages."
Imagine that I have Ubuntu on my phone and that you have a music
application that you want to install. Do you really think that I'd want
you to sprinkle files all over my filesystem or would I want you to
install to "/apps/ralph/music-app/{bin,lib,...}"?
Ubuntu splits packages because Debian does. And Debian splits packages
for various reasons.
In the case of nfs, Debian splits upstream's nfs-utils into nfs-common
and nfs-kernel-server. The reason for this is that Debian's policy is to
start a daemon automatically if it's installed. So you install
nfs-common is you just want an nfs client and you install both if you
want an nfs server. On RHEL/Fedora, you install nfs-utils and if you
want to use the nfs server you run chkconfig and service or systemctl to
enable and start it.
In the case of grub, Debian splits uptream's grub into many packages.
On my EFI laptop:
# dpkg-query -W -f '${Status}\t${Package}\n' grub* | grep ^install
install ok installedgrub-common
install ok installedgrub-efi
install ok installedgrub-efi-amd64
install ok installedgrub-efi-amd64-bin
install ok installedgrub2-common
Had I had a BIOS laptop, I would've had grub-pc rather than three
grub-efi packages.
grub-common is a dependency of both grub1 and grub2 (bizarrely in the
case of grub1 since it seems to install grub2 files).
grub2-common is a dependency of grub-efi-amd4, grub-efi-ia32, and grub-pc.
grub-efi is a dummy package.
I'm not sure why grub-efi-amd64 and grub-efi-amd64-bin are separate
packages, probably because grub-efi-amd64-bin installs grub modules only.
When you choose a distro, you implicitly accept its policies...
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Re: Problems with nVidia proprietary driver
On 2013-08-26, Lisi Reisz wrote: > I read the postings fairly recently on this list, then Googled and found: > > https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#configure > > I decided to follow that. I also followed the trouble-shooting recommended. > > I have checked and as a result of what I did, the following package is > definitely installed. (It is recommended.) > http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/nvidia-kernel-common So you installed the kernel headers for the running kernel, the nvidia-kernel-dkms package, the nvidia-glx package, ran 'update-initramfs -u' to update the ramdisk to include the blacklisted nouveau module, created an xorg.conf file with the appropriate content, and rebooted the machine? > At present I have been offered a CLI login and have logged in as root. > > I was able to: > > cat /var/log//Xorg.0.log > > but I could not pipe to less (or more!) because I couldn't find the pipe. > Googling seemed to suggest that the American pipe was on a key in a position > that does not exist on my keyboards, which wasn't very helpful. You don't need cat: less /var/log/Xorg.0.log -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnl1s3cd.2o8.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: xfce4 and CD/DVD
On 2013-08-27, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 17:55 +0200, François Patte wrote: >> Why not windows? > > I at least have to use XP as guest in VBox on a Linux install :D or I > couldn't use an iPad I one and the iPad is very useful for me to avoid > to buy ink for the printer and I can write a shell script for my Linux > PC without the need to sit im my music room. Yes but the op's quite whiny I feel these days and this being open source I'm surprised no one has piped up to suggest he fix the software quirks he keeps discovering himself, as he seems to have the credentials to do so, if maybe not the time, although from what I've heard about the CNRS ... :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnl1s0qa.2ge.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 08:59 -0400, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:31:14 +0200 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > > However, I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY. > > > > (snip again) > > > > Thank you, thank you, thank you... Did you contribute to help the OP to stay with Debian? Did you contribute for other topics much? No you didn't! I did help a little bit more than you did. Your comment is inappropriate. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377698161.705.76.camel@archlinux
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 14:31:14 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > (snip) > > However, I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY. > > (snip again) > Thank you, thank you, thank you... -- cmg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828085907.3b2ac5df.cgrigs...@att.net
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 00:11 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 11:09:48AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > Wow, thank you for the link. Than Ubuntu in the future will cause much > > > more issues, when you talk to upstream, than they already do by their > > Ubuntu and Debian > > > disgusting policy to split packages nowadays. > > It's not disgusting! > > > Reminds me to the running gag with the very often broken libjackd link > > in the past years. > > If you find a bug and don't report it, then it is not fair to "moan and > groan" about it. Join the jackd devel mailing list archive. It's not that I had issues with a broken Debian package, since I build my own packages, it's about breaking something that does work when build from upstream, but not when maintainers split it to packages and confuse how to link libs. In the last years I guess Debian packages for jackd are ok, it's an example why split packages is disgusting. And I already pointed out, that it also has an advantage to split packages. My intend was to explain that Debian is a good distro, but no distro is the best distro, since it depends to the usage. However, I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY. When you think that there is a best distro and all other distros are crap and if you think everything Debian does is even better than what upstream does, than you're free to believe this, it just not true. Btw. it's hard to file a bug to upstream when Debian is years behind stable releases from upstream, you only can ask the package maintainers to correct something, but AGAIN, 'm talking about something completely different. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377693074.705.33.camel@archlinux
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Wed, 2013-08-28 at 21:04 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 01:29:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency hell > > or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and developers > > need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes newer releases > > than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't provide a stable branch > > that is up-to-date, in sync with stable releases from upstream, even the > > unstable branches of Debian don't provide this. > > Your confusion over the words "stable" and "unstable" certainly doesn't > help here. Does that paragraph really make sense to you? > > Hint: unstable does not mean buggy. This isn't about "Debian stable" and "Debian unstable", it's about the need to have an environment that has got the needed stable releases from upstream installed. You need this, when you e.g. want to contribute to large projects such as GNOME or some other projects that depends on tons of libraries. As I already explained, even "Debian experimental" does not comes with the current stable branches from upstream. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377692243.705.23.camel@archlinux
Re: oh no something is definitely wrong adieu debian.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 11:09:48AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > Wow, thank you for the link. Than Ubuntu in the future will cause much > > more issues, when you talk to upstream, than they already do by their > Ubuntu and Debian > > disgusting policy to split packages nowadays. It's not disgusting! > Reminds me to the running gag with the very often broken libjackd link > in the past years. If you find a bug and don't report it, then it is not fair to "moan and groan" about it. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828121145.GC8086@tal
Re: dbus
Hi I had this issue on time if I'm remember well, I had to remove the .config directory I think. Regards Diog. On 08/28/2013 06:52 PM, Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă wrote: Hi, After squeeze => wheezy upgrade I can't login at kdm. After I type the password I am logged out. I try several wm, it is the same. I commented out most of the things in .xsession, everything is executed before the wm call. I can't find errors in .xsession-errors and also not in Xorg.0.log. In kdm.log I found this: | klauncher(16137) kdemain: No DBUS session-bus found. Check if you have started the DBUS server. | kdeinit4: Communication error with launcher. Exiting! | kdmgreet(16130)/kdecore (K*TimeZone*): KSystemTimeZones: ktimezoned initialize() D-Bus call failed: "Not connected to D-Bus server" | | kdmgreet(16130)/kdecore (K*TimeZone*): No time zone information obtained from ktimezoned There are no (EE) errors in kdm.log. dbus is running just fine. I restarted it with no help. I reinstalled nvidia (both debian way and nvidia way). I also reinstalled dbus (dbus-x11, dbus and libdbus-1-3). Nothing helps. All users have this issue, even root. Even when I login at the console and type startx I am still logged out. I renamed .Xauthority, still no help. I spend few hours googling out the kdeinit4 and dbus error. I could not find anything that come close to my situation. I am out of ideas. Anyone? Thank you for any hint. Ionel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/521de98b.9070...@yahoo.fr
dbus
Hi, After squeeze => wheezy upgrade I can't login at kdm. After I type the password I am logged out. I try several wm, it is the same. I commented out most of the things in .xsession, everything is executed before the wm call. I can't find errors in .xsession-errors and also not in Xorg.0.log. In kdm.log I found this: | klauncher(16137) kdemain: No DBUS session-bus found. Check if you have started the DBUS server. | kdeinit4: Communication error with launcher. Exiting! | kdmgreet(16130)/kdecore (K*TimeZone*): KSystemTimeZones: ktimezoned initialize() D-Bus call failed: "Not connected to D-Bus server" | | kdmgreet(16130)/kdecore (K*TimeZone*): No time zone information obtained from ktimezoned There are no (EE) errors in kdm.log. dbus is running just fine. I restarted it with no help. I reinstalled nvidia (both debian way and nvidia way). I also reinstalled dbus (dbus-x11, dbus and libdbus-1-3). Nothing helps. All users have this issue, even root. Even when I login at the console and type startx I am still logged out. I renamed .Xauthority, still no help. I spend few hours googling out the kdeinit4 and dbus error. I could not find anything that come close to my situation. I am out of ideas. Anyone? Thank you for any hint. Ionel -- Dr. Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă Phone: + 31 (0)40 2473008 Principal Scientist Fax: + 31 (0)40 2455054 Sasol Technology Netherlands BV e-mail: i.m.ciob...@tue.nl Eindhoven University of Technology or: ionel.ciob...@sasol.com IMC, Helix W 4.46, P.O. Box 513, 5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828115255.ga4...@bucovina.chem.tue.nl
Choose a reliable suppier for aluminum
Good day Sir/Madam: How to be the leader of the aluminum market? Choose a reliable suppier! Therefore ,I suggest you should consider import aluminum profiles from us: 1. We Are the well-known brand in China and produce more than 10 tons of aluminum profiles each year. 2. We can provide you with competitive prices, excellent quality, good service, financial support to be the leader of the market. Please kindly give me a reply. Best Regards Tom Tang ** Foshan YaoYinShan Aluminum Co., Ltd Add: No. 33, 35 Chang Gang Rd. GengHe Town GaoMing District Foshan, Guangdong Province, China Tel: +86-757-86302683 Mob: +86-18988643298 E-mail: t...@alu-yys.com
apt-get upgrade problem with libenchant1c2a
I have a sacrificial machine that I keep upto date with sid every morning. Yesterday and today I get an error:- Calculating upgrade... Failed The following packages have unmet dependencies: libenchant1c2a : Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed or myspell-dictionary or aspell-dictionary or ispell-dictionary or hunspell-dictionary Recommends: enchant but it is not going to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree But apt-cache policy libenchant1c2a says:- Installed: 1.6.0-10 Candidate: 1.6.0-10 so it should not need upgrading at all. Also aspell-en is installed. Is this related to Ubuntu bug #1096669? There is nothing in bugs.debian.org that seems to fit the bill. Any ideas? David -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201308281130.46809.david.goodeno...@btconnect.com
Re: losetup at boot
Hi, what have you done until now? I had a similar problem with postgres + shmmax the simple solution for me was to edit the init script and set shmmax there. Regards, basti On 27.08.2013 22:59, Erick Ocrospoma wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to do the same as here > http://askubuntu.com/questions/54970/how-to-set-up-a-loop-device-at-boot-time > with no success, basically I've setup a block device attached to a > loop device, what I need is to load this one at boot. > > Not really sure if Upstart is fully supported, AFAIK there's also some > sysvinit scripts. Does anybody knows any other or functional way to > make it setup on boot? > > Not really sure, but running from /etc/rc.local could be not the > answer, I will use this loop device for DRBD, so I need it to be set > before DRBD starts, that's why I focused on using Upstart. > > > Thanks in advance! > > > ~ Happy install ! > > > > > Cellphone : +51 950307809 > Blog : http://piobox.blogspot.com/ > LUG : http://www.utpinux.org > Linux User ID : 549567 > IRC: zerick > About : http://about.me/zerick > > -- > sı ɯǝ1qoɹd ɹnoʎ ʇɐɥʍ ǝǝs ı ʞuıɥʇ ı
Re: oh no something is definitly wrong adieu debian.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 01:29:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I explained that you can't do that, if you experience a dependency hell > or an unstable environment. To contribute that way users and developers > need stable up-to-date releases of software + sometimes newer releases > than the current stable releases. Debian doesn't provide a stable branch > that is up-to-date, in sync with stable releases from upstream, even the > unstable branches of Debian don't provide this. Your confusion over the words "stable" and "unstable" certainly doesn't help here. Does that paragraph really make sense to you? Hint: unstable does not mean buggy. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130828090440.GB8086@tal
