Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
One of the issues in the operation of an auto tuner, is that it has to transmit enough power to be rectified by silicon diodes detecting and operating in a linear manner. Also, you have to transmit enough power to break down the oxides on connectors, RF switches, antenna connections and anything else in the Antenna circuit before you get enough conduction to look like the higher transmitter power action on the Antenna circuit. Thus, there is a lower limit on the detection and effectiveness of the RF source used to tune the antenna tuner while making the changes in tuner adjustment easily detected and not too "touchy". The ideal is to have enough power used that you have a nice peak to the detected signal, and a smooth slope up and down around it for the peak detection to work well. -Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Hi Geoff, I'd add one more option/possibility: one suitable for remote (at the antenna) mounting. Keep the kit form option. It's a very easy build. cheers, Julius n2wn --- Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Julius, > Thanks for the fill in. I still have not received > the early postings h. > Strange, I just sent Eric and Wayne a wish for the > >KAT100 and that is for a > "Silent" antenna coupler that does not require watts > to be radiated during > tune, but only a few milliwatts. It would provide > "for free" a dummy load, > not only for testing but also a "default" load for > the TX when the antenna > falls down. Like you I would much prefer a meter, I > do not like the LEDs at > all as a VSWR indicator to be honest. Fine for > "status" indicators.Ability > to bypass coupler, Yes. > CU off list re antennas. > 73, > Geoff. > GM4ESD > > > > > 'ello Geoff, > > We're discussing the "wish list" for an updated > > KAT100, or modifying the current version. I show > my > > advanced decrepitude by waxing philosophically > about > > adding a power out/SWR METER. LEDs are fine, but I > > just prefer a meter! > > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Hi Julius, Thanks for the fill in. I still have not received the early postings h. Strange, I just sent Eric and Wayne a wish for the >KAT100 and that is for a "Silent" antenna coupler that does not require watts to be radiated during tune, but only a few milliwatts. It would provide "for free" a dummy load, not only for testing but also a "default" load for the TX when the antenna falls down. Like you I would much prefer a meter, I do not like the LEDs at all as a VSWR indicator to be honest. Fine for "status" indicators.Ability to bypass coupler, Yes. CU off list re antennas. 73, Geoff. GM4ESD > 'ello Geoff, > We're discussing the "wish list" for an updated > KAT100, or modifying the current version. I show my > advanced decrepitude by waxing philosophically about > adding a power out/SWR METER. LEDs are fine, but I > just prefer a meter! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Bob, It's worth looking at when I have a spare moment... You definitely wouldn't enjoy working for the National Lab system, simple does not exist in this world! Cheers, Julius n2wn --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I would suppose that a simple pot would allow one to > calibrate to 100 uA, assuming the source could > provide at > least that much current. I'm always looking for the > simplest > solution possible. I hate complexity for > complixity's sake :-) > 73, Bob N6WG > > -- Original message -- > > > Bob, > > That's a good point. I suppose if you knew that > 100W > > should provide say 100 uA, you could use a Bird 43 > to > > develop a scale for the meter. Maybe moving the > KAT > > into an EC2, finding a meter that fits the front > panel > > would accomplish this in a neat package. > > 73, > > Julius > > n2wn > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > I wonder whether a simple phono connector on the > > > > rear of the rig > > > or ATU wouldn't give access to an alalog voltage > > > > line. It could be used > > > with an external meter for tuning indications. > > > Calibration would still be a question, I > suppose. > > > 73, Bob N6WG > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > I agree, the bypass would be a welcome > addition. > > > I'd > > > > also like to see a meter. It's nice to see > power > > > out > > > > and SWR. LEDs are fine, but a meter is a more > > > powerful > > > > tool IMHO.(OK, Digital readout may be > acceptable, > > > but > > > > not as instantaneous as a meter). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Julius > > > > n2wn > > > > > ___ > > > > Elecraft mailing list > > > > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub > etc.): > > > > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > > > > > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > > > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
I would suppose that a simple pot would allow one to calibrate to 100 uA, assuming the source could provide at least that much current. I'm always looking for the simplest solution possible. I hate complexity for complixity's sake :-) 73, Bob N6WG -- Original message -- > Bob, > That's a good point. I suppose if you knew that 100W > should provide say 100 uA, you could use a Bird 43 to > develop a scale for the meter. Maybe moving the KAT > into an EC2, finding a meter that fits the front panel > would accomplish this in a neat package. > 73, > Julius > n2wn > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I wonder whether a simple phono connector on the > > rear of the rig > > or ATU wouldn't give access to an alalog voltage > > line. It could be used > > with an external meter for tuning indications. > > Calibration would still be a question, I suppose. > > 73, Bob N6WG > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > I agree, the bypass would be a welcome addition. > > I'd > > > also like to see a meter. It's nice to see power > > out > > > and SWR. LEDs are fine, but a meter is a more > > powerful > > > tool IMHO.(OK, Digital readout may be acceptable, > > but > > > not as instantaneous as a meter). > > > Cheers, > > > Julius > > > n2wn > > > ___ > > > Elecraft mailing list > > > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Bob, That's a good point. I suppose if you knew that 100W should provide say 100 uA, you could use a Bird 43 to develop a scale for the meter. Maybe moving the KAT into an EC2, finding a meter that fits the front panel would accomplish this in a neat package. 73, Julius n2wn --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I wonder whether a simple phono connector on the > rear of the rig > or ATU wouldn't give access to an alalog voltage > line. It could be used > with an external meter for tuning indications. > Calibration would still be a question, I suppose. > 73, Bob N6WG > > > > Steve, > > > > I agree, the bypass would be a welcome addition. > I'd > > also like to see a meter. It's nice to see power > out > > and SWR. LEDs are fine, but a meter is a more > powerful > > tool IMHO.(OK, Digital readout may be acceptable, > but > > not as instantaneous as a meter). > > Cheers, > > Julius > > n2wn > > ___ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
I wonder whether a simple phono connector on the rear of the rig or ATU wouldn't give access to an alalog voltage line. It could be used with an external meter for tuning indications. Calibration would still be a question, I suppose. 73, Bob N6WG > Steve, > > I agree, the bypass would be a welcome addition. I'd > also like to see a meter. It's nice to see power out > and SWR. LEDs are fine, but a meter is a more powerful > tool IMHO.(OK, Digital readout may be acceptable, but > not as instantaneous as a meter). > Cheers, > Julius > n2wn > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Steve, I agree, the bypass would be a welcome addition. I'd also like to see a meter. It's nice to see power out and SWR. LEDs are fine, but a meter is a more powerful tool IMHO.(OK, Digital readout may be acceptable, but not as instantaneous as a meter). Cheers, Julius n2wn ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
I own several tuners to operate other equipment, which I must sadly admit I own, and Elecraft tuners outperform, IMHO, all of them! Bill WR Johnson 920-421-1172 -Original Message- Three reasons: 1. (obvious) the integrated, automatic pre-setting-per-antenna-per-VFO function, and the (also obvious) dual antenna jack feature ... just way too useful to not have. 2. (not so obvious) the LDG and most other relay-type autotuners stop diddling the Ls and Cs when the indicated VSWR ratio gets to a place where they decide it's OK. The Elecraft tuning algorithm is recursive, "passing" the implicit null(s) and finding the "real" one. Once you have this feature, you won't go back. 3. (also not obvious) the Elecraft autotuners do a better job matching the odd, and often abruptly high impedances of field antennas, than the LDG or the SGC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners - "the ability to mount themremotely"
Gary, Specs would also need to address possible RFI problems caused by MUX etc, transmit and receive. Can be a problem if design is skimpy, electrically and mechanical. But great idea, if relays don't wake neighbours. 73, Geoff. GM4ESD - Original Message - From: "Gary Hvizdak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:32 PM Subject: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners - "the ability to mount themremotely" Darrell, That's a fine idea. Would it be feasible for such a remote tuner to have a local MUX/encoder/sending unit so the power and control signals could all be provided via a single coax line? The specifications would need to address maximum cable runs for RG-58 and RG-8. -- Gary, KI4GGX K2 #4067 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Steve Jackson wrote: it's OK. The Elecraft tuning algorithm is recursive, "passing" the implicit null(s) and finding the "real" one. Once you have this feature, you won't go back. Could you elaborate on this point? The only thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is a bypass function. Uhm, KXAT1 for the KX1 has this feature, carefully "disguised" as calibration (though the manual clearly states it can be used to bypass the internal ATU when working with an external one). Isn't there anything like that, perhaps, in the other tuners? B73, Andrea. -- Homepage: http://andrea.borgia.bo.it /Amateur radio: IZ4FHT A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners - "the ability to mount them remotely"
Yes, an option that fits where the KAT2 or KAT100-2 would go and that would convert the auxbus, and whatever other power and control signals would be needed, onto the coax to the remote tuner. Be nice to have the best of both worlds, a tuner in the K2 and a remote tuner as well. Or at least an antenna connection at the K2 for resonant antennas and the antenna connection for the remote tuner. 300 feet would be a good maximum distance for me. I know this thread has been discussed before, so I won't belabor the point, but, how about it Eric and Wayne: a KATR2 and KATR100 (The "R" standing for Remote)? Darrell VA7TO On February 6, 2005 11:32 am, Gary Hvizdak wrote: > Darrell, > > That's a fine idea. Would it be feasible for such a remote tuner to > have a > local MUX/encoder/sending unit so the power and control signals could all > be provided via a single coax line? The specifications would need to > address maximum cable runs for RG-58 and RG-8. > -- > Gary, KI4GGX > K2 #4067 > > > Well said Steve! > The only other thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is the ability to > mount > them remotely. A Elecraft remote tuner would be just plain wonderful! > Darrell > VA7TO > -- Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Stations: VA7TO, VE7CLA Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners - "the ability to mount them remotely"
Darrell, That's a fine idea. Would it be feasible for such a remote tuner to have a local MUX/encoder/sending unit so the power and control signals could all be provided via a single coax line? The specifications would need to address maximum cable runs for RG-58 and RG-8. -- Gary, KI4GGX K2 #4067 Well said Steve! The only other thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is the ability to mount them remotely. A Elecraft remote tuner would be just plain wonderful! Darrell VA7TO On February 6, 2005 7:48 am, Steve Jackson wrote: > I like the guys in Maryland who make these fine units. > However, I sold mine, in favor of the Elecraft > tuners. : : > The only thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is a > bypass function. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
Well said Steve! The only other thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is the ability to mount them remotely. A Elecraft remote tuner would be just plain wonderful! Darrell VA7TO On February 6, 2005 7:48 am, Steve Jackson wrote: > I like the guys in Maryland who make these fine units. > However, I sold mine, in favor of the Elecraft > tuners. > > Why? > > Three reasons: > > 1. (obvious) the integrated, automatic > pre-setting-per-antenna-per-VFO function, and the > (also obvious) dual antenna jack feature ... just way > too useful to not have. > > 2. (not so obvious) the LDG and most other relay-type > autotuners stop diddling the Ls and Cs when the > indicated VSWR ratio gets to a place where they decide > it's OK. The Elecraft tuning algorithm is recursive, > "passing" the implicit null(s) and finding the "real" > one. Once you have this feature, you won't go back. > > 3. (also not obvious) the Elecraft autotuners do a > better job matching the odd, and often abruptly high > impedances of field antennas, than the LDG or the SGC > (except the SGC-237 and -239). > > Eric and Wayne could probably afford to be a bit less > humble about the advantages of their tuners vs. the > other guys. Indeed, it's been suggested, more than > once, to make a version of the Elecraft KAT100 tuner > suitable for use by non-Elecrafters. > > Whoever THEY are! ;-) > > The only thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is a > bypass function. > -- Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Stations: VA7TO, VE7CLA Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] on the topic of autotuners
>> I am considering using an LDG AT-100Pro or >> LDG Z-100 tuner with my K-2. I like the guys in Maryland who make these fine units. However, I sold mine, in favor of the Elecraft tuners. Why? Three reasons: 1. (obvious) the integrated, automatic pre-setting-per-antenna-per-VFO function, and the (also obvious) dual antenna jack feature ... just way too useful to not have. 2. (not so obvious) the LDG and most other relay-type autotuners stop diddling the Ls and Cs when the indicated VSWR ratio gets to a place where they decide it's OK. The Elecraft tuning algorithm is recursive, "passing" the implicit null(s) and finding the "real" one. Once you have this feature, you won't go back. 3. (also not obvious) the Elecraft autotuners do a better job matching the odd, and often abruptly high impedances of field antennas, than the LDG or the SGC (except the SGC-237 and -239). Eric and Wayne could probably afford to be a bit less humble about the advantages of their tuners vs. the other guys. Indeed, it's been suggested, more than once, to make a version of the Elecraft KAT100 tuner suitable for use by non-Elecrafters. Whoever THEY are! ;-) The only thing missing from the Elecraft tuners is a bypass function. >> Also, I operate CW almost exclusively, >> what other K-2 options would folks suggest. The KAF2 is superb, pretty much a must-have option. With all due respect to Lyle (and I do use his DSP *magic* in other projects) the KAF2 is better than the KDSP2 for CW only work, IMHO. Oh, and that Elecraft HexKey, a great bargain, looks awfully nice! But Mr. Piggybank says I will keep on truckin' with my Portland, ME vintage Vibroplex Iambic Standard. It's neat that the gray base of this classic key looks like it came from Aptos. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
