RE: ENV 50121-5
I am a little miffed at the cost of some of these standards! The preview as some have suggested is a great idea. Here in the US the government published Mil-Standards. These standards were created with taxpayer monies and therefore were available from the government printing office for the cost of printing. With the invention of the Internet by Al Gore many of these standards are available totally free. Recently I have been seeking standards concerning fasteners and it appears the government is getting out of the standard business and giving the document to a independent organization who in turn will charge me for something I have already paid for..go figure. I wonder sometimes were this is leading, Are we going to be faced in our personal lives with pay per view government rules! Judd -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 4:45 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: ENV 50121-5 I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Chileshe wrote (in <01c13783.174ab520.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Fri, 7 Sep 2001: >I agree that the scope should be in the public domain so we can >verify relevance before committing to purchase. I for one really >wouldn't mind spending a whole day (week even!) reading the >various scopes if I know that the decisions I will make about >which standards to purchase, will be correct. As things stand at the >moment, I spend that week waiting for the wrong standard to arrive in >the post! I have at times resorted to a trip to the local public library >to check on the scope but even that has taken a whole day because >I keep *asking* for the wrong standards based on what I thought would >be the applicable standard. > >Finding the right standard really should be a lot more straightforward. > >Is there anything we can do about this? Yes. Since you are in UK, write to the Director of Standards at BSI and put your point to him. In other countries, write to the appropriate official in your national standards body. Support letters from individuals and companies with letters from trade associations. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that rehel...@mmm.com wrote (in ) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Fri, 7 Sep 2001: >John, I totally agree with Chris and you. In addition to the "scope", I >would like to add that a brief >description of an amendment to a standard should be made available. These are available for SOME amendments on the public part of the IEC web site http://www.iec.ch -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Chileshe wrote (in <01c13783.174ab520.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Fri, 7 Sep 2001: >I agree that the scope should be in the public domain so we can >verify relevance before committing to purchase. I for one really >wouldn't mind spending a whole day (week even!) reading the >various scopes if I know that the decisions I will make about >which standards to purchase, will be correct. As things stand at the >moment, I spend that week waiting for the wrong standard to arrive in >the post! I have at times resorted to a trip to the local public library >to check on the scope but even that has taken a whole day because >I keep *asking* for the wrong standards based on what I thought would >be the applicable standard. > >Finding the right standard really should be a lot more straightforward. > >Is there anything we can do about this? Yes. Since you are in UK, write to the Director of Standards at BSI and put your point to him. In other countries, write to the appropriate official in your national standards body. Support letters from individuals and companies with letters from trade associations. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
John, I totally agree with Chris and you. In addition to the "scope", I
would like to add that a brief
description of an amendment to a standard should be made available.
I will not be at the IEC meeting but if there is a manner in which you
think that I can provide
support, don't hesitate to ask.
Bob Heller
3M Product Safety, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel: 651- 778-6336
Fax: 651-778-6252
===
John Woodgate
cc: (bcc: Robert E.
Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US)
Subject: Re: ENV 50121-5
09/06/2001
04:36 PM
Please respond
to John
Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell wrote
(in <83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaa675...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com>)
about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001:
> The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any
>standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of
>the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever).
>There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite
>violations because they share the scope statement from a standard.
>Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough.
I agree. The IEC web site does have a lot of information in the public
area, but not the actual Scope clauses. If an opportunity arises at the
IEC General Meeting in Firenze in October, I will raise the matter. I
call on anyone else who will be there to consider supporting the
proposal that the Scope clauses should be publicly available.
>
>We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products.
>However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they
>would apply; but really don't.
Indeed; this creates unnecessary and destructive aversion.
>
>I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why
>we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards
>applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75
>standard.
I tend to compare the cost of the standard with the cost of the POS
material that is binned!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!
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RE: ENV 50121-5
On the matter of the scopes of the standards being made readily available John writes .. >> If an opportunity arises at the IEC General Meeting in Firenze in >> October, I will raise the matter. I call on anyone else who will be >> there to consider supporting the proposal that the Scope clauses >> should be publicly available. Hear! Hear! ... - Chris Chileshe - Ultronics Ltd - http://www.ultronics.com -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: ENV 50121-5 I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell wrote (in <83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaa675...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: > The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any >standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of >the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). >There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite >violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. >Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. I agree. The IEC web site does have a lot of information in the public area, but not the actual Scope clauses. If an opportunity arises at the IEC General Meeting in Firenze in October, I will raise the matter. I call on anyone else who will be there to consider supporting the proposal that the Scope clauses should be publicly available. > >We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. >However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they >would apply; but really don't. Indeed; this creates unnecessary and destructive aversion. > >I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why >we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards >applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 >standard. I tend to compare the cost of the standard with the cost of the POS material that is binned! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: ENV 50121-5
Chris Maxwell writes... >> However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like >> they would apply; but really don't. Just had a dose of that myself last week!! I agree that the scope should be in the public domain so we can verify relevance before committing to purchase. I for one really wouldn't mind spending a whole day (week even!) reading the various scopes if I know that the decisions I will make about which standards to purchase, will be correct. As things stand at the moment, I spend that week waiting for the wrong standard to arrive in the post! I have at times resorted to a trip to the local public library to check on the scope but even that has taken a whole day because I keep *asking* for the wrong standards based on what I thought would be the applicable standard. Finding the right standard really should be a lot more straightforward. Is there anything we can do about this? - Chris Chileshe - Ultronics Ltd - http://www.ultronics.com -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [SMTP:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:31 PM To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ENV 50121-5 Hi John, I agree with your view; which I understand to be. 1. Nobody can paraphrase an entire standard in a email without huge chances for error... and 2. A company should buy the standard if they plan on using it. This reminds me of a thorn in my side which I hope will get the attention of those that deal in standards. I know I have a reputation for being "stumpish", so I'll keep it short. The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they would apply; but really don't. I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 standard. (definitely not the opinions of my employer...) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:56 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Re: ENV 50121-5 > > > I read in !emc-pstc that Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) > wrote (in > 550...@vacho6misge.cho.ge.com>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep > 2001: > >I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. > > What does it cover? > > Railway applications. Electromagnetic compatibility. Fixed > installations. > > >What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? > > What you are effectively asking for is the whole text of the standard. > Not sensible, not possible. Pay your USD75 or so for it. > -- > Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. > http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk > Eat mink and be dreary! > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.or
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell wrote (in <83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaa675...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: > The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any >standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of >the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). >There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite >violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. >Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. I agree. The IEC web site does have a lot of information in the public area, but not the actual Scope clauses. If an opportunity arises at the IEC General Meeting in Firenze in October, I will raise the matter. I call on anyone else who will be there to consider supporting the proposal that the Scope clauses should be publicly available. > >We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. >However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they >would apply; but really don't. Indeed; this creates unnecessary and destructive aversion. > >I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why >we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards >applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 >standard. I tend to compare the cost of the standard with the cost of the POS material that is binned! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: ENV 50121-5
Hi John, I agree with your view; which I understand to be. 1. Nobody can paraphrase an entire standard in a email without huge chances for error... and 2. A company should buy the standard if they plan on using it. This reminds me of a thorn in my side which I hope will get the attention of those that deal in standards. I know I have a reputation for being "stumpish", so I'll keep it short. The thorn is... I believe that the at least the scope statement of any standard should be public information that can be accessed as part of the regulatory body websites (whether it's CENELEC, ACA whoever). There should also be no fear of people being whacked for copywrite violations because they share the scope statement from a standard. Sometimes, the title just isn't descriptive enough. We do purchase standards that we know will apply to our products. However; I have been burned by buying standards that sounded like they would apply; but really don't. I assume that a few others have had similar experiences; and that's why we see so many questions in the EMC-PSTC regarding standards applicability. Some companies do care about the cost of that $75 standard. (definitely not the opinions of my employer...) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:56 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Re: ENV 50121-5 > > > I read in !emc-pstc that Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) > wrote (in > 550...@vacho6misge.cho.ge.com>) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep > 2001: > >I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. > > What does it cover? > > Railway applications. Electromagnetic compatibility. Fixed > installations. > > >What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? > > What you are effectively asking for is the whole text of the standard. > Not sensible, not possible. Pay your USD75 or so for it. > -- > Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. > http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk > Eat mink and be dreary! > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: ENV 50121-5
I read in !emc-pstc that Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) wrote (in ) about 'ENV 50121-5', on Thu, 6 Sep 2001: >I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. > What does it cover? Railway applications. Electromagnetic compatibility. Fixed installations. >What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? What you are effectively asking for is the whole text of the standard. Not sensible, not possible. Pay your USD75 or so for it. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: ENV 50121-5
ENV 50121-5 Fixed Power Installations for Railway Applications http://www.yorkemc.co.uk/Technical/Tins/tin6.htm John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:daniel.bi...@gefanuc.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:59 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' (E-mail) Subject: ENV 50121-5 I am looking for a short description of ENV 50121-5. What does it cover? What tests does it specify? What limits does it specify for tests? Thanks, DB --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
