RE: *groan* PST Files
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, Jon _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: *groan* PST Files
Jon, IMHO Don't go down that route, before I joined here they went for that, now we have uses that get corrupt PST's because they are knocking around the 1.84GB limit, they make copies of the PST (one for March, then another in June with 10% more email). All it does is move the problem of space onto either a non-secure desktop/laptop or fill up a file server. I would just make sure that the server is of reasonable spec and KEEP it on exchange where it belongs (since you have no money to archive it). ALSO see FAQ why PST=BAD. Cheers Paul Standards are like toothbrushes, everyone wants one but not yours -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 September 2002 10:02 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: *groan* PST Files Hi. Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users. We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email, but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution. I've also read the arguments in the FAQ, but wonder what other folks in a similar situation would do, with regard to archiving. Currently our priv.edb is 13.9 GB, while the pub.edb is 226MB, so would archiving essential emails on Public folders be a reasonable idea? Some of our client handlers need to keep archives for some of our clients, in case of compliance issues. Jon * DISCLAIMER Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the Company. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the IT department by telephone on +44 (0)117 311 8555 or via email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. * _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information contained in this message or any of its attachments may be confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited without the express permission of the sender. The views expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of Sony or Sony affiliated companies. Sony email is for business use only. This email and any response may be monitored by Sony United Kingdom Limited. (04) *** _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: *groan* PST Files
As it seems that you do actually need large email stores to archive mail which
presumably needs to be reliably stored so you can actually get it back (or else whats
the point of bothering to archive it?), what business functionality would moving them
from a nice reliable easy to back up and manage exchange database store to a
unreliable, difficult to control and backup PST file?
I'm not a fan of shuffling stuff around between different file stores to be honest, it
is at best a short term solution that won't solve your actual problem.
-Original Message-
From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thu 19/09/2002 10:02
To: Exchange Discussions
Cc:
Subject: *groan* PST Files
Hi.
Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users.
We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email,
but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay
for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO
other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution.
I've also read the arguments in the FAQ, but wonder what other folks in a
similar
situation would do, with regard to archiving.
Currently our priv.edb is 13.9 GB, while the pub.edb is 226MB, so would
archiving
essential emails on Public folders be a reasonable idea?
Some of our client handlers need to keep archives for some of our clients, in
case
of compliance issues.
Jon
*
DISCLAIMER
Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
not necessarily the Company. This email and any files transmitted
with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain
alterations) subsequently transmitted from the Company, are
confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may
contain material protected by attorney-client privilege. If you are not
the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the
intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in
error and that any use is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this email in error please notify the IT
department by telephone on +44 (0)117 311 8555 or via email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], including a copy of this
message.
Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it.
*
_
List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp
To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ëi¢Ëb@Bm§ÿðà 0w ¢oëzÊ.Ç¿{!}ª¡¶`+r¯zÈm¶ÿÃ
,Ã)är¿²+^±æ«r ìyªÜ
«)N§²æìr¸zf¢Ú%y«Þ{!jx Ë0Êy ¢a1r§ââ²Ö)åËZvh§³ §Ê
RE: *groan* PST Files
Implement strict mailbox quotas. Block GIF, JPG, MP*, AVI and other multimedia files. Do not allow e-mails larger than 5Mb to be anywhere in your information store. Teach users to use file shares rather than e-mail to send stuff across. And one last thing, implement this policy throughout your organisation Teach the boss that no matter how much he shouts and threatens, Exchange server will still have a 16gb limitation, which will shout back at him if he insists on sending/receiving child-porn/car photos/yacht layout diagrams In other words, be ruthless...until the money comes in for an upgrade.. -Original Message- From: Robert Moir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 September 2002 2:11 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: *groan* PST Files As it seems that you do actually need large email stores to archive mail which presumably needs to be reliably stored so you can actually get it back (or else whats the point of bothering to archive it?), what business functionality would moving them from a nice reliable easy to back up and manage exchange database store to a unreliable, difficult to control and backup PST file? I'm not a fan of shuffling stuff around between different file stores to be honest, it is at best a short term solution that won't solve your actual problem. -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu 19/09/2002 10:02 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: *groan* PST Files Hi. Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users. We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email, but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution. I've also read the arguments in the FAQ, but wonder what other folks in a similar situation would do, with regard to archiving. Currently our priv.edb is 13.9 GB, while the pub.edb is 226MB, so would archiving essential emails on Public folders be a reasonable idea? Some of our client handlers need to keep archives for some of our clients, in case of compliance issues. Jon * DISCLAIMER Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the Company. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the IT department by telephone on +44 (0)117 311 8555 or via email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. * _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +--xm ,)r(ື \b=!6 0 zǚ1r䀬:.˛ m隊[hy㞄\z[,䔀)rɄZ Zvh쀧+-i٢2뮞G( Andrea Coppini +356 79 ANDREA (263732) [EMAIL PROTECTED] EMPOWER PEOPLE - THE WORLD IN YOUR HAND iWG (iWORLD GROUP) is a global e-mobile company creating, building and growing new businesses. iWG founders are pioneers in creating multi-billion dollar mobile and Internet businesses in Europe, Asia and the US. The Global Partners include the shareholders Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, Hikari Tsushin, McCaw, PaineWebber/UBS, The Dolphins' Trust, Perikles Trust and the iAA Advisory Network. www.iWG.info www.countryprofiler.com/iWG Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm
RE: *groan* PST Files
Perzactly. Jon-- the arguments you need to use to management are: Is disk space for file servers cheaper than diskspace (and an upgrade to enterprise edition)? Not to mention the extra tape storage for backups, and headaches for users and you when they need a .pst file back. Once you start down the .pst path, there is almost no way to get back from it-- users get used to using them and are difficult to un-train. Keep in mind that .pst files: 1) Break SIS-- you will now have umpteen copies of that pretty 25 MB powerpoint presentation instead of just 1. 2) .PST files save a plain text version and a rich text version of every file (and attachment, I believe). Therefore, they are automatically roughly double the size of the mail as it sits in the database: i.e. a 200 MB mailbox becomes a 400 MB .pst. 3) As Paul mentions, have a hard 2 gig limit, and are unstable after about 500 MB or less. Mike Morrison Staff System Engineer Fletcher Allen Health Care -Original Message- From: Hurst, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:35 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: *groan* PST Files Jon, IMHO Don't go down that route, before I joined here they went for that, now we have uses that get corrupt PST's because they are knocking around the 1.84GB limit, they make copies of the PST (one for March, then another in June with 10% more email). All it does is move the problem of space onto either a non-secure desktop/laptop or fill up a file server. I would just make sure that the server is of reasonable spec and KEEP it on exchange where it belongs (since you have no money to archive it). ALSO see FAQ why PST=BAD. Cheers Paul Standards are like toothbrushes, everyone wants one but not yours -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 September 2002 10:02 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: *groan* PST Files Hi. Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users. We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email, but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution. I've also read the arguments in the FAQ, but wonder what other folks in a similar situation would do, with regard to archiving. Currently our priv.edb is 13.9 GB, while the pub.edb is 226MB, so would archiving essential emails on Public folders be a reasonable idea? Some of our client handlers need to keep archives for some of our clients, in case of compliance issues. Jon * DISCLAIMER Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the Company. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the IT department by telephone on +44 (0)117 311 8555 or via email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. * _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information contained in this message or any of its attachments may be confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s). Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited without the express permission of the sender. The views expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of Sony or Sony affiliated companies. Sony email is for business use only. This email and any response may be monitored by Sony United Kingdom Limited. (04) *** _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL
RE: *groan* PST Files
Much like Robert, it's an inherited policy that I've stumbled into the sole reponsibilty of, and I'm cobbling bits of info together for a guideline and policy docco to stamp some authority over it. It gets a bit worrying though, when 8-10 people contantly use nearly a fifth of the servers capacity. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: *groan* PST Files
You have to ask if theres a real business need for what they are doing, and if so you really have to support it. This is a management issue - if your users have a need to archive this mail properly (which PSTs don't meet due to their problems) then you have a need to upgrade to Ent. edition or invest in some other creative solution which will probably cost more. It's not an easy choice but that choice has to be made - if your employers want to play on the grown up golf course they have to accept they'll have to pay grown up greens fees. Or they'll have to change the way they work. -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu 19/09/2002 15:58 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: *groan* PST Files Much like Robert, it's an inherited policy that I've stumbled into the sole reponsibilty of, and I'm cobbling bits of info together for a guideline and policy docco to stamp some authority over it. It gets a bit worrying though, when 8-10 people contantly use nearly a fifth of the servers capacity. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .+-¦-xm¶ÿà ,Â)Ür¿ë(º· ýì\ öªÙÈb½ë!¶Úÿ 0³ §ÊþÈzÇȱæ«r¬¥:.˱Êâmé[hæ¯yì\ ©àz[,Ã)ärÅÈZËZvh§+-iÙ¢Ì2G(
RE: *groan* PST Files
Hmm . . . I think that several issues that should be thought of distinctly and separate, have been muddled together here. We have - mail box size limits - storage management - .PST usage - .OST usage - budget and PHB management - Data and information management I think you will do best, if you separate these from each other, and deal with them as appropriate. If it will help, I'll comment on a couple of them, in a specific order. Budget and PHB Management: You need to have a yearly budget. Part of it has to be for your hardware. That will include maintaining what you have, and a program for upgrades that is tied to both your depreciation schedule and your life cycle plan. If your PHB has not required you to coordinate these, or even draw up some of them, then you need to manage your PHB and get them done and blessed. You cannot survive without them. Storage Management: In a static organization (in terms of the total number of users), as you replace hot spare spindles for your RAID system, each new spindle should hit a budgeted price point. Do this in targeted sizes, so that you are auto-magically increasing your capacity over time. You should NEVER have to buy a larger array to get more storage for a finite population, if you are doing a good job of managing what you have. Mail Box Size: Bigger is better - usually. It is not IS's business to be passing judgment on the business value of what your customers want to store, nor how they want to organize it (except as noted below). Your job is to manage to your budget, and make sure that your budget is sized to your need. Customer satisfaction is an element of service quality that you should be measuring. If you aren't, your policies have no validity - even if you think they are about right. Data and information management- This has NOTHING (as in not one little bit) to do with storage management. If your organization wants to achieve a state of managing your digital information and data, and the job has been given to people that manage storage, then you will fail. Data and information management is a discipline of the library sciences. If you don't have someone with that kind of training who is providing requirements to your storage management people, then all you have is useless chaos. If that is your situation, then your policies about capacity and limits are capricious and without a foundation in the needs of the business. But alas, most IT shops are run this way. .OST usage. An .OST file is an Off-line STore. Unfortunately, it is limited to being a mirror of folders on your server that have been flagged for offline availability. As far as I know (hey, I make mistakes too), there is no way to have a folder in an .OST that is not in the server store. So, customer data that properly belongs in a personal store and not in your enterprise message store, has to go someplace else. .PST usage. A .PST does those things that an .OST cannot. Most (if not all) of your customers will have message data that is either personal or private, and which they feel is inappropriate to keep on one of your servers. The reasons for this are almost infinite, and usually consistent with your business rules and guidelines (even if you think they aren't). A .PST is a terrible thing to use as a message delivery destination, but it is an excellent Personal STore. I think we would be better off, neither Exchange nor Outlook were in the storage business. It would be better to have a general purpose DFS service in both client and server versions, and simply have the ability to create special folders that were valid mail destinations, but alas we are not yet there. Someday. So for now, we have to deal with what we have. -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 2:02 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: *groan* PST Files Hi. Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users. We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email, but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution. I've also read the arguments in the FAQ, but wonder what other folks in a similar situation would do, with regard to archiving. Currently our priv.edb is 13.9 GB, while the pub.edb is 226MB, so would archiving essential emails on Public folders be a reasonable idea? Some of our client handlers need to keep archives for some of our clients, in case of compliance issues. Jon * DISCLAIMER Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the Company. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may
RE: *groan* PST Files
Give away a generous mailbox quota. Institute a nominal charge for larger quotas. If a manager has to approve a charge, even a small charge, the manager has to decide whether there is business value. It's best when the customer decides what qualifies as business value instead of the service provider. Edgar J. Crowley Jr. Technical Consultant Windows Messaging Platforms Practice hp Services *510-612-3365 *[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dupler, Craig Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: *groan* PST Files Hmm . . . I think that several issues that should be thought of distinctly and separate, have been muddled together here. We have - mail box size limits - storage management - .PST usage - .OST usage - budget and PHB management - Data and information management I think you will do best, if you separate these from each other, and deal with them as appropriate. If it will help, I'll comment on a couple of them, in a specific order. Budget and PHB Management: You need to have a yearly budget. Part of it has to be for your hardware. That will include maintaining what you have, and a program for upgrades that is tied to both your depreciation schedule and your life cycle plan. If your PHB has not required you to coordinate these, or even draw up some of them, then you need to manage your PHB and get them done and blessed. You cannot survive without them. Storage Management: In a static organization (in terms of the total number of users), as you replace hot spare spindles for your RAID system, each new spindle should hit a budgeted price point. Do this in targeted sizes, so that you are auto-magically increasing your capacity over time. You should NEVER have to buy a larger array to get more storage for a finite population, if you are doing a good job of managing what you have. Mail Box Size: Bigger is better - usually. It is not IS's business to be passing judgment on the business value of what your customers want to store, nor how they want to organize it (except as noted below). Your job is to manage to your budget, and make sure that your budget is sized to your need. Customer satisfaction is an element of service quality that you should be measuring. If you aren't, your policies have no validity - even if you think they are about right. Data and information management- This has NOTHING (as in not one little bit) to do with storage management. If your organization wants to achieve a state of managing your digital information and data, and the job has been given to people that manage storage, then you will fail. Data and information management is a discipline of the library sciences. If you don't have someone with that kind of training who is providing requirements to your storage management people, then all you have is useless chaos. If that is your situation, then your policies about capacity and limits are capricious and without a foundation in the needs of the business. But alas, most IT shops are run this way. .OST usage. An .OST file is an Off-line STore. Unfortunately, it is limited to being a mirror of folders on your server that have been flagged for offline availability. As far as I know (hey, I make mistakes too), there is no way to have a folder in an .OST that is not in the server store. So, customer data that properly belongs in a personal store and not in your enterprise message store, has to go someplace else. .PST usage. A .PST does those things that an .OST cannot. Most (if not all) of your customers will have message data that is either personal or private, and which they feel is inappropriate to keep on one of your servers. The reasons for this are almost infinite, and usually consistent with your business rules and guidelines (even if you think they aren't). A .PST is a terrible thing to use as a message delivery destination, but it is an excellent Personal STore. I think we would be better off, neither Exchange nor Outlook were in the storage business. It would be better to have a general purpose DFS service in both client and server versions, and simply have the ability to create special folders that were valid mail destinations, but alas we are not yet there. Someday. So for now, we have to deal with what we have. -Original Message- From: Exchange.ListServe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 2:02 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: *groan* PST Files Hi. Standard Version of EX5.5, SP4. 200+ users. We are looking at educating users in not storing everything in their email, but storing in either a .pst or .ost. Money is an issue, my company won't pay for us to upgrade to 5.5 Enterprise or Exchange 2K, so there's no option IMO other than educate the packrats, and set up an archiving solution. I've also read the arguments
