Re: go-home echo icon concept
Quoting Martin Sourada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi again, > > I made the icons for 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 sizes and tried to follow > echo guidlines. I attach all. What do you think? > This go-home icon looks odd because it looks out of place in echo world. It will on kids theme IMHO. I suggest to take a look on user-home icon from echo so you can get some ideas. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Uno wrote: Unfortunately I don't agree with you. Diana seam to be a fine artist, you are right in that. The problem is, that it takes more than being a fine artist to make a good desktop theme. In fact being a fine artist may even be a problem as most good art is about making a statement, while creating a desktop theme is more like making visual elevator music. It should be there, it should look reasonably good but not draw too much attention or create any major mood swings of the observer, it should help the user find the way in the system. I am in agreement Diana is an excellent artist, as is Mo, and others but the breakdown here is the process. Open Source is a community, a team, a gathering of folks with a common desire. In FC6 the deadlines came quick and in all honesty there was really no other choice but to turn it all over to Diana and Mola and cross our fingers. To their credit it worked out, but that is not the Open Source process. The balance between being dull and very good is very delicate. In addition to the above comment it is important to note "quality" of the artwork does not equal acceptance. IMO acceptance comes when the message of the image is received and it's intent is understood. I worry when to the word "polish" becomes the yardstick of acceptance as I don't know how to qualify it. We discussed months earlier how wonderful it would be to create FC7 artwork using open source products to show case of how well they work. Is the "polish" achieved from the hand of a professional artist using Adobe or Bryce more important than this? To our credit this go-around we started early and there was lots of dialog and "inclusion" (an open source value). We had buy-in from the team but it's doesn't look like we had buy-in from fedora. :( My frustration is here we are again. RC1 is behind us and all we have is a list of suggestions for Fedora to develop (no Diana wiki page, no forum posts, nothing). Other than the images on Diana's personal blog, I don't have a clue what the vision of the default product is and RC2 is coming the 27th. In my previous posts I did not intend to sound sour on "echo". I like "echo". On my rc1 wiki page you will notice all of the icons I could change have been changed to "echo". My suggestion was going to be FC7 artwork should use "echo" even if the icons don't make FC7. I am in agreement "echo" needs to work as well for KDE as it does for GDM. Finally, based on the info of the theme wiki page we are technically at round 3 and the team has completed its effort and again I say to those who contributed with art and/or comments "job well done". John ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Joachim Frieben skrev: Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). Nevertheless, user interface and artwork have a crucial impact on perception and acceptance of the final product by the user community and interested parties. It is too important to leave it solely to a bunch of self proclaimed artists. And from the submissions that I have seen [mind you, I am perfectly entitled to express my personal point of view even -without- being an art contributor myself] I am rather sceptical wether the "Fedora" developer community itself can provide the expertise which is necessary to design an ergonomic and visually appealing user interface. I suppose many users care much less about exactly which kernel version they are running than if the user interface is nice and functional. "Fedora" is in the favourable situation of being backed by "Red Hat" which allows to help finalize the artwork by a graphics professional. And this is certainly not the least aspect which has made "Fedora" the success it actually is. Actually, the question is if the final look should be decided by artists, that is probably better left to usability and marketing people. To get the most out of the artists it is important that there is an ongoing discussion among all parties involved from day one. I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for weeks how things are going. Btw, we should he be upset when it was not even warranted that his submission would be retained at all? The number of postings to this list can hardly be considered a valid criterion which proposal to pick! If more professional artists and usability people had contributed to this list, I'm sure there would have been more posts. Regards Uno Engborg smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
> Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then > we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and > stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version > is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us > the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). Nevertheless, user interface and artwork have a crucial impact on perception and acceptance of the final product by the user community and interested parties. It is too important to leave it solely to a bunch of self proclaimed artists. And from the submissions that I have seen [mind you, I am perfectly entitled to express my personal point of view even -without- being an art contributor myself] I am rather sceptical wether the "Fedora" developer community itself can provide the expertise which is necessary to design an ergonomic and visually appealing user interface. I suppose many users care much less about exactly which kernel version they are running than if the user interface is nice and functional. "Fedora" is in the favourable situation of being backed by "Red Hat" which allows to help finalize the artwork by a graphics professional. And this is certainly not the least aspect which has made "Fedora" the success it actually is. > I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own > design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for > weeks how things are going. Btw, we should he be upset when it was not even warranted that his submission would be retained at all? The number of postings to this list can hardly be considered a valid criterion which proposal to pick! -- "Feel free" - 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX ProMail testen: www.gmx.net/de/go/mailfooter/promail-out ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Le mercredi 14 février 2007 à 11:49 +0200, Nicu Buculei a écrit : > > I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own > design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for > weeks how things are going. > I am not very familiar with this list, but I did not imagine any second that John's work would be published in the final distro. I don't really know how to say this (I really DONT want to be offensive or criticise his work) : his theme is great, FULL of many ideas and many ideas for many different themes. He has a great talent, I don't have such and I am really anvious not to be able to do the same. But his work does not look as professional as what professional designers / artists, like Mairin and Diana, can do. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Uno Engborg wrote: The process for how, the themes was supposed to be developed should have been clear from start. That way everybody could have been happy. It would have been so simple to fix this. Instead of posting to the www.isity.net Diana could have posted her progress here or on the fedora art wiki. Posting on the blog is also important, it is marketing for the project (and marketing for the blog poster herself). But it should not *replace* communication on the mailing list, otherwise the rest of the members of the list feel themselves left in the dust. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: Instead of being disappointed, take a look to http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 Be glad your theme has been selected for the design. John has every reason to be glad that his theme was selected, but that is not the same thing as he should be glad that he did a lot of unecessary work. This sends the wrong signalst to people that are prepared to help in the future, if any. The process for how, the themes was supposed to be developed should have been clear from start. That way everybody could have been happy. It would have been so simple to fix this. Instead of posting to the www.isity.net Diana could have posted her progress here or on the fedora art wiki. Regards Uno Engborg ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Instead of being disappointed, take a look to http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 Be glad your theme has been selected for the design. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
John Baer wrote: This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the community of Open Source. If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. Don't you find this similar with the Ubuntu story? http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255 -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Joachim Frieben wrote: From the user's point of view, this is good news. It's a simple fact that computer geeks are rarely competent when it comes to graphics design and artwork. The horrible look of "community" distros like "Debian" is the living proof for this observation whereas "OpenSUSE" or "Fedora" are an order of magnitude ahead [ok, your designs are not that bad but still fairly amateurish]. Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). Since it will be apparently based on your "Flying high" theme you should be rather pleased about this development, shouldn't you? An overhaul of your submissions should not be considered personally offending. I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for weeks how things are going. It seems the other people who proposed themes just felt the direction of the wind and lowered the priority of Fedora Art on their work queue. I avoided to talk about this as I don't want to be categorized as a FUD spreader and flamewar igniter. And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. The link between the desktop theme and the icon theme is indeed very loose: an icon theme is a huge work for one single full-time developer, so without help from the larger community the job may get never done. And with an alienated community this help can be lost. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
On 14/02/07, John Baer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. I think that shutting down the list is a little OTT but I see what your problem is and I share it; it seems it's a case of thanks-and-bye with FC7. This didn't happen last time round IIRC, Mola's 3D rendering was certainly helped toward the end with professional efforts but that was after a lot of commnity development. On 14/02/07, Joachim Frieben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Some polish by a graphics professional was really needed, and I am glad to hear that Diana whose work has always been extremely well done is going to give a final touch to the artwork for "F7". [...] somehow a decision had to be made .. This is what I'm slightly disappointed with more; the decision should really be made by the community who make it from the remaining leading choices. I feel that if any more work needed to be done, it should at least be done with comms with this list. From the way it's coming across, there will be nothing until release day when we shall find out for ourselves. That's my tuppence, anyways. And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. True; as I've said before, the Echo stuff is much more long term. There's still issues other than simply final artwork that need to be sorted, such as KDE support etc. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
> This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the > community of Open Source. > > If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list > server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the > artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. > > Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and > honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. > > To add insult to injury all of the time we are working on artwork Fedora > launches "echo" in RC1 although the decision on artwork is pending and > many would agree the "echo" project is incomplete and not tested. > > It sounds to me there are personal agendas playing out and those agendas > have nothing to do with open source and the community of fedora. > > At this point the only thing left to do is make up excuses and assign > blame. > > Pity, > > John >From the user's point of view, this is good news. It's a simple fact that >computer geeks are rarely competent when it comes to graphics design and >artwork. The horrible look of "community" distros like "Debian" is the living >proof for this observation whereas "OpenSUSE" or "Fedora" are an order of >magnitude ahead [ok, your designs are not that bad but still fairly >amateurish]. Some polish by a graphics professional was really needed, and I am glad to hear that Diana whose work has always been extremely well done is going to give a final touch to the artwork for "F7". Since it will be apparently based on your "Flying high" theme you should be rather pleased about this development, shouldn't you? An overhaul of your submissions should not be considered personally offending. Personally, I would have gone for "Borealis" but somehow a decision had to be made .. And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source
Quoting John Baer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > To add insult to injury all of the time we are working on artwork Fedora > launches "echo" in RC1 although the decision on artwork is pending and > many would agree the "echo" project is incomplete and not tested. Actually it is tested through FC6 (I primairly use it by default) and F7T1. So far there is six bugs reports and I currently investigating one of them. Remember no icon theme will be completed because applications use their own. For now, main icons are priority. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
