License compatibility

[O'brien, Tim]

This question relates to some code in a commons sandbox component.  I would
have asked this question on licensing@, but I think that is a members-only
list.

Here's the hypothetical, but I'd like to get some official guidance from the
PMC.

Assume that there is a piece of C code covered by the Perl Artistic License:
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/language/misc/Artistic.html that implements an
algorithm like DoubleMetaphone.  Now, imagine that a contributor submits a
class that is a direct port of this code to Java.  The port contains lines
of code that are strikingly similar to the original, the class seems to be a
verbatim copy of the original making exceptions for the differences between
Java and C. 

Here's the CPAN module:
http://search.cpan.org/author/MAURICE/Text-DoubleMetaphone-0.05/DoubleMetaph
one.pm
Here's the Codec class:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/codec/clover/org/apache/commons/co
dec/language/DoubleMetaphone.html

I discovered the deriviative nature of the work after the class had been
added to the CVS repository, and subsequently had some discussions which led
me to belive that the Perl Artistic was compatible with the Apache license.
Section 3 of the PAL seems relevant, but I am not the individual to be
making legal judgement calls on behalf of the ASF.  

Anybody?  Please let me know if I need to remove this from CVS ASAP.



 As a parting shot, I think that porting C code directly to Java is simply a
*bad idea*.  

 The implementation in question has a method that is 800+ lines - regardless
of the direction, this class needs to be 
 refactored, reimplemented.  If PAL is compatible, we'll start from this
implementation as a baseline; if PAL is not 
 compatible, we'll start from scratch.  I'm neutral.  



Tim O'Brien



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Karma request jakarta-site2

[O'brien, Tim]

Was trying to add my name to the whoweare.xml list.  Could I get some karma?



Tim O'Brien 




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RE: CVS Q

[O'brien, Tim]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> on 2003/2/12 8:55 AM, "neil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I was at apachecon ! I'm hoping to have a chat with anyone who runs CVS
> > for 50+ developers in a fast moving environment. I'm looking for some
> > very basic pointers on whether we should implement it or not. Also might
> > be in the market for some consultancy if anyone is based in the UK.
> 
> Shameless plugs:
> 
> #0. Yes, you need revision control.

#0.1 In addition because your team is much larger, you need to go with
copy-modify-merge

> #1. SourceCast would be good for you and CollabNet can do the consulting
on
> group development: http://collab.net/

#1.1 If you don't have the money to pay for something like SourceCast.  You
should really think about making everyone read Karl Fogel's "Open Source
Development with CVS", even if they don't want to. :-)

> #2. SVN is better than CVS, but you should definitely go with 
> one of them: http://subversion.tigris.org

#2.1 If you are looking for more detail than "SVN is better than CVS", take
a look at the ApacheWiki page set up for this very reason:
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?Subversion/WhyUseSubversion 


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RE: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003

[O'brien, Tim]

Ooops, that damn send button.

Here's some short content, maybe it can go in a "notices" section:

"codec is alive again, and moving towards a release.  codec's short-term
goals include: moving towards definitive implementations of common encodings
such as Base64 and Hex, and developing a cohesive framework for expansion."



Tim O'Brien 

> -Original Message-
> From: Tim O'Brien [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:33 PM
> To: 'Jakarta General List'
> Subject: RE: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003
> 
> 
> Here's some content:
> 
> > Commons Sandbox - Codec out of hiberna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tim O'Brien 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stefan Bodewig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:58 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 02 Feb 2003, Rob Oxspring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > General
> > 
> > Several people have been elected as new members of the
> > Jakarta PMC, they are [1]
> > 
> >  Nicola Ken Barozzi
> >  Robert Burrel Donkin
> >  Stephen Colebourne
> >  Martin Cooper
> >  Henri Gomez
> >  John Keyes
> >  Larry Isaacs
> >  Otis Gospodnetic
> >  Thomas Mahler
> >  Remy Maucherat
> >  Glenn Nielsen
> >  Andrew C Oliver
> >  Rob Oxspring
> >  Martin Poeschl
> >  Scott Sanders
> >  David Sean Taylor
> >  Glen Stampoultzis
> >  Mladen Turk
> >  James Turner
> >  Henri Yandell
> > 
> > Footnotes:
> > [1]  
> > http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@
> jakarta.apache.org&msgNo=14080
> 
> 
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> 


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RE: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003

[O'brien, Tim]

Here's some content:

> Commons Sandbox - Codec out of hiberna




Tim O'Brien 


> -Original Message-
> From: Stefan Bodewig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 1:58 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - January 2003
> 
> 
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2003, Rob Oxspring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > General
> 
> Several people have been elected as new members of the 
> Jakarta PMC, they are [1]
> 
>  Nicola Ken Barozzi
>  Robert Burrel Donkin
>  Stephen Colebourne
>  Martin Cooper
>  Henri Gomez
>  John Keyes
>  Larry Isaacs
>  Otis Gospodnetic
>  Thomas Mahler
>  Remy Maucherat
>  Glenn Nielsen
>  Andrew C Oliver
>  Rob Oxspring
>  Martin Poeschl
>  Scott Sanders
>  David Sean Taylor
>  Glen Stampoultzis
>  Mladen Turk
>  James Turner
>  Henri Yandell
> 
> Footnotes: 
> [1]  
> http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@
jakarta.apache.org&msgNo=14080


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RE: How did they do this in wiki?

[O'brien, Tim]

SubPages...here is the link to the UseMod documentation about this: 

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&id=SubPage&oldid=SubPage
s

It makes sense to conserve names to allow for growth in the Apache Wiki.
Especially when one considers that common pages like
"FrequentlyAskedQuestions" or "RecentChanges", etc  It would make sense
to have individual projects standardize on using the SubPage concept to
provide more isolation.

I'm trying it out here:
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?CodecProjectPages


Tim O'Brien 

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 9:32 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: How did they do this in wiki?
> 
> 
> Me thinks it happens when you do Sub pages ( /WikiName on a 
> page ). Might want to subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]).
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > This page has the AxisProjectPages in the header links.  
> How did they 
> > do this?  I don't see anything special in the page code.
> > 
> > 
> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?> AxisProjectPages/SoapMoni
> > tor
> > 
> > I want to do the same with the Log4jProjectPages.  And, yes, I did 
> > spend time in the UseMod documentation, but to no avail.
> > 
> > -Mark
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For 
> additional commands, 
> e-mail: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?

[O'brien, Tim]

Again, I watch, and prod

Andrew, Wiki is a good idea - I've got OJB docs to publish asap.  Getting a
committer to notice doc patches can be difficult (programmers rarely love to
stop and write detailed, grammatically correct documentation - we're all
guilty).  

I was merely asking if anyone had given a thought to the question of legal
issues and how they relate to Wiki + ASF.  I think that it is a reasonable
question, and I was surprised that no one had raised this issue.  Audit
trail...?

It is important to keep reminding yourself that Apache is a corporation of
Delaware, and it is subject to real IP law.  If you've been watching some of
the dev lists I've been watching, there have been some small copyright
violations of late that, luckily, have been settled amicably.This
coupled with the fact that ASF wants to start raising more operational funds
(Attachment A, November board minutes), makes legal questions very
important.  I'd ask you to look up the word "indemnity", and meditate.  You
want FUD? Open source software has *very* well funded enemies.  :-(

PS: You are right about Wiki's effective self regulation, I'm astonished
that Wikipedia still adheres to the neutrality policy on topics that deal
with current events - (if only major world conflicts could be settled on
Wiki?).  I started a Wikipedia page on Jakarta, it is sparse, and hardly
accurate SO FIX IT: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_Project




Tim O'Brien 


> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:26 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> 
> 
> O'brien, Tim wrote:
> 
> >A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions 
> >here,
> >
> >Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
> >
> >If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
> >
> >Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF?  If Wiki is 
> >open to the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on 
> >Wiki, who would bear responsibility?
> >  
> >
> Lets not start with the FUD..  If it happens, we'll remove them.  
> 
> What if someone puts the detailed information on how to 
> produce Anthrax, 
> and hides the
> secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also 
> brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does 
> currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or 
> velocity running fast...  
> 
> Wiki's self regulate.  You'll see.
> Lets not What if problems that don't exist.  Go see 
> http://www.wikipedia.org/ and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki to see 
> what can happen and on what scale, without those things being 
> a problem...  
> 
> Lets be eXtereme just for this and have courage.
> 
> If wikis are dangerous then Ward Cunningham is an evil evil man.
> 
> -Andy
> 
> >
> >Tim O'Brien
> >W 847-574-2143
> >M 847-863-7045
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
> >>To: Jakarta General List
> >>Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>
> >>
> >>+1
> >>
> >>Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
> >>rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver 
> >>somewhere with filesystem access?  
> >>
> >>If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
> >>
> >>If so.  I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
> >>"security" and set it up by the end of next week.
> >>
> >>Thank you,
> >>
> >>-Andy
> >>
> >>Tom Copeland wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Love 'em.  Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool
> >>>
> >>>tom
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>>-Original Message-
> >>>>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
> >>>>To: Jakarta General List
> >>>>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>So how about some feedback:
> >>&g

RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?

[O'brien, Tim]

A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions here,

Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?  

If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?

Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF?  If Wiki is open to
the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on Wiki, who would
bear responsibility?


Tim O'Brien 
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045


> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient 
> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver 
> somewhere with filesystem access?  
> 
> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
> 
> If so.  I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup, 
> "security" and set it up by the end of next week.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> -Andy
> 
> Tom Copeland wrote:
> 
> >Love 'em.  Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool
> >
> >tom
> >
> >  
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
> >>To: Jakarta General List
> >>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>
> >>
> >>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>So how about some feedback:
> >>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to 
> write ad hoc 
> >>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
> >>At my day job
> >>we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
> >>sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool.  (And 
> >>we're fairly
> >>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a 
> >>wiki is even
> >>more useful.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
> >>a number of
> >>wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java 
> >>though).  There's a
> >>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
> >>, of course.
> >>
> >>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
> >>that matters to
> >>anyone.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>or Apache?
> >>
> >>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
> >>
> >>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a 
> >>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one 
> could create a 
> >>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
> >>
> >>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
> >>Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
> >>plain ol' OracleHowTo.
> >>
> >>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
> >>name might be
> >>sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need 
> >>support from some
> >>WikiGnomes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>Something internal would seem official.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>Soon.
> >>
> >>
> >>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
> >>another wiki)
> >>for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy 
> to help out
> >>however I can.  Please keep me posted, either via 
> jakarta-general, by
> >>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a 
> direct note.
> >>
> >> - Rod
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>For
> >>additional commands, 
> >>e-mail: 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> 
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RE: Jakarta PMC report

[O'brien, Tim]

Where are the November board minutes now that they have been approved at
yesterday's board meeting?


Tim O'Brien 
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045


> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:45 AM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC report
> 
> 
> Various answers, in no particular order:
> 
> This is a chairman's report.  Typically, these appear after a 
> time delay 
> (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at 
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html .
> 
> I raised the issue about Tapestry in yesterday's board meeting.  Jim 
> Jagielski agreed to contact Andy ASAP.  First thing after the 
> holidays 
> would be a good time to pursue XDoclet.  It's time to 
> unpause.  ;-) Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] and express your 
> desires as to where this 
> codebase would land within the ASF.
> 
> My opinion is that subprojects that lack community due to stability 
> should become community property.  Perhaps commit messages should be 
> directed to general@.
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> 
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November Board Meeting Minutes

[O'brien, Tim]

Rob, you refer to a november board meeting, I'm noticing that there are
no minutes for this meeting on
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html

I don't see a general apache discussion list, so for the benefit of the
community could you try to get those minutes published.

Thanks


Tim O'Brien 
Transolutions, Inc.
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045


> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Oxspring [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:09 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [DRAFT2] Jakarta Newsletter - November 2002
> 
> 
> Jakarta Newsletter
> ==
> Issue: 5
> Date: November 2002
> Url: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200211.html
> 
> It has been a quiet month. Commons has killed on old 
> component and welcomed a new one, while other components have 
> kept up fixes, features and releases. Elsewhere there has 
> been more discussion about the infrastructure and community 
> at Apache, and an attempt to be helpful to those developers using IDEs
> 
> As always, I want to thank those who contributed and hope 
> that you enjoy the read. If you would like to comment further 
> on any of the highlighted discussions then please do so on 
> the appropriate list, if you want to comment on the 
> newsletter itself then please point your comments to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Rob Oxspring
> 
> 
> Contents
> 
> General
> Ant
> Commons
> Jetspeed
> Lucene
> 
> 
> 
> General
> ===
> "Ideas, suggestions, and comments on the overall Jakarta project"
> Editor: Rob Oxspring
> 
> Andrew Oliver decided to do something about the Java 
> developers who "cut their teeth" on IDEs and don't understand 
> the intricacies of the command line tools that are used under 
> the hood. The page [1] was welcomed by many and was rapidly 
> expanded [2] and should hopefully be a resource useful to a 
> wide range of developers.
> 
> Duplicated or pointless import statements appear over time in 
> most Java code. This is an issue that Tom Copeland wanted to 
> tackle, and sparked a few iterations [3] of the "bad imports" 
> report [4].
> 
> [1] - 
> http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=gener
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]&from=281536&to=281536&count=39&by=thread&paged=f
> alse
> [2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idedevelopers.html
> [3] - 
> http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=gener
[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=271386
> [4] - http://cvs.apache.org/~tcopeland/jakarta_bad_imports.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Ant
> ===
> "Apache Ant is a Java-based build tool"
> Editor: Stefan Bodewig
> 
> The biggest news in Ant land is that Ant has been promoted to 
> a top-level project at the board meeting in November. Much of 
> the discussion on ant-dev has been centered around the 
> proposed board resolution, the formation of the initial PMC 
> and similar issues during the last months. [1,2,3]
> 
> While Ant is leaving the oversight of the Jakarta PMC with 
> this move, Ant's committers are not necessarily leaving the 
> Jakarta community, many of us will still be around and 
> contribute where we see fit.
> 
> After the release of Ant 1.5.1 at the beginning of October, 
> we've kept on fixing smaller bugs in the 1.5 branch, so a 
> 1.5.2 release is getting more likely. At the same time, 
> development in the HEAD branch is picking up momentum again 
> as we start adding new features and experiment with some stuff [4,5]
> 
> The Ant GUI, Antidote, is being revived and discussions are 
> getting underway on the Ant-dev mailing list. If anyone wants 
> to get involved in this project, they are most welcome.
> 
> [1] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10365883356&r=1&w=2
> [2] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10370221362&r=1&w=2
> [3] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10377858962&r=1&w=2
> [4] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10383492934&r=1&w=2
> [5] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10383442511&r=1&w=2
> 
> 
> 
> Commons
> ===
> "creating and maintaining reusable Java components"
> Editor: Henri Yandell
> 
> 
> Releases
> 
> November saw the release of two new projects from Jakarta 
> Commons, and the release of a bugfix for another project.
> 
> Commons Validator 1.0 was mentioned in the previous 
> newsletter. It was released on November 1st and is a 
> validation framework from the Struts people.
> 
> Commons CLI 1.0 was released on the 6th of November and is an 
> API for parsing command line arguments. It is the direct 
> descendant of 3 older argument parsing APIs and other APIs 
> have affected it over mail list discussions. This gives it a 
> very high pedigree and makes it a great choice for handling 
> the command line.
> 
> Commons Lang 1.0.1 is the first bugfix release for the Lang 
> project. There are no new APIs or deprecated functionality, 
> so all Commons Lang users are advised to upgrade, although 
> the bugfixes are not earth-shattering.
> 
> [1] - 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-commons/rele

A suggestion for Scarab

[O'brien, Tim]

What is nice about Apache is the transparency of the process, you don't
have to be a member of some specially selected club to see the process
of development.  There is anonymous access to the CVS repositories and
anyone can sign on to the mailing lists.  In effect, no one has to
approve a request to join a mailing list, checkout via anoncvs.   If
*Bill Gates* wanted to do a full checkout of the latest source of
jakarta-ojb, he doesn't need to ask permission.

One signs up for Bugzilla, get's a password in the email, and then can
quickly see bug reports for everything, and submit new bugs, etc.
Someone signs up for Scarab, and is presented with a system by which
they can request to be associated with certain projects.

Could someone put a note on that Login pages of Scarab that lets people
know what the roles mean (what is a Partner, do we ever expect to have a
Partner?), and that if one requests "Developer" role in any project that
will be granted immediately.  Basically, my beef is that there is a
*perceived* barrier to entry here, when in fact there absolutely none.

( Also, don't get me wrong Scarab is a great thing.  I'm noticing that
Bugzilla doesn't scale well with all the projects/versions/components,
etc  )


Tim O'Brien 
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045



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