Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
Mark Lentczner gmail.com> writes: > > As the README at that repository states, For 10.7 and later Apple now > distributes a "Command Line Tools" package on the developer site. > When I build and release the Haskell Platform, I confirm that works > when just this package is installed (rather than all of Xcode). > > [Message continues] > > - Mark (HP release manager) > > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > Hi Mark, I will keep you updated, the issue is that I refuse to upgrade to 10.7 or later, many of the brilliant features from Snow Leopard were entirely ruined and I still see people complaining about having trouble with it on my model of MacBook. So for 10.6 users, this 3rd part installer is the only option I could find! Thanks, Andrew ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
As the README at that repository states, For 10.7 and later Apple now distributes a "Command Line Tools" package on the developer site. When I build and release the Haskell Platform, I confirm that works when just this package is installed (rather than all of Xcode). The Command Line Tools from Apple include not only the compiler and bin tools that GHC needs, but also the full suite of development headers and library stubs. Many people's OS X woes with HP have stemmed from non-standard development installations. If at all possible, I suggest you stick with Apple's distributions. Please keep us appraised of how it works for you after you've used it for a bit. I'm curious if, should you start installing some of Hackage's more complicated packages, if it continues to work out. - Mark (HP release manager) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
Tom Murphy gmail.com> writes: > > Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the > future? I'm tired of dealing with Apple's constant upgrade > requirements, registration requirements, etc., and it seems like a > small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development > "toolchain." > Again, I'm ignorant of the details and I'm sorry if this is ranty, but > I'd love to hear your reactions. > > Thanks! > Tom > Hi, I know this is an old thread, but it came up on Google when I was searching around for an answer to this. So maybe I can still help someone. 10.6 users can use this installer on GitHub https://github.com/kennethreitz/osx-gcc-installer. It installs gcc and a few other bits and pieces (less than a GB to install). Then you can install the Haskell Platform. It's worked for me so far! Enjoy! Thanks, Andrew ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
In addition to the excellent reasons that Mark outlined, there is another important reason to *not* include gcc and friends in the HP. Every software developer (as opposed to friend of a friend who just wanted to try to learn programming with Haskell on a road trip) will already have Xcode installed on their Mac. Having two versions of gcc, make, lots of other tools, library headers, library objects, etc is going to lead to subtle bugs and headaches; at the latest, when you compile your first multi-language project. (This is where this is not comparable to the situation on Windows with mingw. A software developer on Windows, will have Visual Studio installed, but usually not some flavour of the GNU tools.) Manuel PS: I am sure there is demand for a self-contained, lightweight beginners/teaching Haskell environment, but let's not confuse that with the main distribution. Mark Lentczner: > Hiho - I'm the maintainer of the Mac installer for HP. I thought I'd > chime in a bit: > > On Mac OS X, "developer tools" is essentially synonymous with "Xcode". > That is, to get the set of standard utilities needed for development > on compiled executables (notably the "binutils"), you install Xcode. > True, it also includes the IDE called Xcode, but the vast bulk of that > installation are things like headers, link libraries, command line > tools, and other utilities for development of compiled executables in > general. > > As several have pointed out, you can download Xcode for free. If you > have Lion, you can get Xcode 4 for free from the Mac Store. Xcode 3 > for 10.6 and 10.5. Traditionally, Apple has included Xcode on one of > the CD-ROMs that came with a new computer, and/or as an installer > already present on the hard disk. (I haven't bought a new Air... > yet... but perhaps someone can check to see if the Xcode installer is > one the SSD volume already?) > > It is conceivably possible to build and distribute some of those > tools, but not the whole bundle. But the difficulty of getting such a > build just right, and all the pieces in the right place, seems absurd > to attempt to recreate when Apple has done it, and gives it away for > free. Apple's versions of bintools also includes many extensions extra > options for the OS X environment (like supporting multi-arch binaries) > Finally, there is also licensing questions regarding the parts > supplied by the OS vendor (headers, stub libs, debug libs, etc) > > Given the above, perhaps it is a little more clear why we choose to > not include the system development tools in the Haskell Platform > installer. > > - Mark > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 7/30/11, Mark Lentczner wrote: > Hiho - I'm the maintainer of the Mac installer for HP. I thought I'd > chime in a bit: > An expert :) > On Mac OS X, "developer tools" is essentially synonymous with "Xcode". > That is, to get the set of standard utilities needed for development > on compiled executables (notably the "binutils"), you install Xcode. > True, it also includes the IDE called Xcode, but the vast bulk [...] Remember everyone: install just the system tools and dev tools (only haskell required parts), and your install is 1 or 2 GB instead of 11GB. > As several have pointed out, you can download Xcode for free. It turns out this is true. It's very hard to find the dl link to an XCode that doesn't require Lion, but it actually is there. > (I haven't bought a new Air... > yet... but perhaps someone can check to see if the Xcode installer is > one the SSD volume already?) > It doesn't, and it's not on the USB restore disk either. > It is conceivably possible to build and distribute some of those > tools, but not the whole bundle. But the difficulty of getting such a > build just right, and all the pieces in the right place, seems absurd > to attempt to recreate when Apple has done it, and gives it away for > free. Apple's versions of bintools also includes many extensions extra > options for the OS X environment (like supporting multi-arch binaries) > Finally, there is also licensing questions regarding the parts > supplied by the OS vendor (headers, stub libs, debug libs, etc) > So in response to the question "is there a way to install the HP without XCode?" the answer is pretty much no. Ok. It's a shame, but thanks for the insight! Thanks, Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
Hiho - I'm the maintainer of the Mac installer for HP. I thought I'd chime in a bit: On Mac OS X, "developer tools" is essentially synonymous with "Xcode". That is, to get the set of standard utilities needed for development on compiled executables (notably the "binutils"), you install Xcode. True, it also includes the IDE called Xcode, but the vast bulk of that installation are things like headers, link libraries, command line tools, and other utilities for development of compiled executables in general. As several have pointed out, you can download Xcode for free. If you have Lion, you can get Xcode 4 for free from the Mac Store. Xcode 3 for 10.6 and 10.5. Traditionally, Apple has included Xcode on one of the CD-ROMs that came with a new computer, and/or as an installer already present on the hard disk. (I haven't bought a new Air... yet... but perhaps someone can check to see if the Xcode installer is one the SSD volume already?) It is conceivably possible to build and distribute some of those tools, but not the whole bundle. But the difficulty of getting such a build just right, and all the pieces in the right place, seems absurd to attempt to recreate when Apple has done it, and gives it away for free. Apple's versions of bintools also includes many extensions extra options for the OS X environment (like supporting multi-arch binaries) Finally, there is also licensing questions regarding the parts supplied by the OS vendor (headers, stub libs, debug libs, etc) Given the above, perhaps it is a little more clear why we choose to not include the system development tools in the Haskell Platform installer. - Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Tom Murphy wrote: > +1 - does anyone know the answer to this? > > On Jul 27, 2011 2:04 PM, "Chris Smith" wrote: >> On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 07:20 -0400, Jack Henahan wrote: >>> Bundling things with the HP is just going to bloat that download >>> and confuse new users more (and my god, the dep-chasing... the >>> number of libs that might have to be piled in on top of it could >>> be absurd). >> >> I don't understand this. Are you saying it would be too hard for the >> Haskell Platform maintainers to build the install kits? It seems like >> bundling gcc would be just the thing to solve all the problems with the >> XCode dependency (which I'm now told include not just the install-time >> dependencies, but also the Haskell Platform regularly breaking with >> every new operating system release). Has anyone ever (say, in the last 5 years) maintained a separate gcc distribution for the Mac? I'm unaware of any such production. Even MacPorts requires the developer tools to be preinstalled: http://www.macports.org/install.php In contrast, Windows has both the MinGW and Cygwin projects which each provide a port of gcc with a (partial or complete) POSIX compatibility layer. GHC and the HP include MinGW on Windows. The Mac developer community at large has determined that the most programmer-friendly option is to just install the free tools provided by Apple: - Every DVD of OS X has come with an optional install of the Dev Tools. The only exception is 10.7, which has to be downloaded itself anyway. - I just double-checked on developer.apple.com; with my free registration I can still download every version of the Developer Tools since at least 2004. Even the latest, Xcode 4.1, can be downloaded directly from that site without logging into the App Store. As a side anecdote, I've been the teaching assistant several times for a college course on introductory C++. I've told my students with Macs that if they want to write programs at home they should install the Dev Tools, and I've posted a short list of instructions on my website. Nearly all of them have found it very easy to get started working in Xcode, either by installing it from a DVD or by downloading it from online. Best, -Judah ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
+1 - does anyone know the answer to this? On Jul 27, 2011 2:04 PM, "Chris Smith" wrote: > On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 07:20 -0400, Jack Henahan wrote: >> Bundling things with the HP is just going to bloat that download >> and confuse new users more (and my god, the dep-chasing... the >> number of libs that might have to be piled in on top of it could >> be absurd). > > I don't understand this. Are you saying it would be too hard for the > Haskell Platform maintainers to build the install kits? It seems like > bundling gcc would be just the thing to solve all the problems with the > XCode dependency (which I'm now told include not just the install-time > dependencies, but also the Haskell Platform regularly breaking with > every new operating system release). > > -- > Chris Smith > > > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 28 July 2011 03:58, Chris Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 08:27 +0100, Tim Cowlishaw wrote: >> (Perhaps wandering slightly O/T, but...) Having done some teaching in >> similar circumstances before (although not with Haskell), I'd highly >> recommend this approach. In fact, I'd probably have all the students, >> regardless of OS install VMWare or VirtualBox, and then distribute a >> VM image with the Haskell Platform and any other tools they need >> preinstalled. > > Thanks for the advice. I'd like to avoid this, because I want to leave > the students with the impression that they have the tools to do their > own programming for their own computers when they finish... but at least > it's an option that lets Mac users have a working environment of some > sort. I've never had any problems with the Windows installation of the > HP, and I'm knowledgeable enough to help with Linux, so I'm not worried > about those. I've tutored a Haskell course for the past two years at ANU (it's gone on for longer though) and students generally don't have a problem getting it working. There is a week or two when we have to track down all the OSX stuff (i.e. where is XCode, etc.) though it helps that Alex Mason also tutored it and uses OSX. Then comes the fun part where students are told to set up their editing environment on the uni Linux machines to set tabs to 4 literal spaces, etc. but never seem to remember to do so for their Windows machines... ;-) -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Jul 27, 2011 3:30 AM, "Sean Leather" wrote: >> >> To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... >> > > ... will check out the related discussion: > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/89745 > I remember this thread from last month, but several of the details have changed (availability of the $5 XCode in App Store, for example). Thanks for your time, Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 07:20 -0400, Jack Henahan wrote: > Bundling things with the HP is just going to bloat that download > and confuse new users more (and my god, the dep-chasing... the > number of libs that might have to be piled in on top of it could > be absurd). I don't understand this. Are you saying it would be too hard for the Haskell Platform maintainers to build the install kits? It seems like bundling gcc would be just the thing to solve all the problems with the XCode dependency (which I'm now told include not just the install-time dependencies, but also the Haskell Platform regularly breaking with every new operating system release). -- Chris Smith ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 08:27 +0100, Tim Cowlishaw wrote: > (Perhaps wandering slightly O/T, but...) Having done some teaching in > similar circumstances before (although not with Haskell), I'd highly > recommend this approach. In fact, I'd probably have all the students, > regardless of OS install VMWare or VirtualBox, and then distribute a > VM image with the Haskell Platform and any other tools they need > preinstalled. Thanks for the advice. I'd like to avoid this, because I want to leave the students with the impression that they have the tools to do their own programming for their own computers when they finish... but at least it's an option that lets Mac users have a working environment of some sort. I've never had any problems with the Windows installation of the HP, and I'm knowledgeable enough to help with Linux, so I'm not worried about those. -- Chris ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac - old XCodeversions
Quoth Clive Brettingham-Moore , >> To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... >> > I had quite a hunt recently to find the most recent XCode for my > not-so-recent mac... so I'll share what I found: Were you able to look on your install CD? Donn ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/mac/index.action Go there. Log in (free account). Download Xcode 3.2.6. If you want the full complement of blessed UNIX-y tools, you have to get Xcode. Bundling things with the HP is just going to bloat that download and confuse new users more (and my god, the dep-chasing... the number of libs that might have to be piled in on top of it could be absurd). The Dev Tools are standard fare for most everything now. They're my first install on a new system. As much as I would love to be able to just install the "UNIX Development" tree (really just hardlinks from the Developer folder) and skip all the "Xcode Essentials" tree, that's just not how it's set up. Apple has to appeal to the masses, and the masses are writing iPhone apps and C in an IDE. 3.2.6 is your best bet now, anyway, since Xcode 4 introduced one or two annoying kinks (though no breakages unless you use 4.2). Also, remind me never to post to the list right after work. I worry I come off as not a very nice person, at all. :/ On Jul 27, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Sean Leather wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 05:55, Tom Murphy wrote: > This may sound ignorant because, well, it is ignorant: I know very > little about the underlying mechanics here. > > Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. > > To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... > > ... will check out the related discussion: > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/89745 > > Regards, > Sean > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Jack Henahan jhena...@uvm.edu == Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. -- Edsger Dijkstra == 398E692F.gpg Description: application/apple-msg-attachment PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac - old XCode versions
> To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... > I had quite a hunt recently to find the most recent XCode for my not-so-recent mac... so I'll share what I found: If you are a registered developer (free reg is fine) with apple go to http://connect.apple.com/ Hit the link to developer tools, and you will find a fairly comprehensive set of XCode versions. Then you just have to work out the latest one for your OS (3.1.4 for Leopard; I assume any 3.2 is fine with SL; looks like 4.0 is missing from list as jumps to 4.1 for Lion). Not that it solves the 4G download for 3.2.x, but hopefully useful for anyone looking older versions, which can be quite difficult to find if you try to navigate from developer.apple.com. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
XCode 4.1 is free on the Mac App Store; but that requires OSX 10.7; they seem to have removed Xcode 4 that used to be $5 there. I can still download Xcode 4 on my developer account, but that isn't available to people who don't pay up. I think Apple is making a good case here for bundling gcc and friends with Haskell Platform. Niklas 2011/7/27 Chris Smith : > Okay, you're all scaring me again. I'm supposed to be teaching a class > this next school year, on Haskell programming, to middle schoolers aged > 12 to 13. Some of the students will be using Macs, and I'm again very > confused about the situation of the Haskell platform on MacOS. There > are different installation requirements for different versions of the > operating system? Is there a good complete source somewhere for > information on how to get this installed, across different versions of > MacOS, with a minimum of needing people to have the install disks that > came with their computer? > > Alternatively, maybe it would it be easier to have the Mac users install > VMWare's free version and I can just have them install Windows or Linux > in that? Or does it also have weird dependency issues like this, too? > > -- > Chris Smith > > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 05:55, Tom Murphy wrote: > This may sound ignorant because, well, it is ignorant: I know very > little about the underlying mechanics here. > > Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. > > To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... > ... will check out the related discussion: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/89745 Regards, Sean ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Chris Smith wrote: > Alternatively, maybe it would it be easier to have the Mac users install > VMWare's free version and I can just have them install Windows or Linux > in that? Or does it also have weird dependency issues like this, too? (Perhaps wandering slightly O/T, but...) Having done some teaching in similar circumstances before (although not with Haskell), I'd highly recommend this approach. In fact, I'd probably have all the students, regardless of OS install VMWare or VirtualBox, and then distribute a VM image with the Haskell Platform and any other tools they need preinstalled. It means a bit of extra preparation, but it'll allow you to get to the interesting bit of the class more quickly and with less frustration on the part of both yourself and your students. Hope this helps. Chers, Tim ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
Okay, you're all scaring me again. I'm supposed to be teaching a class this next school year, on Haskell programming, to middle schoolers aged 12 to 13. Some of the students will be using Macs, and I'm again very confused about the situation of the Haskell platform on MacOS. There are different installation requirements for different versions of the operating system? Is there a good complete source somewhere for information on how to get this installed, across different versions of MacOS, with a minimum of needing people to have the install disks that came with their computer? Alternatively, maybe it would it be easier to have the Mac users install VMWare's free version and I can just have them install Windows or Linux in that? Or does it also have weird dependency issues like this, too? -- Chris Smith ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
27/07/2011 4:25 PM, Tom Murphy kirjutas: > On 7/27/11, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > >> A quick web search for "Mac OS X gcc binary" turned up >> http://hpc.sourceforge.net/index.php >> with binary releases of GCC 4.6 for Lion and Snow Leopard. >> >> This requires "Developer Tools", but that isn't XCode, and it's >> on the OS X DVD. >> > > "Developer Tools" is actually what the HP requires. I think it might > be under the XCode umbrella. Still, the Macbook Air doesn't come with > an install for XCode or Developer Tools. > > How can gcc require this stuff, though? Doesn't gcc pre-date all of > this stuff by a decade and a half? I believe it's to link in with all the very Mac-specific APIs and so on. Perhaps only OS X knows how to link a binary just right, or something. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 7/27/11, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > A quick web search for "Mac OS X gcc binary" turned up > http://hpc.sourceforge.net/index.php > with binary releases of GCC 4.6 for Lion and Snow Leopard. > > This requires "Developer Tools", but that isn't XCode, and it's > on the OS X DVD. > "Developer Tools" is actually what the HP requires. I think it might be under the XCode umbrella. Still, the Macbook Air doesn't come with an install for XCode or Developer Tools. How can gcc require this stuff, though? Doesn't gcc pre-date all of this stuff by a decade and a half? Thanks for your time, Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
27/07/2011 3:27 PM, Maciej Wos kirjutas: > If you're using Lion you can get Xcode from the App Store (Apple used > to charge something for it, but now it is free). > > If you're using Snow Leopard you can download Xcode from > developer.apple.com/xcode. See "Looking for Xcode 3? Download Now" in > the bottom right corner of the page. You need to register with Apple > but you don't need the paid developer account. It's also included on the OS X CDs IIRC. A ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
If you're using Lion you can get Xcode from the App Store (Apple used to charge something for it, but now it is free). If you're using Snow Leopard you can download Xcode from developer.apple.com/xcode. See "Looking for Xcode 3? Download Now" in the bottom right corner of the page. You need to register with Apple but you don't need the paid developer account. -- Maciej On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Tom Murphy wrote: > This may sound ignorant because, well, it is ignorant: I know very > little about the underlying mechanics here. > > Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. > > To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... > > [*** begin ranty details (skippable) > > ... was told I could get a free version by registering as an Apple Developer. > So I lie on the forms (phone number and address, for example, are > _required_ fields!), and lie on the _required_ 2-3 page survey. > I put in a code that they sent to my email (couldn't lie on that!), and log > in. > The page tells me, in the exact box that told me if I registered I > could get XCode for free, that I... > > *** end ranty details] > > ...have to either pay to upgrade to their newer OS (10.7: Lion), or > pay $99/year for a Mac OS Developer Membership. > > Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the > future? I'm tired of dealing with Apple's constant upgrade > requirements, registration requirements, etc., and it seems like a > small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development > "toolchain." > Again, I'm ignorant of the details and I'm sorry if this is ranty, but > I'd love to hear your reactions. > > Thanks! > Tom > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 27/07/2011, at 4:24 PM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: >> >> If this is the case, couldn't the HP use gcc instead? I'd personally >> advocate gcc as standard, not as a workaround, because >> a) gcc is FOSS. >> b) XCode is 4GB and its functionality is basically orthogonal to the >> needs of Haskell developers. > > Yes, but AFAIK to get gcc for OSX you get it from XCode :/ A quick web search for "Mac OS X gcc binary" turned up http://hpc.sourceforge.net/index.php with binary releases of GCC 4.6 for Lion and Snow Leopard. This requires "Developer Tools", but that isn't XCode, and it's on the OS X DVD. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 27 July 2011 14:18, Tom Murphy wrote: > On 7/27/11, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: >>> >>> Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. >>> >>> To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... >> >> My understanding is that it's about $5 (though I seem to recall >> hearing that they recently made it free), but I don't use OSX so I >> can't really help you. >> > > The choices Apple's given me are OS X 10.7 ($30), or Developer Account > ($99/1 year). I don't see XCode available for sale without one of > these two. Apparently it's now in the Mac App store: http://developer.apple.com/xcode/ > >>> Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the >>> future? [...] it seems like a >>> small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development >>> "toolchain." >> >> A C compiler (specifically gcc; not sure if anyone has tried GHC with >> clang yet). Whilst GHC doesn't need to go via C any more, the Haskell >> Platform does come with some libraries that have a C component; GHC is >> also partly written in C (for the RTS if memory serves) though that >> shouldn't be a factor here as you're getting a binary. >> > > If this is the case, couldn't the HP use gcc instead? I'd personally > advocate gcc as standard, not as a workaround, because > a) gcc is FOSS. > b) XCode is 4GB and its functionality is basically orthogonal to the > needs of Haskell developers. Yes, but AFAIK to get gcc for OSX you get it from XCode :/ -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 7/27/11, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: >> >> Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. >> >> To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... > > My understanding is that it's about $5 (though I seem to recall > hearing that they recently made it free), but I don't use OSX so I > can't really help you. > The choices Apple's given me are OS X 10.7 ($30), or Developer Account ($99/1 year). I don't see XCode available for sale without one of these two. >> Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the >> future? [...] it seems like a >> small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development >> "toolchain." > > A C compiler (specifically gcc; not sure if anyone has tried GHC with > clang yet). Whilst GHC doesn't need to go via C any more, the Haskell > Platform does come with some libraries that have a C component; GHC is > also partly written in C (for the RTS if memory serves) though that > shouldn't be a factor here as you're getting a binary. > If this is the case, couldn't the HP use gcc instead? I'd personally advocate gcc as standard, not as a workaround, because a) gcc is FOSS. b) XCode is 4GB and its functionality is basically orthogonal to the needs of Haskell developers. Thanks for your time, Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
On 27 July 2011 13:55, Tom Murphy wrote: > This may sound ignorant because, well, it is ignorant: I know very > little about the underlying mechanics here. > > Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. > > To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... My understanding is that it's about $5 (though I seem to recall hearing that they recently made it free), but I don't use OSX so I can't really help you. > Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the > future? I'm tired of dealing with Apple's constant upgrade > requirements, registration requirements, etc., and it seems like a > small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development > "toolchain." A C compiler (specifically gcc; not sure if anyone has tried GHC with clang yet). Whilst GHC doesn't need to go via C any more, the Haskell Platform does come with some libraries that have a C component; GHC is also partly written in C (for the RTS if memory serves) though that shouldn't be a factor here as you're getting a binary. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] XCode Dependency for HP on Mac
This may sound ignorant because, well, it is ignorant: I know very little about the underlying mechanics here. Installing the Haskell Platform currently requires XCode developer tools. To get XCode on my 10.6 machine, I... [*** begin ranty details (skippable) ... was told I could get a free version by registering as an Apple Developer. So I lie on the forms (phone number and address, for example, are _required_ fields!), and lie on the _required_ 2-3 page survey. I put in a code that they sent to my email (couldn't lie on that!), and log in. The page tells me, in the exact box that told me if I registered I could get XCode for free, that I... *** end ranty details] ...have to either pay to upgrade to their newer OS (10.7: Lion), or pay $99/year for a Mac OS Developer Membership. Is there a way to install HP without XCode? Could there be in the future? I'm tired of dealing with Apple's constant upgrade requirements, registration requirements, etc., and it seems like a small function that XCode actually performs in the Haskell development "toolchain." Again, I'm ignorant of the details and I'm sorry if this is ranty, but I'd love to hear your reactions. Thanks! Tom ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
