Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
First, I can't resist saying that as it seems to have taken a full decade for members of this group to perceive a significant lack, it seems the decision to drop the book was a good one! That aside, the vast majority of customers install z/OS using ServerPac. ServerPac, in turn, provides far more information about data set allocation and data set requirements than System Data Set Definition ever did, and does so for other products' data sets that were never described by that book in the first place. It even does it in a way that allows you to generate and save lists of interesting data sets, including those required or eligible for LPA, link list, and APF. Samples to allocate them all can be extracted from the ALLOCDS job you saved in the SCPPBENU data set (you did do that, right?) or can re-generate if needed, and they are kept 100% current with product content and tested every time a new product is added to the ServerPac ordering checklist. For z/OS itself, the z/OS Program Directory includes detailed information about data set attributes and sizes required for installation. The other data sets needed to run the system are, for the most part*, documented in various books, as should be true for other products you might have (such as DB2, CICS, and IMS). That the allocation information for the STGINDEX data set happens not to be documented was an unfortunate oversight. I've already asked someone to fix that. * I'd have said all, once, but since we know we missed one, I won't. -- John Eells (back from a week off) z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Hi John, I have seen and used the ServerPac resources you mentioned and found them very helpful and useful. What about the majority who do not have access to ServerPac? With role based security these days, many, perhaps most, do not have access. Thanks, Linda Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2014, at 8:22 AM, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com wrote: First, I can't resist saying that as it seems to have taken a full decade for members of this group to perceive a significant lack, it seems the decision to drop the book was a good one! That aside, the vast majority of customers install z/OS using ServerPac. ServerPac, in turn, provides far more information about data set allocation and data set requirements than System Data Set Definition ever did, and does so for other products' data sets that were never described by that book in the first place. It even does it in a way that allows you to generate and save lists of interesting data sets, including those required or eligible for LPA, link list, and APF. Samples to allocate them all can be extracted from the ALLOCDS job you saved in the SCPPBENU data set (you did do that, right?) or can re-generate if needed, and they are kept 100% current with product content and tested every time a new product is added to the ServerPac ordering checklist. For z/OS itself, the z/OS Program Directory includes detailed information about data set attributes and sizes required for installation. The other data sets needed to run the system are, for the most part*, documented in various books, as should be true for other products you might have (such as DB2, CICS, and IMS). That the allocation information for the STGINDEX data set happens not to be documented was an unfortunate oversight. I've already asked someone to fix that. * I'd have said all, once, but since we know we missed one, I won't. -- John Eells (back from a week off) z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Once the data sets have all been allocated for the first time, for most things you can model after one that exists and tweak as needed. But for formal documentation, people without READ access to the ServerPac data sets *should* be able to find allocation information for individual data sets in other places. It's just not all together in one place. If a particular data set's information is missing--as is currently the case for STGINDEX--please submit an RCF! (As a side note, I'd hope--perhaps in vain--that people in sysprog roles who share responsibility for products installed with ServerPac share at least READ access to the associated ServerPac data sets even in a role-based security model environment. They surely have a need to know what they contain to fulfill their roles. But when I was a sysprog my batting average vs. security auditors was probably less than .500, so what do I know?) However, let's take a step back. Looking at the TOC for the SDSD book (http://publibfp.dhe.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea2g500.pdf), I find that, if I counted correctly, it then described 62 data sets. Four are likely obsolete. There are well over 1,000 target libraries and operational data sets associated with a z/OS system. If the book existed now in its older form, it would represent less than 10% of the total (and perhaps less than 5%). linda.lst...@comcast.net (Linda) wrote: Hi John, I have seen and used the ServerPac resources you mentioned and found them very helpful and useful. What about the majority who do not have access to ServerPac? With role based security these days, many, perhaps most, do not have access. snip -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Hi John, It is management that approves access - or not! And if IBM packs documentation that appears to be only for the installer, that is who it is for, paraphrasing here. sigh. Just the way it is. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:03 PM, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com wrote: Once the data sets have all been allocated for the first time, for most things you can model after one that exists and tweak as needed. But for formal documentation, people without READ access to the ServerPac data sets *should* be able to find allocation information for individual data sets in other places. It's just not all together in one place. If a particular data set's information is missing--as is currently the case for STGINDEX--please submit an RCF! (As a side note, I'd hope--perhaps in vain--that people in sysprog roles who share responsibility for products installed with ServerPac share at least READ access to the associated ServerPac data sets even in a role-based security model environment. They surely have a need to know what they contain to fulfill their roles. But when I was a sysprog my batting average vs. security auditors was probably less than .500, so what do I know?) However, let's take a step back. Looking at the TOC for the SDSD book (http://publibfp.dhe.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea2g500.pdf), I find that, if I counted correctly, it then described 62 data sets. Four are likely obsolete. There are well over 1,000 target libraries and operational data sets associated with a z/OS system. If the book existed now in its older form, it would represent less than 10% of the total (and perhaps less than 5%). linda.lst...@comcast.net (Linda) wrote: Hi John, I have seen and used the ServerPac resources you mentioned and found them very helpful and useful. What about the majority who do not have access to ServerPac? With role based security these days, many, perhaps most, do not have access. snip -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Hi, Is this the manual you're thinking of? SC23-6855-02z/OS (2.1) DFSMS Using Data Sets - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3d402.pdf Best regards, Cheryl == Cheryl Watson Watson Walker, Inc. www.watsonwalker.com cell text: 941-266-6609 == On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:02 AM, nitz-...@gmx.net nitz-...@gmx.net wrote: When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf SA22-7629-00 says First Edition, March 2001. I have either always copied it over in .boo format or this was contained in some sort of 'release DVD' when I downloaded the next release. There isn't a similar book in the pdf collection for 2.1 I downloaded using the same steps. Maybe IBM thinks we don't need System Data Set Definitions anymore? Or all system data sets are now defined using clicking and z/OSMF, no need for actual information anymore since the system will know what to do? :-) Barbara -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Cheryl, No, they're talking about a book that describes the SYS1.* datasets. I found an old copy online: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea1g510.pdf In article 26cfc99c-f886-46db-9e93-baf552eeb...@gmail.com you wrote: Hi, Is this the manual you're thinking of? SC23-6855-02z/OS (2.1) DFSMS Using Data Sets - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3d402.pdf Best regards, Cheryl == Cheryl Watson Watson Walker, Inc. www.watsonwalker.com cell text: 941-266-6609 == On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:02 AM, nitz-...@gmx.net nitz-...@gmx.net wrote: When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf SA22-7629-00 says First Edition, March 2001. I have either always copied it over in .boo format or this was contained in some sort of 'release DVD' when I downloaded the next release. There isn't a similar book in the pdf collection for 2.1 I downloaded using the same steps. Maybe IBM thinks we don't need System Data Set Definitions anymore? Or all system data sets are now defined using clicking and z/OSMF, no need for actual information anymore since the system will know what to do? :-) Barbara -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
From looking at the old iealg510 manual, it really would need a lot of work to make it more accurate. It should mention all system data sets that have special requirements - e.g., must be cataloged in Master Catalog, must be on the SYSRES or the IPL volume, must be PDS not PDSE, must exist but is not a an SMP/E target library, must have a specific name (even if only by default), and data sets that must have some minimal installation customization just to get a system up. To me, that ought to include (which manual IEA1G510 does not) at least a terse explanation of Page Data Sets, which are neither required to be SYS1 or on a specific volume, and perhaps should not include (which IEA1G510 does) the various *CLI0, *SKEL0, *MSG0, *PNL0, *PENU, *TBL0, *TENU, etc. data sets required for specific ISPF applications (and which do not really have any special requirements). True, you must have the SCBD* ISPF application data sets to do hardware configuration, and SBLS* data sets to diagnose system failures. but are they worthy of any greater honor than the SMPE target data sets required to make ISPF itself functional? Just a quick spot check of the description of SYS1.BRODCAST reveals it hasn't been updated to reflect the use of User Logs as an alternative to SYS1.BRODCAST for TSO user messages, a feature that has been available for some years. That makes me suspect other topics in IEA1G510 may be similarly in need of revision and perhaps the magnitude of that task is why the manual was dropped. Perhaps all of the information in IEA1G510 is now available somewhere else in bits and pieces, but it was nice to have it all collected in one place as an overview. If not in a separate manual, perhaps this might be a candidate for a long topic or appendix in something like the z/OS Basics manual or some volume of ABCs of z/OS System Programming. There is (or at least used to be) a very short topic in ABCs of z/OS System Programming, Vol 2 on System Data Sets, but it seems to me incomplete (see above) and only mentions data set names, not their purpose or any unique requirements that must be observed. Joel C. Ewing On 11/24/2014 08:49 AM, Don Poitras wrote: Cheryl, No, they're talking about a book that describes the SYS1.* datasets. I found an old copy online: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea1g510.pdf In article 26cfc99c-f886-46db-9e93-baf552eeb...@gmail.com you wrote: Hi, Is this the manual you're thinking of? SC23-6855-02z/OS (2.1) DFSMS Using Data Sets - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3d402.pdf Best regards, Cheryl == Cheryl Watson Watson Walker, Inc. www.watsonwalker.com cell text: 941-266-6609 == On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:02 AM, nitz-...@gmx.net nitz-...@gmx.net wrote: When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf SA22-7629-00 says First Edition, March 2001. I have either always copied it over in .boo format or this was contained in some sort of 'release DVD' when I downloaded the next release. There isn't a similar book in the pdf collection for 2.1 I downloaded using the same steps. Maybe IBM thinks we don't need System Data Set Definitions anymore? Or all system data sets are now defined using clicking and z/OSMF, no need for actual information anymore since the system will know what to do? :-) Barbara -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Hi Don, Thanks for the manual. I remember that one now. I just checked with IBM, and here's what they said: Our records show that z/OS MVS System Data Set Definition was removed on August 24, 2004. Here's the explanation: Deleted: z/OS MVS System Data Set Definition, SA22-7629: Information about system data sets is available with the information sent with the z/OS install package. There is no replacement reference for MVS System Data Set Definition, except for references to cataloging. In that one instance, the reader should be referred to: z/OS DFSMS Managing Catalogs, SC26-7409. Since I haven't seen a z/OS install package in years, I don't know what that would contain. Best regards, Cheryl == Cheryl Watson Watson Walker, Inc. www.watsonwalker.com cell text: 941-266-6609 == On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:49 AM, Don Poitras poit...@pobox.com wrote: Cheryl, No, they're talking about a book that describes the SYS1.* datasets. I found an old copy online: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/iea1g510.pdf In article 26cfc99c-f886-46db-9e93-baf552eeb...@gmail.com you wrote: Hi, Is this the manual you're thinking of? SC23-6855-02z/OS (2.1) DFSMS Using Data Sets - http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3d402.pdf Best regards, Cheryl == Cheryl Watson Watson Walker, Inc. www.watsonwalker.com cell text: 941-266-6609 == On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:02 AM, nitz-...@gmx.net nitz-...@gmx.net wrote: When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf SA22-7629-00 says First Edition, March 2001. I have either always copied it over in .boo format or this was contained in some sort of 'release DVD' when I downloaded the next release. There isn't a similar book in the pdf collection for 2.1 I downloaded using the same steps. Maybe IBM thinks we don't need System Data Set Definitions anymore? Or all system data sets are now defined using clicking and z/OSMF, no need for actual information anymore since the system will know what to do? :-) Barbara -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
Deleted: z/OS MVS System Data Set Definition, SA22-7629: Information about system data sets is available with the information sent with the z/OS install package. There is no replacement reference for MVS System Data Set Definition, except for references to cataloging. In that one instance, the reader should be referred to: z/OS DFSMS Managing Catalogs, SC26-7409. I have seen an 'install package' exactly once in my almost 30 years of z/OS, but I have been asked to check any number of system data set allocations and make them better. Using an 'install package' (where exactly would all of that be documented?) is an excuse to drop a useful book. And having gone through a recataloging exercise for a full system recently, I can state that the docs for indirect cataloging are mostly opaque. Everything is in there, no question about it, but it is decribed so that I ran into all kinds of problems until I figured out how this actually should be set in loadxx, ieasymxx and the catalog. Once I knew how to do it, I could see that it was stated there, but not before. Barbara -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf SA22-7629-00 says First Edition, March 2001. I have either always copied it over in .boo format or this was contained in some sort of 'release DVD' when I downloaded the next release. There isn't a similar book in the pdf collection for 2.1 I downloaded using the same steps. Maybe IBM thinks we don't need System Data Set Definitions anymore? Or all system data sets are now defined using clicking and z/OSMF, no need for actual information anymore since the system will know what to do? :-) Barbara -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Hunkeler Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 11:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful? As the System Data Set Definition book hasn't been published in rather a long time ... Why is this? Isn't this a valuable book for those new to z/OS (and for us old guys with shrinking memories as well)? IBM makes us believe how serious they take it to get new people aboard on z/OS. Good, extensive documentation has aways be one strength of z/OS (and it predecesors). IBM should stop (silently) droping documentation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
When did it last exist? I have V1R10 docs here and I don't see it. I found one in the z/OS V1.1 bookshelf -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Why is the System Data Sets book no longer deemed useful?
As the System Data Set Definition book hasn't been published in rather a long time ... Why is this? Isn't this a valuable book for those new to z/OS (and for us old guys with shrinking memories as well)? IBM makes us believe how serious they take it to get new people aboard on z/OS. Good, extensive documentation has aways be one strength of z/OS (and it predecesors). IBM should stop (silently) droping documentation. -- Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
