Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

 Compressed file uploaded, three lyx files and a readme.

Gordon.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=08562232551680285966 



On 11/21/2015 08:41 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Gordon Cooper
 wrote:


On 11/21/2015 09:01 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 20/11/15 20:57, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

Am using Compare right now and have not had a repeat of the
reported problem.

Found a small error,  here are the related extracts.  Note that the
   numbered lines were correctly classed as Enumerate in both texts.


Hi Gordon,

The best for us would be if you could send two .lyx files with the
respective texts, and the difference file. I it possible in this case ?

JMarc

HI JMarc,
 That was the query I had before. Together, the three files
amount to
nearly 1400 kilobytes.  Is that too large to send to the list?


If this is public info that you can safely share with the internet,
then one easy solution is to upload them to some free service like
http://tinyupload.com/ , and then simply paste the links here.

Regards,
Liviu



I can work with the problems in Compare, they are not major - except for the
losing synch error that is hard to replicate - and by having the three
files, old,
new and differences loaded together, it  is easy to use the differences only
as a
guide and copy & paste between new and old texts.

Gordon.

Gordon

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 20/11/2015 23:34, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

HI JMarc,
 That was the query I had before. Together, the three
files amount to
nearly 1400 kilobytes.  Is that too large to send to the list?


I would propose to attach a compressed version to ticket 
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/6889


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Gordon Cooper
 wrote:
>
>
> On 11/21/2015 09:01 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>>
>> Le 20/11/15 20:57, Gordon Cooper a écrit :
>>>
>>>Am using Compare right now and have not had a repeat of the
>>> reported problem.
>>>
>>>Found a small error,  here are the related extracts.  Note that the
>>>   numbered lines were correctly classed as Enumerate in both texts.
>>
>>
>> Hi Gordon,
>>
>> The best for us would be if you could send two .lyx files with the
>> respective texts, and the difference file. I it possible in this case ?
>>
>> JMarc
>
> HI JMarc,
> That was the query I had before. Together, the three files
> amount to
> nearly 1400 kilobytes.  Is that too large to send to the list?
>
If this is public info that you can safely share with the internet,
then one easy solution is to upload them to some free service like
http://tinyupload.com/ , and then simply paste the links here.

Regards,
Liviu


> I can work with the problems in Compare, they are not major - except for the
> losing synch error that is hard to replicate - and by having the three
> files, old,
> new and differences loaded together, it  is easy to use the differences only
> as a
> guide and copy & paste between new and old texts.
>
> Gordon.
>
> Gordon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
Do you think you know what math is?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/ian-stewart-2013-08-02
Or what it means to be intelligent?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/john-duncan-2013-08-30
Think again:
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/library

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

On 11/21/2015 09:01 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 20/11/15 20:57, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

   Am using Compare right now and have not had a repeat of the
reported problem.

   Found a small error,  here are the related extracts.  Note that the
  numbered lines were correctly classed as Enumerate in both texts.


Hi Gordon,

The best for us would be if you could send two .lyx files with the 
respective texts, and the difference file. I it possible in this case ?


JMarc

HI JMarc,
That was the query I had before. Together, the three 
files amount to

nearly 1400 kilobytes.  Is that too large to send to the list?

I can work with the problems in Compare, they are not major - except for the
losing synch error that is hard to replicate - and by having the three 
files, old,
new and differences loaded together, it  is easy to use the differences 
only as a

guide and copy & paste between new and old texts.

Gordon.

Gordon

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 20/11/15 20:57, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

   Am using Compare right now and have not had a repeat of the
reported problem.

   Found a small error,  here are the related extracts.  Note that the
  numbered lines were correctly classed as Enumerate in both texts.


Hi Gordon,

The best for us would be if you could send two .lyx files with the 
respective texts, and the difference file. I it possible in this case ?


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

  Am using Compare right now and have not had a repeat of the
reported problem.

  Found a small error,  here are the related extracts.  Note that the
 numbered lines were correctly classed as Enumerate in both texts.

1. /Original lines/:


   "3.6.3 Troubleshooting

 * No sound, though speaker icon is in the Notification Area.
 o Try raising all controls to a higher level.
 o Edit the configuration file directly: see Section 7.4.
 * No sound, and no speaker icon is in the Notification Area. It could
   be that the sound card is missing or unrecognized, but the most
   common problem is that of multiple soundcards, which we address here.
1. Solution 1: click *Start menu > Settings > MX Sound Card*, and
   follow the screen to select and test the card you want to use.
2. Solution 2: use the volume control of PulseAudio (pavucontrol)
   to select the correct sound card
3. Solution 3: enter the BIOS and turn off HDMI"

LyX Document
LyX Document 2. /The update/:


   "3.6.3 Troubleshooting

 * No sound, though speaker icon is in the Notification Area.
 o Try raising all controls to a higher level.
 o Edit the configuration file directly: see Section 7.4.
 * No sound, and no speaker icon is in the Notification Area. It could
   be that the sound card is missing or unrecognized, but the most
   common problem is that of multiple soundcards, which we address here.
1. Solution 1: click *Start menu > Settings > MX Sound Card*, and
   follow the screen to select and test the card you want to use.
2. Solution 2: use the volume control of PulseAudio (pavucontrol)
   to select the correct sound card
3. Solution 3: enter the BIOS and turn off HDMI
4. Check the ALSA sound card matrix listed below."

3. /Differences File/:

LyX Document


   "3.6.3 Troubleshooting renumbers those following

 * No sound, though speaker icon is in the Notification Area.
 o Try raising all controls to a higher level.
 o Edit the configuration file directly: see Section 7.4.
 * No sound, and no speaker icon is in the Notification Area. It could
   be that the sound card is missing or unrecognized, but the most
   common problem is that of multiple soundcards, which we address here.
1. Solution 1: click *Start menu > Settings > MX Sound Card*, and
   follow the screen to select and test the card you want to use.
2. Solution 2: use the volume control of PulseAudio (pavucontrol)
   to select the correct sound card
3. Solution 3: enter the BIOS and turn off HDMI


   3.6.4 Check the ALSA sound card matrix listed below"


  Instead of adding another enumerated line, Compare has created a
  new Subsubsection which then automatically renumbered the following
  Subsubsections.


Just about to work on more comparisons, will report on any errors later.

Gordon
Tauranga N.Z.

LyX Document

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 15/11/2015 03:08, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

Bonjour Jean-Marc,

   I am in the middle of another update using Compare,
and have found a couple of small errors, when the Differences
file  is showing the change incorrectly.  The files are nearly 500 kB
and thus might not be welcome on the Users list.

I can extract the errors and post them as plain text,  send the
complete files as an attachment,  or send the files directly to you.


Dear Gordon, please keep discussions on the list, it is easier for 
others to follow.


You can directly send a pair of file to me, but the best of course would 
be to build small documents that exhibit problems, if you can do that.


I suspect that your problem is http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/6889

I turns out that the original author of Compare is busy right now, and 
that nobody else knows the code. Yet, if a determined user could 
describe when the problem occurs and when it does not, we might be able 
to do something in some common cases.


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
 wrote:
> Le 16/11/2015 10:14, Liviu Andronic a écrit :
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 14/11/2015 19:05, Gordon Cooper a écrit :


 Certainly, will do.  Files are a software manual and readily
 available.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. Of course, we can't guarantee that we will find a fix, but we
>>> have
>>> to try at least...
>>>
>> I recall reading some time ago that if we switched the LyX source to
>> valid XML, our diff troubles would evaporate (along with a number of
>> other difficulties, like epub conversion).
>
>
> I'm not sure, but indeed one can expect that a xmldiff tool exists somewhere
> and one may hope that it is correctly implemented :)
>
A quick search for "xmldiff" suggests that we'd be more hard-pressed
to choose one, rather than find one:
https://www.logilab.org/859/
http://diffxml.sourceforge.net/


>> Is this still so? And are
>> we any closer to XML'ing .lyx files?
>
>
> No, we did not move on that. I tend to be suspicious of miraculous
> solutions, though.
>
This article may be relevant when it comes to diffing XML:
http://www.adrianmouat.com/bit-bucket/2009/05/why-use-diffxml/


Liviu



> JMarc
>



-- 
Do you think you know what math is?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/ian-stewart-2013-08-02
Or what it means to be intelligent?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/john-duncan-2013-08-30
Think again:
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/library

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 16/11/2015 10:14, Liviu Andronic a écrit :

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
 wrote:

Le 14/11/2015 19:05, Gordon Cooper a écrit :


Certainly, will do.  Files are a software manual and readily
available.



Thanks. Of course, we can't guarantee that we will find a fix, but we have
to try at least...


I recall reading some time ago that if we switched the LyX source to
valid XML, our diff troubles would evaporate (along with a number of
other difficulties, like epub conversion).


I'm not sure, but indeed one can expect that a xmldiff tool exists 
somewhere and one may hope that it is correctly implemented :)



Is this still so? And are
we any closer to XML'ing .lyx files?


No, we did not move on that. I tend to be suspicious of miraculous 
solutions, though.


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
 wrote:
> Le 14/11/2015 19:05, Gordon Cooper a écrit :
>>
>> Certainly, will do.  Files are a software manual and readily
>> available.
>
>
> Thanks. Of course, we can't guarantee that we will find a fix, but we have
> to try at least...
>
I recall reading some time ago that if we switched the LyX source to
valid XML, our diff troubles would evaporate (along with a number of
other difficulties, like epub conversion). Is this still so? And are
we any closer to XML'ing .lyx files?

Liviu


> JMarc
>



-- 
Do you think you know what math is?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/ian-stewart-2013-08-02
Or what it means to be intelligent?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/john-duncan-2013-08-30
Think again:
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/library

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 14/11/2015 19:05, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

Certainly, will do.  Files are a software manual and readily
available.


Thanks. Of course, we can't guarantee that we will find a fix, but we 
have to try at least...


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 08:35:28PM +0100, Liviu Andronic wrote:
>
>> First you could export .tex, and use a LaTeX diff (or just about any
>> diff around). Otherwise you could export to PDF and use DiffPDF to
>> check out the differences:
>> http://www.qtrac.eu/diffpdf-foss.html
>
> +1 for DiffPDF to see small changes.
> It is in the Ubuntu repo's which is nice.
>
> The oly issue I have with it is that if there are 100 pages and there is
> one line added on page 4 that shifts all of the following pages, then it
> seems like there are changes on all pages when there was just that one
> page.
>
True, this is a frustrating limitation. I vaguely believe the author
has addressed this issue in later versions, but unfortunately they
also switched the program from GPL to a commercial, closed-source
license. The latter is only available for Windows.

Liviu


> Scott



-- 
Do you think you know what math is?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/ian-stewart-2013-08-02
Or what it means to be intelligent?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/john-duncan-2013-08-30
Think again:
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/library

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 08:35:28PM +0100, Liviu Andronic wrote:

> First you could export .tex, and use a LaTeX diff (or just about any
> diff around). Otherwise you could export to PDF and use DiffPDF to
> check out the differences:
> http://www.qtrac.eu/diffpdf-foss.html

+1 for DiffPDF to see small changes.
It is in the Ubuntu repo's which is nice.

The oly issue I have with it is that if there are 100 pages and there is
one line added on page 4 that shifts all of the following pages, then it
seems like there are changes on all pages when there was just that one
page.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

Hello Liviu,

 My use of Compare is fairly frequent.  Document is the User
Manual for an operating system which may be changed/updated
several times a year, then released in html and pdf.

Manual is written in Lyx. My task is producing the pdf and because
of aspect ratio differences between images in html on a screen
and in pdf for possible printing, we have a separate Lyx master
for pdf conversion.  Compare is used to update this master.

Compare is excellent for finding changes, including  minor
punctuation and in hyperlinks. Twice I have had the same
problem as Bert where the synchronisation between documents
is lost and Compare thinks that every character has changed.

Regards,
Gordon.

On 11/16/2015 08:35 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote:


What was the interest for this particular Compare? Did you want to
see/edit changes within LyX, or simply to visualize differences
between files. If it is the latter, then one approach that could help
would be to use an intermediary file.

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Bert Lloyd  wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Thanks for your comments. Just to follow up, as in Gordon's
> experience, when the Compare process did conclude, the result was as
> if every character had changed.
>
What was the interest for this particular Compare? Did you want to
see/edit changes within LyX, or simply to visualize differences
between files. If it is the latter, then one approach that could help
would be to use an intermediary file.

First you could export .tex, and use a LaTeX diff (or just about any
diff around). Otherwise you could export to PDF and use DiffPDF to
check out the differences:
http://www.qtrac.eu/diffpdf-foss.html


I tend to do the latter rather often.

Regards,
Liviu


> Unfortunately I can't share the document publicly.
>
> Best,
> BL



-- 
Do you think you know what math is?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/ian-stewart-2013-08-02
Or what it means to be intelligent?
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/issues/john-duncan-2013-08-30
Think again:
http://www.ideasroadshow.com/library

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Bert Lloyd]

Dear all,

Thanks for your comments. Just to follow up, as in Gordon's
experience, when the Compare process did conclude, the result was as
if every character had changed.

Unfortunately I can't share the document publicly.

Best,
BL

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

Certainly, will do.  Files are a software manual and readily
available.

Gordon.

On 11/15/2015 06:57 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:


If you come up with an example where Compare fails, and if the files 
are not confidential, we'd appreciate to have a copy (at least in 
private if this is better for you).


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 14/11/15 03:17, Gordon Cooper a écrit :

Twice, Compare has behaved as you describe and when I stopped the
process  then restarted it the problem had gone.  I came to the
conclusion that synchronisation had been lost between the two copies,
and that every character was then considered as having changed.

Perhaps that idea is incorrect, but Compare is working properly more
than 90% of the time.


If you come up with an example where Compare fails, and if the files are 
not confidential, we'd appreciate to have a copy (at least in private if 
this is better for you).


JMarc

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Gordon Cooper]

 Dear Bert,
   I have had this problem, without finding the cause. 
I use

Compare quite often on a 100 page document (which has multiple
maintainers and regular updates), and usually, the Differences
file is generated in a few minutes.

Twice, Compare has behaved as you describe and when I stopped the
process  then restarted it the problem had gone.  I came to the
conclusion that synchronisation had been lost between the two copies,
and that every character was then considered as having changed.

Perhaps that idea is incorrect, but Compare is working properly more
than 90% of the time.

Regards,
Gordon.



On 11/14/2015 04:15 AM, Bert Lloyd wrote:

Dear LyX users,

I am attempting to compare two versions of a LyX document using Tools
- Compare. The document is roughly 60,000 characters including spaces,
and my rough estimate is that 5% of the document has been changed
between the two versions.

I suspect I am doing something wrong, because the tool has been
running for over an hour, reports 40,000+ differences, and that it is
0% complete.

Any advice?

Thanks,

BL

PS - LyX 2.1.4 with MikTeX 2.9 on W10 Pro 64-bit.

Re: best practices for Compare feature?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:15:20AM -0500, Bert Lloyd wrote:
> Dear LyX users,
> 
> I am attempting to compare two versions of a LyX document using Tools
> - Compare. The document is roughly 60,000 characters including spaces,
> and my rough estimate is that 5% of the document has been changed
> between the two versions.
> 
> I suspect I am doing something wrong, because the tool has been
> running for over an hour, reports 40,000+ differences, and that it is
> 0% complete.
> 
> Any advice?

I think it is just a difficult feature of LyX to implement correctly.
You can see the current bugs that we are aware of for the comparison
feature here:

http://www.lyx.org/trac/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&summary=~&component=compare&description=~&reporter=~&col=id&col=summary&col=reporter&col=status&col=type&col=severity&col=keywords&desc=1&order=id

If you don't have one of those issues and you can provide a reproducible
example, please make a bug report.

Scott