VIRGIL: RE: teaching Aeneid in translation

2004-01-05 Thread Helen South
What a pleasant start to the working week.

For my part, as a student, I'd prefer a translation that captures the poetry 
rather than the latin, when studying a text in translation. Let us be moved 
by beauty, and forgive the odd mistranslation. I took up Greek when studying 
the Oresteia in translation, and finding a passage incomprehensible, sought 
out another translation; I was astounded to the second translation so far 
removed from the first as to be a different poem. If only Richmond Lattimore 
had been a Latin scholar too.

Has anyone else read the (fairly recent, I think) David West translation of 
the Aeneid? He seems to take quite a lot of liberties with the latin, though 
its readable enough. Day Lewis put me off from the first line - translating 
'Arma uirumque cano'  'I tell of...'

Any other Aussies on the list going to the ASCS conference in Bendigo?

regards
Helen
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VIRGIL: RE: virgil in translation

2004-01-06 Thread Helen South
Vincenzo, I'm afraid my Latin still isn't very good - I'm only halfway 
through second year  - so I struggled for a while with my terrible grammar 
but I probably misunderstand you.  I'm hesitant to express my views, as I 
feel perhaps, as a student, I might be a little out of my depth here.

Are we using Latin due to language differences, or would you rather amateurs 
not participate?

I guess what I was attempting to say was that I want the translation to 
capture the rhythm and beauty of the latin more than the literal meaning, 
and I do think that is more important for beginning students, when you want 
to excite them about the works.  I do note that as I am studying texts more 
in-depth, subtleties of meaning do take on a great deal more significance, 
and then I need a more literal translation.

Latin is obviously essential to the classical scholar, but that doesn't mean 
that those without latin should not be taught classics.

I'm not familiar with Croce. I've heard of Bloom, but not read anything of 
his.
Latin is only taught to rich private-school kids here in Australia, and the 
rest of us are lucky to emerge from the education system with the rudiments 
of English. The Western 'Dead White Male' cannon has become an anathema, but 
the post-modern educational theorists have, as usual, thrown the baby out 
with the bathwater. Now kids can see the word 'house' and read it as 'home' 
and be correct. Textual analysis hasn't got a hope in hell.

The ASCS conference is in 2-5 february. You can find more info here 
http://www.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/ascsxxv/

the draft program looks varied and interesting, though nothing specifically 
on Virgil that I can see.
Dr Kathryn Welch's 'Dignitas at the crossroads: merit and the Res Publica, 
44-39 BC' sounds interesting, plus there are several talks on Letters 
including Pliny the Younger's obituary letters.
Dr Jonathan Barlow is speaking on 'Affirmation and denial in Roman moral 
values' and there is a
panel presentation on 'The Construction of Roman Ethnic Identity'.

I got my copy of C Day Lewis' translation second-hand. Its 1952, Hogarth 
Press, London.

best regards
Helen South
Vincenzo  Crupi wrote:  Ergo extat poetica versio Vergilii Anglica Aeneide 
Latina a vergilio ipso scripta amabilior ? Aeneide pulchrior? Sinant 
Magistri Australiae moveri discipulas suas a pulchritudine. Benedetto Croce 
fortasse ab Harold Bloom in Australiam allatus istos peperit effectus?

  Quaeso, inquam, Helena dulcissima: quo potest exemplar cum originali 
contendere opere ? Num Gothicae Ecclesiae in America aedificatae antecedunt 
vera monumenta suis in locis extantia? Numquid tibi vera monumenta sordent?

 àt regìna gravì/iamdùdum sàucia cùra
vòlnus alìt venìs/ et caéco càrpitur ìgni
Quis melioribus sonis et sententiis et iuncturis verborum hanc Vergilii 
creaturam fingere potuit? Quis est iste novus Vergilianior Vergilio barbarus 
fictor vergilianorum verborum?
   Accipe ac tu sententiam Petronii, de quam meditari potes: cum Trimalchio 
affirmat ( Satyric. L): et forsitan quareis , quare solus Corinthea vera 
possideam: quia scilicet aerarius a quo emo, Corinthus vocatur. Quid est 
autem Corintheum nisi quis Corinthum habeat?.

  Pulchritudo classicorum non datur nis ut illud celeberrimum mathos   
quod pathei carpitur: primum studenda est accuratissime lingua Latina; 
ergo, cum facile legas textus pulchritudo tota tua erit. Aliter nescio de 
qua pulchritudine loqueris, certe non de pulchritudine Aeneidos!

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