Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Oh, wow — it hasn’t even been a full day since I sent this out...and already enough of you have chipped in enough to buy not just a single M1 system for Patrick, but also a second one for his partner in crime, Mark Kettenis. Thank you to all! This show of generosity and support and excitement is most welcome. (And, frankly, a bit overwhelming.) If anybody reading this still wishes to donate to the cause, despite the immediate needs being met, the money will be put to good use. There are other developers who will eventually need their own hardware, and there are always other sorts of expenses related to development. Feel free to chip in at Patrick’s original link: https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp ...or, of course, to the OpenBSD general fund (which can *ALWAYS* use donations): https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html Thanks again, everybody! b& > On Dec 2, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > Greetings, all! > > Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an M1 Mac > mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like to be > able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to throw some > pennies his way. > > The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a machine into > Patrick’s hands. > > Cheers, > > b& > > Patrick wrote: > >> Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on porting >> to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask him. >> I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with and >> not care about what is installed would really help. >> >> Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable >> person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for porting >> OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a >> dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. >> >> So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all >> that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. >> >> This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the >> binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience >> we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. >> >> Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration.
PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Greetings, all! Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an M1 Mac mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like to be able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to throw some pennies his way. The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a machine into Patrick’s hands. Cheers, b& Patrick wrote: > Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on porting > to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask him. > I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with and > not care about what is installed would really help. > > Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable > person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for porting > OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a > dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. > > So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all > that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. > > This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the > binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience > we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. > > Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration.
Re: Wireless help, please
On 2009 Jun 2, at 10:00 AM, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2009-06-02, K K wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Ben Goren >> wrote: >>> Anybody else have any suggestions? Nick? >> >> I have similar problems with a 'rum' USB stick in AP mode using WPA. >> >> See the man page for specific know issues with using this chipset in >> Host AP mode. >> >> Can anybody suggest a readily available USB2 Wireless-G adapter which >> works well as an AP? >> > > USB wireless adapters do not work well as APs. > > The only ones where we support this at all are ural and rum, and > though they can be useful in a sticky situation where it's all you > have available, they don't make good access points. With that in mind...are any of these ``wireless bridge'' devices worth considering? I have a spare PC Ethernet card for this laptop. This is one of Amazon's top hits for the sort of thing I'm thinking of. If anybody has any suggestions on the matter, I'd appreciate it http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WET610N-Wireless-N-Ethernet-Dual-Band/dp/B001QVQ7JU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243962805&sr=1-2 or: http://tinyurl.com/oe3nsg Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: Wireless help, please
Anybody else have any suggestions? Nick? Cheers, b& On 2009 May 30, at 5:21 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > On 2009 May 30, at 7:03 AM, Jason Dixon wrote: > >> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 06:48:59AM -0700, Ben Goren wrote: >>> I'm trying to set up my first wireless network, with less than >>> stellar >>> success. >> >> You need to narrow your spectrum of diagnosis. Start ruling out >> those >> things which are known to work. Rule out those things which are >> known >> to work and you'll be left with the thing(s) that don't. >> >> Examples: >> >> - OpenBSD wireless connectivity (as a client) >> - OpenBSD wired connectivity >> - Mac wired connectivity >> - Mac wireless connectivity (to a different WAP) >> - etc... > > I've done as much of that as I can -- or, at least, as much as I can > think of. > > The two computers have no trouble talking to each other over wired > ethernet. > > Indeed, for several seconds, they communicate just fine over wireless > -- my problem is that it only lasts for several seconds, after which > the entire wireless connection is dropped and the iMac is no longer > associated with any network. > > I don't have any other hardware to test with. > > I've thought of and tried a couple other things since this morning. > There's one of those infamous ``linksys'' networks somewhere in the > vicinity, but apparently not nearby. I was able to connect to it from > the iMac a while ago and do a bit of (very slow) surfing, and even > open an ssh session back to the laptop. I can't seem to re-connect to > it now, and I haven't been able to connect to it from the laptop. > There are a couple other networks in the area that aren't using any > form of wireless security, but they have official-sounding names like > ``ASUEMPLOYEE.'' I can connect to them from either computer -- and the > connection doesn't go away -- but no DHCP servers will talk to me. > > I've also tried setting up the laptop in both ibss and ibss-master > mode. With ibss-master, ifconfig always reports ``no network.'' > > However, if I set the iMac up as an ibss-master, I can connect to it > from the OpenBSD laptop, get a DHCP lease from it, and ping the iMac. > > So, it seems that everything works except for sustaining a link from > the iMac to the OpenBSD laptop as a hostap for more than several > seconds. > > Surely I must be missing something obvious? > > Cheers, > > b& > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7- > signature which had a name of smime.p7s] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: Wireless help, please
On 2009 May 31, at 2:53 PM, Fred Crowson wrote: > How is your iMac getting its IP address? When I manually set up the IP address (etc.) for the iMac, I get several seconds of connectivity before the link goes dead. That doesn't seem to be enough time to get a DHCP lease, though I do have dhcpd running on the OpenBSD laptop. The same laptop provides dhcp services to the iMac on the wired network just fine. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: SMTPD TLS Authentication?
On 2009 May 30, at 5:05 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 08:01:49PM -0400, Aaron W. Hsu wrote: >> Hello SMTPD Gurus, >> >> I have noticed some TLS based authentication stuff in the >> smtpd.conf(5) >> man page. I don't see more details about how it works, though. How >> far along is the TLS based stuff? I'd like to test smtpd with my >> email server on my local machine, which operates as a client to my >> sendmail based server remotely via TLS Authentication. Is this in >> their yet, or does the TLS work differently right now? >> >> Thanks! And, sorry for bugging you if this should be obvious. >> > > It should just work :-) > > If it doesn't let me know, I'm in an ssl mood right now Since you're offering TLS I got to work just by reading starttls(8) and making sure the keys were in the right place. That doesn't get you SMTP AUTH, though. It's been at least a few weeks since I tried, so I'm afraid I don't remember the details, but I tried installing the Cyrus SASL package without success. That may or may not have been due to my idiocy -- but I figured I'd ask: What's the preferred method of configuring Sendmail to require a password for relaying mail from popular MUAs like Apple Mail? A nudge in the proper direction -- man pages, packages, etc. -- to get me started in the right direction would be most welcome. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: Wireless help, please
On 2009 May 30, at 7:03 AM, Jason Dixon wrote: > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 06:48:59AM -0700, Ben Goren wrote: >> I'm trying to set up my first wireless network, with less than >> stellar >> success. > > You need to narrow your spectrum of diagnosis. Start ruling out those > things which are known to work. Rule out those things which are known > to work and you'll be left with the thing(s) that don't. > > Examples: > > - OpenBSD wireless connectivity (as a client) > - OpenBSD wired connectivity > - Mac wired connectivity > - Mac wireless connectivity (to a different WAP) > - etc... I've done as much of that as I can -- or, at least, as much as I can think of. The two computers have no trouble talking to each other over wired ethernet. Indeed, for several seconds, they communicate just fine over wireless -- my problem is that it only lasts for several seconds, after which the entire wireless connection is dropped and the iMac is no longer associated with any network. I don't have any other hardware to test with. I've thought of and tried a couple other things since this morning. There's one of those infamous ``linksys'' networks somewhere in the vicinity, but apparently not nearby. I was able to connect to it from the iMac a while ago and do a bit of (very slow) surfing, and even open an ssh session back to the laptop. I can't seem to re-connect to it now, and I haven't been able to connect to it from the laptop. There are a couple other networks in the area that aren't using any form of wireless security, but they have official-sounding names like ``ASUEMPLOYEE.'' I can connect to them from either computer -- and the connection doesn't go away -- but no DHCP servers will talk to me. I've also tried setting up the laptop in both ibss and ibss-master mode. With ibss-master, ifconfig always reports ``no network.'' However, if I set the iMac up as an ibss-master, I can connect to it from the OpenBSD laptop, get a DHCP lease from it, and ping the iMac. So, it seems that everything works except for sustaining a link from the iMac to the OpenBSD laptop as a hostap for more than several seconds. Surely I must be missing something obvious? Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Wireless help, please
I'm trying to set up my first wireless network, with less than stellar success. dmesg here: http://trumpetpower.com/pub/dmesg.boot $ ifconfig rum0 rum0: flags=8943 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:0e:3b:0e:88:81 priority: 0 groups: wlan media: IEEE802.11 autoselect hostap status: active ieee80211: nwid trumpetpower chan 1 bssid 00:0e:3b:0e:88:81 100dBm inet 65.39.81.125 netmask 0xfff0 broadcast 65.39.81.127 inet6 fe80::20e:3bff:fe0e:8881%rum0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x5 It's an old Dell Precision laptop with a Hawking HWUG1 running 4.5- STABLE I'm trying to connect to it from a not-too-old iMac. The two computers are less than six feet apart. I can actually connect and (e.g.) ftp to get a file over the network...but only for a few seconds before the link goes dead. Once it lasted for almost half a minute. And that's only if I use a static IP on the iMac; dhcp is never able to get a lease. I've tried everything I can think of -- different channels, 802.11b and 802.11g, different USB ports (including the built-in USB 1.1 port on the back of the laptop), WPA on and off, moving the antenna and computer around, with and without an IP assigned to the interface (using a bridge), DHCP running and not, and probably more. All scenarios give the same symptoms: I can make the connection, but it goes away after a few seconds. I've tried looking in /var/log for clues, but I couldn't find anything. No console messages show up. This is what shows up in the console for the iMac when I attempt to connect: 2009-05-30 6:41:09 AM kernel en1: Supported channels 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 149 153 157 161 165 40 48 56 64 153 161 36 44 52 60 149 157 2009-05-30 6:41:28 AM kernel Auth result for: 00:0e:3b:0e:88:81 MAC AUTH succeeded 2009-05-30 6:41:28 AM kernel AirPort: Link Up on en1 2009-05-30 6:41:28 AM kernel AirPort: Link Up on en1 2009-05-30 6:41:30 AM mDNSResponder[16] Note: Frequent transitions for interface en1 (65.39.81.120); network traffic reduction measures in effect 2009-05-30 6:41:30 AM mDNSResponder[16] Note: Frequent transitions for interface en1 (65.39.81.120); network traffic reduction measures in effect 2009-05-30 6:41:31 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:31 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:32 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:32 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:32 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:33 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:33 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:33 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM airportd[50552] Error: Apple80211Associate() failed -6 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM kernel AirPort: Link Down on en1 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM SystemUIServer[183] Error: airportd MIG failed = -6 ((null)) (port = 51351) 2009-05-30 6:41:34 AM airportd[50552] Error: process_command_dict() failed 2009-05-30 6:41:35 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:35 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:35 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:36 AM kernel Auth result for: 00:0e:3b:0e:88:81 MAC AUTH succeeded 2009-05-30 6:41:36 AM kernel AirPort: Link Up on en1 2009-05-30 6:41:36 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:36 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:36 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() EBUSY, try again in a sec 2009-05-30 6:41:37 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:37 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: Apple80211Scan() error 16 2009-05-30 6:41:37 AM System Preferences[16088] Error: __performScan() failed (16) 2009-05-30 6:41:42 AM airportd[50552] Error: Apple80211Associate() failed -6 2009-05-30 6:41:42 AM kernel AirPort: Link Down on en1 2009-05-30 6:41:42 AM SystemUIServer[183] Error: airportd MIG failed = -6 ((null)) (port = 51351) 2009-05-30 6:41:42 AM airportd[50552] Error: process_command_dict() failed 2009-05-30 6:41:42 AM airportd[50552] Error: process_command_dict() failed 2009-05-30 6:41:47 AM mDNSResponder[16] Note: Frequent transitions for interface en1 (65.39.81.120); network traffic reduction m
umask for make build (was Re: make build fails on -STABLE)
I can confirm: make build fails if the umask is set to 077, succeeds if set to 022. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: make build fails on -STABLE
On 2009 May 18, at 4:27 PM, Philip Guenther wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Ben Goren > wrote: > ... >> A new kernel built, installed, and booted just fine. However, every >> time I try to do a make build, it bombs out in the exact same spot. >> I've re-run cvs without it finding any new / modified / deleted / >> etc. >> files. > > What are the permissions on the /usr/include/kerberosV/ directory at > the end of the build? > > Early on, you can see that it resets them from 700 to 755, but later > error messages make it look like something in the build chmoded the > directory back to 700. Hmm, perhaps the permissions get copied from > the source tree along the way. What are the permissions on your > source tree? Are any of the include directories there mode 700? If > so, try changing them to 755 and give the build another shot. Actually I think I might have it figured out. If so, your idea was certainly very close. I have my umask set to 077 in my .profile. On a lark, before your note arrived, I set it to 022 and kicked off another make build. It seems to have made it past the point where it was bombing out. I'll send another note to the list to confirm (or deny) that that was the problem. I'll leave it to The Powers That Be (TM) to decide if this is something worth checking for or documenting. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
make build fails on -STABLE
I just installed 4.5 yesterday from install45.iso on an old Dell Precision laptop. dmesg here: http://trumpetpower.com/pub/dmesg.boot I unpacked source from the tarballs and did ``cvs -q up -rOPENBSD_4_5 - PAd'' A new kernel built, installed, and booted just fine. However, every time I try to do a make build, it bombs out in the exact same spot. I've re-run cvs without it finding any new / modified / deleted / etc. files. Typescript here: http://trumpetpower.com/pub/build_fail.txt Suggestions would be most appreciated. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On 2007 Oct 31, at 8:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower > level development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to > judge) to encourage people to enter the development cycle. First, you're assuming that there exists amongst the OpenBSD developers a desire ``to encourage people to enter the development cycle.'' I kinda doubt that that's the case. More developers often isn't a good thing; see ``The Mythical Man-Month'' for a popular treament of the problem. But, if you're serious, one good way would be to follow the changes made to the code -- after all, that's the whole point of a public CVS repository. When you find something that you can point to and say, ``I know why so-and-so did that,'' then you can go looking for other things that would benefit from the same treatment. And if you don't understand why the changes are being made, you need to improve your coding skills to the point that you do. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: About Xen: maybe a reiterative question but ..
On 2007 Oct 23, at 5:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Virtualization seems to have a lot of security benefits. ``Seems'' is the key word, here. On hardware like an IBM mainframe that can acutally support what's necessary for secure virtual machines, sure. On x86? Well, it'll keep your kid sister out Virtualization is wonderful for simultaneously running different operating systems on the same (beefy) computer, especially for development or testing purposes. If you occassionally need to run something on an operating system other than your preferred one, it's great -- saves you the extra hardware or the reboot, lets you do snapshots, etc. For Windows, it's also wonderful. You basically have to be nuts to have a single Windows server* doing more than one thing, but virtualization lets you do exactly that with relative impunity. It's like splinting a broken leg and giving a huge shot of painkillers to the victim -- you'd never know the leg was broken. But that's about it. I suppose running Windows virtual machines on a real OpenBSD machine might ``have a lot of security benefits'' in some perverted sense of the words, but it's not like the VM is magically going to protect the virtual machines or anything. And if the Windows virtual machines can still talk to the outside world or to each other (via simulated network interfaces, for example), even those ``security benefits'' won't mean much. Cheers, b& * Yes, the full stop here is appropriate. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: cp(1) bug ?
On 2007 Oct 18, at 4:40 PM, Edd Barrett wrote: > On 18/10/2007, Richard Toohey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> $ mkdir foo >>> $ cp -R foo foo > > Ill try this on a solaris box and a linix box tomorrow at work :P Mac OS X 10.4 behaves exactly the same way as OpenBSD does. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org RSA host key changed?
As of the past week or so, my nightly cron job to update /usr/src has been bombing out, complaining that the ``RSA host key for anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org has changed.'' Has it really, or is someone really doing something nasty? Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: some questions about OpenBSDs future plans
On 2005 May 11, at 9:32 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > On Mon, 2005-05-09 at 18:13 +0200, Henning Brauer wrote: >> exim: dunno license currently, > > Debian uses exim as the MTA by default, so it's almost certainly free > enough to stick in gnu/. Things are being removed from there. Nothing new will ever be added. >> but awkward 80s design, poor implementation, just plain sucks > > At the risk of starting a flamewar, people say things equally as bad > about sendmail. So? Sendmail also has the benefit of being thoroughly audited by the OpenBSD team. Besides, swapping MTAs would be almost as much work as writing a new one. Why go to all that trouble for bad code with a bad license? In short: no way in hell; not in a million years; dream on. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: some questions about OpenBSDs future plans
On 2005 May 9, at 6:09 PM, Henning Brauer wrote: >>> Even if the plan9 >>> compiler looks nice. >> >> Forgive me if I'm out of the loop, but has the license changed since >> two years ago? > > yes, that's the entire point. I don't suppose anybody could elaborate? I'm not having any luck finding the new license. Specifically, the seemingly-official download page here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/download.html still links to the onerous license: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/license.html and has this before you can download: > Mandatory: > [ ] I acknowledge that > * the software is not intended for use by a government end-user except > those in the United States, Canada, the European Union, Australia, > Norway, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Japan, Switzerland, and > New Zealand. (government end-users are defined in part 772). > * I understand that the cryptographic software is subject to export > controls under the Export Administration Regulations. > * I understand that I cannot export the software without a license or > other authorization. So...where does one go to get an unencumbered Plan9 compiler? Either Google isn't much help (though it did uncover this rather interesting thread from a couple years ago: http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2003-June/025148.html) or my Googling skills aren't up to the task. And...since this has become the topic of such rampant rumor and speculation, would anybody in the know care to enlighten us masses as to when we might be able to expect to start drooling over a GCC-free OpenBSD? Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: some questions about OpenBSDs future plans
On 2005 May 9, at 2:23 PM, Miod Vallat wrote: > Even if the plan9 > compiler looks nice. Forgive me if I'm out of the loop, but has the license changed since two years ago? http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/misc/0306/msg01274.html (That's just the start of the thread. Read at least the next couple responses; short version, it ain't free.) Assuming that this license: http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/license.html is what applies to the compiler, I'd have to answer my own question with, ``Not really.'' Is there *any* compiler other than TenDRA with a usable license? We've already heard about TenDRA's technical shortcomings in this thread. Is the only other option OpenCC? As much as I'd love to see such a thing...well, I know Theo's nuts enough to write his own compiler, but still Not that I expect to see a GCC-free OpenBSD for a *long* time, of course. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: some questions about OpenBSDs future plans
All these questions have been thoroughly discussed on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please search the archives for detailed information. I'll add quick notes as I'm waiting for something to finish right now and have a quick moment with nothing better to do. It's worth noting that I'm not a developer, so I'm certainly not speaking _ex_cathedra._ On 2005 May 9, at 8:16 AM, Sascha Retzki wrote: > 1.) Do you plan to distribute several MTAs, like NetBSD currently > does? Or > do you already (first check said no, but maybe I missed something)? OpenBSD ships with Sendmail. Other MTAs are available as ports. Unless Sendmail is replaced by something written from scratch (and I personally have a completely uninformed hunch that this will happen, hopefully sooner rather than later), it's the only MTA that OpenBSD will ship with. > 2.) Do you plan to distribute PAM in base? No. OpenBSD uses (surprise!) BSD authentication, which solves the same basic set of problems. See bsd_auth(3) for details. > 3.) Did anybody look close enough on TenDRA yet? I'd like to know how > much > GNUism is in OpenBSDs base, building mechanism, so basicly it adds up > to: > How long do we/you have to wait till TenDRA can be used? Replacing the toolchain is a mammoth undertaking. Even if TenDRA is up to the task, it's not something to be undertaken lightly. I expect it to happen eventually, but not for a long, long time. Even then, it might not necessarily be TenDRA that replaces GCC/EGCS, but something else. > 3.2.) Even if the compiler/debugger/linker stuff runs on BSDLed code > from > the TenDRA people, do you roughly know how much software in base is > GPL/GNU, > and how much of that must be there? There's not much left; see /usr/src/gnu. Of course, even though the list it short, it still includes things like GCC and Perl, so ``not much'' is quite a relative term. > 4.) I saw lkm-stuff in your tree, do you want the same situation as > linux has, > like that "too much" is modulized, or do you want that API for > situations > where kernel mods are the only bearable solution? It's my impression that adding stuff to the kernel while it's running is anathema. Heck, even just compiling custom kernels is rather frowned upon. It's really a solution to a problem that rarely, if ever, exists in the real world. It's also a solution that causes far more problems than it ever solves. > 5.) What do you think about devfs? Will it be there in the near or far > future? I doubt it. There's little or no need; the traditional way works fine. Virtual filesystems of any kind are easy to slap together and very hard to get right. > 6.) Do you guys like X11R6? Would you remove it if $somebody comes up > with > some basic window-manager-alike basing on something simple like > svgalibs? > Or, rather, would you distribute that in base, too? Unix uses X for its windowing environment. If and when this ever changes, I'm sure The Powers That Be will consider the alternatives. Until then, this is like asking if people like using spoons for their soup, and if they'd consider using some spoon-like tool instead if it were ever invented, worked better than a spoon, and everybody else started using it. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Rant: how stupid does java look
On 2005 May 6, at 5:55 PM, Henry Lenzi wrote: > But for the BSDs, maybe Mono would be a > fresh, unhindered start. Erm...for Linux, maybe. Not for us. http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing All we could use are the class libraries. Everything else is GPL. And, truthfully, I just don't see the point behind it, either. It's not like C# or Java is *that* much better than C or C++ or Perl or Lisp or any of a dozen other languages that *aren't* encumbered. I mean, sure, you could probably pick something to which Java is well suited, and I certainly don't want to start a language flame war. But, if you're using OpenBSD at least partly for ideological reasons, neither Java nor C# has anything that beats out some other language's openness. Cheers, b& P.S. It'll be a cold day in Hell before anything in OpenBSD gets compiled with Mono. I suppose there's a very off chance that Java code could make it in if it compiles cleanly with gcj...but I'd be really, really surprised. You'd have to convince Theo that Java is a necessary language for whatever it is that you're doing, and I just simply don't see that happening anytime soon. b& P.P.S. Ports is, of course, another story. No reason why Java and Mono shouldn't have their place there--particular licenses, code quality, etc., permitting. b& P.P.P.S. Migrating or porting custom Java or .Net stuff is, naturally, yet another matter. b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: DocBook and OBSD man pages
On 2005 May 6, at 8:09 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Everyone keeps saying docbook, xml, blah, blah, and then they produce > manual pages that are worse than ours. > > Perhaps it is time to consider how that happens. Rhetorical question, I know, but for Mr. Gustavo's benefit Worry about the content. The format is the least of your concerns. When you have a problem that the standard format doesn't address, *then* it's time to start worrying about the format. Not before. I've done a fair share of graphic design over the years. In addition to the WYSIWYG tools like PageMaker and Xpress, I've also done stuff in ?roff, LaTeX, HTML, Word *shudder* Anyway, I assure you, the easy part is the layout and presentation. Converting from one format to another isn't that big a deal, either. For one-off stuff, some global search-and-destroy takes care of most of it. For mass conversions, if it's structured, you just have to write some wrapper code around your search-and-destroy patterns. The hard part is the actual content. A significant part of this is the organization and structure of your words. Get all that taken care of, and the content almost formats itself. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: 3.7CDs arrived today...
On 2005 May 6, at 8:10 AM, Justin Reigle wrote: > However, the jewel case is screwed up (2 of three mounts are > disintigrated), > just like every single time I've ever ordered (since 2.7). I wonder if > it's possible > to use a higher quality triple jewel case? Oh well... And, just like with every other release, some people complain of smashed jewel cases and want Theo to start sending out better ones. Of course, this misses the fact that this has been a problem with *all* jewel cases since time immemorial. I've got a stack of a dozen music CDs in jewel cases on my desk right now. Some of them are mine; some mine that I've lent out; some that I'm borrowing. At least a third have broken jewel cases. Maybe more. If you look in your music collection, you'll almost certainly discover the same thing. But do you complain to the record companies about their jewel cases? If you *really* care about the state of your jewel case when it arrives, there *is* an official option to ship the CDs wrapped in lots of soft cloth padding. It costs an extra $20, but the bonus is that the cloth comes pre-printed with OpenBSD artwork and is in a shape suitable for covering your torso. Cheers, b& P.S. *PLEASE* let's not beat this horse any more! b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Postfix (IBM) license question
On 2005 May 4, at 8:19 AM, Justin Reigle wrote: > Anyone a lawyer or have a lawyer friend who might help decipher this > one? No. Or maybe even yes. Point is, it's pointless. This has been hashed and re-hashed. Over and over. Time and again. The horse is dead. OpenBSD will not distribute software that uses the IBM license. Period. End of discussion. If *you* want to distribute such software, that's your business. You probably even want to consult a lawyer before you do. (Incidentally, that's enough reason right there why OpenBSD won't touch the stuff. Valid or not, it's a decision that's been made, a line that's been drawn: no redistribution of software encumbered by licenses that are either excessively restrictive or that require a lawyer for interpretation.) But that's *your* problem. Not ours. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: OPEN SOURCE MASTERPLANS
On 2005 May 3, at 12:23 PM, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > I came here asking for advice, not having to prove myself by stating > my knowledge and beliefs. Sorry, wrong. At best, you came here asking us to do your homework for you. But...if you really had the ears of world leaders, you'd have more than enough resources to do your own research. You'd also be professional enough to at least take the time to discover that inquiries and behavior like you've foisted upon us here at misc@ are unwelcome. *Maybe* your question would have been appropriate for advocacy@, but certainly not [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cross-posting to such a diverse mix of groups as you did--including OpenBSD and Debian, for example--is just plain rude. Since your primary claim is so blatantly false, the next most obvious conclusion is that you're a troll. I'm sorry, but, at this point, if you want to demonstrate otherwise, you'll have to do all the research on your own. Then, you can come back, present us with all these wonderful final solutions, and ask us to critique them. > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Senior Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop This is a flash-only Web site that lives on a generic hosting provider. It advertises for a graphic design agency. Nothing there gives me any indication that you're any kind of well-known, respected expert on Free software. You may well use it and like it, but that's irrelevant. Further, Google knows nothing about you: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Fafa+Hafiz+Krantz%22 > Furious @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf This is a highly inflammatory rant against the elected leader of a nation written by his harshest political opponent. Whether the charges are merited or not, it shows an incredible lack of diplomacy on your part. Many world leaders will reject you out of hand for such tactlessness. > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm You send mail from @mail.com but receive it @london.com. It comes by way of outblaze.com. None of that gives me the slightest confidence in your claims of legitimacy. Now, will you kindly go away? There's no need to even reply to this note--just leave. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Postfix (IBM) license question
On 2005 May 3, at 1:06 PM, Rod Dorman wrote:
> The postfix package has in the PERMIT_*_CDROM description
> "cannot be sold, see section 4 of license"
>
> Is that the "4. COMMERCIAL DISTRIBUTION" in "IBM Public License"
> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ibmpl.php ?
>
> That section has a lot of crap about indemnification but I can't
> figure
> out anyplace where it says you can't sell it.
The terse message in the Makefile necessarily oversimplifies.
What the license actually says is:
> Therefore, if a Contributor includes the Program in
> a commercial product offering, such Contributor ("Commercial
> Contributor")
> hereby agrees to defend and indemnify every other Contributor
> ("Indemnified Contributor") against any losses, damages and costs
> (collectively "Losses") arising from claims, lawsuits and other legal
> actions brought by a third party against the Indemnified Contributor to
> the extent caused by the acts or omissions of such Commercial
> Contributor
> in connection with its distribution of the Program in a commercial
> product offering.
While you *can* sell Postfix, you can only do so if you accept burdens
that pretty much everybody with an @openbsd.org address (and probably
most everybody else) would consider exceedingly onerous.
I might, for example, give you my '68 VW Camper. (Actually, I
wouldn't--but bear with me.) But, at the same time, I might first get
you to sign a contract that says that you'll post a multimillion dollar
bond before you sell it, protecting me in the event that somebody runs
me over while driving my old car. *You* can drive it all you want, and
you don't have to put up the bond. But, if you sell it, you do.
You'd probably come to the conclusion that the oversimplification,
``cannot be sold,'' isn't far off the mark.
Cheers,
b&
P.S. Yes, it's Wietse's decision to license his software this way. It's
OpenBSD's decision to respect his license and therefore not distribute
it in a way that might infringe upon that license. Even if *you* don't
think it would, the OpenBSD folk are afraid it might and would rather
play it safe. b&
P.P.S. *PLEASE* don't let's let this devolve into a license flamefest!
b&
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Re: OpenBSD stickers would be awesome
On 2005 May 3, at 10:17 AM, Ben Goren wrote: > P.S. Don't expect any such thing from the OpenBSD store any time soon. Eh...I should hasten to add: I misread your original note. I thought you liked the stickers that came with the CD set but wanted a 1 inch square one with the raised plastic covering. I now see that you made no mention of the stickers that come with the CDs. Start with those, and follow the link I sent if none of them suit your taste. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: OpenBSD stickers would be awesome
On 2005 May 3, at 9:39 AM, Jean-Daniel Beaubien wrote: > HOW COME I DON'T HAVE A WIREFRAME PUFFY STICKER ON MY CASES? Because you've never put one there? Just a wild guess. You might be interested in this link: http://www.google.com/search?q=custom+computer+case+logo+sticker+badge Cheers, b& P.S. Don't expect any such thing from the OpenBSD store any time soon. b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: OPEN SOURCE MASTERPLANS
On 2005 May 3, at 9:05 AM, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > Masterplans don't kill people! > Masterplans help them survive! Please permit me to invoke Godwin's law by citing that greatest of all master plans, Hitler's Final Solution. Now please go away. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Attempting to lock password file ...............
On 2005 May 2, at 5:06 PM, Charles Dillinger wrote: > I have just setup my first OpenBSD server and the password file > apparently is locked. RTFM: passwd(1) http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/search?q=OpenBSD+password+file+locked http://www.openbsd.org/report.html http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/etc/root/root.mail Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Automated installation (Jumpstart)
On 2005 May 2, at 10:15 AM, Chris Kuethe wrote: > It works well enough (a 2.5 minute install time) but is > definately not a supported configuration. And it's dangerous. What good does a 150-second install time do you if you'll waste far more than that setting everything up in the first place and figuring out how you managed to b0rk it all afterwards? If it works for you, great. But, please, we have too many problems with people 'round here shooting themselves in the foot to start inventing new weapons for them to use. Especially when there *is* a supported, safe, and effective solution. I repeat: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#site Now, if there's some particulars of this person's problem that a siteXX.tgz plus install/upgrade.site won't solve, that's another matter for discussion. But nothing has been said so far to make me think that the proper way of doing things is in any way insufficient for him. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Automated installation (Jumpstart)
On 2005 May 2, at 9:48 AM, B. Gas wrote: > Hi, > > I run snapshots (3.7)on an intel machine. > I want to setup some sort of remote installation > provider like Jumpstart or RIS so that I can > perform installation/recovery of clients very quick. > > > Can someone please guide me whereto look for such information?? http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#site Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Question?
On 2005 May 1, at 4:23 PM, Shawn Brand wrote: > I have a fulll version Window XP Professional and it is bootable but > when I > go into the BIOS it only gives the option to check the flooping then > the hard > drive, then the CD Rom, but I need it to check the CD Rom first can > you tell > me how to change boot sequence. Can you help? This has nothing whatsoever to do with OpenBSD. Ask whomever made the computer, sold it to you, etc. Besides which, we're not mind readers. Considering that you didn't even give us enough information to know that your computer actually has a BIOS, there's no way anybody could even think to answer your question. But the people who made it can. Not us. Them. Cheers, b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: 3.7 CDs
On 2005 May 1, at 3:35 AM, Todd Boyer wrote: > http://www.autumntech.com/bsdstuff/puffy-desktop.jpg Huh? A well-used Windows machine with Puffy and the motto? Whatever b& [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of PGP.sig]
Re: Hackathon 2005
On 2005 Apr 30, at 5:22 PM, Jeff Bachtel wrote: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 02:30:28PM -0700, Ben Goren wrote: >> As much as I'm sure Theo would love to get rid of gcc and >> friends...damn, that's a big undertaking. I don't think it's the sort >> of thing that would happen at a hackathon. If I had to guess, it'd be >> made the main point of some future release, with little other >> development. You know, the sort of thing that takes up lots of long >> winter nights. It's not likely to be fun, and I get the impression >> that >> hackathons are supposed to be fun. > > *blink* tech@ bitching aside, the GNU gcc project puts a HUGE amount > of effort into improving their compiler. Forking it would have every > chance of leading to stagnation in the OpenBSD project as processors > and optimizations evolve. There are lots of things I don't know about the inner workings of OpenBSD. Of this, though I *am* sure: OpenBSD will never ``fork'' gcc. Oh, sure, there will probably always be OpenBSD-specific patches against it, or they may lag behind the current version, or what-not. But a fork? I just can't imagine it. Well, *maybe* if they moved gcc to this new version of the GPL everybody is talking about, but I can't really imagine that happening, either. In this distant, dim future I'm envisioning as gcc-less, I would expect Theo to either adopt TenDRA or roll his own compiler from scratch. I have no clue if TenDRA is anywhere close to being up to the task, and writing one's own is quite obviously about as mammoth a project as one could undertake. Notice how I started this paragraph with ``distant, dim future''? All in all, this topic is about as meaningful as us discussing petroleum replacements. Everybody knows that it'll have to happen some day, and perhaps even sooner than anybody really wants--though most would also be overjoyed to wave a magic wand and be done with it. There's a lot of pain between here and there and, while of utmost importance, it's also (currently) about as far from urgent as one can get. (Some day it will be very urgent, unless we discover that magic wand first.) >> This is pure WAG speculation, but I'd guess that the next OpenD >> would be OpenSMTPD [. . . .] > > Replacing Sendmail outright seems iffy at best. Search archives for > when this has been mentioned in the past, and you will get "no way in > hell" replies from Theo. Auditing and partitioning it, maybe. Again, you twist my words, and Theo's too, this time. I did *not* say that I expected a Sendmail replacement any time soon--quite the opposite. Let me put a definite limit on this: I'd bet no more than (a modest) lunch, and only on the condition that I already happened to be in the same city when the bet came due, that, the next time we see an OpenWHATEVER, it's an OpenSMTPD. We may not ever see another OpenWHATEVER, though that bunch just has too much fun hacking for me to imagine that. There may well be something like OpenNTPD that somebody like Henning is quietly working on--and, in fact, this is more likely to be the case than any particular specific thing. Yes, Theo has been quite vociferous about Sendmail replacements. You'll note, however, that in every one of those threads, Theo is responding to people demanding that he replace Sendmail with some specific other MTA. There is no way in hell that Qmail, for example, will ever go in OpenBSD. You'll also note that Theo has never said one word about writing his own MTA. Let me stress that: Theo has been ABSOLUTELY SILENT. He has said NOT ONE WORD. I would be damned surprised if he ever did--unless, of course, it was to say, ``Hey guys, foo@ has done some great work in writing OpenSMTPD for us. Grab a snapshot and help test it for us.'' All the speculation here is MINE. I'm doing a bit of Kremlinology, is all. It doesn't take a genius to notice all of Sendmail's warts. Of the items remaining in /usr/src/gnu, it's got the most license problems. In the past, warty code with undesirable licenses has been a prime target for replacement. All I'm really saying is that Sendmail is the wartiest piece of code left with a problematic license. And why should *you* care whether or not any of this ``scales.'' Managing the project is Theo's worry, not yours, and he's shown himself to be damned capable of doing so. Besides, which do you think is easier: maintaining your own code that you know better than anybody else, or maintaining somebody else's code that you have to work to figure out? And I know from personal experience that, when you get the code right in the first place, you don't have to do anywhere near as much to maintain it. Cheers, b&
