Re: [music-dsp] the time it takes to design a reverberator and related
The amount of developing time for a reverb algorithm is very much depended on the goals and target for that particular algorithm. If you want to make a high-end classic and start from scratch then it takes way more time than contract work. VSS series from TC Electronic took 8 engineers almost 10 years to finish. Bricasti (Casey) use at least 4-5+ years for a single algorithm. Lexicon (David Griesinger) worked 3 years on the HD algorithm. And so on. The above is obviously flagship products and not contract work. And none of them use FDN in the traditional sense. -Original Message- From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of gm Sent: 21. maj 2020 23:04 To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: [music-dsp] the time it takes to design a reverberator and related I need some possibly quotable real world opinions and experiences on how long stuff can take to design or develop, especially takeing Hofstadter's Law into account For instance reverberators, hard to estimate, and I dont recall all the times I spent exactly I tried so many things on different occasions so long ago, improved things, disimproved them but my estimate is that it takes many months experience (at least) and experimenting to come to good and really good results. Especially if you start with FDNs first and waste a long time on them... If you have experience and start from scratch it takes days or weeks to refine your design. You may however have at some point developed prototypes that you can reuse and modify and do not change too much any more. Two years ago or so I posted a kind of non-paper here on "magic numbers in reverb design" where I claimed having found a "perfect" ratio for allpass delay stage lengths. I could never decide if its kind of nonsense or not since the method gives quite good results, but I think I used other numbers afterwards myself IIRC. I am not even sure at the moment... Does anybody recall that paper and did anybody ever try and remember the results? Did it speed developement up for you? Did it make any sense to you at all (its written in a weird way)? Would you call a good reverb algorithm a piece of art? Since the process can take so eratically long, and since you can go back and forth many times, what do you think a reasonable time estimate would be? How much time would you charge for that reverb, reasonably? How and when do you decide it's finished and that you don't change parameters any more? How many times and for how long did you try to make "the most efficient reverberator you can get away with"? Did you ever succeed in that quest? Do you think there is something like a "most reasonable" reverb design? ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach
That’s great! I haven’t been so fortunately in my work until now – so I have to go the long way with extensive tests each time. I have analyzed some reverbs, but didn’t found any overall rule regarding either delay ratios or feedback ratios – maybe I didn’t look closed enough. From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of gm Sent: 28. september 2017 18:41 To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach But this ratio scheme actually is the result of thousands of listening tests, some years of reverb building attempts and lots of sneaking into the reverbs of others... I found the exactly same ratios +- some cents are used in a nice reverb from a well known company that was built for efficiency, whos designer I know and who tweaks them by ear only AFAIK. Coincidence? I think not. ;) You still have to invest time to detune the ratios optimally and lots of time to design your reverbs, these are just starting points. ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach
To get a realistic (or a musical for matter) sounding reverb it will include thousands of listening tests with various test signals - I haven't seen any 'automated' or any particular strategy for tuning reverbs in the wild other than extensive listening tests. The AP delay lines gets longer for each segment when connected in series, but I don't believe I have seen an overall strategy for the ratio and it's not particular important to use primes either. It's obvious that the output taps needs a ping pong behavior. -Original Message- From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu [mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of gm Sent: 28. september 2017 16:47 To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Reverb, magic numbers and random generators #2 the Go approach And here's how I've been doing it before the RNG approach, I present you: The Go strategy of impulse spacing If the delay loop period is 1, in a first step this places the impulses so that consecutive impulses fall exactly in between already delayed impulses within the first periods, by setting the ratio "a" according to Na mod = a/2 and Na mod 1 = 1 - a/2 for N = 2,3,4... which gives the series a = 2/(2n-1) and 2 = 4/(2n+1) : 2/3, 2/5, 2/7, 2/9... and 4/5, 4/7, 4/9, 4/11... Note that reciprocals work in a similar way. The first delay in this strategy can also be set to a = 1/2 which gives ratios of 0.5, 0.7 and 0.8, or pitch differences of -12, -7.02 and -3.86 semitones. We see the octave is neatly divided by this strategy. With rational ratios like this, the pattern would repeat quickly and impulses would fall exactly on delayed impulses after a few iterations. Therefore we now carefully detune the ratios so that consecutive repetition cycles do not coincide. There are also strategies for detuning and to avoid beating and flanging as well as certain magic numbers which fulfill this and additional criteria. Once a satisfying couple or triplet has been found the ratios can be reused on additional early diffusion stages, scaled by a matching strategy like Schröders 1/3^n scaling. Comments? ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
[music-dsp] Software Developer position at Relab Development
Dear list, Apologies for cross-postings Relab Development is looking for a C++ developer with JUCE or similar frameworks experience to join an exciting company and we will consider full time and freelance applications. Experience building audio plugins with various frameworks desired and some DSP knowledge is preferable. You will be joining a passionate team of audio software developers with the intention of developing the next generation of audio plugins with the absolutely highest quality. Location: - Denmark or remote Salary: - Competitive and dependent upon experience You: You will participate in the evolution, development and support of our platform, creating new high quality plugins and if you’re looking for challenging and exciting engineering work, we would like to hear from you. Skills & Experience: - Experience developing audio software in a professional environment. - Strong C/C++ - Familiarity with JUCE framework or equivalent and various audio plugin formats - Strong analytical skills - API and SDK design - Experience on MacOS and Windows - Portfolio showing previous audio software applications built is always a bonus. Email: j...@relab.dk if you are interested. Kind regards Martin Lind ___ dupswapdrop: music-dsp mailing list music-dsp@music.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
