Re: IERS ponders reverse leapsecond...

[Marshall Eubanks]

Just to set the standard.

There is no "during" a negative leap second.

A positive leap second proceeds as
23:59:59
23:59:60 <--- second added here
00:00:00

A negative leap second proceeds as
23:59:58
00:00:00 <--- whoops! second 59 is gone!!!

Those systems that "smear" leap seconds over a 24 hour period will
presumably just smear in the reverse direction.

It would not surprise me at all if the liquid outer core keeps on its
slowdown and a negative leap second would need to be scheduled sooner
or later.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 11:35 AM Matthew Huff  wrote:
>
> True,
>
> But it's hard enough to get developers to understand the need to code for 61 
> seconds in a minute, and now they would need to code for 59 seconds as well.
>
> If time systems simply skewed the time so that 60 seconds actually just took 
> 61 seconds or 59 seconds, there would be other issues, but coders wouldn't be 
> involved.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Stephane 
> Bortzmeyer
> Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 11:19 AM
> To: Jay Ashworth 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: IERS ponders reverse leapsecond...
>
> On Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 11:09:25AM -0400,  Jay Ashworth  
> wrote  a message of 32 lines which said:
>
> > General press loses its *mind*:
>
> Indeed, they seem not to know what they write about. "atomic time – the 
> universal way time is measured on Earth – may have to change" They don't even 
> know the difference between TAI and UTC.
>

Re: 60 ms cross-continent

[Marshall Eubanks]

This was also pitched as one of the killer-apps for the SpaceX
Starlink satellite array, particularly for cross-Atlantic and
cross-Pacific trading.

https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/marketintegrity/2019/06/25/fspacex-is-opening-up-the-next-frontier-for-hft/

"Several commentators quickly caught onto the fact that an extremely
expensive network whose main selling point is long-distance,
low-latency coverage has a unique chance to fund its growth by
addressing the needs of a wealthy market that has a high willingness
to pay — high-frequency traders."

Regards
Marshall

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 2:01 PM Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>
> On 2020-06-20, at 19:07, Joel Jaeggli  wrote:
> >
> > This is c in a vacuum. Light transmission through a medium is slower.
>
> Ob-movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hummingbird_Project
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>

GPS may be jammed for several hours per day in the SE US Jan 16-24

[Marshall Eubanks]

I thought this might be relevant to many:

GPS reception may be unavailable or unreliable over a large portion of
the southeastern states and the Caribbean during offshore military
exercises scheduled between January 16 and 24.

The FAA has posted a flight advisory for the exercises that will
require jamming of GPS signals for periods of several hours each day
of the event. Navigation guidance, ADS-B, and other services
associated with GPS could be affected for up to 400 nautical miles at
Flight Level 400, down to a radius of 180 nm at 50 feet above the
ground.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/january/14/gps-jamming-expected-in-southeast-during-military-exercise?fbclid=IwAR3VMlOdPUFTHuoujPShqt3qhEIe3mAhSS-pU5M56CQ14zNX8qSBqWa5WcI

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

Re: EXERCISE: 2019 IAA Planetary Defence Conference - Day 5 Scenario

[Marshall Eubanks]

Yes, they kept moving the impact site around all week (both Denver and
West Africa were mentioned at times). Some people wiser than I guessed
Central Park early on, but I thought that was too obvious. Good thing
I didn't make a bet on it.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 2:21 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:
>
>
> EXERCISE Only
>
> The scenario was chosen to stress the partcipants, not an actual asteroid
> impact. It was a fictional scenario. This was only an exercise.
>
> 60 meter asteroid impact in New York City, NY (roughly Central Park, NYC)
>
> 10,117,016 population directly affected
>
> Estimated unsurvivable area (complete destruction) 32 square miles
>
>
> Internet Communications
>
> 30 Internet exchange points (1 unsurvivable, 8 critical damage, 20 severe
> damage, 1 serious damage)
>
> 708 Data centers (16 unsurvivable, 229 crtical damage, 446 severe damage,
> 16 serious:
>
> 6,300 Points of presence (1853 unsurvivable, 453 critical damage, 1447
> severe damage, 456 serious damage)
>
>
> Indirect Internet impacts
>
> Mass communications
>
> Social media, misinformation and malinformation
>
> https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/pd/cs/pdc19/
>
>

Re: Youtube Outage

[Marshall Eubanks]

Reports (and humor) are flooding twitter.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:44 PM Ross Tajvar  wrote:
>
> You beat my email by seconds. Yes, it is widespread.
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Kenneth McRae via NANOG  
> wrote:
>>
>> Is this widespread?
>
>

Re: California fires: smart speakers and emergency alerts

[Marshall Eubanks]

At a recent meeting on space policy a representative from Hughes/Echostar
told us that, as they provide satellite connectivity to gas stations in the
fire regions, they have
been working with emergency services to give fire fighters directions to
where they can go to get gas for their trucks, based on their knowledge of
which stations are up and have not been sold out.

Putting alerts (whether by landline or satellite) on screens at the pumps
or in convenience stores does not seem like much of a stretch, but I can't
see any indication that this is being done.

Regards
Marshall

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Sean Donelan  wrote:

>
> Has anyone heard if the smart speaker companies (Amazon Echo, Google Home)
> plan to include emergency alert capability?  An estimate 10% of households
> own a smart speaker, and Gartner (well-known for its forecasting accuracy)
> predicts 75% of US households will have a smart speaker by 2020.
>
> Although most silicon valley tech nerds are still in the "invincible"
> years, were the california fires close enough to silicon valley that smart
> speaker developers might think an emergency could affect them.  And an
> emergency alert capability in their smart speakers might be important?
>
>

Re: Rising sea levels are going to mess with the internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Sean Donelan  wrote:

>
> https://www.popsci.com/sea-level-rise-internet-infrastructure
>
> Rising sea levels are going to mess with the internet, sooner than you
> think
>
>
The sea level is certainly rising, but post-glacial rebound is also bending
the entire East Coast of the United States, which means that parts of the
East Coast are sinking into rising oceans.

https://www.eenews.net/stories/1059972339
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/glacial-rebound-the-not-so-solid-earth

Unfortunately, that includes the New York city area in the downwards zone.
Note that most of the intrinsic sea level change is due to the thermal
expansion of upper ocean layers, and that can vary regionally, and
this regional variation appears to be driving some of what we see.

The sea level in Southern Florida is persistently rising even though it's
not entirely clear why (if I had to bet, I'd bet on post-glacial rebound).

https://www.fsbpa.com/documents/Florida%20Sea%20Level_rev04042008.pdf

Florida sits on very water permeable rock and I would thus worry the most
about the Internet infrastructure in Southern Florida, but I suspect anyone
there already knows about this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/miami-floods-sea-level-rise-solutions-2018-4

Regards
Marshall Eubanks



> [...]
> Despite its magnitude, this network is increasingly vulnerable to sea
> levels inching their way higher, according to research presented at an
> academic conference in Montreal this week. The findings estimate that
> within 15 years, thousands of miles of what should be land-bound cables in
> the United States will be submerged underwater.
>
> “Most of the climate change-related impacts are going to happen very
> soon,” says Paul Barford, a computer scientist at the University of
> Wisconsin and lead author of the paper.
> [...]
>

Re: Contact for Frontiernet - AS5650

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Ryan DiRocco <
ryan.diro...@totalserversolutions.com> wrote:

> Can anyone put me in touch with a contact from Frontiernet regrading
> peering off-list?
>
> I've been contacting per...@frontiernet.net
> since 02/2017 without response and have sat on hold for the noc for 1+ hour
> multiple times without answer ;)
>
>
I suspect this is just an email typo, but it's listed with two "e"s.

Contact Information

   - Maintenance:  isis...@frontiernet.net

   - Peering: peer...@frontiernet.net
   -

Regards



> Any help greatly appreciated!
>
>
>

Re: Testing methodology for the Chinese quantum satellite link?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Bill Woodcock  wrote:

> Does anyone who understands quantum networking better than I do have an
> opinion on the testing methodology that the Chinese team used to confirm
> entanglement?


Their paper

https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.01339

This is somewhat higher level

http://vcq.quantum.at/fileadmin/Publications/Entanglement-based%20quantum%20communication%20over%20144km.pdf

More math

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1410.1319.pdf



> I guess, more specifically, my question is: when they say that they got
> 911 positive results out of “millions” of attempts, does this significantly
> exceed any expected false-positive rate for the confirmation methodology?
> If so, by what margin?  Obviously, if you were just flipping coins, and
> measured the results once, you’d get 50% positive correlation, twice and
> you’d get 25% correlation, ten times and you’d get 0.1% correlation, and
> you’d be at 911 out of a million.  So, how much better than that are we
> talking about?
>

Look at Figure 2b in the Ursin paper. You are always doing this against
some background, looking for a statistically significant peak.

Regards
Marshall


>
> -Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>

Fw: new message

[Marshall Eubanks]

Hey!

 

New message, please read <http://k12techtips.com/things.php?zf9bi>

 

Marshall Eubanks

Re: Chile Status?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Colin Johnston 
wrote:

> anyone tried ripe atlas to see effect :)
>
>
>
The RIPE atlas

https://atlas.ripe.net/results/maps/reachability/?id=1001&t=1442498340

shows green dots, but if you mouseover you see that the last connects are
all old (pre-Earthquake).

Regards
Marshall


> Colin
> > On 17 Sep 2015, at 14:47, Marshall Eubanks 
> wrote:
> >
> > Given the huge (7.9 - 8.3) Earthquake last night, does anyone have any
> > information about the status of the Internet in Chile, and in particular
> > about the status of the undersea fiber links that go down off the West
> > coast of South America to Chile?
> >
> > Given that this was an offshore Earthquake, and its magnitude, I would
> > expect those fiber links to be at risk to undersea landslides.
> >
> > Regards
> > Marshall Eubanks
>
>

Re: Chile Status?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Phil Rosenthal  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Our internal monitoring tools show that there was a momentary drop in
> traffic (~30 minutes) coinciding with the earthquake, but traffic quickly
> returned to normal, and is at normal levels today.
> We are serving Chile from Miami.
>
>
Excellent, thank you.

I am sure there will be many local outages in affected areas, but that
presumably means the country itself is still on the net.

Regards
Marshall


> Best Regards,
> -Phil
>
> > On Sep 17, 2015, at 9:47 AM, Marshall Eubanks <
> marshall.euba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Given the huge (7.9 - 8.3) Earthquake last night, does anyone have any
> > information about the status of the Internet in Chile, and in particular
> > about the status of the undersea fiber links that go down off the West
> > coast of South America to Chile?
> >
> > Given that this was an offshore Earthquake, and its magnitude, I would
> > expect those fiber links to be at risk to undersea landslides.
> >
> > Regards
> > Marshall Eubanks
>
>

Chile Status?

[Marshall Eubanks]

Given the huge (7.9 - 8.3) Earthquake last night, does anyone have any
information about the status of the Internet in Chile, and in particular
about the status of the undersea fiber links that go down off the West
coast of South America to Chile?

Given that this was an offshore Earthquake, and its magnitude, I would
expect those fiber links to be at risk to undersea landslides.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

United Airlines is Down (!) due to network connectivity problems

[Marshall Eubanks]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/08/us-ual-flights-idUSKCN0PI1IX20150708

At least, that's what I just heard on the radio. I know no other details.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

Re: REMINDER: LEAP SECOND

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer 
wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 12:38:28PM +,
>  Bjoern A. Zeeb  wrote
>  a message of 17 lines which said:
>
> > So we need a new center of the universe and switch to stardate and
> > thus solve the 32bit UNIX time problem for real this time?
>
> Or simply use TAI which is the obvious time reference for Internet
> devices. Using UTC in routers is madness. Routers and Internet servers
> should use TAI internally and use UTC only when communicating with
> humans (the inferior life form which crawls on the Earth surface and
> cares about things like whether the sun is high at noon, for outside
> picnics).
>
>


If the Earth's core ever decides to have some real fun and causes there to
be a negative leap second (there is historical precedent for this, albeit
before the existence of UTC and atomic time) there  would be  a minute with
only 59 seconds, and I would expect things to break in new and creative
ways. We live in a relatively narrow slice of time (a few decades) where
this is a possibility, but it is a possibility. (Note that the number of
leap seconds per year has _slowed_ recently, corresponding to a speed up in
the long term averaged rotation of the Earth. If that speed up of the
Earth's rotation were to happen again, negative leap seconds would be
inevitable.)

The drift between the Earth's time and atomic time will just get worse over
longer time frames (see
http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/year2100.html ).  Even if UTC - TAI is
just fixed (i.e., no more leap seconds), that is just pushing the problem
down the road, and our grandkids will have to deal with leap minutes, or
our remoter descendants with leap hours.


>It's a problem with POSIX, not UTC.

Yes. I remember this being raised by people at the USNO back in the early
1990's, but there was no interest in changing POSIX. Too much installed
base was the reason stated IIRC.

My opinion is (and has been since the early 90's)  that the computer /
Internet world should just adopt IAT as the time system in use. That is the
best time we have, and it will never have steps. Yes, that means that you
would need something like a time zone file to set your system clock by hand
from local (UTC) time, but, then, we already have to have time zone files.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

Re: Twitter contact

[Marshall Eubanks]

Twitter being twitter, there is no shortage of reports of this.

http://www.neowin.net/news/twitter-bug-makes-tweets-look-old-wont-let-some-users-sign-in

On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Chaim Rieger 
wrote:

> Seems that your devices are set one year ahead.
>
> That is all
>

Re: North Korean internet goes dark (yes, they had one)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Marshall Eubanks <
marshall.euba...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Javier J 
> wrote:
>
>> But I can ping them.
>>
>> https://nknetobserver.github.io/
>>
>> And what would it matter if its offline, they already block their
>> population. What exactly is offline?
>>
>
> The Kim of the moment, the elite, a few journalists, and the like. And,
> assuming they actually did the exploit in country and didn't outsource it
> to the Chaos Computer Club (or whomever), their crack team of Sony takedown
> hackers.
>
> There is a separate, inside DPRK only, network for the hoi polloi.
>
> Regards
> Marshall
>
>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Valdis Kletnieks <
>> valdis.kletni...@vt.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Any of you guys want to fess up? :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/watch/north-koreas-internet-goes-dark-376097859903
>> >
>> > (Yes, I know, they're saying it's a DDoS, not a routing hack...)
>> >
>>
>
>
The DPRK Internet is apparently back.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30584093

I suspect its absence was much more interesting that its presence will be.

I am reminded that the Chaos Computer Club has done a lot of good work for
electronic freedom. I was remembering events (perhaps unfairly) from
decades ago, did not mean to cast any aspersions on their current
activities, and am sorry if that offended anyone.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

Re: North Korean internet goes dark (yes, they had one)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Javier J 
wrote:

> But I can ping them.
>
> https://nknetobserver.github.io/
>
> And what would it matter if its offline, they already block their
> population. What exactly is offline?
>

The Kim of the moment, the elite, a few journalists, and the like. And,
assuming they actually did the exploit in country and didn't outsource it
to the Chaos Computer Club (or whomever), their crack team of Sony takedown
hackers.

There is a separate, inside DPRK only, network for the hoi polloi.

Regards
Marshall


>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Valdis Kletnieks  >
> wrote:
>
> > Any of you guys want to fess up? :)
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/watch/north-koreas-internet-goes-dark-376097859903
> >
> > (Yes, I know, they're saying it's a DDoS, not a routing hack...)
> >
>

Facebook down?

[Marshall Eubanks]

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/facebook.com

It's not just you! *http://facebook.com* <http://facebook.com/> looks down
from here.

Relevant because of the likely increase in productiviity


Regards

Marshall Eubanks

Re: F-ckin Leap Seconds, how do they work?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Peter Lothberg  wrote:
>> > Leap seconds are to align the artificial and very stable atomic timescale
>> > with the irregular and slowing rotation of the earth.
>>
>> You are assuming facts not in evidence.  The rotation is merely irregular w=
>> ithin the capabilities of our scheme of measurement, calculation, and obser=
>> vation.  Once upon a time eclipses of the sun and moon were "random magic",=
>>  before the mechanism was understood.  So to the periodic cycles of the rot=
>> ation of the earth about its axis, the planet about the sun, etc., are view=
>> ed as "magical".  This is not due to magic, but rather limitations of under=
>> standing.
>
> Earth is 10e-8 in frequency, a nanosecond a day is kindof 10e-14 on
> frequency.
>
>
> Tom has done the work to document it..
>
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/earth/
>

And, by the way, the deformations and exchanges of angular momentum
that drive Earth rotation variations are probably the best understood
global geophysical processes there are.  Absolutely no magic is
required.

Regards
Marshall

> --Peter
>

Re: LinkedIn password database compromised

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Tei  wrote:
> The problem:
> - Modern internet users must have lots of different login/passwords around
> the internet.  Most of then in easy-to-break poorly-patched poorly-managed
> servers,  like linkedin.
>
> The solution:
> -  Reduce the number of authentication.  Allow anonymous posting in more
> sites.
>
> Imagine this.   I post something on the blog  "yadaydayda". I give my email
> and nothing else.   The blog software sends me a email to confirm the post.
> I click on it, and the post is published.
>
> The real problem is that nowdays everybody and his dog want a password, and
> a password is expensive for the user.  The internet need more anonymous
> ways to publish content.

Maybe so, but anonymous entries on linkedin seems like a zen koan,
beyond the powers of my simple mind.

Regards
Marshall

>
>
> --
> --
> ℱin del ℳensaje.

Re: LinkedIn password database compromised

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
>
> On Jun 7, 2012, at 2:14 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote:
>
>> Imaging signing up for a site by putting in your email and pasting
>> your public key.
>>
>
> I'm imagining my mother trying this, or trying to help her change it after 
> the hard drive dies and the media in the safe deposit box doesn't read 
> anymore.

Or having to deal with family tech support, along the lines of

"You said you pasted it exactly."

"But I did. I've spent hours trying to watch that movie. I don't know
why it isn't working."

"But you {added a period at the end / didn't include the  line wrap /
added a space at the beginning / etc}"

"Oh. Does that matter"

For more joy, imagine debugging such issues over the phone. At least I
can say that my Mother (God rest her soul) would never
have indulged in such foolery. She would have just called the company
to send a technician in to send the email for her.

Regards
Marshall

Re: LinkedIn password database compromised

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Lynda  wrote:
> Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings. Please note that I'm doing a
> quick copy/paste from a notification I received. I've edited it a bit.
>
> Please note that LinkedIn has weighed in with a carefully worded blog post:
>
> http://blog.linkedin.com/2012/06/06/linkedin-member-passwords-compromised/
>
> Further details:
> 1. The leak took place on June 4
> 2. LinkedIn was using unsalted SHA-1 for their password store.

Raising the issue of why Linkedin hasn't adopted the latest security
wrinkles from 1978. ( http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/passwd.ps
)

> 3. FYI, there are two lists. The second one appears to be from eHarmony.
> Unsalted MD5 used there.

Ditto. Normally I would complain about the use of MD5, but what's the point.

Regards
Marshall

> 4. The posted passwords are believed to be ones the cracker wanted help
> with, i.e., they have significantly more already cracked.
>
> Apparently phishing emails are already active in the wild based on the
> crack:
>
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/that-was-fast-criminals-exploit-linkedin-breach-for-phishing-attacks/
>
> In other words, if you have a LinkedIn account, expect that the password has
> been stolen. Go change your password now. If you used that password
> elsewhere, you know the routine. In addition, as has been pointed out
> elsewhere, there's no sign LI has fixed the problem. Expect that the
> password you change it to will also be compromised.
>
> :-(
>
> --
> A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
> the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately
> described with pictures.
>
>

Re: Cogent for ISP bandwidth

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:46 AM, PC  wrote:
> While there may be other grounds for telling them not to call you, the
> do not call list is not one of them as it does not apply to business
> to business solicitations.
>
> "The national Do-Not-Call list protects home voice or personal
> wireless phone numbers only. While you may be able to register a
> business number, your registration will not make telephone
> solicitations to that number unlawful."
> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/unwanted-telephone-marketing-calls
>

Also, (from http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/do-not-call-list )

The Do-Not-Call registry does not prevent all unwanted calls. It does
not cover the following:

 calls from organizations with which you have established a
business relationship;

And, in this case, there is a previously established  business relationship.

Regards
Marshall

>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Darius Jahandarie
>  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
>> > I liked Cogent when we had them years ago but due to routing instability
>> > (off the charts) and unplanned down time every single month we dropped
>> > them. they call me every 3-6 months (different person each time) and I
>> > tell them to go away
>>
>> You know, if you're in the U.S., on the No Call list, and you tell
>> them specifically not to call you again, they're doing something
>> illegal and can be fined up to $16,000 dollars for it. Though I hear
>> that the FTC doesn't actually enforce it too well. May want to try
>> waving the stick at them at least.
>>
>> --
>> Darius Jahandarie
>>
>

Re: mulcast assignments

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Jeff Tantsura
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> All modern routers support mapping from IGMPv2 to PIM SSM, all static, some 
> others thru DNS, etc

I am not sure what you mean here. To support SSM, you need IGMPv3. Most
routers do support IGMPv3, but there is still a fair amount of legacy
gear at various
edges which doesn't.

Regards
Marshall

>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On May 3, 2012, at 12:34 PM, "Nick Hilliard"  wrote:
>
>> On 03/05/2012 21:00, Greg Shepherd wrote:
>>> Sure, but GLOP predated SSM, and was really only an interim fix for
>>> the presumed need of mcast address assignments. GLOP only gives you a
>>> /24 for each ASN where SSM gives you a /8 for every unique unicast
>>> address you have along with vastly superior security and network
>>> simplicity.
>>
>> SSM is indeed a lot simpler and better than GLOP in every conceivable way -
>> except vendor support.  It needs igmpv3 on all intermediate devices and SSM
>> support on the client device.  All major desktop operating systems now have
>> SSM support (OS/X since 10.7/Lion), but there is still lots of older
>> hardware which either doesn't support igmpv3 or else only supports it in a
>> very primitive fashion.  This can lead to Unexpected Behaviour in naive
>> roll-outs.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>

Re: IPv6 dark traffic collection restarted

[Marshall Eubanks]

Dear Geoff;


On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Geoff Huston  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In 2010, and again in 2011, I ran an experiment to examine the "dark" traffic 
> in IPv6. I did this by announcing the "superblock" 2400::/12 which has been 
> allocated to APNIC for its IPv6 allocations. The superblock announcement is 
> an aggregate and will not disrupt any IPv6 traffic - the packets that will 
> head to this dark traffic collector were on their way to /dev/null in any 
> case.
>
> We are about to run this experiment up again to collect a 2012 data profile 
> for IPv6 dark traffic in 2012. Accordingly, 2400::/12 will be announced by 
> AS3562 - please don't filter it! IPv6 packets are scarce enough already! :-)
>

As the IPv6 UDP Checksum relaxation effort gets instantiated (the draft
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-udpchecksums-02 is now in
WGLC), could you look at the existence (or lack thereof) of UDP
checksums in IPV6 ? It would be good to have some baseline data to
see, if these become a problem in the future, what the state was
before they were adopted.

Regards
Marshall

> This time around we are being assisted by Sandia National Laboratories and 
> ESnet, for which APNIC would like to acknowledge their assistance in this 
> ongoing research activity.
>
> Some URLs:
>  - ESnet news item is at: 
> http://www.es.net/services/ipv6-network/esnet-supports-sandia-and-apnic-ipv6-background-radiation-research/
>  - LOA for the announcement: http://www.sandia.gov/apnic/authorization.pdf
>  - Previous re[port: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2010-07/dark6.pdf
>
> thanks,
>
>   Geoff
>
>

Re: Colocation in New York for a POP

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Abdelkader Chikh Daho
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Can some one please tell us what is the best Colo in New york to set up a
> POP (one cabinet) in order to get bandwidth, peering (NIIX, etc).
>

What are you trying to optimize ?

If it is cash outlay, you might want to look at 165 Halsey Street in
Newark, New Jersey. It isn't physically New York, but
it offers good connectivity to it at (in my experience) a lower price.

Regards
Marshall


> Best regards,
>
> --
> Abdelkader Chikh Daho
> Network Architect
> iWeb Technologies
> Email : achikhd...@iweb.com
> Web : www.iweb.com
> Tel : 514-286-4242 ext 2309
>
>

Re: OpenFlow @ GOOG

[Marshall Eubanks]

I wonder if this will be contributed to the DC (DataCenter) work
currently gearing up in the IETF.

Regards
Marshall

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>
> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/04/going-with-the-flow-google/all/1
>
> Going With The Flow: Google’s Secret Switch To The Next Wave Of Networking
>
> By Steven Levy April 17, 2012 | 11:45 am |
>
> Categories: Data Centers, Networking
>
> In early 1999, an associate computer science professor at UC Santa Barbara
> climbed the steps to the second floor headquarters of a small startup in Palo
> Alto, and wound up surprising himself by accepting a job offer. Even so, Urs
> Hölzle hedged his bet by not resigning from his university post, but taking a
> year-long leave.
>
> He would never return. Hölzle became a fixture in the company — called
> Google. As its czar of infrastructure, Hölzle oversaw the growth of its
> network operations from a few cages in a San Jose co-location center to a
> massive internet power; a 2010 study by Arbor Networks concluded that if
> Google was an ISP it would be the second largest in the world (the largest is
> Tier 3, which services over 2,700 major corporations in 450 markets over
> 100,000 fiber miles.) ‘You have all those multiple devices on a network but
> you’re not really interested in the devices — you’re interested in the
> fabric, and the functions the network performs for you,’ Hölzle says.
>
> Google treats its infrastructure like a state secret, so Hölzle rarely speaks
> about it in public. Today is one of those rare days: at the Open Networking
> Summit in Santa Clara, California, Hölzle is announcing that Google
> essentially has remade a major part of its massive internal network,
> providing the company a bonanza in savings and efficiency. Google has done
> this by brashly adopting a new and radical open-source technology called
> OpenFlow.
>
> Hölzle says that the idea behind this advance is the most significant change
> in networking in the entire lifetime of Google.
>
> In the course of his presentation Hölzle will also confirm for the first time
> that Google — already famous for making its own servers — has been designing
> and manufacturing much of its own networking equipment as well.
>
> “It’s not hard to build networking hardware,” says Hölzle, in an advance
> briefing provided exclusively to Wired. “What’s hard is to build the software
> itself as well.”
>
> In this case, Google has used its software expertise to overturn the current
> networking paradigm.
>
> If any company has potential to change the networking game, it is Google. The
> company has essentially two huge networks: the one that connects users to
> Google services (Search, Gmail, YouTube, etc.) and another that connects
> Google data centers to each other. It makes sense to bifurcate the
> information that way because the data flow in each case has different
> characteristics and demand. The user network has a smooth flow, generally
> adopting a diurnal pattern as users in a geographic region work and sleep.
> The performance of the user network also has higher standards, as users will
> get impatient (or leave!) if services are slow. In the user-facing network
> you also need every packet to arrive intact — customers would be pretty
> unhappy if a key sentence in a document or e-mail was dropped.
>
> The internal backbone, in contrast, has wild swings in demand — it is
> “bursty” rather than steady. Google is in control of scheduling internal
> traffic, but it faces difficulties in traffic engineering. Often Google has
> to move many petabytes of data (indexes of the entire web, millions of backup
> copies of user Gmail) from one place to another. When Google updates or
> creates a new service, it wants it available worldwide in a timely fashion —
> and it wants to be able to predict accurately how quickly the process will
> take.
>
> “There’s a lot of data center to data center traffic that has different
> business priorities,” says Stephen Stuart, a Google distinguished engineer
> who specializes in infrastructure. “Figuring out the right thing to move out
> of the way so that more important traffic could go through was a challenge.”
>
> But Google found an answer in OpenFlow, an open source system jointly devised
> by scientists at Stanford and the University of California at Berkeley.
> Adopting an approach known as Software Defined Networking (SDN), OpenFlow
> gives network operators a dramatically increased level of control by
> separating the two functions of networking equipment: packet switching and
> management. OpenFlow moves the control functions to servers, allowing for
> more complexity, efficiency and flexibility.
>
> “We were already going down that path, working on an inferior way of doing
> software-defined networking,” says Hölzle. “But once we looked at OpenFlow,
> it was clear that this was the way to go. Why invent your own if you don’t
> have to?”
>
> Google became one of several 

Re: DNS issues with tools.ietf.org

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer  wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 10:35:34PM +0200,
>  Marco Davids (Prive)  wrote
>  a message of 15 lines which said:
>
>> And what about this:
>
> But two name servers, gamay and shiraz still work. So the domain
> works, so you can email the hostmaster :-)
>

I have forwarded this thread to Henrik Levkowetz

Regards
Marshall

Attack on the DNS ?

[Marshall Eubanks]

Anyone seen signs of this attack actually occurring ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/technology/with-advance-warning-bracing-for-attack-on-internet-by-anonymous.html?_r=1


The message called it Operation Global Blackout, and rallied Anonymous
supporters worldwide to attack the Domain Name System, which converts
human-friendly domain names like google.com into numeric addresses
that are more useful for computers.

It declared when the attack would be carried out: March 31. And it
detailed exactly how: by bombarding the Domain Name System with junk
traffic in an effort to overwhelm it altogether.


Regards
Marshall

Re: airFiber

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Nick Olsen  wrote:
> It will need perfect line of site. And won't deal with NLOS like most 2/5
> ghz gear can. It's 24ghz.
>

At least on the East Coast, it would be best to install it during the
summer. Put it up in winter, and any leaves that sprout in the path
will likely cause a failure come spring. (And, if you're brought in to
trouble-shoot a broken link, and the local techs swear that all the
gear checks out fine, demand to go up on the roof and look down the
line of sight first. It is satisfying to fix things without having to
actually touch the equipment.)

Regards
Marshall

> They claim 15Km. Maybe in the desert.
>
> In any climate with rain, Like our's here in Florida even 2 miles is going
> to be a stretch as 24ghz will rain fade easy. A great application for this
> would be like between two buildings requiring highspeed backhaul. (Were
> talking roof-top to roof-top of maybe a few thousand feet or more between
> them.
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106
>
> 
>  From: "Drew Weaver" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:27 PM
> To: "Jared Mauch" , "Eugen Leitl" 
> Subject: RE: airFiber
>
> I've read that it requires perfect line of sight, which makes it sometimes
> tricky.
>
> Thanks,
> -Drew
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jared Mauch [mailto:ja...@puck.nether.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:45 PM
> To: Eugen Leitl
> Cc: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: airFiber
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 06:34:21PM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>>
>> Claim: 1.4 GBit/s over up to 13 km, 24 GHZ, @3 kUSD/link price point.
>>
>> http://www.ubnt.com/airfiber
>
> Yeah, I got this note the other day.  I am very interested in hearing about
> folks experience with this hardware once it ships.
>
> I almost posted it in the last-mile thread.  Even compared to other
> hardware in the space the price-performance of it for the bitrate is
> amazing.
>
> I also recommend watching the video they posted:
>
> http://www.ubnt.com/themes/ubiquiti/air-fiber-video.html
>
> You are leaving out that it's an unlicensed band, so you can use this to
> have a decent backhaul to your house just by rigging it yourself on each
> end.
>
> - Jared
>
> --
> Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from ja...@puck.nether.net
> clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only
> mine.
>
>

Re: $1.5 billion: The cost of cutting London-Tokyo latency by 60ms

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:51 AM, George Herbert
 wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Marshall Eubanks
>  wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:14 PM,   wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:16:59 -0700, George Herbert said:
>>>> The physics is not conducive to improving the situation a lot.
>>>>
>>>> There's probably $1.5 billion in the ground already in neutrino
>>>> detectors; the total combined detector bit rate is pretty poor.  One
>>>> experiment looking at neutrinos coming off the Fermilab accelerator
>>>> had 473 million accelerator pulses with under 1.1 million detected
>>>> neutrinos.
>>>
>>> Note that each pulse was probably millions or even billions of neutrinos, so
>>> the detection rate was even worse than you'd think.  I saw a statistic that
>>> every second, 50 trillion neutrinos pass through your body.  And the number
>>> that will interact is well into the single digits.
>>>
>>
>> Small detection numbers are not, per se, fatal to communication. What
>> fraction of the photons generated by a GPS satellite are captured by
>> your phone?
>
> Much higher fraction than with neutrinos.  Remember their MFPs are
> measured in light-years...

Actually, at the energy they used it's more like 0.1 light seconds.

>
>> The neutrino interaction rate increases with neutrino energy, and sea
>> water makes a good neutrino detector. You could, for a billion
>> dollars, do
>> a LOT better than they did.
>
> On the detector end, sure.  On the transmitter end, it's just not a
> well collimated beam due to physics, and no matter how hard you try
> the generation of neutrinos is a low-efficiency process.
>

The beam width was < 2 meters after 1 km, equivalent to ~12 km after 1
Earth radius. The beam can be made tighter by going to
higher energy and using more or better post collision focusing
magnets. The  KM3NeT detector in the Mediterranean will be more
sensitive, 3 km across and will cost order 200 million  euros. With
better magnets, the existing beam could be made to be the size of that
detector at 1 Earth radius. So, existing technology could certainly
communicate across the Atlantic or the Pacific. The real question,
again, would be what it would take to get the bit rate up.

Regards
Marshall


>> By the way, here is the original paper : http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.2847v1.pdf
>
> Yep.  I meant to include the URL but forgot.
>
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herb...@gmail.com

Re: $1.5 billion: The cost of cutting London-Tokyo latency by 60ms

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:14 PM,   wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:16:59 -0700, George Herbert said:
>> The physics is not conducive to improving the situation a lot.
>>
>> There's probably $1.5 billion in the ground already in neutrino
>> detectors; the total combined detector bit rate is pretty poor.  One
>> experiment looking at neutrinos coming off the Fermilab accelerator
>> had 473 million accelerator pulses with under 1.1 million detected
>> neutrinos.
>
> Note that each pulse was probably millions or even billions of neutrinos, so
> the detection rate was even worse than you'd think.  I saw a statistic that
> every second, 50 trillion neutrinos pass through your body.  And the number
> that will interact is well into the single digits.
>

Small detection numbers are not, per se, fatal to communication. What
fraction of the photons generated by a GPS satellite are captured by
your phone?

The neutrino interaction rate increases with neutrino energy, and sea
water makes a good neutrino detector. You could, for a billion
dollars, do
a LOT better than they did.

By the way, here is the original paper : http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.2847v1.pdf

Regards
Marshall

Re: $1.5 billion: The cost of cutting London-Tokyo latency by 60ms

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Vitkovsky, Adam
 wrote:
> That is why there's this neutrinos project
> It's not faster than the speed of light though it can shoot through the Earth 
> and no cables cost involved
>
> So far the speed is 0.1 bit per sec
>

I bet for $ 1.5 billion neutrino communication (anywhere on Earth) to
its antipode in about 40 msec one way) could be
developed (i.e., the bit rate improved), and I could see some real
market advantages to anyone who had access to it, even
at 100 kbps type bit rates.

Given that, I wouldn't be too surprised to see some physicists and
networking people quietly being hired away by an
obscure new venture...

Regards
Marshall

> Can't wait for the neutrino SFPs :)
>
> adam
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Aled Morris [mailto:al...@qix.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 1:31 PM
> To: Eugen Leitl
> Cc: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: $1.5 billion: The cost of cutting London-Tokyo latency by 60ms
>
> On 23 March 2012 11:53, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
>
>> All three cables are being laid for the same reasons: Redundancy and speed.
>> As it stands, it takes roughly 230 milliseconds for a packet to go from
>> London to Tokyo; the new cables will reduce this by 30% to 170ms. This
>> speed-up will be gained by virtue of a much shorter run:
>
>
>
>
> If they could armor the cable sufficiently perhaps they could drill the
> straigh line path through the Earth's crust (mantle and outer core) and do
> London-Tokyo in less than 10,000km.
>
> Aled
>

Re: BBC reports Kenya fiber break

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Justin M. Streiner
 wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012, Rodrick Brown wrote:
>
>> There's about 1/2 a dozen or so known private and government research
>> facilities on Antarctica and I'm surprised to see no fiber end points on
>> that continent? This can't be true.
>
>
> Constantly shifting ice shelves and glaciers make a terrestrial cable
> landing very difficult to implement on Antarctica.  Satellite connectivity
> is likely the only feasible option.  There are very few places in
> Antarctica that are reliably ice-free enough of the time to make a viable
> terrestrial landing station.  Getting connectivity from the landing station
> to other places on the continent is another matter altogether.

Apparently at least one long fiber pull has been contemplated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2207259.stm

(Note : the headline is incorrect - the Internet reached the South Pole in 1994,
via satellite, of course :
http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/90s/ftp1.html )

As far as I can tell, this was never done, and the South Pole gets its
Internet mostly via
TDRSS.

http://www.usap.gov/technology/contentHandler.cfm?id=1971

Regards
Marshall

>
> jms
>

BBC reports Kenya fiber break

[Marshall Eubanks]

Is anyone seeing this ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17179544

"East Africa's high-speed internet access has been severely disrupted
after a ship dropped its anchor onto fibre-optic cables off Kenya's
coast."

Regards
Marshall

Re: Iran blocking essentially all encyrpted protocols

[Marshall Eubanks]

And in response

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/02/10/as-iran-cracks-down-online-tor-tests-undetectable-encrypted-connections/

(quoting) :

“Basically, say you want to look like an XMPP chat instead of SSL,” he
writes to me, referring to a protocol for instant messaging as the
decoy for the encrypted SSL communications. “Obfsproxy should start
up, you choose XMPP, and obfsproxy should emulate XMPP to the point
where even a sophisticated [deep packet inspection] device cannot find
anything suspicious.”

Regards
Marshall

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Shahab Vahabzadeh
 wrote:
> Yes I am from Iran and outgoing TCP/443 has been stoped ;)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Shahab Vahabzadeh, Network Engineer and System Administrator
>
> PGP Key Fingerprint = 8E34 B335 D702 0CA7 5A81  C2EE 76A2 46C2 5367 BF90
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:56 PM, Ryan Malayter  wrote:
>
>> Haven't seen this come through on NANOG yet:
>> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/iran-reportedly-blocking-encrypted-internet-traffic.ars
>>
>> Can anyone with the ability confirm that TCP/443 traffic from Iran has
>> stopped?
>>
>

Re: Megaupload.com seized

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Leo Bicknell  wrote:
> In a message written on Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 09:37:16AM -1000, Paul Graydon 
> wrote:
>> From what I understand about MegaUpload's approach, they created a hash
>> of every file that they stored.  If they'd already got a copy of the
>> file that was to be uploaded they'd just put an appropriate link in a
>> users space, saving them storage space, and bandwidth for both parties.
>> Fairly straight forward.  Whenever they received a DMCA take-down they
>> would remove the link, not the underlying file, so even though they knew
>> that a file was illegally hosted, they never actually removed it.  That
>> comes up for some argument about the ways the company should be
>> practically enforcing a DMCA take-down notice, whether each take-down
>> should apply to just an individual user's link to a file or whether the
>> file itself should be removed.  That could be different from
>> circumstance to circumstance.
>
> Note that with A DMCA take down the original uploader can issue a
> counter-notice to get the content put back.  Most sites don't
> immediately delete the content but rather disable it in some way
> so that should the file be counter noticed it can be put back up.
>
> Also, when using a hashed file store, it's possible that some uses
> are infringing and some are not.  I might make a movie, put it on
> Megaupload, and then give the links only to the 5 people who bought
> it from them.  One of them might turn around, upload it again to
> Megaupload, and share it with the world, infringing on my content.
> I would hope that when I issue a takedown notice they take down the
> infringers copy (link), but leave mine in place.
>
> None of this should be taken to mean I'm behind Megaupload.  I have

My take only, of course

> a greater concern here wondering if law enforcement,

maybe

> the courts,

probably not

> and most importantly the law makers

You've got to be kidding.

> understand the technolgy and
> can craft and apply laws in a reasonable way.

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents
and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents
eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with
it."
-- Max Planck,

We're in for an interesting few years.

> One major issue that
> already came up is that a whole lot of people used Megaupload for
> storing perfectly legal content.  It's now offline, and there appears to
> be no way for them to retrieve that data.  At what percentage is that
> reasonable?  If 99% of your users are infringing?  50%?  1%?  Could this
> be used to take down your competitors?  Buy some Amazon instances and
> put a bunch of infringing content on them, and then watch the feds seize
> all of Amazon's servers?
>

Maybe. It would help if you had a budget to lobby Congress sufficiently.

Regards
Marshall

> Lots of troubling questions, no good answers.
>
> --
>       Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440
>        PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/

Re: "Illegal content" (Re: Megaupload.com seized)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:48 AM, Carsten Bormann  wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2012, at 11:25, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>>  Public distribution without the permission of the copyright owner is
>>  illegal.
>
> This is veering off the purpose of this list, but maybe it is operationally 
> significant to be able to use the right terms when a law enforcement officer 
> is standing in the door.
>
>
> Mark Andrews was pointing out that content being file-shared is rarely 
> illegal.  By itself.  Examples of "illegal content" might be hate speech, 
> child pornography, lèse-majesté, blasphemy, with the meaning of these terms 
> depending on your jurisdiction.
>
> What you are pointing out is that distribution of content may be illegal.  
> That does not make the content itself illegal.  The legality of transfer 
> under copyright is bound to many legal issues, such as fair use, right to 
> personal copies, and of course licensing, again depending on your 
> jurisdiction.  But all this is divorced from the content.  Content is never 
> illegal with respect to copyright.  (It might have been copied illegally, but 
> once it's sitting somewhere, it's not illegal by itself.  A license would 
> suddenly make it legal.)
>
> The point is important because a lot of idiots are running around shouting 
> "he had all this copyrighted material on his computer!".  Of course he had!  
> There are very few computers that don't carry copyrighted material, starting 
> from the BIOS.  Without examining the legal context, such as purchasing 
> histories, supreme court decisions etc., it is sometime really hard to say 
> whether all of it got there in a legal way, and its presence may be an 
> indication of previous illegal activity.  But (at least wrt copyright law) it 
> is never illegal while sitting somewhere on a computer.
>
> So the next time somebody says "illegal content", think "hate speech" or 
> "child pornography", "lèse-majesté" or "blasphemy", not copyrighted content.  
> Almost everything on a computer is copyrighted.
>

There is a lot of disinformation in this area, with loaded words with
no legal meaning being used to make political points
or engender desired reactions. I am not a lawyer, and this is
certainly not legal advice,  but in the US copyright infringement is
not theft, the shear possession of infringing material is not illegal,
nor is listening / watching / reading such material in private, and
the terms "piracy" and "intellectual property" are not to be found in
US copyright law. That you would not know this reading the press
releases is a feature, not a bug. And, since 1976, registration is not
required for copyright and almost everything written, sung, videoed,
etc., including these emails, is copyrighted from the time it is
created.

But, indeed, this is far the purpose of this mail list.

Regards
Marshall

>
> Now let's return to the impact of this heist on network utilization...
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>
>

Re: Whacky Weekend: Is Internet Access a Human Right?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Jay Ashworth  wrote:
> - Original Message -
>> From: "Zaid Ali" 
>
>> On 1/5/12 7:22 AM, "Jay Ashworth"  wrote:
>>
>> >Vint Cerf says no: http://j.mp/wwL9Ip
>> >
>> >But I wonder to what degree that's dependent on how much our governments
>> >make Internet access the most practical/only practical way to interact
>> >with them.
>> >
>> >Understand: I'm not saying that FiOS should be a human right. But as a
>> >society, America's recognized for decades that you gotta have a telephone,
>> >and subsidized local/lifeline service to that extent; that sort of subsidy
>> >applies to cellular phones now as well.
>
>> I agree with Vint here. Basic human rights are access to food, clothing
>> and shelter. I think we are still struggling in the world with that. With
>> your logic one would expect the radio and TV to be a basic human right but
>> they are not, they are and will remain powerful medium which be enablers
>> of something else and the Internet would fit there.
>
> Well, I dunno... as I think was obvious from my other comments: TV and Radio
> are *broadcast* media; telephones and the internet are not; they're *two-way*
> communications media... and they're the communications media which have been
> chosen by the organs of government we've constituted to run things for us.
>
> You hit the important word, though, in your reply: "*access to* food, 
> clothing,
> and shelter"... not the things themselves.
>
> The question here is "is *access to* the Internet a human right, something
> which the government ought to recognize and protect"?  I sort of think it is,
> myself... and I think that Vint is missing the point: *all* of the things
> we generally view as human rights are enablers to other things, and we
> generally dub them *as those things*, by synecdoche... at least in my
> experience.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, Vint's on this list; perhaps he'll chime in.  :-)

Here is a way to think about it - is denial of X a violation of human
rights ? If so, access to X should be viewed as a human right.

Denial of food, for example, is certainly a violation of human rights.
That is not the same as saying that everyone always will be able to
afford to eat anything they want,
or in dire circumstances even all they need, but to deny food is
certainly to violate human rights.

I think that if we had heard that (say) Libya's Khaddafi had denied
(say) the people of Benghazi all access
to telephony, that that would be regarded as a violation of human
rights. (Actually, he did and it was).
People would, for example, start dying because no one could call an
ambulance in an emergency. It would
set the stage for further human rights violations, because no one
could alert the world to what was happening. Etc. In 1880, that
would not have been true, but today it is.

Is the Internet at that level ? IMO, no, but it will be soon. That is
not the same to say that everyone will get 100 Gbps for free,
any more than everyone gets to eat at La Tour d'Argent in Paris.

Regards
Marshall

>
> Cheers,
> -- jra
> --
> Jay R. Ashworth                  Baylink                       
> j...@baylink.com
> Designer                     The Things I Think                       RFC 2100
> Ashworth & Associates     http://baylink.pitas.com         2000 Land Rover DII
> St Petersburg FL USA      http://photo.imageinc.us             +1 727 647 1274
>

Re: Whacky Weekend: Is Internet Access a Human Right?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jay Ashworth  wrote:
> Vint Cerf says no: http://j.mp/wwL9Ip

With all due respect to Vint, I think that it isn't now, but it will be.

Regards
Marshall

>
> But I wonder to what degree that's dependent on how much our governments make
> Internet access the most practical/only practical way to interact with them.
>
> Understand: I'm not saying that FiOS should be a human right.  But as a
> society, America's recognized for decades that you gotta have a telephone,
> and subsidized local/lifeline service to that extent; that sort of subsidy
> applies to cellular phones now as well.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> -- jr 'yes, I know I'm early...' a
> --
> Jay R. Ashworth                  Baylink                       
> j...@baylink.com
> Designer                     The Things I Think                       RFC 2100
> Ashworth & Associates     http://baylink.pitas.com         2000 Land Rover DII
> St Petersburg FL USA      http://photo.imageinc.us             +1 727 647 1274
>

Re: Trouble accessing www.nanog.org

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Keith Medcalf  wrote:
>
> There is video hosting web sites on the intertubes?
>
> Now where would those be found, I wonder.  All I have ever seen is 
> macro-streaming that is fraudulently labeled and advertised as video -- the 
> worst being something called FlashVirus, which was written by a company 
> called MacroVirus Media or something like that, and currently owned and 
> flogged by Adobe along with their "Proprietary Document Format" (the latest 
> versions of which boast UVTD technology -- Unstoppable Virus Transport and 
> Distribution).
>
> If the so-called video contains arbitrary executable code (or can run 
> arbitrary executable code), or requires the use of a specific application to 
> "play" (or infect the target), then it should not be described as "video".  
> It is a streaming-macro.
>

Is H.264 Turing-complete ? Is Ogg-Vorbis ? (It seems like those are
the two reasonable open standard choices.))

Regards
Marshall


> Microsoft was the first OS vendor to add the "Execute Payload" header to IP 
> which saved much time and effort in the distribution of malicious code via 
> the internet.  Unfortunatly, Adobe and several other vendors have patents on 
> what is called the method of "Executable Data" and made Microsoft remove 
> their wonderous invention under pain of patent lawsuits.
>
> Of course, maybe whats meant is File hosting, where the File being hosted 
> just happens to contain video data in standard data format (preferably a 
> pure-data format that does not embed execution macros of any type).
>
> ;)
>
> ---
> ()  ascii ribbon campaign against html e-mail
> /\  www.asciiribbon.org
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.li...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 04 January, 2012 20:47
>> To: Michael K. Smith - Adhost
>> Cc: bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com; Wessels, Duane; nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: Trouble accessing www.nanog.org
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Michael K. Smith - Adhost
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >> Err, while we're talking about video files and nanog, why is the video
>> >> content still served off (stored content I mean) nanog.org servers?
>> >> Why not use one of the many video serving services? some of which are
>> >> free even :)
>> >> (that part's not a troll, a real question, even!)
>> >> -chris
>> >
>> >
>> > The website work hasn't yet begun, so that is certainly still on the
>> table.  If you would like to volunteer some of your time...
>>
>> I'm sure we could arrange some process to ingest videos to some form
>> of video-hosting-website... a videotubes site let's say.
>>
>> who should I chat with?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: IPTV and ASM

[Marshall Eubanks]

Dear Mike;

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Mike McBride  wrote:
> Anyone using ASM (versus SSM) for IPTV? If so why?
>

>From what I understand, the answer is likely to be "yes" and the
reason is likely to be "deployed equipment only
supports IGMP v2."

Regards
Marshall

> thanks,
> mike
>

Re: what if...?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Eduardo A. Suárez
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> what if evil guys hack my mom ISP DNS servers and use RPZ to redirect
> traffic from mom_bank.com to evil.com?
>
> How can she detect this?

Does your Mom call you up every time she gets a dialog box complaining
about an invalid certificate ?

If she has been conditioned just to click "OK" when that happens, then
she probably can't.

Regards
Marshall

>
> Eduardo.-
>
> --
> Eduardo A. Suarez
> Facultad de Ciencias Astronómicas y Geofísicas - UNLP
> FCAG: (0221)-4236593 int. 172/Cel: (0221)-15-4557542/Casa: (0221)-4526589
>
>
> 
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>

Range using single-mode SFPs across multi-mode fiber - was Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 47, Issue 56

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:34 PM, oliver rothschild
 wrote:
> This is my first e-mail to the list and I hope it is not entirely

As a suggestion, could you please in the future not use a subject such as

"Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 47, Issue 56" for posts. It is MUCH better to
use a topical subject line
(see my suggestion above); that helps people who filter their mail
keep track of threads and topics.

Regards
Marshall


> inappropriate. We are attempting to use Juniper single-mode SFPs (LX
> variety) across multi-mode fiber. Standard listed distance is always
> for SFPs using the appropriate type of fiber. Does anyone out there
> know how much distance we are likely to get? Thanks for your help in
> advance.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM,   wrote:
>> Send NANOG mailing list submissions to
>>        nanog@nanog.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>        nanog-requ...@nanog.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>        nanog-ow...@nanog.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against
>>      censorship (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
>>   2. RE: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against
>>      censorship (O'Reirdan, Michael)
>>   3. Recognized Address Transfer Facilitators (was: Your Christmas
>>      Bonus Has Arrived) (John Curran)
>>   4. Re: Recognized Address Transfer Facilitators (was: Your
>>      Christmas Bonus Has Arrived) (Leigh Porter)
>>   5. Re: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against
>>      censorship (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
>>   6. Re: Your Christmas Bonus Has Arrived
>>      (bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com)
>>   7. Re: Recognized Address Transfer Facilitators (was: Your
>>      Christmas Bonus Has Arrived) (Justin M. Streiner)
>>   8. Re: Recognized Address Transfer Facilitators (was: Your
>>      Christmas Bonus Has Arrived) (Mark Tinka)
>>   9. Multiple ISP Load Balancing (Holmes,David A)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:42:51 +0530
>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian 
>> To: Hal Murray 
>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against
>>        censorship
>> Message-ID:
>>        
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I would strongly suggest that operators work with their legal
>> departments to endorse this paper by Crocker and others.
>>
>> If other ISP organizations (such as say MAAWG) come out with
>> something, other operators could sign on to that as well.
>>
>> The EFF petition has way too much propaganda and far less content than
>> would be entirely productive in a policy discussion.
>>
>> --srs
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Security and Other Technical Concerns Raised by the
>>> ? ?DNS Filtering Requirements in the PROTECT IP Bill
>>> ?Authors:
>>> ? ?Steve Crocker, Shinkuro, Inc.
>>> ? ?David Dagon, Georgia Tech
>>> ? ?Dan Kaminsky, DKH
>>> ? ?Danny McPherson, Verisign, Inc.
>>> ? ?Paul Vixie, Internet Systems Consortium
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.li...@gmail.com)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:36:59 +
>> From: "O'Reirdan, Michael" 
>> To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Hal Murray
>>        
>> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" 
>> Subject: RE: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against
>>        censorship
>> Message-ID:
>>        
>> 
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> MAAWG has written voicing its concerns on SOPA and PIPA.
>>
>> http://www.maawg.org/sites/maawg/files/news/MAAWG_US_Congress_S968-HR3261_Comments_2011-12.pdf
>>
>> Mike
>> 
>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [ops.li...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 14 December 2011 05:12
>> To: Hal Murray
>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: EFF call for signatures from Internet engineers against 
>> censorship
>>
>> I would strongly suggest that operators work with their legal
>> departments to endorse this paper by Crocker and others.
>>
>> If other ISP organizations (such as say MAAWG) come out with
>> something, other operators could sign on to that as well.
>>
>> The EFF petition has way too much propaganda and far less content than
>> would be entirely productive in a policy discussion.
>>
>> --srs
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Security and Other Technical Concerns Raised by the
>>>    DNS Filtering Requirements in the PROTECT IP Bill
>>>  Authors:
>>>    Steve Crocker, Shinkuro, Inc.
>>>    David Dagon, Georgia Tech
>>>    Dan Kaminsky, DKH
>>>    Danny McPherson, Verisign, Inc.
>>>    Paul Vixie, Internet

Re: Strongest Solar Tsunami in Years to Hit Earth Today

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Hank Nussbacher wrote:

> http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/159964/20110609/nasa-solar-flare-tsunami-earth-sun-radio-satellite-interference-aurora-displays-coronal-mass-ejectio.htm
> 
> -Hank
> 
> 

If you are interested in the actual event, watch the AIA video of the explosion 
(flare) itself in the
highest bandwidth you can tolerate :

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/index.html/

Regards
Marshall

Re: Cox outage in Alexandria, Va.

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jun 7, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:

> One of my employees is reporting that Cox told her a backhoe "cut a main 
> line" somewhere in the Alexandria, Virginia area earlier this morning.  More 
> than likely a fiber cut I'd imagine.  Apparently it's affecting about 50,000 
> residential customers and has been down since 5 a.m.
> 
> Anyone have more info?
> 
> ---
> Andy Ringsmuth
> (402) 304-0083
> andyr...@inebraska.com
> 
> 
> 

Absolutely no problems on my home circuit in Clifton, Virginia (20124, 25 miles 
due West of Alexandria). Last time I checked I was connected to Head End 8.

Regards
Marshall 

Re: skype

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jun 7, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Randy Bush wrote:

> http://heartbeat.skype.com/
> 
> skype has been microsofted already.  "small number of users" my ass.
> probably 7/8 of the users i would see at this time are not on.

On this topic, it has also been penetrated, by the
Egyptian  “Electronic Penetration Department," no less :

http://www.mideastnewswire.com/skype-rebellion-hightech-listening

Regards
Marshall


> 
> randy
> 
> 

$ 90 million fine for cutting Internet services

[Marshall Eubanks]

I remember some discussion of this outage on NANOG, and on what it was costing 
Egypt. Well, here is
an estimate - almost $ 20 million USD / day (which actually sounds low to me). 

Regards
Marshall


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/05/201152811555458677.html

An Egyptian court has fined ousted president Hosni Mubarak and former officials 
more than $90m for cutting off access to internet and mobile phone services 
during the country's massive protests in January.

A court source told the Reuters news agency on Saturday that Mubarak's fine is 
$34m, former interior minister Habib al-Adly will owe $53m, and former prime 
minister Ahmed Nazif has a fine of $7m.

The fine is to be paid from personal assets...

Re: Had an idea - looking for a math buff to tell me if it's possible?with today's technology.

[Marshall Eubanks]

On May 20, 2011, at 5:16 PM, Sudeep Khuraijam wrote:

> I could not help but admire nanog in its full form ;)  and I cannot resist 
> anymore.  Allow me to suggest the EPR paradox machine.
> 
> The cost of regenerating  unpredictable information is inefficient  by orders 
> of magnitude, but wait... isn't it what we are trying to solve?
> 
> On May 20, 2011, at 1:32 PM, Paul Timmins wrote:
> 
> On 05/20/2011 03:34 PM, Paul Graydon wrote:
> On 05/20/2011 08:53 AM, Brett Frankenberger wrote:
> Even if those problems were solved, you'd need (on average) just as
> many bits to represent which digit of pi to start with as you'd need to
> represent the original message.
> 
>-- Brett
> Not quite sure I follow that. "Start at position xyz, carry on for
> 1 bits" shouldn't be as long as telling it all 1 bits?

Yes, it will be as long or longer (on average), because you have to represent 
position XYZ in some fashion, 
and send that representation to the decoder, and it can easily be longer than 
the original message. Suppose that it takes 20,000 bits to
represent XYZ. How have you saved bits ? Having XYZ be longer than the original 
message is just as likely as having it be shorter. 

The same problem applies to the original suggestion. You will not (on average) 
save bits. 

If typical messages are not totally random, you can compress by considering the 
nature of that non-randomness, and tailoring your compression accordingly. 
These schemes are using random strings / hashes 


   for their compression, and thus will (on average) not 
save
bits even if a message is highly non-random.

Regards
Marshall

> 
> Currently we have a compression algorithm for doing this already in
> widespread use. We create a list of numbers ranging from 1 to 255 and
> then provide an index into that array. We save space by assuming it's a
> single character.
> 
> 
> 
> Sudeep Khuraijam | Netops | liveops | Office 408 8442511 | Mobile 408 666 9987
> skhurai...@liveops.com | aim: skhuraijam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Yahoo and IPv6

[Marshall Eubanks]

On May 14, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:

> Matthew Kaufman  writes:
> 
>>> My Desktop is not able to make any IPv4 socket connections anymore.  I get
>>> "Protocol not supported". So there are IPv6-only users, already bitten by
>>> no .  So that's -1 from me.
>> 
>> Sounds to me like you're not on The Internet any more.
> 
> in  we see:
> 
> (*2)Q: But what IS the Internet?
>A: "It's the largest equivalence class in the reflexive, transitive,
>symmetric, closure of the relationship 'can be reached by an IP
>packet from'". Seth Breidbart
> 
> by which definition, matthew's observation would be correct.  folks who want
> to run V6 only and still be "on the internet" will need proxies for a long
> while.  folks who want to run V6 only *today* and not have any proxies *today*
> are sort of on their own -- the industry will not cater to market non-forces.

I think that the real question is, when will people who are running IPv4 only 
not be on the Internet by this
definition ?

Regards
Marshall


> -- 
> Paul Vixie
> KI6YSY
> 
> 

Re: 23,000 IP addresses

[Marshall Eubanks]

On May 10, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:

> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>> On 5/10/11 9:07 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>> A good reason why every ISP should have a published civil subpoena
>> compliance fee.
>> 23,000 * $150 each should only cost them $3.45M to get the information.
>> Seems like that would take the profit out pretty quickly.
> 
> +1.
> But don't the fees actually have to be reasonable?

> 
> If you say your fee is  $150 per IP address,  I think they might bring
> it to the judge
> and claim the ISP is attempting to avoid subpoena compliance by charging an
> unreasonable fee.
> 
> They can point to all the competitors charging $40 per IP.
> 

I am not a lawyer, and you would be a fool to use NANOG for legal advice, but 
if I were to charge something for this, I would want
to be able to justify the charge in front of a judge, regardless of what anyone 
else charges. In other words, something like "we find it typically takes $ 100 
to get the backups out of storage, 15 minutes @ $X per minute for a tech to 
find the right backup disk and 10 minutes at $Y per minute for a network 
engineer to review the dump." 

Regards
Marshall 



> This would be very interesting with IPv6 though,  and customers assigned /56s.
> 
> "You want all the records for every IP in this /56,  really?"
> 
> 
> --
> -JH
> 
> 

Re: 23,000 IP addresses

[Marshall Eubanks]

On May 10, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Roland Perry wrote:

> In article , chip 
>  writes
> 
>> Interesting, especially after this:
>> 
>> http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-case-judge-says-110503/
> 
> It depends whether you are suing the subscriber or the downloader (maybe both 
> can be liable in some cases). Also whether the subscriber was running an open 
> Wifi (normally not recommended), which is a matter of evidential fact to be 
> explored in each particular case.
> 

And, perhaps most critically, which judge you come before. (It will take a 
while, and maybe a visit to the Supreme Court, before you can
expect legal consistency here.) 

Note also that these generally do not go to trial.

Regards
Marshall 


>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Marshall Eubanks  
>> wrote:
>>> A Federal Judge has decided to let the "U.S. Copyright Group" subpoena ISPs 
>>> over 23,000 alleged downloads of some
>>> Sylvester Stallone movie I have never heard of; subpoenas are expected to 
>>> go out this week.
>>> 
>>> I thought that there might be some interest in the list of these addresses :
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/05/expendibleipaddresses.pdf
>>> 
>>> If you have IP addresses on this list, expect to receive papers shortly.
>>> 
>>> Here is more of the backstory :
>>> 
>>> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/biggest-bittorrent-case/
>>> 
>>> This is turning into quite a legal racket (get order $ 3000 for sending a 
>>> threatening letter); I expect to see a lot
>>> more of this until some sense returns to the legal system.
> 
> Attempts a bit like this have come unstuck in the UK. Search for "Davenport 
> Lyons" and "ACS Law"
> -- 
> Roland Perry
> 
> 

23,000 IP addresses

[Marshall Eubanks]

A Federal Judge has decided to let the "U.S. Copyright Group" subpoena ISPs 
over 23,000 alleged downloads of some
Sylvester Stallone movie I have never heard of; subpoenas are expected to go 
out this week. 

I thought that there might be some interest in the list of these addresses :

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/05/expendibleipaddresses.pdf

If you have IP addresses on this list, expect to receive papers shortly. 

Here is more of the backstory :

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/biggest-bittorrent-case/

This is turning into quite a legal racket (get order $ 3000 for sending a 
threatening letter); I expect to see a lot
more of this until some sense returns to the legal system. 

Regards
Marshall 

Re: 365x24x7

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:50 PM, George Herbert wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Marshall Eubanks  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:
>> 
>>> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could 
>>> cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
>>> 
>>> I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.
>>> 
>> 
>> When I worked with NASA and the Navy on remote locations that needed full 
>> time staffing, the rule of thumb was
>> 5 people and 4 shifts was the absolute minimum, and the people had to be 
>> motivated enough to pull 12 hour shifts on a regular basis (i.e., this
>> was very bare bones). The 4th shift was needed during the weekends.
>> 
>> Anything less, and you would have uncovered periods if, say, 2 people got 
>> sick simultaneously.
> 
> I believe that for ongoing long term operations, NASA and DOD
> standards are 6 shifts worth of people, however you juggle the
> particular shift lengths / schedules.  I.e., NORAD, NASA ISS / Moon
> mission mission control, etc.
> 
> You can do it with 5, but people need time to get sick, take
> vacations, go to training, etc.

It can be done with 5, with some stretch. There are gotcha's, and you need to 
run for a while to make sure that you have accounted for them.  For example, 
with a barebones 5 person staffing there would never be more than 2 people on 
site at a time, except briefly during shift changes. If equipment maintenance + 
normal operation requires 3 people, say 2 manhandling gear and one watching 
operations, you can't do it in normal operations. At one site I worked with, 
that got to be bad enough that they hired an extra person specifically to 
address that hole in the schedule. (That site was remote enough that they 
couldn't get a temp to come in and fill the gap.)

The Apollo program ran their ground stations with 6 shifts, fully staffed on 
all 6. But, they had lots of money.

Regards
Marshall 

> 
> 
> -- 
> -george william herbert
> george.herb...@gmail.com
> 

Re: 365x24x7 (sleep patterns)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Mark Green wrote:

> 
> Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months...  
> Sleep patterns take time to adjust.  Jumping between day and night shifts 
> will burn out even the most motivated employee.  
> 

What we found was that we would find people who wanted to be on the night 
shift, and would NOT like to be changed, at all. Some people like night
work, or have family situations where it is ideal for them.

Regards
Marshall 

> Mark Green
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: nanog-requ...@nanog.org
>> Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 39, Issue 46
>> To: nanog@nanog.org
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:52:19 +
>> 
>> Send NANOG mailing list submissions to
>>  nanog@nanog.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  nanog-requ...@nanog.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  nanog-ow...@nanog.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
>>   2. Re: New hijacks, and lots of them  (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   3. Re: 365x24x7 (Peter Hicks)
>>   4. Re: 365x24x7 (Charles Mills)
>>   5. RE: 365x24x7 (Greg Moore)
>>   6. Re: 365x24x7 (Steve Clark)
>>   7. Re: 365x24x7 (Marshall Eubanks)
>>   8. Re: 365x24x7 (Alex Brooks)
>>   9. RE: 365x24x7 (Sanders, Randall K)
>>  10. Re: 365x24x7 (Tony Finch)
>>  11. Re: 365x24x7 (harbor235)
>>  12. Re: 365x24x7 (Paul Graydon)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:14:05 -0400
>> From: harbor235 
>> Subject: 365x24x7
>> To: NANOG list 
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
>> need
>> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
>> required
>> 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>> 
>> thoughts, experience?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:17:06 -0700
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" 
>> Subject: Re: New hijacks, and lots of them 
>> To: nanog@nanog.org
>> Message-ID: <2971.1302873...@tristatelogic.com>
>> 
>> 
>> In message <5824.1302780...@tristatelogic.com>, I wrote:
>> 
>>>  http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
>>>  http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>> 
>> My apologies to anyone and everyone who tried to get at these files.
>> It seems that my provider may perhaps have recently developed some
>> rather odd ideas about packet filtering for static broadband lines.
>> Until I can get the problem worked out, the following alternative URLs
>> ought to do instead:
>> 
>>   ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
>>   ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:17:48 +0100
>> From: Peter Hicks 
>> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
>> To: harbor235 
>> Cc: NANOG list 
>> Message-ID: <066f653e-c0f8-4026-9fe0-3a8899378...@poggs.co.uk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> 
>> On 15 Apr 2011, at 14:14, harbor235 wrote:
>> 
>>> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
>>> need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to 
>>> cover the
>>> required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>> 
>> 
>> Although more geared up for on-call, 
>> http://blog.hinterlands.org/2010/07/running-an-oncall-rota/ is a very useful 
>> resource.
>> 
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:25:02 -0400
>> From: Charles Mills 
>> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
>> To: harbor235 , NANOG list 
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> I've had it done in places wher

Re: 365x24x7

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:

> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could 
> cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
> 
> I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.  
>  
> 

When I worked with NASA and the Navy on remote locations that needed full time 
staffing, the rule of thumb was
5 people and 4 shifts was the absolute minimum, and the people had to be 
motivated enough to pull 12 hour shifts on a regular basis (i.e., this
was very bare bones). The 4th shift was needed during the weekends. 

Anything less, and you would have uncovered periods if, say, 2 people got sick 
simultaneously.

Regards
Marshall


> -Original Message-
> From: harbor235
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:14 AM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: 365x24x7
> 
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
> 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> 
> thoughts, experience?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 

Re: internet probe can track you within 690 m

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Apr 11, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote:

> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20336-internet-probe-can-track-you-down-to-within-690-metres.html
> "The new method zooms in through three stages to locate a target computer. 
> The first stage measures the time it takes to send a data packet to the 
> target and converts it into a distance – a common geolocation technique that 
> narrows the target's possible location to a radius of around 200 kilometres.
> (..)
> Finally, they repeat the landmark search at this more fine-grained level: 
> comparing delay times once more, they establish which landmark server is 
> closest to the target. The result can never be entirely accurate, but it's 
> much better than trying to determine a location by converting the initial 
> delay into a distance or the next best IP-based method. On average their 
> method gets to within 690 metres of the target and can be as close as 100 
> metres – good enough to identify the target computer's location to within a 
> few streets."
> 
> It seems to me to be a rather flaky way of finding out your estimated 
> location. But I guess it could be helpful when the objective is just to 
> create some global database of demographics for marketing and privacy 
> invasion purposes, where specifics of an individual's exact location don't 
> really matter.

The idea is to have finer and finer grained locations based on RTTs and a dense 
mesh of "landmark routers." 
Of course, if you were using a tunnel or proxy that took N msec of delay, the 
best they could say is that you were N msec from the tunnel endpoint. 

It would also be easy to institute something like the old GPS selective 
availability, with a software tunnel randomly adding a variable 
delay (say, varying by up to 50 msec every 100 seconds).

Regards
Marshall

> 
> Besides the latter can always be subpoenaed. ;-)
> 
> One more reason to use VPN and other such techniques to hide your location.
> 
> Greetings,
> Jeroen
> 
> -- 
> http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html
> 
> 

Re: ICANN approves .XXX red-light district for the Internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 29, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Tony Finch wrote:

> George Bonser  wrote:
>> 
>> What bothers me is that most companies are now going to be forced to
>> purchase .xxx domains simply to keep someone else from buying it and
>> sullying the company's image.
> 
> Who is forcing them?

Their lawyers.

Regards
Marshall


> 
> Tony.
> -- 
> f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
> Shannon: Southerly, veering westerly at times, 4 or 5, increasing 6 or 7 at
> times. Moderate or rough. Rain or showers, fog patches. Good, occasionally
> very poor.
> 
> 

Re: New tsunami advisory warning - Japan

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 28, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> 
> On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Gavin Pearce wrote:
> 
>>> You guys forget a lot of folks on the list are working on cabling ships and 
>>> off shore platforms, its not all about what happens on shore in this 
>>> industry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Valid point ... however in deep ocean, these things are pretty 
>> imperceptible. The effect on ships on the surface are nominal, and off shore 
>> platforms are (generally) built with these things in mind: 
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324535/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/
>> 
> 
> Here is a video of the recent Japanese tsunami from a JCG ship in the the 
> open ocean. The waves (@ ~4:20 and 6:40 into the video) caused them no 
> trouble, but they were certainly not imperceptible. 
> 

With the video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XSBrrueVoQ&feature=player_embedded#at=19

Marshall


> Regards
> Marshall
> 
>> 
>> 
>> At the other extreme, Lituya Bay is a good example of a Mega Tsunami (1,720 
>> feet):
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lituya_Bay_megatsunami
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: New tsunami advisory warning - Japan

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Gavin Pearce wrote:

>> You guys forget a lot of folks on the list are working on cabling ships and 
>> off shore platforms, its not all about what happens on shore in this 
>> industry.
> 
> 
> 
> Valid point ... however in deep ocean, these things are pretty imperceptible. 
> The effect on ships on the surface are nominal, and off shore platforms are 
> (generally) built with these things in mind: 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324535/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/
> 

Here is a video of the recent Japanese tsunami from a JCG ship in the the open 
ocean. The waves (@ ~4:20 and 6:40 into the video) caused them no trouble, but 
they were certainly not imperceptible. 

Regards
Marshall

> 
> 
> At the other extreme, Lituya Bay is a good example of a Mega Tsunami (1,720 
> feet):
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lituya_Bay_megatsunami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: ICANN approves .XXX red-light district for the Internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 26, 2011, at 5:28 PM, George Bonser wrote:

>> But do you really believe playboy are going to give up playboy.com?  
> 
> They aren't going to give up Playboy.com but they are probably going to
> have to purchase playboy.xxx anyway.
> 
> What bothers me is that most companies are now going to be forced to
> purchase .xxx domains simply to keep someone else from buying it and
> sullying the company's image.  So it is an instant cash windfall for the
> domain registrars.  
> 
> There was no reason why we needed this.  
> 

But that is an excellent reason why someone would want it.

I was involved in the IETF NEWDOM WG way back in ~1996 and heard all of these 
arguments then. IMHO this was snake oil 15 years ago, and it is even
more snake oil now. 

Regards
Marshall

> 
> 
> 

Re: ICANN approves .XXX red-light district for the Internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 26, 2011, at 6:31 PM, John Levine wrote:

>> Suppose, just for the sake of the argument, that a statute or
>> precedent came about to the effect that a community which permits
>> access to .xxx sites (by not censoring the DNS) implicitly accepts
>> "that kind of thing" isn't obscenity under local law.
> 
> If we're doing counterfactuals, let's suppose that everyone in the
> world thinks that .XXX is a great idea, and ICANN runs itself
> efficiently on a budget of $1M/yr.
> 

For some reason the aerodynamics of pigs comes to mind here. Having pigs fly is 
just about as likely as having ambitious Southern prosecutors 
give up the ability to bring meaningless, but newsworthy, porn prosecutions, 
ICANN's new TLD or no. 

Regards
Marshall


> R's,
> John
> 
> 

Re: Nortel, in bankruptcy, sells IPv4 address block for $7.5 million

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 24, 2011, at 11:15 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Matthew Kaufman  wrote:
>> On 3/24/2011 7:59 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
>>> Because that's what IP addresses are.  Totally worthless unless community
>>> participants voluntarily route traffic for those IPs to the assignee.
> 
>> Would de-peer with Microsoft (or turn down a transit contract from them)
>> just because they wanted to announce some Nortel address space?
> 
> Microsoft would likely be able to find someone who would not turn them
> down for transit.
> 
>> Would ARIN really erase the Nortel entry and move these addresses to the
>> free pool if Microsoft doesn't play along with one of the transfer policies?
> 
> Unknown.I would expect ARIN to erase entries, if the situation exists
> where RIR policy requires that,  or to refrain from effecting the
> transfer in the DB,  unless that transfer requested is valid under policy and
> and the request is made correctly with all normal requirements met.
> 
>> Would you announce addresses someone had just obtained from ARIN that were
>> already being announced by Microsoft?
> 
> Most certainly, some networks would,  if assigned space in that block,
> probably without noticing Microsoft's announcement.
> 

It that the right question ? I am sure some networks would also continue to use 
Microsoft's announcements in this scenario. So, it would be a mess. 

So, I think that the right question is something more like : 

If ARIN reassigned the space, and Microsoft continued to announce it anyway, 
would either announcing entity be have enough of a critical mass
that the conflict wouldn't matter to it  ? 

I would submit that any address assignments with continual major operational 
issues arising from assignment conflicts would not be very attractive.  

I also don't think that that would be good for the Internet. 

Regards
Marshall 
  

> --
> -JH
> 
> 

Rush to Fix Quake-Damaged Undersea Cables

[Marshall Eubanks]

In this WSJ article

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576199952421569210.html

or

http://on.wsj.com/gaPk8V 

This caught my eye :

About half of the existing cables running across the Pacific are damaged ...

It that realistic ? That seems like much more damage than anything I have heard 
or seen.

Regards
Marshall 

Re: so big earthquake in JP

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 11, 2011, at 6:34 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:

> 
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Belin wrote:
>> 
>>> Are we aware of how much the infrastructure has been damaged yet? Are 
>>> aftershocks still going?
>> 
>> Subway & bus lines are still down.  Fire at the nuke plant has been put out, 
>> no radiation detected, but they still evacuated a couple thousand residents 
>> because the backup generator failed & the water pump is not pumping.
>> 
> I hear that there is now rising radiation levels outside the plant and US is 
> flying in some dampers
> in hopes to resolve the situation.

Here is what the IAEA has to say about the situation

http://www.iaea.org/press/?p=1133

Japanese officials have also reported that pressure is increasing inside the 
Unit 1 reactor’s containment, and the officials have decided to vent the 
containment to lower the pressure.  The controlled release will be filtered to 
retain radiation within the containment.

TEPCO has a lot more detail

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031203-e.html

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031209-e.html

Regards
Marshall




> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> 

Re: so big earthquake in JP

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 11, 2011, at 9:08 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> 
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Belin wrote:
> 
>> Are we aware of how much the infrastructure has been damaged yet? Are 
>> aftershocks still going?
> 
> 
> The tsunami was 1/2 meter in Kauai 
> 
> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/?region=1&id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222&obs

This live feed from Honolulu indicates that Hawaii damage is minor so far. The 
Tsunami is striking Hilo right now, and the Waikiki sea wall is under water.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=176904&nav=menu55_1_1

Regards
Marshall

> 
> ETA's for the West Coast are around 7:00 AM PST
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/estimated-tsunami-arrival-times-for-canadas-west-coast/article1938243/
> 
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> Daniel Belin
>> 
>> On Mar 11, 2011, at 3:50 AM, Jeroen van Aart  wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael Painter wrote:
>>>> Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote:
>>>>> Pacific tsunami warning centre has confirmed a deep ocean tsunami. Three 
>>>>> dart bouys have detected > 2 ft wave fronts. Warnings
>>>>> up for entire pacific basin except for Alaska/canada/us west coast.
> 
> Official warming
> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222
> 
> The tsunami was 1.3 meters at Midway Is., 1/2 meter at Kauai 
> 
> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/?region=1&id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222&obs
> 
> Here is a live feed - it is striking Waikiki (with no real damage IFAICT, but 
> it is dark) right now 
> http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=176904&nav=menu55_1_1
> 
> ETA's for the West Coast are around 7:00 AM PST
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/estimated-tsunami-arrival-times-for-canadas-west-coast/article1938243/
> 
> Regards
> Marshall
> 
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris
>>>> Tsunami sirens just went off on Maui.
>>> 
>>> You may get information by going to forecast.weather.gov and searching for 
>>> a location. i.e.:
>>> 
>>> http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Coos+Bay&state=OR&site=MFR&textField1=43.3667&textField2=-124.217&e=0
>>> 
>>> Then click the Tsunami Watch link:
>>> http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=ORZ021&warncounty=ORC011&firewxzone=ORZ615&local_place1=Coos+Bay+OR&product1=Tsunami+Watch
>>> 
>>> Also see:
>>> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.073000
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: so big earthquake in JP

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 11, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Belin wrote:

> Are we aware of how much the infrastructure has been damaged yet? Are 
> aftershocks still going?


The tsunami was 1/2 meter in Kauai 

http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/?region=1&id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222&obs

ETA's for the West Coast are around 7:00 AM PST

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/estimated-tsunami-arrival-times-for-canadas-west-coast/article1938243/

> 
> ---
> 
> Daniel Belin
> 
> On Mar 11, 2011, at 3:50 AM, Jeroen van Aart  wrote:
> 
>> Michael Painter wrote:
>>> Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote:
 Pacific tsunami warning centre has confirmed a deep ocean tsunami. Three 
 dart bouys have detected > 2 ft wave fronts. Warnings
 up for entire pacific basin except for Alaska/canada/us west coast.

Official warming
http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222

The tsunami was 1.3 meters at Midway Is., 1/2 meter at Kauai 

http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/?region=1&id=pacific.2011.03.11.133222&obs

Here is a live feed - it is striking Waikiki (with no real damage IFAICT, but 
it is dark) right now 
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=176904&nav=menu55_1_1

ETA's for the West Coast are around 7:00 AM PST

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/estimated-tsunami-arrival-times-for-canadas-west-coast/article1938243/

Regards
Marshall


 
 Chris
>>> Tsunami sirens just went off on Maui.
>> 
>> You may get information by going to forecast.weather.gov and searching for a 
>> location. i.e.:
>> 
>> http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Coos+Bay&state=OR&site=MFR&textField1=43.3667&textField2=-124.217&e=0
>> 
>> Then click the Tsunami Watch link:
>> http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=ORZ021&warncounty=ORC011&firewxzone=ORZ615&local_place1=Coos+Bay+OR&product1=Tsunami+Watch
>> 
>> Also see:
>> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.073000
>> 
>> -- 
>> http://goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
>> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Internet to Libya ?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:20 PM, Craig Labovitz wrote:

> 
> 
> http://monkey.org/~labovit/images/march4_libya.pdf

I also saw this 

http://www.renesys.com/blog/

Do you know if this is all of Libya (including the "liberated" East, e.g., 
Cyrenaica), or just Tripolitania (the part under gov. control) ?

I believe that the cable landing is in Tripoli, so one cut could also isolate 
the rebel regions, unless there is an overland link to Egypt. 

Regards
Marshall

> 
> - Craig
> 
> On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:42 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone have evidence that the Internet is up to Libya today ?
>> 
>> The Google "transparency report" is showing flatlines after about mid-day 
>> yesterday.
>> 
>> http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/?r=LY&l=WEBSEARCH&csd=1298650426153&ced=1299255226153
>> 
>> Regards
>> Marshall
> 
> 
> 

Internet to Libya ?

[Marshall Eubanks]

Does anyone have evidence that the Internet is up to Libya today ?

The Google "transparency report" is showing flatlines after about mid-day 
yesterday.

http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/?r=LY&l=WEBSEARCH&csd=1298650426153&ced=1299255226153

Regards
Marshall

Re: Christchurch New Zealand

[Marshall Eubanks]

Here is an animated seismic map 

http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/today

Marshall

On Feb 21, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Mark Foster wrote:

> Folks on Twitter should search for hashtag #eqnz.
> 
> Major news sites in NZ:
> 
> www.stuff.co.nz
> www.nzherald.co.nz
> www.tvnz.co.nz
> www.3news.co.nz
> 
> Plenty of Vids, Stills and some Streaming available.
> 
> Can confirm the reports of multiple casualties.  TV News is live broadcasting 
> reports of many folks trapped within buildings, largely because of things 
> like stairwells collapsing, etc. A few buildings have been hit pretty hard, 
> with some notable collapses, damage to vehicles, etc.
> 
> The 111 network (911 equiv) is experiencing problems in the South Island, 
> folks are being asked to stay the phones (etc) except for genuine emergencies.
> 
> Urban Search and Rescue teams in NZ are based in Christchurch, Palmerston 
> North and Auckland. I gather all three teams are stood-to, and an offer from 
> Australia for additional USAR resource has been accepted.  CD Emergency has 
> been declared and the Military are already getting involved.
> 
> Christchurch experienced a major quake (magnitude 7.2) in September last 
> year, which received a lot of press as its effects were widespread and severe 
> - but there was little loss of life.  This quake, magnitute 6.3, hit much 
> closer to the CBD and during a business day, so the casualty count is much 
> higher.  Being a more shallow quake, much closer to town, but also lesser in 
> magnitude, my uneducated view based on media coverage is that the effects are 
> not as widespread, but where they're felt, are very significant.
> 
> Mark.
> (in Auckland, some 1000 km away...)
> 
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Daniel Richards wrote:
> 
>> There aren't any major international cables to the south island. The big one 
>> is the southern Cross cable that lands on either side of Auckland, which is 
>> the north of the North Island, which is operating normally.
>> 
>> KAREN (The Kiwi Advanced Research Network) core in the south island is still 
>> operating, but most of the member sites in Christchurch are down: 
>> http://karen.net.nz/news-earthquake-network-update/
>> 
>> News is reporting deaths now, sadly.
>> 
>> On 22/02/11 16:04, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>> There has been a bad Earthquake in Christchurch New Zealand with reports of
>>> fatalities.
>>> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150099324847752&set=a.125583977751.103665.119452527751&theater
>>> Telecom New Zealand reports "Heavy damage" to their Christchurch building, 
>>> but no deaths there.
>>> Is there any report of issues with the undersea cables to / from the South 
>>> Island ?
>>> Regards
>>> Marshall
>>> P.S. On a more personal note,
>>> Google has a people finder up @
>>> http://christchurch-2011.person-finder.appspot.com/
>>> There is a DFAT # - 1300 555 135 - for people outside of NZ to call.
>>> Telecom New Zealand has asked people to stay off of the wireless network 
>>> except for true emergencies.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Christchurch New Zealand

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 21, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Mark Foster wrote:

> Folks on Twitter should search for hashtag #eqnz.
> 
> Major news sites in NZ:
> 
> www.stuff.co.nz
> www.nzherald.co.nz
> www.tvnz.co.nz
> www.3news.co.nz
> 
> Plenty of Vids, Stills and some Streaming available.
> 
> Can confirm the reports of multiple casualties.  TV News is live broadcasting 
> reports of many folks trapped within buildings, largely because of things 
> like stairwells collapsing, etc. A few buildings have been hit pretty hard, 
> with some notable collapses, damage to vehicles, etc.
> 
> The 111 network (911 equiv) is experiencing problems in the South Island, 
> folks are being asked to stay the phones (etc) except for genuine emergencies.
> 
> Urban Search and Rescue teams in NZ are based in Christchurch, Palmerston 
> North and Auckland. I gather all three teams are stood-to, and an offer from 
> Australia for additional USAR resource has been accepted.  CD Emergency has 
> been declared and the Military are already getting involved.
> 
> Christchurch experienced a major quake (magnitude 7.2) in September last 
> year, which received a lot of press as its effects were widespread and severe 
> - but there was little loss of life.  This quake, magnitute 6.3, hit much 
> closer to the CBD and during a business day, so the casualty count is much 
> higher.  Being a more shallow quake, much closer to town, but also lesser in 
> magnitude, my uneducated view based on media coverage is that the effects are 
> not as widespread, but where they're felt, are very significant.

The 2010 quake was 10 km deep, which is not that deep. It was 40 km away from 
Christchurch, however. This quake's epicenter is at Lyttelton, which is 
apparently only 12 km away, and so it isn't too surprising the damage is 
heaver. (That depends a lot on the property of the bedrock and sediments, and 
whether there is any seismic wave reflection and focusing going on.)

Regards
Marshall

> 
> Mark.
> (in Auckland, some 1000 km away...)
> 
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Daniel Richards wrote:
> 
>> There aren't any major international cables to the south island. The big one 
>> is the southern Cross cable that lands on either side of Auckland, which is 
>> the north of the North Island, which is operating normally.
>> 
>> KAREN (The Kiwi Advanced Research Network) core in the south island is still 
>> operating, but most of the member sites in Christchurch are down: 
>> http://karen.net.nz/news-earthquake-network-update/
>> 
>> News is reporting deaths now, sadly.
>> 
>> On 22/02/11 16:04, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>> There has been a bad Earthquake in Christchurch New Zealand with reports of
>>> fatalities.
>>> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150099324847752&set=a.125583977751.103665.119452527751&theater
>>> Telecom New Zealand reports "Heavy damage" to their Christchurch building, 
>>> but no deaths there.
>>> Is there any report of issues with the undersea cables to / from the South 
>>> Island ?
>>> Regards
>>> Marshall
>>> P.S. On a more personal note,
>>> Google has a people finder up @
>>> http://christchurch-2011.person-finder.appspot.com/
>>> There is a DFAT # - 1300 555 135 - for people outside of NZ to call.
>>> Telecom New Zealand has asked people to stay off of the wireless network 
>>> except for true emergencies.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Christchurch New Zealand

[Marshall Eubanks]

There has been a bad Earthquake in Christchurch New Zealand with reports of 
fatalities. 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150099324847752&set=a.125583977751.103665.119452527751&theater

Telecom New Zealand reports "Heavy damage" to their Christchurch building, but 
no deaths there.

Is there any report of issues with the undersea cables to / from the South 
Island ? 

Regards
Marshall

P.S. On a more personal note, 
Google has a people finder up @

http://christchurch-2011.person-finder.appspot.com/

There is a DFAT # - 1300 555 135 - for people outside of NZ to call.

Telecom New Zealand has asked people to stay off of the wireless network except 
for true emergencies. 

Re: NYTimes: Egypt Leaders Found ‘Off’ Switch for Internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 16, 2011, at 12:15 AM, Joly MacFie wrote:

> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/technology/16internet.html
> 
> There has been intense debate both inside and outside Egypt on whether the
>> cutoff at 26 Ramses Street was accomplished by surgically tampering with the
>> software mechanism that defines how networks at the core of the Internet
>> communicate with one another, or by a blunt approach: simply cutting off the
>> power to the router computers that connect Egypt to the outside world.
> 
> 

I do remember some intense debate, here and elsewhere, but I somehow don't 
remember those as being the primary debate parameters. 

Regards
Marshall


> -- 
> ---
> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
> http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
>  VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
> ---
> 

Re: US Warships jamming Lebanon Internet

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 12, 2011, at 5:55 PM, de...@visp.net.lb wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:39:59 -1000, Michael Painter wrote:
>> de...@visp.net.lb wrote:
>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
 On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
> It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz.
> There is
> almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5
> degree), and
> other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
> 
 Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
 
 Jack
>>> I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
>> 
>> Have you been able to get any assistance from the uplink/teleport noc
>> or the satellite operator?
> Yes, for sure.
> Satellite operator doesn't provide much help, but uplink proposed for us some 
> plan to solve all this issues.
> Already we implement temporary solution, and things at least stable now, plus 
> it seems interference is lower somehow few last days.
> 
> 

Here is a dumb idea that I have actually seen cause problems :

Is it possible that the declination of the satellite from your location is the 
same as the Sun right now ? That will cause up to several hours of interruption 
every mid-day. The clue is that the shadow of the receiver box is in the center 
of the dish (for prime focus mounts). 

You might be surprised how many times this has caught people, so I thought I 
would mention it.

Regards
Marshall
 


> 

Re: Internet blocked in Algeria?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 12, 2011, at 6:20 PM, Jim Cowie wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 6:05 PM, mikea  wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 05:01:12PM -0500, Joly MacFie wrote:
>>> Any confirmation of internet blocking?
>>> 
>>> http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=26849
>>> 
>>> As massive street demonstrations are met with widespread violence in
>>> Algeria, the country is reporting that many Facebook accounts have been
>>> deleted or blocked by the government, in an effort to stifle protests
>>> against President Abdelaziz Boutifleka, activists on Twitter reported around
>>> midday in the country.
>>> They also said that the government is working fast to cut off all Internet
>>> providers in the country.
>> 
>> At least some websites, though not all of them, that are linked off
>> 
>> seem to be working OK. I grant they're all government, but they're up
>> and serving requests.
>> 
> 
> Looks up to us, with the exception of a few websites.   Routes stable,
> inbound traceroutes unremarkable, lots and lots of DZ-hosted content
> available.
> 
> http://www.renesys.com/blog/2011/02/watching-algeria.shtml
> 

I have received several reports of Twitter and Facebook outages in Algeria, but 
not general Internet blockage.

The Telegraph has this report


or
http://bit.ly/f97OmX

which talks vaguely of Internet outages.

On the other side of both the coin and the world, there is this

http://knightcenter.utexas.edu/blog/bloggers-celebrate-cuba-unblocks-their-sites

"Bloggers celebrate as Cuba unblocks their site"

Maybe this is connected to the new fiber optic cable to Venezuela, it seems to 
have caught everyone by surprise. 

Regards
Marshall

> best,  --jim
> 
> 

Re: Egypt 'hijacked Vodafone network'

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:20 PM, andrew.wallace wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Scott Brim  wrote:
>> On 02/03/2011 10:14 EST, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:24 AM, andrew.wallace wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mobile phone firm Vodafone accuses the Egyptian authorities of
>>>> using its network to send pro-government text messages.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12357694
>>> 
>>> Here is their PR
>>> 
>>> http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/press.html
>>> 
>>> Note that this is entirely legal, under "the emergency powers
>>> provisions of the Telecoms Act"
>> 
>> Which is legal, Vodafone's protest or the government's telling them to
>> send messages?  afaik the agreement was that the operator would have
>> preloaded canned messages, agreed on in advance with the government, and
>> now the government is telling them to send out arbitrary messages they
>> compose on the spot.
>> 
>> 
> 
> I wonder if these messages were blockable by the end-user or if they were 
> being sent as a service announcement from Vodafone.
> 
> Certainly, if the government were sending the messages under the company name 
> then something sounds wrong about that.
> 
> What I would like is to hear from someone who received the messages and what 
> their experiences were.
> 

They were described to me as being "from Vodafone." I assumed that this meant 
that they were service messages. 

Marshall

> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: And so it ends (slightly off topic)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> Somehow, it is appropriate that this should happen on February 3. On February 
> 3, 1959, Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and JP Richardson (aka The Big Bopper) 
> died in a plane crash. Don McLean immortalized that day as "The Day The Music 
> Died" in his 1971 hit, "American Pie".
> 

Yes, among other things it ties it nicely to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0

Regards
Marshall

>   Ron
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Significant Announcement (re: IPv4) 3 February - Watch it Live!

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Max Larson Henry wrote:

> News conference starts now


The exhaustion has made CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/03/internet.addresses.gone/

Marshall


> 
> -M
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> 
>> It didn't work too bad.  Does anyone know why it was pretty much over at
>> 9:30, when they said it would start? Did they start a half-hour early or
>> something?
>> 
>> 
>> -Randy
>> 
>> --
>> | Randy Carpenter
>> | Vice President - IT Services
>> | Red Hat Certified Engineer
>> | First Network Group, Inc.
>> | (800)578-6381, Opt. 1
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>>> Once upon a time, Sameer Khosla  said:
 Anyone else getting Error establishing a database connection trying
 to
 bring this up?
>>> 
>>> It was posted to /. this morning, so it is probably overloaded (I
>>> didn't
>>> even try).
>>> --
>>> Chris Adams 
>>> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
>>> I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Egypt 'hijacked Vodafone network'

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:24 AM, andrew.wallace wrote:

> Mobile phone firm Vodafone accuses the Egyptian authorities of using its 
> network to send pro-government text messages.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12357694

Here is their PR

http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/press.html

Note that this is entirely legal, under "the emergency powers provisions of the 
Telecoms Act"

Regards
Marshall


> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:23 AM, Jim Cowie wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Teo Ruiz  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 21:30, Marshall Eubanks  wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> >
> >> As an update, BGP for Noor.net has been withdrawn. Even the Egyptian stock 
> >> exchange - egyptse.com - now appears to be off the Internet.
> >
> > I have been told that the Egyptian Prime Minister has publicly announced 
> > that the Internet would be restored soon, but at present neither my
> 
> Looks like it's coming back: http://stat.ripe.net/egypt
> 
> ~2500 prefixes being announced now.
> --
> teo - http://www.teoruiz.com
> 
> "Res publica non dominetur"
> 
> Yes, confirmed from 09:29 UTC.   Basically all major providers are back, full 
> status quo ante (modulo reagg), major sites are up.
> 
> http://www.renesys.com/blog/2011/02/egypt-returns-to-the-internet.shtml

It's not just BGP - DNS (based on the samples I have been testing) seems to be 
fully back too. 

Regards
Marshall

> 
> Good thoughts go out to the guys in the EG NOCs this morning.Nanog wants 
> to hear your war stories some day over a cup of tea.
> 
> --jim
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> As an update, BGP for Noor.net has been withdrawn. Even the Egyptian stock 
> exchange - egyptse.com - now appears to be off the Internet.
> 

I have been told that the Egyptian Prime Minister has publicly announced that 
the Internet would be restored soon, but at present neither my 
monitoring nor http://stat.ripe.net/egypt/ confirms this. 

Regards
Marshall


> DNS for egyptse.com also appears to be down, but Noor.net is definitely 
> withdrawn :
> 
> dig www.noor.net
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> www.noor.net
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15709
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;www.noor.net.IN  A
> 
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> www.noor.net. 503 IN  CNAME   noor.net.
> noor.net. 503 IN  A   217.139.227.20
> 
> show ip bgp 217.139.227.20
> % Network not in table
> 
> 
> Marshall
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Franck Martin wrote:
> 
>> If I'm correct, in 2000 in Fiji, the main fiber optic cable from the 
>> national provider to the international provider was sabotaged, cutting all 
>> communications. Fortunately an Alcatel team was on the island (SCC 
>> commissioning) with the right tools and could splice it back in a few hours, 
>> otherwise Fiji would have gone dark for days...
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Joe Abley" 
>> To: "Marshall Eubanks" 
>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>> Sent: Saturday, 29 January, 2011 7:32:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
>> 
>> 
>> On 2011-01-28, at 11:33, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have seen nation state disconnects where light is lost.
>>> 
>>> I believe that was the case for Burma, for example.
>> 
>> It was not the case in Nepal in 2005 though, if I remember correctly. In 
>> that case connectivity to the outside was maintained, but access to that 
>> connectivity by people inside the country was curtailed.
>> 
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: quietly....

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 1, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:

> 
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 3:53 AM, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 12:18:17PM +0100, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>>> On 1 feb 2011, at 4:55, Jimmy Hess wrote:
>>> 
 IPv4's not dead yet;  even the first  RIR exhaustion probable in  3 -
 6 months  doesn't end the IPv4 ride.
>>> 
>>> IPv4 is very dead in the sense that it's not going to go anywhere in the 
>>> future.
>>> 
>>> The rest is just procrastination.
>> 
>> 
>>  taking the long view - your statement applies equally to IPv6.
>> 
>>  of course YMMV
>> 
>> --bill
> 
> I disagree. I think there is little, if any, innovation that will continue to 
> be put
> into IPv4 hence forth. I think there will be much innovation in IPv6 in the
> coming years.

I think that this is what will finally drive true v6 adaptation (as opposed to 
having it as some sort of super NAT).

As v6 innovation continues, v4 will be seen as something obsolete that needs 
constant work (and v4 innovation will be more and more about
patching it to work and keep up with v6). 

Regards
Marshall

> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 28, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> We did some analysis of the situation in Egypt using the RIPEstat toolbox 
> (please note, this is a prototype and we're not sure how it will handle a big 
> load):
> 
> http://labs.ripe.net/Members/akvadrako/live_eqyptian_internet_incident_analysis


This - specifically http://stat.ripe.net/egypt/ - 
 
shows another big spike today, which is presumably when Noor.net was pulled. 

Marshall

> 
> Mirjam Kuehne
> RIPE NCC
> 
> 
> Carlos Alcantar wrote:
>> Looks like you can still make phone calls into Egypt.  So it's not totally 
>> lights out...
>> Carlos Alcantar
>> Race Communications / Race Team Member 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, 
>> CA. 94080
>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314  Fax:  +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / 
>> www.race.com
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Paul Ferguson [mailto:fergdawgs...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 
>> 27, 2011 11:46 PM
>> To: Joel Jaeggli
>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Joel Jaeggli  wrote:
>>> On 1/27/11 10:49 PM, Roy wrote:
 Moral of the story: Separate facts from assumptions and guesses.  I did 
 some Google searches and that region has had large scale disruptions in 
 the past.  Several cables follow the same path to the Suez canal and were 
 hit.
>>> my links through the region are all fine, but they don't jump off the cable 
>>> in egypt just pass through.
>>> 
 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/2008_submarine_cable_d
 isr
 uption
 
>> To my knowledge, no one has reported any cable problems in Norther Africa
>> - -- and news of those problems generally travels very fast.  :-)
>> Also, if there *was* a cable problem on one of the paths through the 
>> vicinity, it affect more than just Egypt:
>> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Cable_map18.svg
>> I don't think it takes a leap of imagination to understand what has happened 
>> here.
>> - - ferg
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: PGP Desktop 9.5.3 (Build 5003)
>> wj8DBQFNQnQ0q1pz9mNUZTMRAoFQAKCE8P0wINouFWUvW9GFn7FR6XVmOwCdGV/i
>> VzTaxnJQOPVqyY2bP8ZraDA=
>> =daOC
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> --
>> "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
>> Engineering Architecture for the Internet
>> fergdawgster(at)gmail.com
>> ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> 
>> As an update, BGP for Noor.net has been withdrawn. Even the Egyptian stock
>> exchange - egyptse.com - now appears to be off the Internet.
>> 
>> 
> Yep, Noor is now down.

Collateral damage from all of this, as detailed in  

http://blog.icann.org/2011/01/status-report-on-the-dns-in-egypt/

is that the Arabic script top-level domain .masr (مصر) 
has been unavailable since the 27th, since it is is operated by NTRA of Egypt.

Regards
Marshall


> 
> Those on the ground with Noor DSL in Cairo contacted their front line
> support, and they're saying "technical problems" that will take a few hours
> to fix.
> 
> Does anyone has a list of routes that are still up, and seem to correlate
> with Egyptian locations? Andree's last list is here:
> http://bgpmon.net/egypt-routes-jan29-2011.txt
> 
> I'm staring at looking glass output to check these remaining routes, and
> that seems unfair on both those offering those free services, and my own
> sanity...
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> 
>> DNS for egyptse.com also appears to be down, but Noor.net is definitely
>> withdrawn :
>> 
>> dig www.noor.net
>> 
>> ; <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> www.noor.net
>> ;; global options: +cmd
>> ;; Got answer:
>> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15709
>> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
>> 
>> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
>> ;www.noor.net.  IN  A
>> 
>> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>> www.noor.net.   503 IN  CNAME   noor.net.
>> noor.net.   503 IN  A   217.139.227.20
>> 
>> show ip bgp 217.139.227.20
>> % Network not in table
>> 
>> 
>> Marshall
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Franck Martin wrote:
>> 
>>> If I'm correct, in 2000 in Fiji, the main fiber optic cable from the
>> national provider to the international provider was sabotaged, cutting all
>> communications. Fortunately an Alcatel team was on the island (SCC
>> commissioning) with the right tools and could splice it back in a few hours,
>> otherwise Fiji would have gone dark for days...
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Joe Abley" 
>>> To: "Marshall Eubanks" 
>>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>>> Sent: Saturday, 29 January, 2011 7:32:07 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2011-01-28, at 11:33, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I have seen nation state disconnects where light is lost.
>>>> 
>>>> I believe that was the case for Burma, for example.
>>> 
>>> It was not the case in Nepal in 2005 though, if I remember correctly. In
>> that case connectivity to the outside was maintained, but access to that
>> connectivity by people inside the country was curtailed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

As an update, BGP for Noor.net has been withdrawn. Even the Egyptian stock 
exchange - egyptse.com - now appears to be off the Internet.

DNS for egyptse.com also appears to be down, but Noor.net is definitely 
withdrawn :

dig www.noor.net

; <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> www.noor.net
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15709
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.noor.net.  IN  A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.noor.net.   503 IN  CNAME   noor.net.
noor.net.   503 IN  A   217.139.227.20

show ip bgp 217.139.227.20
% Network not in table


Marshall



On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Franck Martin wrote:

> If I'm correct, in 2000 in Fiji, the main fiber optic cable from the national 
> provider to the international provider was sabotaged, cutting all 
> communications. Fortunately an Alcatel team was on the island (SCC 
> commissioning) with the right tools and could splice it back in a few hours, 
> otherwise Fiji would have gone dark for days...
> 
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Joe Abley" 
> To: "Marshall Eubanks" 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Saturday, 29 January, 2011 7:32:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
> 
> 
> On 2011-01-28, at 11:33, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> 
>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> 
>>> I have seen nation state disconnects where light is lost.
>> 
>> I believe that was the case for Burma, for example.
> 
> It was not the case in Nepal in 2005 though, if I remember correctly. In that 
> case connectivity to the outside was maintained, but access to that 
> connectivity by people inside the country was curtailed.
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:

> I have seen nation state disconnects where light is lost.

I believe that was the case for Burma, for example.

Marshall


>  
> 
> Jared Mauch
> 
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Christopher Morrow  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Jake Khuon  wrote:
>> 
>>> I guess this begs the question of whether or not we're seeing actual
>>> layer1 going down or just the effects of mass BGP withdrawals.  Are we
>>> seeing lights out on fibre links or just peering sessions going down?
>>> Both could still point to a coordinated intentional blackout by the
>>> Egyptian gov't though.
>> 
>> out of curiousity, what's the difference though between loss of light
>> and peer shutdown? If the local gov't comes in and says: "Make the
>> internets go down", you as the op choose how to do that... NOT getting
>> calls from your peer for interface alarms is probably sane. You can
>> simply drop your routes, leave BGP running even and roll ...
>> 
>> If it's clear (and it seems to be) that the issue is a
>> nation-state-decision... implementation (how it's done, no IF it's
>> done) isn't really important, is it?
>> 
>> -chris
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 28, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Patrik Wallström wrote:
>> On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:15 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>> 
>>> Al Arabiya is reporting (via twitter) that the Internet has been shut of in 
>>> Syria (where I have not heard of reports of protests).
>>> 
>>> I have no confirmation of this as yet.
>> 
>> I have seen no evidence if this. Can still reach services within the country.
> 
> Definitely not shut down.

Thanks

Marshall

> 
> -- 
> TTFN,
> patrick
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

Al Arabiya is reporting (via twitter) that the Internet has been shut of in 
Syria (where I have not heard of reports of protests).

I have no confirmation of this as yet.

Regards
Marshall


On Jan 27, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Roy  wrote:
> 
>> On 1/27/2011 3:47 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:
>> 
>>> Around 2236 UCT, we lost all Internet connectivity with our contacts in
>>> Egypt, and I'm hearing reports of (in declining order of confirmability):
>>> 
>>> 1) Internet connectivity loss on major (broadband) ISPs
>>> 2) No SMS
>>> 4) Intermittent connectivity with smaller (dialup?) ISPs
>>> 5) No mobile service in major cities -- Cairo, Alexandria
>>> 
>>> The working assumption here is that the Egyptian government has made the
>>> decision to shut down all external, and perhaps internal electronic
>>> communication as a reaction to the ongoing protests in that country.
>>> 
>>> If anyone can provide more details as to what they're seeing, the extent,
>>> plus times and dates, it would be very useful. In moments like this there
>>> are often many unconfirmed rumors: I'm seeking concrete reliable
>>> confirmation which I can pass onto the press and those working to bring
>>> some
>>> communications back up (if you have a ham radio license, there is some
>>> very
>>> early work to provide emergency connectivity. Info at:
>>> http://pastebin.com/fHHBqZ7Q )
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> I suggest that you confine your information to the press on what you know
>> rather than speculation on the cause.
>> 
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
>> stupidity, but don't rule out malice"
>> 
>> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
>> 
>> 
> That is indeed one of the reasons why I'm seeking corroboration of the
> pattern of behaviour; at least to isolate and eliminate any alternative
> explanations. It would certainly be of operational interest (and certainly
> not unknown in the annals of historical "stupidity") if, say, a single
> fiber-cut or network upgrade was disrupting all of these different forms of
> communication simultaneously.  On the other hand, there's only a finite
> number of imaginary backhoes you can conjure up before other explanations
> begin to trump Hanlon's razor.
> 
> Right now, I think that http://bgpmon.net/blog/?p=450 explains (or at least
> illustrates) why we were getting reports of widespread but not universal
> Internet interruption. See also
> http://www.renesys.com/blog/2011/01/egypt-leaves-the-internet.shtml .
> 
> I don't have a good explanation for the SMS problems, but lots of
> independent reports; I've yet to have any real confirmation of no mobile
> service, and lots of denials, so right now I'm going to assume that's
> untrue.
> 
> If anyone can get explanations from their peers in the region, please pass
> them on (however incomplete or informal -- mail me directly if you'd rather
> not contribute to rumors or non-operational NANOG discussions).
> 
> It's late at night in Egypt, and the biggest protests are planned for
> tomorrow. A great deal of life-critical systems will be under a great deal
> of stress during that time, and the interruptions in network connectivity
> would be extremely worrying.
> 
> Thanks for checking this out,
> 
> d.
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:29 AM, Carlos Alcantar wrote:

> Looks like you can still make phone calls into Egypt.  So it's not totally 
> lights out...
> 

Mobile is apparently being shut down now :

http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/press.html

Statement - Vodafone Egypt
All mobile operators in Egypt have been instructed to suspend services in 
selected areas. Under Egyptian legislation the authorities have the right to 
issue such an order and we are obliged to comply with it. The Egyptian 
authorities will be clarifying the situation in due course . 

-

I think that clarifications are unnecessary in this case. 

Regards
Marshall


> 
> Carlos Alcantar
> Race Communications / Race Team Member 
> 101 Haskins Way, So. San Francisco, CA. 94080
> Phone: +1 415 376 3314  Fax:  +1 650 246 8901 / carlos *at* race.com / 
> www.race.com
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Ferguson [mailto:fergdawgs...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:46 PM
> To: Joel Jaeggli
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Connectivity status for Egypt
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Joel Jaeggli  wrote:
> 
>> On 1/27/11 10:49 PM, Roy wrote:
>>> Moral of the story: Separate facts from assumptions and guesses.  I 
>>> did some Google searches and that region has had large scale 
>>> disruptions in the past.  Several cables follow the same path to the 
>>> Suez canal and were hit.
>> 
>> my links through the region are all fine, but they don't jump off the 
>> cable in egypt just pass through.
>> 
>>> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/2008_submarine_cable_d
>>> isr
>>> uption
>>> 
> 
> To my knowledge, no one has reported any cable problems in Norther Africa
> - -- and news of those problems generally travels very fast.  :-)
> 
> Also, if there *was* a cable problem on one of the paths through the 
> vicinity, it affect more than just Egypt:
> 
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Cable_map18.svg
> 
> I don't think it takes a leap of imagination to understand what has happened 
> here.
> 
> - - ferg
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: PGP Desktop 9.5.3 (Build 5003)
> 
> wj8DBQFNQnQ0q1pz9mNUZTMRAoFQAKCE8P0wINouFWUvW9GFn7FR6XVmOwCdGV/i
> VzTaxnJQOPVqyY2bP8ZraDA=
> =daOC
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
> --
> "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
>  Engineering Architecture for the Internet
>  fergdawgster(at)gmail.com
>  ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Connectivity status for Egypt

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:47 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:

> Around 2236 UCT, we lost all Internet connectivity with our contacts in
> Egypt, and I'm hearing reports of (in declining order of confirmability):
> 
> 1) Internet connectivity loss on major (broadband) ISPs
> 2) No SMS
> 4) Intermittent connectivity with smaller (dialup?) ISPs
> 5) No mobile service in major cities -- Cairo, Alexandria
> 
> The working assumption here is that the Egyptian government has made the
> decision to shut down all external, and perhaps internal electronic
> communication as a reaction to the ongoing protests in that country.
> 
> If anyone can provide more details as to what they're seeing, the extent,
> plus times and dates, it would be very useful. In moments like this there
> are often many unconfirmed rumors: I'm seeking concrete reliable
> confirmation which I can pass onto the press and those working to bring some
> communications back up (if you have a ham radio license, there is some very
> early work to provide emergency connectivity. Info at:
> http://pastebin.com/fHHBqZ7Q )

On twitter (follow the #jan25 and #jan28 hash tags), there are many reports of 
loss of internet connectivity in 
Egypt. Apparently cell phones and land lines are still working.

Of course, the assumption there is that this is connected to the large protests 
expected tomorrow in Egypt. 

Regards
Marshall



> 
> Thank you,
> 
> -- 
> dobr...@cpj.org
> Danny O'Brien, Committee to Protect Journalists
> gpg key: http://www.spesh.com/danny/crypto/dannyobrien-key20091106.txt
> 

Re: Is NAT can provide some kind of protection?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 15, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Leen Besselink wrote:

> On 01/15/2011 03:01 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
>> On 1/15/11 1:24 PM, Leen Besselink wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm a full supported for getting rid of NAT when deploying IPv6, but
>>> have to say the alternative is not all that great either.
>>> 
>>> Because what do people want, they want privacy, so they use the
>>> IPv6 privacy extensions. Which are enabled by default on Windows
>>> when IPv6 is used on XP, Vista and 7.
>> There aren't enough hosts on most subnets that privacy extensions
>> actually buy you that much. sort of like have a bunch of hosts behind a
>> single ip, a bunch of hosts behind a single /64 aren't really insured
>> much in the way of privacy, facebook is going to know that it's you.
>> 
> 
> Now this gets a bit a offtopic, but:
> 
> If you already have a Facebook account, any site you visit which has
> "Facebook Connect" on it usually points directly at facebook.com for
> downloading the 'Facebook connect' image so the Facebook-cookies have
> already been sent to Facebook.

That assumes that you use the same browser for Facebook as for other uses. I 
recommend not
doing that, but to dedicate a browser for Facebook only, precisely because 
Facebook plays these sorts of games and is such a security hole. 

Regards
Marshall 


> 
> Why would Facebook care about your IP-address ?
> 
>>> And now you have no idea who had that IPv6-address at some point
>>> in time. The solution to that problem is ? I guess the only solution is to
>>> have the IPv6 equivalant of arpwatch to log the MAC-addresses/IPv6-
>>> address combinations ?
>>> 
>>> Or is their an other solution I'm missing.
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Internet to Tunisia

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 11, 2011, at 6:03 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:

> On 11/01/2011 10:50, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>> I am hearing reports of Internet blockage in / to Tunisia, where a near 
>> full-on revolt is being coordinated / reported on by
>> social media such as twitter ( #sidibouzid ), Facebook and Youtube.
>> 
>> Can anyone confirm that there is blockage ? Are there any in-country 
>> resources to check this ? There does not appear to be a looking glass in 
>> Tunisia.
> 
> Are you referring to this:
> 
> http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/201101/6651/Tunisian-government-harvesting-usernames-and-passwords
> 
> (short url: http://tinyurl.com/36tu64h)

No, I have received personal communications. 

On twitter right now there are frequent claims that all https is blocked 
(presumably a port blocking). 

Regards
Marshall



> 
> Nick
> 

Internet to Tunisia

[Marshall Eubanks]

I am hearing reports of Internet blockage in / to Tunisia, where a near full-on 
revolt is being coordinated / reported on by
social media such as twitter ( #sidibouzid ), Facebook and Youtube. 

Can anyone confirm that there is blockage ? Are there any in-country resources 
to check this ? There does not appear to be a looking glass in Tunisia. 

Regards
Marshall 

Next generation TV over the Internet: This revolution will be televised

[Marshall Eubanks]

Lenny Giuliano of Juniper (IETF MBONED co-chair) has written an article in 
Network World that I thought 
NANOGers might be interested in :

http://www.networkworld.com/news/tech/2011/010511-tech-update-next-gen-tv.html

He clearly describes the need for multicast in the upcoming video-centric 
Internet and how the AMT protocol can help
by providing automatic tunnels between unicast-only users and multicast-enabled 
content, and provides a 
vision for a Internet "NextGenTV."

Regards
Marshall 

Re: sudden low spam levels?

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 3, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Scott Howard wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Ken Chase  wrote:
> 
>> I have two independent mailservers, and two other customers that run their
>> own
>> servers, all largely unrelated infrastructures and target domains, suddenly
>> experiencing low levels of spam.
>> 
> 
> There's definitely been a drop-off in spam levels over the past week, which
> comes on top of a general drop over the past few months.
> 

According the to Symantec  "December 2010 State of Spam & Phishing Report", 
spam is reducing 

http://www.spamfighter.com/News-15570-Spam-Volume-Continues-to-Decrease-Symantec.htm

I have seen various reports relating this to the taking down of 
this or that botnet (see, e.g., 

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Botnet-Holiday-Spam-Levels-Drop-for-Christmas-566115/
 )

but I would take that with a big grain of salt. 

Regards
Marshall

> Although far from a great indicator of global levels, the following two
> graphs give a good idea on what's happening on a relative basis :
> Past Month - http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spammonth
> Past Year - http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamyear
> 
> The numbers for December are especially unusual, as with Christmas coming
> it's normally one of the higher months for spam.
> 
> The drop-off since September is mainly due to the closure of
> spamit.com(Pharma spam referal company), although I haven't seen any
> reports of what's
> caused the drop-off in the past week or so.
> 
>  Scott.
> 

Re: The tale of a single MAC

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Jan 2, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Corey Quinn wrote:

> 
> On Jan 2, 2011, at 1:24 PM, Franck Martin wrote:
> 
>> In the early 90's a friend of mine got a box of 10 HP cards with all the 
>> same MAC address.
> 
> In my early days of network admining, a coworker told me a (apocryphal) story 
> of 3com shipping a batch of 80K cards with identical MAC addresses, which 
> they then had to recall.
> 
> Unfortunately a cursory Google turns up nothing, so I suppose he was either 
> misinformed or pulling my leg.
> 

I have also heard such stories, again from the '90s. Can cause odd failure 
modes. 

Regards
Marshall


> -- Corey Quinn / KB1JWQ
> 
> 
> 

Re: Spamhaus under DDOS from AnonOps (Wikileaks.info)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Joe Greco wrote:

>> On 12/18/2010 5:15 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>> 
>>> I get nothing from wikileaks.org, although the DNS is active :
>>> 
>> 
>> $ host wikileaks.org
>> wikileaks.org has address 64.64.12.170
> 
> Doesn't it seem vaguely suspicious that whois was just updated?
> 
> Domain ID:D130035267-LROR
> Domain Name:WIKILEAKS.ORG
> Created On:04-Oct-2006 05:54:19 UTC
> Last Updated On:17-Dec-2010 01:57:59 UTC
> Expiration Date:04-Oct-2018 05:54:19 UTC
> 
> It seems like it'd be reasonable to be cautious.

Yes. Now, for me, wikileaks.org does alias to wikileaks.info

wget -r wikileaks.org
--13:49:00--  http://wikileaks.org/
   => `wikileaks.org/index.html'
Resolving wikileaks.org... done.
Connecting to wikileaks.org[64.64.12.170]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ [following]
--13:49:00--  http://mirror.wikileaks.info/
   => `mirror.wikileaks.info/index.html'
Resolving mirror.wikileaks.info... done.
Connecting to mirror.wikileaks.info[92.241.190.202]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 90,059 [text/html]

Which, according to RIPE is assigned to Russia, but with a contact in Panama

% Information related to '92.241.190.0 - 92.241.190.255'

inetnum:92.241.190.0 - 92.241.190.255
netname:HEIHACHI
descr:  Heihachi Ltd
country:RU
admin-c:HEI668-RIPE
tech-c: HEI668-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: RU-WEBALTA-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered

person: Andreas Mueller
address:Bella Vista, Calle 53, Marbella
address:Ciudad de Panama, Panama
remarks:Visit us under gigalinknetwork.com
remarks:ICQ 7979970
remarks:Dedicated Servers, Webspace, VPS, DDOS protected Webspace
remarks:Send abuse ONLY to: ab...@gigalinknetwork.com
remarks:Technical and sales info: supp...@gigalinknetwork.com
phone:  +5078321458
abuse-mailbox:  ab...@gigalinknetwork.com
nic-hdl:hei668-RIPE
mnt-by: WEBALTA-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered


neither of which would give me confidence.

Regards
Marshall



> 
> ... JG
> -- 
> Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
> "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I
> won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail 
> spam(CNN)
> With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
> 

Re: Spamhaus under DDOS from AnonOps (Wikileaks.info)

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Dec 18, 2010, at 4:00 PM, Jack Bates wrote:

> On 12/18/2010 6:58 AM, Steve Linford wrote:
>> For trying to warn about the crime gangs located at the wikileaks.info 
>> mirror IP, Spamhaus is now under ddos by AnonOps. The criminals there do not 
>> like our free speech at all.
>> 
> 
> It appears that wikileaks.org is operational again and redirecting to 
> mirros.wikileaks.info, which draws concern of who now controls wikileaks.org. 
> .info definitely isn't the same layout as all the mirrors.
> 
> 

I get nothing from wikileaks.org, although the DNS is active :

dig wikileaks.org

;; ANSWER SECTION:
wikileaks.org.  4774IN  A   64.64.12.170

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
wikileaks.org.  61470   IN  NS  ns100.dynadot.com.
wikileaks.org.  61470   IN  NS  ns101.dynadot.com.

64.64.12.170 is
NetRange:   64.64.0.0 - 64.64.31.255
CIDR:   64.64.0.0/19
OriginAS:   AS25847
NetName:SERVINT

and, at least here, a traceroute disappears into servint

 8  64.125.195.222.t00883-02.above.net (64.125.195.222)  15.905 ms  12.172 ms  
12.072 ms
 9  sc-smv1766.servint.net (216.22.61.86)  15.879 ms  11.974 ms  13.761 ms
10  * * *

According to this

http://nanozen.info/2010/12/spamhaus-under-ddos-from-anonops-wikileaks-info/

wikileaks.info is being hosted by bad guys :

"The site data, disks, connections and visitor traffic, are all under the 
control of the Heihachi cybercrime gang. There are more than 40 criminal-run 
sites operating on the same IP address as wikileaks.info, including 
carder-elite.biz, h4ck3rz.biz, elite-crew.net, and bank phishes 
paypal-securitycenter.com and postbank-kontodirekt.com."

However, at least for me here in Virginia, wikileaks.org is not aliasing to 
anywhere, but instead simply times out.

Regards
Marshall


> Jack
> 
> 

Re: "potential new and different architectural approach" to solve theComcast - L3 dispute

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Dec 17, 2010, at 1:59 PM, david raistrick wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, George Bonser wrote:
> 
>> What if instead of the end users paying for Internet service, the content 
>> providers did.  Sort of like broadcast TV where the broadcasters
> 
> Um.
> 
> I'm a content provider.
> 
> I pay a -lot- for internet service already.   That's how my bits and bytes 
> arrive in the tubes for those end users to recieve...
> 
> 

+1 from here.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks
AmericaFree.TV

> 
> --
> david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
> 
> 
>