date:20030715

if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an anonymous block. in 
most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont see any subclassing 
here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 

btw, are you using object oriented design in your database? How efficient do you find 
that? 

 From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 06:49:25 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Object Types in PL/SQL

 Hi list

 I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
 manual, it should be 
 possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I did
 that, Object Type 
 compiles without complaints:

 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
 (

   vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

   CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
   RETURN SELF AS RESULT,

   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
   RETURN VARCHAR2

 ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

   CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2)
   RETURN SELF AS RESULT IS
   BEGIN
 IF (LENGTH(piVNR)=11) THEN
   SELF.vVNR := SUBSTR(piVNR,1,4) || '.' || SUBSTR(piVNR,5,4) || '.' ||
 SUBSTR(piVNR,9,3);
 ELSE
   SELF.vVNR := 'invalid';
 END IF;
 RETURN;
   END;

   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
   BEGIN
 RETURN SELF.vVNR;
   END;
 END;

 Now, everytime I want to create an object like this:

 declare
   vVNR tVNR;
 begin
   vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
   dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
 end;

 I get the following error message:

 ERROR at line 4:
 ORA-06550: line 4, column 15:
 PLS-00307: too many declarations of 'TVNR' match this call
 ORA-06550: line 4, column 3:
 PL/SQL: Statement ignored

 Looks to me like the PL/SQL enginge isn't able to distinguish the default
 constructor from the 
 overridden (my) version, since they have the same signature (of course).

 Any input ? I couldn't find ANY descenct hints in the fine manual or the
 Feuerstein book :(.

 TIA,
 Stefan

 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Stefan Jahnke
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Re: Performance problems VMS 8i

Hi!

One of first thing I'd check when migrating from 7 to 8i, is settings for
optimizer_index_* parameters. And of course, your tablesindexes should be
analyzed (if not still explicitly using RBO).

Tanel.

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:49 PM


 Hi Barbara
  After an upgrade from Oracle 7.3.4 to 8.1.7.4 on
  OpenVMS, some (but not all) of our batch jobs are
  suffering severe performance degradation.  One of our
  critical jobs went from 3 hours to 9 hours elapsed
  time.
 
  The reason is obvious.  The solution is not.  One of
  our jobs increased from 45 minutes to 1 hr 30 min.
  The direct i/o  for this job increased from 480 to
  1,046,938. (Identical everything.  Only difference
  7.3.4 versus 8.1.7.4) This direct i/o number is from
  the parent process - the process that is communicating
  with the detached process actually running the oracle
  code via a mailbox (using the bequeath adapter).  The
  jobs causing trouble are batch jobs running on the
  server, and are using bequeath.

 This sounds like a piece of SQL has hit upon a different execution plan.
 I'd recommend the following course of action

 1. get up to date statistics as Jared says (compute them if you can).
 2. modify the job so that it does the following
alter session set events '10046 trace name context forever, level
 12';
your job
alter session set events '10046 trace name context off';
 3. run the job.

 You will get a trace file in the udump directory with waits and elapsed
 time in it, you can run that thru tkprof. Look for large values of
 elapsed time. Chances are excellent (better than 90%) there will be 1
 (or at an outside 2) statements that take up more than an hour of your
 hour and a half.  Chances are pretty good ( better than 75%) that faced
 with those statements you can tune them to take less than 20 minutes - a
 good index, a rewritten statement.

 If you don't like all this set events stuff connect internal to the db
 and run @?/rdbms/admin/dbmssupp and replace the trace stuff with exec
 sys.dbms_support.start_trace(true,true); your job exec
 dbms_support.stop_trace(); It does the same thing.

 If in the unlikely event the above does not hold true, well you will see
 what you spend your time waiting on.  If it is network stuff then maybe
 you can think about raising a tar with more info. I honestly expect it
 to be the sql.

 Do feel free to post the results of the above, if only to show how wrong
 I am.

 Good luck.

 Niall

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Niall Litchfield
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

2003-07-15 Thread Stefan Jahnke

Hi

The anonnymous block at the bottom of my email is just a little test driver.
Basically, I don't use subtyping here. I just override the default
constructor.
If I don't implement a constructor at all, I would look like this:

CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
(
 
  vVNR VARCHAR2(14),
  
  MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
  RETURN VARCHAR2
   
) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

  MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
  BEGIN
RETURN SELF.vVNR;
  END;
END;

And I would get a hidden, system provided default constructor.
That would allow me to do the following (tested it):

declare
  vVNR tVNR;
begin
  vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
  dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
end;

And I would get the output:

12345678901

Unfortunately, that doesn't give me any control regarding the initialization
of vVNR.
Explanation: VNR = Versichertennummer, which is kind of the Swiss analog
to the 
US Social Security ID, only less unique ;).

We don't use Object Relational features IN the database. Just plain
relational tables.
What we would like to use are Object Types to encapsulate certain things
like the above 
shown VNR to ensure data integrity during data conversion for PL/SQL
programs using 
these types. It's more of a guideline where the developers are constrained
to use the 
types for certain stuff.

Enjoy your day,

Stefan Jahnke
Consultant
BOV Aktiengesellschaft
Tel.: +49 201/45 13-289
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.bov.de
Abonnieren Sie unseren Newsletter: http://www.bov.de/enews

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24.07.03 in Essen. Anmeldung unter http://www.bov.de/microsoft-day oder
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Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen
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As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be
copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for
your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline
all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments
given above.


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:05
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: Re: Object Types in PL/SQL


if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an anonymous
block. in most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont see
any subclassing here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 

btw, are you using object oriented design in your database? How efficient do
you find that? 
 
 From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 06:49:25 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Object Types in PL/SQL
 
 Hi list
 
 I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
 manual, it should be 
 possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I
did
 that, Object Type 
 compiles without complaints:
 
 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
 (
  
   vVNR VARCHAR2(14),
   
   CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
   RETURN SELF AS RESULT,
   
   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
   RETURN VARCHAR2
   
 ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;
 
 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS
 
   CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2)
   RETURN SELF AS RESULT IS
   BEGIN
 IF (LENGTH(piVNR)=11) THEN
   SELF.vVNR := SUBSTR(piVNR,1,4) || '.' || SUBSTR(piVNR,5,4) || '.' ||
 SUBSTR(piVNR,9,3);
 ELSE
   SELF.vVNR := 'invalid';
 END IF;
 RETURN;
   END;
 
   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
   BEGIN
 RETURN SELF.vVNR;
   END;
 END;
 
 Now, everytime I want to create an object like this:
 
 declare
   vVNR tVNR;
 begin
   vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
   dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
 end;
 
 I get the following error message:
 
 ERROR at line 4:
 ORA-06550: line 4, column 15:
 PLS-00307: too many declarations of 'TVNR' match this call
 ORA-06550: line 4, column 3:
 PL/SQL: Statement ignored
 
 Looks to me like the PL/SQL enginge isn't able to distinguish the default
 constructor from the 
 overridden (my) version, since they have the same signature (of course).
 
 Any input ? I couldn't find ANY descenct hints in the fine manual or the
 Feuerstein book :(.
 
 TIA,
 Stefan
 
 
  
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Stefan Jahnke
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
 -
 To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of

Re: OEM Repository Problem

2003-07-15 Thread Wolfgang Breitling

This is a shot in the dark, but try and delete (or rename) 
Oracle_Home\sysman\config\omsconfig.properties

At 10:14 PM 7/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Listers,

I had OEM repository on my database installed on my PC.

Accidentally I dropped the database. Now I have recreated the database. 
But an not able to use this database to create New OEM repository as the 
OEM config assistant says that the database already had a repository 
installed. If I try to drop the repository it gives me error as the 
repository is not actually present. Please tell me if anyone of u knows 
how to solve this problem. Do I have to reinstall the Oracle Software again.
Wolfgang Breitling
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Wolfgang Breitling
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

ok then i missed it. where is the overriding taking place? I saw a base constructor.. 
where was the 'override'?

 From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 08:30:30 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

 Hi

 The anonnymous block at the bottom of my email is just a little test driver.
 Basically, I don't use subtyping here. I just override the default
 constructor.
 If I don't implement a constructor at all, I would look like this:

 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
 (

   vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
   RETURN VARCHAR2

 ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
   BEGIN
 RETURN SELF.vVNR;
   END;
 END;

 And I would get a hidden, system provided default constructor.
 That would allow me to do the following (tested it):

 declare
   vVNR tVNR;
 begin
   vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
   dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
 end;

 And I would get the output:

 12345678901

 Unfortunately, that doesn't give me any control regarding the initialization
 of vVNR.
 Explanation: VNR = Versichertennummer, which is kind of the Swiss analog
 to the 
 US Social Security ID, only less unique ;).

 We don't use Object Relational features IN the database. Just plain
 relational tables.
 What we would like to use are Object Types to encapsulate certain things
 like the above 
 shown VNR to ensure data integrity during data conversion for PL/SQL
 programs using 
 these types. It's more of a guideline where the developers are constrained
 to use the 
 types for certain stuff.

 Enjoy your day,

 Stefan Jahnke
 Consultant
 BOV Aktiengesellschaft
 Tel.: +49 201/45 13-289
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.bov.de
 Abonnieren Sie unseren Newsletter: http://www.bov.de/enews

 Kosten senken - strategische IT-Ziele erreichen! BOV Microsoft Day am
 24.07.03 in Essen. Anmeldung unter http://www.bov.de/microsoft-day oder
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter
 fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir
 um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche
 Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen
 ausschliessen.

 As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be
 copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for
 your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline
 all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments
 given above.

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:05
 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Betreff: Re: Object Types in PL/SQL

 if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an anonymous
 block. in most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont see
 any subclassing here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 

 btw, are you using object oriented design in your database? How efficient do
 you find that? 

  From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 06:49:25 EDT
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Object Types in PL/SQL

  Hi list

  I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
  manual, it should be 
  possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I
 did
  that, Object Type 
  compiles without complaints:

  CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
  (

vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
RETURN SELF AS RESULT,

MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
RETURN VARCHAR2

  ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

  CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2)
RETURN SELF AS RESULT IS
BEGIN
  IF (LENGTH(piVNR)=11) THEN
SELF.vVNR := SUBSTR(piVNR,1,4) || '.' || SUBSTR(piVNR,5,4) || '.' ||
  SUBSTR(piVNR,9,3);
  ELSE
SELF.vVNR := 'invalid';
  END IF;
  RETURN;
END;

MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
BEGIN
  RETURN SELF.vVNR;
END;
  END;

  Now, everytime I want to create an object like this:

  declare
vVNR tVNR;
  begin
vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
  end;

  I get the following error message:

  ERROR at line 4:
  ORA-06550: line 4, column 15:
  PLS-00307: too many declarations of 'TVNR' match this call
  ORA-06550: line 4, column 3:
  PL/SQL: Statement ignored

  Looks to me like the PL/SQL enginge isn't able to distinguish the default
  constructor from the 
  overridden (my) version, since they have the same signature (of course).

  Any input ? I couldn't find ANY descenct hints in the fine manual or the
  Feuerstein book :(.

  TIA,

AW: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

2003-07-15 Thread Stefan Jahnke

Hi

The default constructor is always there, even if you don't provide one.
So, if you declare and implement a constructor that has the same signature 
as the default constructor (simply all the attributes as IN parameters, 
returning SELF), you automatically override the default constructor.
That is what I want to do. The object type compiles, but if I use it, 
PL/SQL tells me that it finds more than one constructors with that 
signature, which are the hidden default constructor and the one I 
implemented (I think). Now, that leaves me clueless, since it should be 
possible (manual says so) to override the default constructor from 9.2 on.

Any more ideas ?


Stefan Jahnke
Consultant
BOV Aktiengesellschaft
Tel.: +49 201/45 13-289
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.bov.de
Abonnieren Sie unseren Newsletter: http://www.bov.de/enews

Kosten senken - strategische IT-Ziele erreichen! BOV Microsoft Day am
24.07.03 in Essen. Anmeldung unter http://www.bov.de/microsoft-day oder
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter
fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir
um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche
Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen
ausschliessen.

As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be
copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for
your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline
all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments
given above.


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:44
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL


ok then i missed it. where is the overriding taking place? I saw a base
constructor.. where was the 'override'?
 
 From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 08:30:30 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL
 
 Hi
 
 The anonnymous block at the bottom of my email is just a little test
driver.
 Basically, I don't use subtyping here. I just override the default
 constructor.
 If I don't implement a constructor at all, I would look like this:
 
 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
 (
  
   vVNR VARCHAR2(14),
   
   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
   RETURN VARCHAR2

 ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;
 
 CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS
 
   MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
   BEGIN
 RETURN SELF.vVNR;
   END;
 END;
 
 And I would get a hidden, system provided default constructor.
 That would allow me to do the following (tested it):
 
 declare
   vVNR tVNR;
 begin
   vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
   dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
 end;
 
 And I would get the output:
 
 12345678901
 
 Unfortunately, that doesn't give me any control regarding the
initialization
 of vVNR.
 Explanation: VNR = Versichertennummer, which is kind of the Swiss analog
 to the 
 US Social Security ID, only less unique ;).
 
 We don't use Object Relational features IN the database. Just plain
 relational tables.
 What we would like to use are Object Types to encapsulate certain things
 like the above 
 shown VNR to ensure data integrity during data conversion for PL/SQL
 programs using 
 these types. It's more of a guideline where the developers are constrained
 to use the 
 types for certain stuff.
 
 Enjoy your day,
 
 Stefan Jahnke
 Consultant
 BOV Aktiengesellschaft
 Tel.: +49 201/45 13-289
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.bov.de
 Abonnieren Sie unseren Newsletter: http://www.bov.de/enews
 
 Kosten senken - strategische IT-Ziele erreichen! BOV Microsoft Day am
 24.07.03 in Essen. Anmeldung unter http://www.bov.de/microsoft-day oder
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter
 fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten
wir
 um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die
rechtliche
 Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen
 ausschliessen.
 
 As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be
 copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for
 your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline
 all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments
 given above.
 
 
 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:05
 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Betreff: Re: Object Types in PL/SQL
 
 
 if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an
anonymous
 block. in most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont
see
 any subclassing here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 
 
 btw, are you using object oriented design in

Re: Oracle security question

2003-07-15 Thread Don Yu

Ron,

I have urgent question. Because I want to shutdown my database, I login as
oracle and execute dbshut. But later I found that the process is very slow
so I realize that I should type shutdown immediate. Then, I use control-D to
stop shutdown command. And I re-execute shutdown immediate. Now the
shutdown command seems to take longer time to finish. Is there something
wrong or normal? Any comments are appreciated!
Thanks!


Don


Ron Rogers wrote:

 Don,
   The users need acces to the data that is in the database or what is
 the purpose of the database?
  I would change the privileges of the users to CREATE SESSION only
 and revoke all others. Then I would use ROLES that have select
 privileges on the tables that they need acces to. By creating roles and
 granting the role to a user the user can select from the tables. If
 different groups need acces to different tables you can create different
 roles and grant them as needed.
  Roles are an easy method of controlling acces to table data and if
 changes are needed then you change the role's privileges and all users
 of the role are effected.
 Ron

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/11/03 03:44PM 
 Hi,

 I have a security question about Oracle database. Recently I have
 taken
 full control an Oracle database in my department. Now I would like to
 make sure that no other people except myself can update data in that
 database. Can somebody tell me what it is necessary steps to do that?
 Any comments are highly appreciated. Thanks!

 Don

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Don Yu
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
 -
 To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

2003-07-15 Thread Nuno Souto

- Original Message - 
 That is what I want to do. The object type compiles, but if I use it, 
 PL/SQL tells me that it finds more than one constructors with that 
 signature, which are the hidden default constructor and the one I 
 implemented (I think). Now, that leaves me clueless, since it should be 
 possible (manual says so) to override the default constructor from 9.2 on.
 
 Any more ideas ?
 

I think the problem is that both the default constructor
and your custom one have the same signature.  Ie,
they both have the same parameters, which is the way
Oracle PL/SQL distinguishes between overloaded
function and procedure calls.

What you need is to add a fake variable to your constructor
so that it looks like this:

CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2, my_fake NUMBER) 

and then ignore the darn thing (do nothing with it).
That will make tVNR() constructor differ sufficiently 
from the default one so Oracle considers it an overload
for the default.  Don't forget that Oracle's default constructor
is STILL available when you define your own.  The only way
it gets distinguished is by the parameter list (name is 
the same or else it ain't a constructor for the type!).

BTW this works also in 8i, it's not just 9i.


Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:44
 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Betreff: Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL
 
 
 ok then i missed it. where is the overriding taking place? I saw a base
 constructor.. where was the 'override'?
  
  From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Hi
  
  The anonnymous block at the bottom of my email is just a little test
 driver.
  Basically, I don't use subtyping here. I just override the default
  constructor.
  If I don't implement a constructor at all, I would look like this:
  
  CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
  (
   
vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
RETURN VARCHAR2
 
  ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;
  
  CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS
  
MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
BEGIN
  RETURN SELF.vVNR;
END;
  END;
  
  And I would get a hidden, system provided default constructor.
  That would allow me to do the following (tested it):
  
  declare
vVNR tVNR;
  begin
vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
  end;
  
  And I would get the output:
  
  12345678901
  
  Unfortunately, that doesn't give me any control regarding the
 initialization
  of vVNR.
  Explanation: VNR = Versichertennummer, which is kind of the Swiss analog
  to the 
  US Social Security ID, only less unique ;).
  
  We don't use Object Relational features IN the database. Just plain
  relational tables.
  What we would like to use are Object Types to encapsulate certain things
  like the above 
  shown VNR to ensure data integrity during data conversion for PL/SQL
  programs using 
  these types. It's more of a guideline where the developers are constrained
  to use the 
  types for certain stuff.
  
  Enjoy your day,
  
  Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:05
  An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Betreff: Re: Object Types in PL/SQL
  
  
  if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an
 anonymous
  block. in most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont
 see
  any subclassing here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 
  
  btw, are you using object oriented design in your database? How efficient
 do
  you find that? 
   
   From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 06:49:25 EDT
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Object Types in PL/SQL
   
   Hi list
   
   I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
   manual, it should be 
   possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I
  did
   that, Object Type 
   compiles without complaints:
   
   CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
   (

 vVNR VARCHAR2(14),
 
 CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
 RETURN SELF AS RESULT,
 
 MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
 RETURN VARCHAR2
 
   ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;
   
   CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS
   
 CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2)
 RETURN SELF AS RESULT IS
 BEGIN
   IF (LENGTH(piVNR)=11) THEN
 SELF.vVNR := SUBSTR(piVNR,1,4) || '.' || SUBSTR(piVNR,5,4) || '.'
 ||
   SUBSTR(piVNR,9,3);
   ELSE
 SELF.vVNR := 'invalid';
   END IF;
   RETURN;
 END;
   
 MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
 BEGIN
   RETURN SELF.vVNR;
 END;
   END;
   
   Now, everytime I want to create an object like this:
   
   declare
 vVNR tVNR;
   begin
 vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
 dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
   end;
   
   I get the following error message:
   
   ERROR at

v$session question

2003-07-15 Thread Foelz.Frank

Hi all,
 
anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select privileges to a user ?
 
 
grant select on v$session to xyuser*
ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views
 

Cause: 
The keyword FILE is required in this context. 

 

Action: 
Check syntax, insert keyword FILE as required, and try again. 

 
ORA-02030 can only select from fixed tables/views 

 Frank Foelz  Ó¿Ò 
_
Scheidt  Bachmann GmbH
Gestaltung Parkhaussysteme
Breite Strasse 132
41238 Moenchengladbach

Phone  :  ++49 2166 / 266 - 837
Fax:  ++49 2166 / 266 - 615
e-mail :  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
URL:  http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/ 



 
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-- 
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RE: OEM Repository Problem

2003-07-15 Thread Munish Bajaj

Thanks Wolfgang,

The Solution provided by u was great and has worked.

Regards
Munish Bajaj

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 18:00
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is a shot in the dark, but try and delete (or rename) 
Oracle_Home\sysman\config\omsconfig.properties

At 10:14 PM 7/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Listers,

I had OEM repository on my database installed on my PC.

Accidentally I dropped the database. Now I have recreated the database. 
But an not able to use this database to create New OEM repository as the 
OEM config assistant says that the database already had a repository 
installed. If I try to drop the repository it gives me error as the 
repository is not actually present. Please tell me if anyone of u knows 
how to solve this problem. Do I have to reinstall the Oracle Software
again.

Wolfgang Breitling
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com

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Re: OT: unix shell script question

2003-07-15 Thread Garry Gillies

Try


DBNAME=PROD
LINE_PROD=100

CMD=echo \$LINE_$DBNAME
echo $CMD
eval $CMD






Dilip [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15/07/03 11:34
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:OT: unix shell script question


Hi List,

The requirement is as follows:

DBNAME=PROD ( 'DBNAME' variable contains value 'PROD' )

LINE_PROD=100 ( 'LINE_PROD' variable contains value 100 )

Now I want to echo the LINE_PROD variable using DBNAME variable.
e.g 
echo ${LINE_${DBNAME}} should return 100.

Is this possible and if yes, how ? I tried some ways but couldn't find any 
way.

Regards,
~Dilip






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RE: v$session question

2003-07-15 Thread Jamadagni, Rajendra

Title: RE: v$session question





grant select on sys.v_$session to xyuser
/


Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !



-Original Message-
From: Foelz.Frank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: v$session question



Hi all,

anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select privileges to a user ?


grant select on v$session to xyuser*
ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views



Cause: 
The keyword FILE is required in this context. 





Action: 
Check syntax, insert keyword FILE as required, and try again. 



ORA-02030 can only select from fixed tables/views 


 Frank Foelz Ó¿Ò 
_
Scheidt  Bachmann GmbH
Gestaltung Parkhaussysteme
Breite Strasse 132
41238 Moenchengladbach


Phone : ++49 2166 / 266 - 837
Fax: ++49 2166 / 266 - 615
e-mail : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
URL : http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/ 





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v$session question

2003-07-15 Thread Foelz.Frank

sorry, cut/copy/paste mismatch. I took the wrong error description.

again..

anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select privileges to a user ?
 
--- 
grant select on v$session to xyuser*
ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views
---
ORA-02030 can only select from fixed tables/views 
Cause: An operation other than SELECT on a fixed dynamic performance table
or view was attempted. It is only possible to select from fixed tables or
views. 
Action: Remove the fixed table or view name from the SELECT statement. 
---

But I must know, what user is doing things to a definite table !


 Frank 
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Re: Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

then the guy is correct. that is a weakness in oracle's object oriented model. in c++ 
and java, you can override signatures. its different then overloading. 

having to add an additional flag can be tedious in a large project. you might want to 
open a TAR on this? Id like to see what the tech support guys say. If you do, please 
post what they say. 

 From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 09:49:24 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

 - Original Message - 
  That is what I want to do. The object type compiles, but if I use it, 
  PL/SQL tells me that it finds more than one constructors with that 
  signature, which are the hidden default constructor and the one I 
  implemented (I think). Now, that leaves me clueless, since it should be 
  possible (manual says so) to override the default constructor from 9.2 on.

  Any more ideas ?

 I think the problem is that both the default constructor
 and your custom one have the same signature.  Ie,
 they both have the same parameters, which is the way
 Oracle PL/SQL distinguishes between overloaded
 function and procedure calls.

 What you need is to add a fake variable to your constructor
 so that it looks like this:

 CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2, my_fake NUMBER) 

 and then ignore the darn thing (do nothing with it).
 That will make tVNR() constructor differ sufficiently 
 from the default one so Oracle considers it an overload
 for the default.  Don't forget that Oracle's default constructor
 is STILL available when you define your own.  The only way
 it gets distinguished is by the parameter list (name is 
 the same or else it ain't a constructor for the type!).

 BTW this works also in 8i, it's not just 9i.

 Cheers
 Nuno Souto
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:44
  An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Betreff: Re: AW: Object Types in PL/SQL

  ok then i missed it. where is the overriding taking place? I saw a base
  constructor.. where was the 'override'?

   From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Hi

   The anonnymous block at the bottom of my email is just a little test
  driver.
   Basically, I don't use subtyping here. I just override the default
   constructor.
   If I don't implement a constructor at all, I would look like this:

   CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
   (

 vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

 MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
 RETURN VARCHAR2

   ) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

   CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

 MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
 BEGIN
   RETURN SELF.vVNR;
 END;
   END;

   And I would get a hidden, system provided default constructor.
   That would allow me to do the following (tested it):

   declare
 vVNR tVNR;
   begin
 vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
 dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
   end;

   And I would get the output:

   12345678901

   Unfortunately, that doesn't give me any control regarding the
  initialization
   of vVNR.
   Explanation: VNR = Versichertennummer, which is kind of the Swiss analog
   to the 
   US Social Security ID, only less unique ;).

   We don't use Object Relational features IN the database. Just plain
   relational tables.
   What we would like to use are Object Types to encapsulate certain things
   like the above 
   shown VNR to ensure data integrity during data conversion for PL/SQL
   programs using 
   these types. It's more of a guideline where the developers are constrained
   to use the 
   types for certain stuff.

   Enjoy your day,

   Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 14:05
   An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   Betreff: Re: Object Types in PL/SQL

   if im reading your code right... looks like your overriding in an
  anonymous
   block. in most OO languages overriding is done by a child class. i dont
  see
   any subclassing here? didnt they add sub-types and 'extends' to 9.2? 

   btw, are you using object oriented design in your database? How efficient
  do
   you find that? 

From: Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 06:49:25 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Object Types in PL/SQL

Hi list

I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
manual, it should be 
possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I
   did
that, Object Type 
compiles without complaints:

CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
(

  vVNR VARCHAR2(14),

  CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
  RETURN SELF AS RESULT,

  MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
  RETURN VARCHAR2

) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

CREATE OR REPLACE

Re: v$session question

v$session is a synonym.

all the v$ are really v_$. go to dba_views... see for yourself.

so grant on v_$. everyone gets nabbed by that one atleast once. 

 From: Foelz.Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 09:59:31 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: v$session question

 Hi all,

 anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select privileges to a user ?

 grant select on v$session to xyuser*
 ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views

 Cause: 
 The keyword FILE is required in this context. 

 Action: 
 Check syntax, insert keyword FILE as required, and try again. 

 ORA-02030 can only select from fixed tables/views 

  Frank Foelz  Ó¿Ò 
 _
 Scheidt  Bachmann GmbH
 Gestaltung Parkhaussysteme
 Breite Strasse 132
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RE: unix shell script question

2003-07-15 Thread Hitchman, Peter

Hi,
This works in ksh:

DBNAME=PROD 
LINE_PROD=500   
OTHER=\${LINE_${DBNAME}}
eval echo $OTHER

Regards

Pete

[END]

-Original Message-
Sent: 15 July 2003 11:35
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List,

The requirement is as follows:

DBNAME=PROD ( 'DBNAME' variable contains value 'PROD' )

LINE_PROD=100 ( 'LINE_PROD' variable contains value 100 )

Now I want to echo the LINE_PROD variable using DBNAME variable.
e.g 
echo ${LINE_${DBNAME}} should return 100.

Is this possible and if yes, how ? I tried some ways but couldn't find any
way.

Regards,
~Dilip



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RE: v$session question

2003-07-15 Thread Nigel Bishop

GRANT SELECT ON V_$SESSION TO user;

Regards

Nigel Bishop
Snr. Oracle DBA
ioko

Tel DDI:  +44 (0) 1904 435 458
Mobile:   +44 (0) 7881 624 386
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-Original Message-
Sent: 15 July 2003 15:00
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi all,
 
anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select privileges to a user ?
 
 
grant select on v$session to xyuser*
ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views
 

Cause: 
The keyword FILE is required in this context. 

 

Action: 
Check syntax, insert keyword FILE as required, and try again. 

 
ORA-02030 can only select from fixed tables/views 

 Frank Foelz  Ó¿Ò 
_
Scheidt  Bachmann GmbH
Gestaltung Parkhaussysteme
Breite Strasse 132
41238 Moenchengladbach

Phone  :  ++49 2166 / 266 - 837
Fax:  ++49 2166 / 266 - 615
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mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
URL:  http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de http://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/ 



 
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AW: v$session question

2003-07-15 Thread Foelz.Frank

that helped, tnx a lot !

 Frank 


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet am: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 16:15
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: Re: v$session question

v$session is a synonym.

all the v$ are really v_$. go to dba_views... see for yourself.

so grant on v_$. everyone gets nabbed by that one atleast once. 
 
 From: Foelz.Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 09:59:31 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: v$session question
 
 Hi all,
  
 anyone able to tell me, how to grant v$session select 
privileges to a user ?
  
  
 grant select on v$session to xyuser*
 ORA-02030: can only select from fixed tables/views
  
 
 Cause: 
 The keyword FILE is required in this context. 
--- 
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Herzlichen Dank für Ihre Unterstützung! 
  
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Re: Perl Question

2003-07-15 Thread Peter Barnett

Jared,

You came to the same conclusion I did.  Since this is
the first perl script I have written for production I
still have a lot to learn.  I was thinking that I had
missed something painfully obvious.

Thanks for the help.  Hope all is well by you.

Pete


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Pete,
 
 Even as a rabid Perl fanatic, I still use KSH to
 install statspack.
 
 I just modified the stock scripts a bit so they will
 run without user 
 input.
 
 You can do it in Perl, but ksh is probably the tool
 for this job.
 
 Jared
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Peter Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  07/14/2003 03:49 PM
  Please respond to ORACLE-L
 
  
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 cc: 
 Subject:Perl Question
 
 
 I am mucking through my first real perl script. 
 When
 it is finished it will install statspack on all of
 the
 database throughout the company.  That's a gob of
 databases!
 
 To run in batch mode statspack requires two define
 statements:
 
define default_tablespace = tablespace_name
define temporary_tablespace = temp_name
 
 Does anyone know the syntax to get these two
 statements to work?
 
 If not, I suppose the individual scripts can be
 called
 individually after the perfstat user is created. 
 Either that or chicken out of the perl stuff and go
 back to tried and true shell scripting.
 
 
 
 
 
 =
 Pete Barnett
 Lead Database Administrator
 The Regence Group
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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=
Pete Barnett
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The Regence Group
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Re: Oracle security question

2003-07-15 Thread Ron Rogers

Don,
 A normal shutdown will wait for all of the users to complete there
work and shutdown when the users are off the system. A shutdown
immediate wait for the current transactions to complete and not allow
any more to start before shutting down. A shutdown abort does just
that, I stops all transactions and shutdown the database. A shutdown
abort  is best followed by a startup restricted and then a shutdown
immediate to clear up the database. If you check your alert log you will
find that the database does a recovery to clean it's self up after a
shutdown abort.
 When you do an non normal action such as a CTRL-D when shutting down
Oracle might be cleaning it's self up or clearing the temp that takes
time to accomplish.  Take a look at the actions that are going on in the
database with temp. Perhaps that is why the shutdown is taking time. A
user could be performing a long transaction that has to complete or
rollback before Oracle shuts down. There are many possibilities for the
lengthy time to shut down.
Select count(*) from DBA_EXTENTS where segment_type ='temporary';
will give you the number of extents that are being shrunk if temp is
one of your problems. The number will decrease as SMON does it's work.
 I would also edit the dbshut command to shutdown immediate rather
than the plain shutdown.
 Check the OS to see what processes are consuming the time. That can
lead you to the time comsumption. Remember time is relative to the
viewer.
Ron

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 09:29AM 
Ron,

I have urgent question. Because I want to shutdown my database, I login
as
oracle and execute dbshut. But later I found that the process is very
slow
so I realize that I should type shutdown immediate. Then, I use
control-D to
stop shutdown command. And I re-execute shutdown immediate. Now the
shutdown command seems to take longer time to finish. Is there
something
wrong or normal? Any comments are appreciated!
Thanks!


Don


Ron Rogers wrote:

 Don,
   The users need acces to the data that is in the database or what
is
 the purpose of the database?
  I would change the privileges of the users to CREATE SESSION only
 and revoke all others. Then I would use ROLES that have select
 privileges on the tables that they need acces to. By creating roles
and
 granting the role to a user the user can select from the tables. If
 different groups need acces to different tables you can create
different
 roles and grant them as needed.
  Roles are an easy method of controlling acces to table data and if
 changes are needed then you change the role's privileges and all
users
 of the role are effected.
 Ron

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/11/03 03:44PM 
 Hi,

 I have a security question about Oracle database. Recently I have
 taken
 full control an Oracle database in my department. Now I would like
to
 make sure that no other people except myself can update data in that
 database. Can somebody tell me what it is necessary steps to do
that?
 Any comments are highly appreciated. Thanks!

 Don

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Please see the

should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve performance 
improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O points.

Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put them on 
seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle actually 
accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful seperate indexes from 
tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower I/O contention.

Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading? 

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RE: Object Types in PL/SQL

2003-07-15 Thread Pardee, Roy E

This doesn't answer your question directly, but if you aren't able to override the 
constructor explicitly, you can probably create a static function that creates, 
initializes  returns a tVNR as you would like it.

HTH,

-Roy

Roy Pardee
Programmer/Analyst/DBA
SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT
Extension 8487

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi list

I have a problem regardint PL/SQL Object Types. According to the fine
manual, it should be 
possible to override the default constructor (I'm on 9.2.0.3.0 Win2k). I did
that, Object Type 
compiles without complaints:

CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE tVNR AS OBJECT
(
 
  vVNR VARCHAR2(14),
  
  CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2) 
  RETURN SELF AS RESULT,
  
  MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR 
  RETURN VARCHAR2
  
) INSTANTIABLE FINAL;

CREATE OR REPLACE TYPE BODY tVNR AS

  CONSTRUCTOR FUNCTION tVNR(piVNR VARCHAR2)
  RETURN SELF AS RESULT IS
  BEGIN
IF (LENGTH(piVNR)=11) THEN
  SELF.vVNR := SUBSTR(piVNR,1,4) || '.' || SUBSTR(piVNR,5,4) || '.' ||
SUBSTR(piVNR,9,3);
ELSE
  SELF.vVNR := 'invalid';
END IF;
RETURN;
  END;

  MEMBER FUNCTION getVNR RETURN VARCHAR2 IS
  BEGIN
RETURN SELF.vVNR;
  END;
END;

Now, everytime I want to create an object like this:

declare
  vVNR tVNR;
begin
  vVNR := new tVNR('12345678901');
  dbms_output.put_line(vVNR.getVNR());
end;

I get the following error message:

ERROR at line 4:
ORA-06550: line 4, column 15:
PLS-00307: too many declarations of 'TVNR' match this call
ORA-06550: line 4, column 3:
PL/SQL: Statement ignored

Looks to me like the PL/SQL enginge isn't able to distinguish the default
constructor from the 
overridden (my) version, since they have the same signature (of course).

Any input ? I couldn't find ANY descenct hints in the fine manual or the
Feuerstein book :(.

TIA,
Stefan


 
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Re: Oracle security question

2003-07-15 Thread Arup Nanda

I'm not Ron; but I'll take a stab at this.

The shutdown immediate is hanging probably because there are several
transactions that are rolling back. The database is not going to close till
all have rolled back completely.

HTH.

Arup Nanda
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:29 AM


 Ron,

 I have urgent question. Because I want to shutdown my database, I login as
 oracle and execute dbshut. But later I found that the process is very slow
 so I realize that I should type shutdown immediate. Then, I use control-D
to
 stop shutdown command. And I re-execute shutdown immediate. Now the
 shutdown command seems to take longer time to finish. Is there something
 wrong or normal? Any comments are appreciated!
 Thanks!


 Don


 Ron Rogers wrote:

  Don,
The users need acces to the data that is in the database or what is
  the purpose of the database?
   I would change the privileges of the users to CREATE SESSION only
  and revoke all others. Then I would use ROLES that have select
  privileges on the tables that they need acces to. By creating roles and
  granting the role to a user the user can select from the tables. If
  different groups need acces to different tables you can create different
  roles and grant them as needed.
   Roles are an easy method of controlling acces to table data and if
  changes are needed then you change the role's privileges and all users
  of the role are effected.
  Ron
 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/11/03 03:44PM 
  Hi,
 
  I have a security question about Oracle database. Recently I have
  taken
  full control an Oracle database in my department. Now I would like to
  make sure that no other people except myself can update data in that
  database. Can somebody tell me what it is necessary steps to do that?
  Any comments are highly appreciated. Thanks!
 
  Don
 
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
operations people crap I get)

Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
size purposes as well.


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
 performance improvements by seperating indexes and tables across
 multiple I/O points.
 
 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you
 put them on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
 
 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That
 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be
 useful seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this
 wont lower I/O contention.
 
 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
 leading? 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

R,

Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from the
tables they belong to.

Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse architect did
was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun system)
are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all files
in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC cache
available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from data
are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM disk -
where all disk IO is spread across all disk.

If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep indexes
and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have enough
disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat anyway.

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve performance
improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O points.

Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put them
on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower
I/O contention.

Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading? 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: unix shell script question

2003-07-15 Thread Stephen Lee


Something else for people who are bored:
If I may ASS-U-ME that your ultimate goal is to have variables like:

LINE_THIS
LINE_THAT
LINE_THE_OTHER_THING

and you want to be able to change what is after the LINE part, if you have
genuine ksh93, and you like playing around with scripting stuff, then you
can try playing around with associative arrays.
For example:

LINE=([THIS]='ABC' [THAT]='XYZ' [THE_OTHER_THING]='HELLO WORLD')
X='THE_OTHER_THING'
echo ${LINE[$X]}
HELLO WORLD
X='THIS'
echo ${LINE[$X]}
ABC
X='THAT'
echo ${LINE[$X]}
XYZ

I think you must define the associative array as a single command; i.e. you
can't do
LINE=([THIS]='ABC')
LINE=([THAT]='XYZ')
because you will only have ${LINE[THAT]}

Note that, as far as I know, this stuff works only with ksh93.  Ksh88 is
probably much more predominant on non-Linux, and I think pdksh (public
domain ksh) -- which is useless for scripting -- shows up on Linux.  But you
can download and build ksh93.  Make sure you put the (){}[] characters in
the right places.

 -Original Message-
 
 Hi List,
 
 The requirement is as follows:
 
 DBNAME=PROD ( 'DBNAME' variable contains value 'PROD' )
 
 LINE_PROD=100 ( 'LINE_PROD' variable contains value 100 )
 
 Now I want to echo the LINE_PROD variable using DBNAME variable.
 e.g 
 echo ${LINE_${DBNAME}} should return 100.
 
 Is this possible and if yes, how ? I tried some ways but 
 couldn't find any way.
 
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-- 
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Bye all

2003-07-15 Thread Veeraraju_Mareddi

Dear Friends,

I am going to unsubscribe from this list. It was a good journey towards
learning.

Thanks
Rajuveera
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RE: Oracle pricing question

2003-07-15 Thread Boivin, Patrice J

never mind, 4 seconds after I sent the e-mail I saw the items listed on a
web page...

sigh.

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'


Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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Oracle pricing question

2003-07-15 Thread Boivin, Patrice J

Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Gogala, Mladen

Actually, there is a performance benefit, but is almost negligible.
Performance benefit comes from the fact that indexes are usually read
by using db_file_sequential_read, which is, as I was told by 3 or 4
wise men without any gifts, a single block read. Having vast majority 
of I/O being short allows, at least in theory, the controller to better 
optimize the incoming I/O requests, thus achieving better service times.
I must say that I haven't actually seen the benefits myself but my faith 
is rock solid and I'll continue to separate data from indexes.
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles?


I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
operations people crap I get)

Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
size purposes as well.


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
 performance improvements by seperating indexes and tables across
 multiple I/O points.
 
 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you
 put them on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
 
 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That
 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be
 useful seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this
 wont lower I/O contention.
 
 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
 leading? 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Daniel Fink

I'll agree with Rachel's methodology and add another consideration.
Look at separating constraint indexes (primary keys, unique, perhaps even foreign 
keys) from performance indexes. If you find resource constraints on backups 
(time/disk), you can safely ignore the performance indexes. The recovery impact is 
that the application/sql may run slower without the indexes, but the data and 
constraints are intact. AFter the system is up and running, you can rebuild the 
indexes.

Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
 I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
 maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
 performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
 given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
 many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
 get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
 girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
 set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
 operations people crap I get)
 
 Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
 offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
 rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
 different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
 comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
 size purposes as well.begin:vcard 
n:Fink;Daniel
tel;cell:303.808.3282
tel;work:303.272.3225
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
adr:;;
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:DB Services Lead
x-mozilla-cpt:;-4832
fn:Daniel Fink
end:vcard

Re: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA Handbook' or was it a 
different text? 

 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

 R,

 Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
 time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from the
 tables they belong to.

 Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse architect did
 was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun system)
 are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all files
 in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC cache
 available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from data
 are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM disk -
 where all disk IO is spread across all disk.

 If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep indexes
 and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have enough
 disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat anyway.

 hope this helps.

 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve performance
 improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O points.

 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put them
 on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
 actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
 seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower
 I/O contention.

 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading? 

 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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 To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
 the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Garry Gillies

It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like a rant.

oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially

Is it just me or is this blindingly obvious? 
You cannot access the table data until you have completed accessing the 
index data
because the index data contains the location of the table data.

During an indexed query on a single table the index will be accessed, then 
the table, 
then the index,then the table,  then the index,then the table  then the 
index,then the table.
If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of time will be 
taken up by
head seek movement.
If they are on the different disks then the index heads can locate their 
data and stay
there - and the data heads can locate their data and stay there.
Less head movement, less wasted time.

That is the argument for what it is worth. Real life is of course vastly 
more complex than
this and we are swimming in very muddy waters, which is why there is so 
much
argument on the subject (raid salesmen - spit).

Thanks for the vent

Garry Gillies






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15/07/03 15:49
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?


There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve 
performance improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple 
I/O points.

Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put 
them on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle 
actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful 
seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower 
I/O contention.

Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading? 








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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Stephen Lee


Steroids, weight lifting, and a flattop hair cut (orange or green).  After
two years of this, try talking to the storage guys while holding a beer in
one hand and a Polish sausage in the other.  If you can manage a good belch
during the conversation, even better.

(Are you a visual person?)

 -Original Message-
 get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
 girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
 set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
 operations people crap I get)
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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

I disagree with the concept of recovery not including some indexes because
they can be rebuilt later.  To me, that's like going to a gas station and
only filling the tank half-way because I can get more gas later.  You are
saving small amounts of time up front, but will pay for it later on.

I prefer to restore a totally whole database (when needed), and not having
to rely on my memory to rebuild some indexes that we purposly chose not to
back up.  Just seems silly to me.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles?


I'll agree with Rachel's methodology and add another consideration.
Look at separating constraint indexes (primary keys, unique, perhaps even
foreign keys) from performance indexes. If you find resource constraints on
backups (time/disk), you can safely ignore the performance indexes. The
recovery impact is that the application/sql may run slower without the
indexes, but the data and constraints are intact. AFter the system is up and
running, you can rebuild the indexes.

Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
 I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
 maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
 performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
 given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
 many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
 get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
 girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
 set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
 operations people crap I get)
 
 Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
 offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
 rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
 different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
 comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
 size purposes as well.
-- 
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Oracle has out-smarted me again.

2003-07-15 Thread Thomas Day


Interim Patch: 2878462
DATE:  May 7, 2003


Platform Patch for : Microsoft Windows NT
  Microsoft Windows 2000
  Microsoft Windows XP
Product Version #  : 2.2.0.18.0
Product Patched    : UNIVERSAL INSTALLER


Patch Installation Instructions : ( this assumes that you have already
unzipped the file you downloaded from metalink):

   1.  Extract the contents of the file oui220180_nt.jar into a newly
  created directory using
      C: jar -xvf oui220180_nt.jar
     or
      C: unzip oui220180_nt.jar
     or
      You can use the winzip graphical utility as well.

   2. Change directory to Disk1\install\win32 as :
      cd  Disk1\install\win32

   1. Run setup.exe from Disk1\install\win32 directory as C: setup.exe:.
  This will launch the Install session for installing OUI 2.2.0.18.0 to
  the current  Oracle environment. After the installation completes,
  you can verify that the OUI version  is 2.2.0.18.0 by invoking Oracle
  Universal Installer from  Windows  Program Menu and clicking on the
  About Oracle Universal Installer button .
   
*
   Having R'ed the old FM to a fare-thee-well, how is one supposed to make
  the above instructions work?  Following them slavishly will
  re-install the current version of the OUI, since the products.jar
  hasn't changed.  OUI doesn't recognize oui220180_nt.jar as a
  substitute for products.jar.

   Anyone who has had any success in installing OUI 2.2.0.18.0 on Win2K,
  could you share how that happened?


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failed to archive

2003-07-15 Thread AK





I see a lot of "failed to archive " messages in 
alert.log . But finally the log gets archived . Is it due overloaded archiver ? 


this is from alert log.

ARC0: Beginning to archive log# 3 seq# 
87568ARC0: Failed to archive log# 3 seq# 87568ARC0: Beginning to archive 
log# 2 seq# 87569Mon Jul 14 11:36:23 2003ARC4: Completed archiving log# 
3 seq# 87568

-ak 

ocp dba 8i

RE: Oracle pricing question

2003-07-15 Thread Gogala, Mladen

That's a big sale, something like your friendly neighborhood
Dodge sale. You can get Oracle Ram, with world's most powerful
V8 engine and $3000 cashback with 0.7 APR. All bells and whistles
like the Spatial Option, Transparent Gateways and Advanced Networking
are included.

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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RE: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate dataf

2003-07-15 Thread Freeman Robert - IL

For a given statements execution, running in serial, you will not find an
index and a table being accessed in parallel. Thus, there is no contention,
for a given statement, between the tables and indexes accessed by that
statement. Thus, one could argue the merits of not needing to seperate
indexes and data in a low concurrency environment.

OTOH, high concurrency leads to hot blocks, which often leads to a
requirement of distributing IO. In this case, seperating indexes and data
may be one step in that direction. 

RAID technologies, if properly configured, can eliminate some of the risk
from co-location of data of course but in the end there is no substitute
for carefully laid out data.

RF 

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 7/15/2003 10:29 AM
datafiles

does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA Handbook' or
was it a different text? 

 
 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate
datafiles
 
 R,
 
 Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
 time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from
the
 tables they belong to.
 
 Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse
architect did
 was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun
system)
 are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all
files
 in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC
cache
 available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from
data
 are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM
disk -
 where all disk IO is spread across all disk.
 
 If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep
indexes
 and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have
enough
 disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat
anyway.
 
 hope this helps.
 
 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
performance
 improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O
points.
 
 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put
them
 on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
 
 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
 actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
 seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont
lower
 I/O contention.
 
 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
leading? 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

if you keep a repository of all your indexes or have the create index statements on 
files in the file system.. that would solve the memory problem.

oracle designer and erwin have these capabilities. 

in some cases would it be better to recovery without indexes first so the users will 
have some access to data, then build the indexes while the instance is online? 

 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:39:32 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

 I disagree with the concept of recovery not including some indexes because
 they can be rebuilt later.  To me, that's like going to a gas station and
 only filling the tank half-way because I can get more gas later.  You are
 saving small amounts of time up front, but will pay for it later on.

 I prefer to restore a totally whole database (when needed), and not having
 to rely on my memory to rebuild some indexes that we purposly chose not to
 back up.  Just seems silly to me.

 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles?

 I'll agree with Rachel's methodology and add another consideration.
 Look at separating constraint indexes (primary keys, unique, perhaps even
 foreign keys) from performance indexes. If you find resource constraints on
 backups (time/disk), you can safely ignore the performance indexes. The
 recovery impact is that the application/sql may run slower without the
 indexes, but the data and constraints are intact. AFter the system is up and
 running, you can rebuild the indexes.

 Rachel Carmichael wrote:

  I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
  maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
  performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
  given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
  many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
  get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
  girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
  set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
  operations people crap I get)

  Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
  offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
  rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
  different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
  comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
  size purposes as well.
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
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Re: Oracle pricing question

2003-07-15 Thread Ron Rogers

Patrice,
 The listing I have 09-06-2002, has separate prices for the options you
listed. Prices are for named users license and Processor license.
There might be a newer price list out but I haven't found it yet. The
prices I show are 
EE 800/40,000
Spatial 200/10,000
Advanced Security 200/10,000
Label Security 200/10,
Data Mining 400/20,000
OLAP 400/20,000
Partitionong 200/10,000
RAC 400/20,000

Ron


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 11:14AM 
Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE.

I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed
anywhere.

Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with
the EE
license now?

That would be nice.

: )

Patrice.
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Daniel Fink

Tom,
I prefer to backup the whole database, but in some situations that I have 
encountered, it is not possible. If you look at the ratio of backups to recoveries, 
the savings can be substantial. As part of the backup/recovery documentation, the 
scripts to rebuild (actually the physical location of said scripts) the indexes are 
included as part of the process.
At one client, the monthly load window for a data warehouse was insufficient 
to be able to perform a full backup. By skipping the performance indexes, we were able 
to make the window. At another, the backup processes and dedicated disk were too small 
due to a lack of proper planning. It took less than a week to move and rebuild the 
indexes and we were able to backup the data and constraint indexes.
Obviously, neither of these situations was ideal. In fact, the backup 
modification was purely a band-aid solution, but it allowed us to focus on backing up 
the critical components successfully.

Daniel Fink

Mercadante, Thomas F wrote:
 
 I disagree with the concept of recovery not including some indexes because
 they can be rebuilt later.  To me, that's like going to a gas station and
 only filling the tank half-way because I can get more gas later.  You are
 saving small amounts of time up front, but will pay for it later on.
 
 I prefer to restore a totally whole database (when needed), and not having
 to rely on my memory to rebuild some indexes that we purposly chose not to
 back up.  Just seems silly to me.
 
 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professionalbegin:vcard 
n:Fink;Daniel
tel;cell:303.808.3282
tel;work:303.272.3225
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
adr:;;
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:DB Services Lead
x-mozilla-cpt:;-4832
fn:Daniel Fink
end:vcard

RE: RE: should you separate indexes from tables in separate dataf

2003-07-15 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

R,
   My personal theory on where this started was benchmarking. Before the
Oracle Wait Interface was developed, about the only hard-core information
you could get on tuning came as a result of people running benchmarks. If
you benchmark a batch program by itself that uses an index to access a
table, you will get much better performance if you place the index and table
on separate devices. 
Now, as has been pointed out, in a busy multi-user system with many
users, many tables and indexes, you shouldn't just put the indexes on
separate devices and call it Miller time. You should observe the actual
usage at a time when performance is critical (Cary Millsap does a nice job
of describing this, although he focuses on finding critical applications),
look for devices that are most heavily used, and move data files accordingly
to spread the load. If you sill feel you must keep the table and indexes
separate, you can criss-cross, i.e. put table A on device A and index A on
device B, then table B on device B and index B on device A.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles


does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA Handbook' or was
it a different text? 

 
 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles
 
 R,
 
 Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
 time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from the
 tables they belong to.
 
 Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse architect
did
 was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun
system)
 are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all
files
 in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC cache
 available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from data
 are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM disk
-
 where all disk IO is spread across all disk.
 
 If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep
indexes
 and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have enough
 disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat anyway.
 
 hope this helps.
 
 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
performance
 improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O points.
 
 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put
them
 on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
 
 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
 actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
 seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower
 I/O contention.
 
 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading?

 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

Hi!

In some environments you just have to get some functions of database back
online ASAP and deal with other issues (like reporting performance or not
critical end users) later on.

OTOH, my experience with OLTP environments has shown that if you when you
lose performance indexes and try to use your database in full power, it
just gets too damn slow anyway, so it's better to do the recovery. Not to
mention, that if you got huge indexes, it's usually cheaper to restore 
recover the datafiles than build the index from scratch.

Tanel.

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:39 PM


 I disagree with the concept of recovery not including some indexes because
 they can be rebuilt later.  To me, that's like going to a gas station
and
 only filling the tank half-way because I can get more gas later.  You
are
 saving small amounts of time up front, but will pay for it later on.

 I prefer to restore a totally whole database (when needed), and not having
 to rely on my memory to rebuild some indexes that we purposly chose not to
 back up.  Just seems silly to me.

 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles?


 I'll agree with Rachel's methodology and add another consideration.
 Look at separating constraint indexes (primary keys, unique, perhaps even
 foreign keys) from performance indexes. If you find resource constraints
on
 backups (time/disk), you can safely ignore the performance indexes. The
 recovery impact is that the application/sql may run slower without the
 indexes, but the data and constraints are intact. AFter the system is up
and
 running, you can rebuild the indexes.

 Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
  I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
  maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
  performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
  given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
  many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
  get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
  girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
  set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
  operations people crap I get)
 
  Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
  offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
  rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
  different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
  comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
  size purposes as well.
 --
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Nuno Souto

- Original Message - 

 I must say that I haven't actually seen the benefits myself but my faith 
 is rock solid and I'll continue to separate data from indexes.

Don't want to debate faith...  However, the technical side I can.  ;)

The practice of separating indexes and tables into individual
tablespaces comes from very early in the history of databases,
as many here know.  It made sense then in terms of performance, 
when databases were relatively small and the number of objects 
and users in a database was also small.  Besides, in those days
disks were discrete and controllers controlled each disk 
separately.  It was easy to separate loads, for those who
could be bothered and knew the arcane arts of disk partitioning
and file system creation.

Nowadays with databases of thousands of tables and indexes,
with disk farms and multiple disk strings and monster
caches and disk arrays and logical volume managers, it makes 
no sense whatsoever to separate tables from indexes 
*FROM THE PURE PERFORMANCE POINT OF VIEW*.

However from the maintenance and management point of view,
it makes a lot of sense.  If you ever want to separate
indexes to a different disk, it's infinitely easier to
just move a set of datafiles making up a tablespace than 
to have to create tablespaces, move indexes, blah blah.
In addition indexes tend to have different allocation patterns 
than tables, even in LMT.  It makes sense to separate them
from that point of view.

There is another consideration which you brushed on:
You normally don't want to mix the type of I/O for indexes 
(small, discrete blocks) from the potential stringed reads 
of a full table scan.  They have different characteristics
and cause all sorts of different I/O prioritization at controller
and cache level.  As such, they should not reside in the same 
logical device.  This means in effect: not the same tablespace.
Having said that, all sorts of tricks are possible at LVM level
to avoid this even in single tablespace or single file system.

But once again: this is all very relative and highly dependent
on the type of database and its use, type of hardware, etc.

Bottom line: separate if you feel comfortable doing so.  You do 
NOT have to move the separate tablespaces into different disk 
devices: it all depends on I/O patterns, configuration, load
management and so on.  Analyze I/O patterns and loads, find 
the bottleneck (if there is one!) and solve it. 

Do not do things just because someone says they should/should not
be done.  And that includes the above. ;)

Try and apply a one size fits all policy to your work and 
sooner or later you'll be replaced by a program or outsourced.  
You are a DBA: think.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

Hi!

There's not just head movement involved, there is disk rotational latency as
well, and you have to cope with it whether even if your disk reading heads
are in the same place.

But more importantly, as Rachel already stated, that if you got multi-user
environment (as a usual Oracle environment is), then you won't get no real
benefit from separating data  indexes on different disks, because disk
heads will never be there where you leave them, there's always someone else
who wants to read or write something.

Tanel.

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:39 PM


 It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like a rant.

 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially

 Is it just me or is this blindingly obvious?
 You cannot access the table data until you have completed accessing the
 index data
 because the index data contains the location of the table data.

 During an indexed query on a single table the index will be accessed, then
 the table,
 then the index,then the table,  then the index,then the table  then the
 index,then the table.
 If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of time will be
 taken up by
 head seek movement.
 If they are on the different disks then the index heads can locate their
 data and stay
 there - and the data heads can locate their data and stay there.
 Less head movement, less wasted time.

 That is the argument for what it is worth. Real life is of course vastly
 more complex than
 this and we are swimming in very muddy waters, which is why there is so
 much
 argument on the subject (raid salesmen - spit).

 Thanks for the vent

 Garry Gillies






 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15/07/03 15:49
 Please respond to ORACLE-L


 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 cc:
 Subject:should you seperate indexes from tables in
seperate datafiles?


 There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
 performance improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple
 I/O points.

 Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put
 them on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

 Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
 actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
 seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower
 I/O contention.

 Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading?








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Re: Bye all

2003-07-15 Thread Ron Rogers

Rajuveera,
 I hope that you find your continuing journey as a learning experince
as well.
Live long and prosper.
Ron   mª¿ªm

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 11:10AM 
Dear Friends,

I am going to unsubscribe from this list. It was a good journey
towards
learning.

Thanks
Rajuveera
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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Gudmundur Bjarni Josepsson

 It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like an ant.

Hmmm.

 During an indexed query on a single table the index will be 
 accessed, then  the table,  then the index,then the table, 
 then the index,then the table then the index,then the table.

Assuming you get 4 rows returned :)

 If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of 
 time will be taken up by head seek movement.
 If they are on the different disks then the index heads can 
 locate their  data and stay  there - and the data heads can 
 locate their data and stay  there. Less head movement, less wasted
time.

I would understand this if I had one index and one table.  On a busy
system with many users wouldn't the heads move, anyway, to serve queries
that used other indexes and tables?

Gudmundur


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RE: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate dataf

2003-07-15 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

thanks for the dis  :)

My experience with these types of recovery scenarios has been that the
application *needs* the indexes that are being rebuilt.  So user access is
s slow that I should not have allowed the users back until all the
indexes were rebuilt.  The end result being that the recovery really is not
complete until everything is done.  Obviously, a better evaluation of
indexes could have been performed.  But my conclusion was to backup and
restore everything - including indexes.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles


if you keep a repository of all your indexes or have the create index
statements on files in the file system.. that would solve the memory
problem.

oracle designer and erwin have these capabilities. 

in some cases would it be better to recovery without indexes first so the
users will have some access to data, then build the indexes while the
instance is online? 
 
 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:39:32 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles
 
 I disagree with the concept of recovery not including some indexes because
 they can be rebuilt later.  To me, that's like going to a gas station
and
 only filling the tank half-way because I can get more gas later.  You
are
 saving small amounts of time up front, but will pay for it later on.
 
 I prefer to restore a totally whole database (when needed), and not having
 to rely on my memory to rebuild some indexes that we purposly chose not to
 back up.  Just seems silly to me.
 
 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles?
 
 
 I'll agree with Rachel's methodology and add another consideration.
 Look at separating constraint indexes (primary keys, unique, perhaps even
 foreign keys) from performance indexes. If you find resource constraints
on
 backups (time/disk), you can safely ignore the performance indexes. The
 recovery impact is that the application/sql may run slower without the
 indexes, but the data and constraints are intact. AFter the system is up
and
 running, you can rebuild the indexes.
 
 Rachel Carmichael wrote:
  
  I separate indexes and tables into different tablespaces for
  maintenance purposes, not for performance, as there really is no
  performance benefit if you are on a system with multiple users. At any
  given time, many users will be doing queries that read the indexes and
  many users will be doing queries that read the tables. Besides, I don't
  get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now now little
  girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the disks are
  set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male data center
  operations people crap I get)
  
  Maintenance: if I lose an index tablespace datafile, I can just
  offline/drop the tablespace and recreate it and the indexes within it
  rather than do recovery.  My indexes and my tables tend to have
  different extent size requirements (most of my indexes are NOT
  comprised of all columns in the table) so I separate them for extent
  size purposes as well.
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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how do I test a restore of a raw device?

2003-07-15 Thread Gurelei

Hi all:

I'm testing a restore of a database file (tools TS).
The datafile is a raw device and I have link to that
raw evice in my links directory. Im running Oracle
9203 and UNIX 5l. And the problem I ran into is as
follows. If I drop the logical link , the rman
restores
the data as a datafile. If I remove the link and
recreate it pointing to another raw device, the
restore
fails bacause the file exist. How do I force rman
to restore the data in the raw device form? IS there a
way to do it?

thanks

gene

__
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Daniel Fink

I may be way off base here, so any gurus please correct me with a gentle slap to the 
back of the head...

Index and table access is not as simple as index entry..table row..index entry..table 
row..etc. I just ran a quick test (which may not be represntative and is using the 
primary key which can be understood as the row number in physical order of the data 
blocks) and I found (using the sequence of wait events) that there was substantial 
access to the index datafiles initially, followed by substantial access to the data 
datafiles. Then another single access to index, multiple access to data, single
access to index, multiple access to data. It seems to me that this pattern is read 
several index blocks, then access several data blocks, read several index blocks, 
access several data blocks. This may be due to the sequential nature of the pk in the 
data blocks. It seems that the most efficient algorithm is to read enough index blocks 
to set up a list of data blocks to read, then go get them. Since you have the index 
block pinned, don't waste any resource in releasing the pin to pin the data
blocks, then repin the index block.

The other issue is that indexes can be accessed using multiblock reads (index fast 
full scan) and tables can be indexed using single block reads (table access by rowid). 


Garry Gillies wrote:
 
 It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like a rant.
 
 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially
 
 Is it just me or is this blindingly obvious?
 You cannot access the table data until you have completed accessing the
 index data
 because the index data contains the location of the table data.
 
 During an indexed query on a single table the index will be accessed, then
 the table,
 then the index,then the table,  then the index,then the table  then the
 index,then the table.
 If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of time will be
 taken up by
 head seek movement.
 If they are on the different disks then the index heads can locate their
 data and stay
 there - and the data heads can locate their data and stay there.
 Less head movement, less wasted time.
 
 That is the argument for what it is worth. Real life is of course vastly
 more complex than
 this and we are swimming in very muddy waters, which is why there is so
 much
 argument on the subject (raid salesmen - spit).
 
 Thanks for the vent
 
 Garry Gilliesbegin:vcard 
n:Fink;Daniel
tel;cell:303.808.3282
tel;work:303.272.3225
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
adr:;;
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:DB Services Lead
x-mozilla-cpt:;-4832
fn:Daniel Fink
end:vcard

RE: failed to archive

2003-07-15 Thread Adams, Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130)




It's 
due to Oracle using multiple archivers.
For 
every one that fails, you will find an 
another ARCX process that was already 
working
on 
it.

Using 
sequence number 87568 from below as an
example, grep for that number in the alert log and see 

for 
yourself.

Matt

Matt Adams - GE Appliances - 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]"Doing linear scans over an associative array is 
liketrying to club someone to death with a loaded 
Uzi." - Larry Wall (creator of Perl) 

-Original Message-From: AK 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:45 
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: failed 
to archive

I see a lot of "failed to archive " messages in 
alert.log . But finally the log gets archived . Is it due overloaded archiver ? 


this is from alert log.

ARC0: Beginning to archive log# 3 seq# 
87568ARC0: Failed to archive log# 3 seq# 87568ARC0: Beginning to archive 
log# 2 seq# 87569Mon Jul 14 11:36:23 2003ARC4: Completed archiving log# 
3 seq# 87568

-ak 

ocp dba 8i

Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Tim Levatich

Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
~
Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker Woods Road,  Ithaca,  New 
York  14850
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax 607-254-2415
http://birds.cornell.eduhttp://birdsource.cornell.edu
~

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RE: MicroSlop DTC

2003-07-15 Thread Jesse, Rich

Unfortunately, it's not just a problem with this product.  Some Oracle
products like OEM can incorrectly populate TNSNAMES.ORA for you because of
course that's always the best thing to do (and isn't there another Oracle
product that requires it or am I confusing that with the semi-Intelligent
Agent's requirement of a LISTENER.ORA?).

And Quest's QCO will largely not work correctly in v2.4 (and to some extent
in 2.5) without a correctly populated TNSNAMES.ORA (sorry Jacques!).  I went
around and around with Quest Support as to why this is incorrect and why I
refuse to manually populate a TNSNAMES.ORA on some or all clients.
Supposedly, it'll be fixed in v3.

Desperately trying to get rid of all TNSNAMES.ORAs on all non-DBA boxes...


Rich

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 From: Goulet, Dick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:15 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC
 
 
 Yes, as well as SQL*Plus and ODBCTST.
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:59 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
 Hum, does tnsping resolve the service correctly?
 
 Ron Thomas

 9.2.0.1.0  On Win 2K.
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:54 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
 I've seen this happen with older versions of the sqlnet 
 client (Different application, same
 symptom).  What version of the client are you using?
 
 Ron Thomas
 Hypercom, Inc
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. 
 -- Kernighan
 
 
 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 To All, especially any WEB developers out there.
 
  We've a WEB based application that uses MS DTC.  
 OK, so we turned on XA in the
 database, but the web servers do not want to play with our 
 normal ONmase setup.  Instead they only
 want to work with a TNSNAMES.ORA file in the appriopriate 
 place.  I've been all over MicroSlop
 Technet and Metalink as well as  several other IIS sites with 
 no results.  Therefore anyone know why
 this is??
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA
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Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

Hi!

  During an indexed query on a single table the index will be
  accessed, then  the table,  then the index,then the table,
  then the index,then the table then the index,then the table.

Actually, if you think a little more, then you see that physical IO doesn't
occur like you described.

If you got non-unique index range scan first time for example, you got
index-access for index header block, then access to branch block in
different location on disk (first branch block can be in completely
different location on disk, dependent on extent sizes, number of datafiles
in tablespace, datafile sizes and extensibility, even cardinality of index +
other factors). Then next level branch block is probably in different
location on disk again etc..) So, when you eventually get to leaf block
(another physical IO), you have a number of entries (with rowids) there
which match your where condition, and a physical IO has to be done for each
block where we got matching rows (here comes the clustering factor into
play - if matching rows are spread all over different blocks, we got lots of
IOs to do).

So, it's more like index-index-index-index IO + table-table-table-table IO.

Next time there's hopefully no physical IO needed for index root block and
maybe some other blocks as well, dependion on IO rate and buffer cache size
etc.. And I believe, when index range scan is done, Oracle can optimize it's
IO to batches, not having to initiate separate IO requests for every single
row scanned but other wiser people might want to comment on it..

Tanel.


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RE: Sparky auth file

2003-07-15 Thread Jesse, Rich

Yes and no.  If I remember correctly (it's been a few months now), the lock
on the trace file is probably a shareable write lock (RMS).  So you can
read/copy the file, but not open it for write/append.  Changing the
requested access on the open of the file may solve this.  Someone correct me
if I'm wrong...

Yes, some of do miss VMS, Mladen!  :)   zipping up flame-proof suit


Rich

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


 -Original Message-
 From: Gudmundur Bjarni Josepsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:35 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: Sparky auth file
 
 
 This was solved offline by examining the setup at one of my customers'
 site which has the same configuration of VMS, Oracle and Perl as Barb
 listed.
 
 Barb changed the setting of user_dump_dest to point to the actual
 directory that was defined in the hotsos.auth file.  For some 
 reason the
 logical was not resolved correctly.  I am not proficient enough in VMS
 to explain that behaviour further.
 
 To save any future users of Sparky and VMS a few minutes of 
 frustration
 I'd like to point out that you must remember to quit your 
 session before
 Sparky can pull the trace file over to your PC.  VMS does not release
 the file lock on the trace file even if you stop tracing.
 
 Gudmundur
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SGA question

2003-07-15 Thread Sai Selvaganesan

hi 

is it possible to have a sga bigger than the rela
memory available?

suppose i have a 1gb ram can i start an instance with
sga 2gb. does virtual memeory play a part in this
memory allocation?

thanks
sai
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RE: SGA question

2003-07-15 Thread Igor Neyman

Don't do it.
You should try to avoid paging.

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
Sai Selvaganesan
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

hi 

is it possible to have a sga bigger than the rela
memory available?

suppose i have a 1gb ram can i start an instance with
sga 2gb. does virtual memeory play a part in this
memory allocation?

thanks
sai
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RE: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Jesse, Rich

Yes.

Yes.

Not yet.

We're VERY I/O bound on our 6-way HP K570 and an AutoRAID (see BAARF) for
our ERP system running a hybrid (OLTP/reporting) 8.1.7.4 DB.  We've tested
an IBM FastT900, a smallish box in the SAN world, with wonderful preliminary
results for us.  I'm sure that the perf tuners here on the list have already
predicted what we've seen.  While our I/O bandwidth went up, that caused the
CPUs to spin more to generate all those I/O requests.  And while our tests
showed a marked improvement in total response time, individual wait events
are still high in some cases.  I take this to possibly be evidence that if
we were able to redesign our apps (purchased and homegrown) to reduce total
I/O, maybe we wouldn't need new hardware.

So what's the bottom line of this incoherent babble?  We're going SAN.  Our
I/Os went from 400-500 peak on the AutoRAID to 22000 peak (cached) with 5000
sustained (uncached) on the SAN, with a mitigated 2GB cache (1GB mirrored,
flushed).  Hopefully, we'll be able to also upgrade the DB server next year
to compensate for the inevitable CPU bottleneck.  And while this is going
on, we're attempting to change our design methods to better allow for
scalability.  Not that it'll help our purchased apps, though...

One more note: because of time constraints, we were not able to test the SAN
with anything close to our production DB/app K570 server (test box was a
dual 2.4Ghz Windohs PC that was a pain to setup).  The purpose of the test
was to see what kind of raw and buffered I/O we could get from the FastT900
and a copy of our 30GB production DB.  We will hopefully be testing the SAN
on a K-box soon to see exactly what kind of CPU it's going to take to feed
the I/O.

HTH!  GL!

Rich

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


 -Original Message-
 From: Tim Levatich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Datafiles on SAN?
 
 
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 
 ~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
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RE: RE: should you separate indexes from tables in separate dataf

so there are benefits of splitting indexes and tables on different mount points in an 
instance used for batch loads? such as a data publication model where you ingest 
deltas? 

any data on this? 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue PM 12:04:24 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: should you separate indexes from tables in separate dataf

 R,
My personal theory on where this started was benchmarking. Before the
 Oracle Wait Interface was developed, about the only hard-core information
 you could get on tuning came as a result of people running benchmarks. If
 you benchmark a batch program by itself that uses an index to access a
 table, you will get much better performance if you place the index and table
 on separate devices. 
 Now, as has been pointed out, in a busy multi-user system with many
 users, many tables and indexes, you shouldn't just put the indexes on
 separate devices and call it Miller time. You should observe the actual
 usage at a time when performance is critical (Cary Millsap does a nice job
 of describing this, although he focuses on finding critical applications),
 look for devices that are most heavily used, and move data files accordingly
 to spread the load. If you sill feel you must keep the table and indexes
 separate, you can criss-cross, i.e. put table A on device A and index A on
 device B, then table B on device B and index B on device A.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles

 does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA Handbook' or was
 it a different text? 

  From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

  R,

  Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
  time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from the
  tables they belong to.

  Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse architect
 did
  was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun
 system)
  are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all
 files
  in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC cache
  available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from data
  are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM disk
 -
  where all disk IO is spread across all disk.

  If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep
 indexes
  and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have enough
  disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat anyway.

  hope this helps.

  Tom Mercadante
  Oracle Certified Professional

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

  There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
 performance
  improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O points.

  Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put
 them
  on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

  Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
  actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
  seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont lower
  I/O contention.

  Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is leading?

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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles


Hrrr - as a wine-drinking, vegetarian, non-weightlifting new yawk
city boy, this explains why I never fit in with the storage crowd

However, to address the original idea about striping across lots of
disks, etc., you have to be very careful about how you configure your
storage volumes depending on your storage arrays.  The intelligence
that is built-in to high-end frames can be outsmarted (for better or
worse) by certain storage configurations.  Case in point - you have an
EMC array that exposes 9 GB RAID-1 volumes that you use Veritas to
create stripe sets across.  You make a 10-volume RAID-0 stripe and
following the match the filesystem block size to the oracle block size
principle you make the stripe depth 8k.  This makes a certain degree of
sense - linear reads and writes getting distributed among a number of
physical spindles, helps mitigate hotspots, etc.  However, on a
Symmetrix, this will yield poor(er) performance results.  This is
because of two factors - one, regardless of the I/O on the host side,
the Symm will always do backend I/O and cache allocation in 32k objects
and two, the symmetrix readahead won't kick in until it sees two or
three sequential tracks being requested within a certain minimum amount
of time.  So, the small stripe size ends up unnecessarily placing
objects in cache and negates the readahead that can provide large
performance enhancements.  There's a whole host of oddities like these
that are present in all of the major storage vendors, so you have to be
aware of what's going to happen.

The moral of the story is, of course, the more expensive your storage
array, the more you benefit by knowing the hows and whys of what your
storage array does.  Also try not to be too smart about how you set up
your storage unless you have a very deep understanding of the
intelligence behind the storage - it'll help keep you from shooting
yourself in the foot.  I've seen too many oracle DBAs spend hours
creating a highly tuned storage configuration based on faulty or
lacking information on how the storage array actually works and then
they complain about how slow the array is

Thanks,

Matt

--
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GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Stephen Lee
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:25 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in 
 seperate datafiles
 
 
 
 Steroids, weight lifting, and a flattop hair cut (orange or 
 green).  After two years of this, try talking to the storage 
 guys while holding a beer in one hand and a Polish sausage in 
 the other.  If you can manage a good belch during the 
 conversation, even better.
 
 (Are you a visual person?)
 
  -Original Message-
  get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now 
 now little 
  girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the 
 disks are 
  set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male 
 data center 
  operations people crap I get)
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 information (like subscribing).
 

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Re: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Jose Luis Delgado

I have them...

one of the things that I can tell you is that...

sometimes (at least here at work) the ports switches
fail and you lost your connectivity to your
filesystems...

it does not mean that your database goes down... just
have to reassign your LUNs to another SP processor and
that's it...

anyway, in my case I lost about 30 mins (the time to
detect/reassign/correct the problem)... fortunately
was a test database...

I would like to help/comment you more, but, that's
what we have seem until now.!

HTH
JL


--- Tim Levatich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 

~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
 Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker
 Woods Road,  Ithaca,  New 
 York  14850
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax
 607-254-2415
 http://birds.cornell.edu   
 http://birdsource.cornell.edu

~
 
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Re: SGA question

2003-07-15 Thread AK

you will end up doing swap/paging .

-ak


- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:49 AM


 hi 
 
 is it possible to have a sga bigger than the rela
 memory available?
 
 suppose i have a 1gb ram can i start an instance with
 sga 2gb. does virtual memeory play a part in this
 memory allocation?
 
 thanks
 sai
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
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Re: Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

why is it useful to seperate different i/o pattersn? such as multi-block reads and 
single block reads? 

 From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:59:23 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

 - Original Message - 

  I must say that I haven't actually seen the benefits myself but my faith 
  is rock solid and I'll continue to separate data from indexes.

 Don't want to debate faith...  However, the technical side I can.  ;)

 The practice of separating indexes and tables into individual
 tablespaces comes from very early in the history of databases,
 as many here know.  It made sense then in terms of performance, 
 when databases were relatively small and the number of objects 
 and users in a database was also small.  Besides, in those days
 disks were discrete and controllers controlled each disk 
 separately.  It was easy to separate loads, for those who
 could be bothered and knew the arcane arts of disk partitioning
 and file system creation.

 Nowadays with databases of thousands of tables and indexes,
 with disk farms and multiple disk strings and monster
 caches and disk arrays and logical volume managers, it makes 
 no sense whatsoever to separate tables from indexes 
 *FROM THE PURE PERFORMANCE POINT OF VIEW*.

 However from the maintenance and management point of view,
 it makes a lot of sense.  If you ever want to separate
 indexes to a different disk, it's infinitely easier to
 just move a set of datafiles making up a tablespace than 
 to have to create tablespaces, move indexes, blah blah.
 In addition indexes tend to have different allocation patterns 
 than tables, even in LMT.  It makes sense to separate them
 from that point of view.

 There is another consideration which you brushed on:
 You normally don't want to mix the type of I/O for indexes 
 (small, discrete blocks) from the potential stringed reads 
 of a full table scan.  They have different characteristics
 and cause all sorts of different I/O prioritization at controller
 and cache level.  As such, they should not reside in the same 
 logical device.  This means in effect: not the same tablespace.
 Having said that, all sorts of tricks are possible at LVM level
 to avoid this even in single tablespace or single file system.

 But once again: this is all very relative and highly dependent
 on the type of database and its use, type of hardware, etc.

 Bottom line: separate if you feel comfortable doing so.  You do 
 NOT have to move the separate tablespaces into different disk 
 devices: it all depends on I/O patterns, configuration, load
 management and so on.  Analyze I/O patterns and loads, find 
 the bottleneck (if there is one!) and solve it. 

 Do not do things just because someone says they should/should not
 be done.  And that includes the above. ;)

 Try and apply a one size fits all policy to your work and 
 sooner or later you'll be replaced by a program or outsourced.  
 You are a DBA: think.

 Cheers
 Nuno Souto
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Cary Millsap

The thing that occurred to me a few years ago (as a result of a test
designed by Craig Shallahamer) is that what disks do gets very, very
complicated when you add users. On any system busy enough to have a
performance problem, the odds are usually slim that a disk is just sitting
there waiting for your next I/O call. On a busy system, someone else's I/O
call is almost always going to intercede between two of *your* I/O calls.

As has been said many times, many ways...

- DO separate tables and indexes into different tablespaces. There are lots
of reasons you should do this.

- DON'T necessarily feel that you have to put the index and data tablespaces
on different devices. One decision criterion is performance: don't ever put
two files on the same device if the sum of their I/O-per-second rates
exceeds the I/O-per-second capacity of the device. Another decision
criterion is availability: don't ever put more data on a device than you can
recover in your acceptable downtime window. The list goes on...


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

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- Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
- Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Daniel Fink
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I may be way off base here, so any gurus please correct me with a gentle
slap to the back of the head...

Index and table access is not as simple as index entry..table row..index
entry..table row..etc. I just ran a quick test (which may not be
represntative and is using the primary key which can be understood as the
row number in physical order of the data blocks) and I found (using the
sequence of wait events) that there was substantial access to the index
datafiles initially, followed by substantial access to the data datafiles.
Then another single access to index, multiple access to data, single
access to index, multiple access to data. It seems to me that this pattern
is read several index blocks, then access several data blocks, read several
index blocks, access several data blocks. This may be due to the sequential
nature of the pk in the data blocks. It seems that the most efficient
algorithm is to read enough index blocks to set up a list of data blocks to
read, then go get them. Since you have the index block pinned, don't waste
any resource in releasing the pin to pin the data
blocks, then repin the index block.

The other issue is that indexes can be accessed using multiblock reads
(index fast full scan) and tables can be indexed using single block reads
(table access by rowid). 


Garry Gillies wrote:
 
 It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like a rant.
 
 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially
 
 Is it just me or is this blindingly obvious?
 You cannot access the table data until you have completed accessing the
 index data
 because the index data contains the location of the table data.
 
 During an indexed query on a single table the index will be accessed, then
 the table,
 then the index,then the table,  then the index,then the table  then the
 index,then the table.
 If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of time will be
 taken up by
 head seek movement.
 If they are on the different disks then the index heads can locate their
 data and stay
 there - and the data heads can locate their data and stay there.
 Less head movement, less wasted time.
 
 That is the argument for what it is worth. Real life is of course vastly
 more complex than
 this and we are swimming in very muddy waters, which is why there is so
 much
 argument on the subject (raid salesmen - spit).
 
 Thanks for the vent
 
 Garry Gillies

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-- 
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RE: RE: should you separate indexes from tables in separate dataf

2003-07-15 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

R,
   Just to avoid confusion, that wasn't what I meant by batch program
benchmarking.
   Are you rebuilding indexes? I've seen some strong benefits when
rebuilding indexes of having the index and table on separate devices. But
then that is really easy for you to test.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
dataf


so there are benefits of splitting indexes and tables on different mount
points in an instance used for batch loads? such as a data publication model
where you ingest deltas? 

any data on this? 
 
 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/15 Tue PM 12:04:24 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: should you separate indexes from tables in separate dataf
 
 R,
My personal theory on where this started was benchmarking. Before the
 Oracle Wait Interface was developed, about the only hard-core information
 you could get on tuning came as a result of people running benchmarks. If
 you benchmark a batch program by itself that uses an index to access a
 table, you will get much better performance if you place the index and
table
 on separate devices. 
 Now, as has been pointed out, in a busy multi-user system with many
 users, many tables and indexes, you shouldn't just put the indexes on
 separate devices and call it Miller time. You should observe the actual
 usage at a time when performance is critical (Cary Millsap does a nice job
 of describing this, although he focuses on finding critical applications),
 look for devices that are most heavily used, and move data files
accordingly
 to spread the load. If you sill feel you must keep the table and indexes
 separate, you can criss-cross, i.e. put table A on device A and index A on
 device B, then table B on device B and index B on device A.
 
 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 
 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles
 
 
 does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA Handbook' or
was
 it a different text? 
 
  
  From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate
datafiles
  
  R,
  
  Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed the
  time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away from the
  tables they belong to.
  
  Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse architect
 did
  was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points (Sun
 system)
  are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread all
 files
  in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC cache
  available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes from
data
  are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big RAM
disk
 -
  where all disk IO is spread across all disk.
  
  If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and keep
 indexes
  and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never* have
enough
  disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat anyway.
  
  hope this helps.
  
  Tom Mercadante
  Oracle Certified Professional
  
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
 performance
  improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O
points.
  
  Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If you put
 them
  on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
  
  Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That oracle
  actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be useful
  seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this wont
lower
  I/O contention.
  
  Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
leading?
 
  
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  -- 
  Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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  --

a script to list all privileges for a user heirarchically

2003-07-15 Thread Pete Finnigan

Hi everyone

I just answered a post on the server newsgroup from someone who wanted
to know if a privilege had been granted to a particular user including
mining through all of the roles granted hierarchically to roles etc. I
posted a reference to a PL/SQL script I have knocked up as an answer
there. 

I thought people here might be find it useful as well, its at http://www
.petefinnigan.com/tools.htm, and its called find_all_privs.sql. A sample
run is here:

SQL @find_all_privs
get user input

NAME OF USER TO CHECK   [ORCL]: PETE
OUTPUT METHOD   [S/F]: S
FILE NAME FOR OUTPUT   [priv.lst]:
OUTPUT DIRECTORY  [/tmp]:

old 162:lv_file_or_screen:='output_method';
new 162:lv_file_or_screen:='S';
old 164:open_file('file_name','output_dir');
new 164:open_file('priv.lst','/tmp');
old 166:get_privs('user_to_find',lv_tabs);
new 166:get_privs('PETE',lv_tabs);
...USER = PETE has ROLE CONNECT which contains =
..SYS PRIV =ALTER SESSION grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE DATABASE LINK grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE SEQUENCE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE SESSION grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE SYNONYM grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE TABLE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE VIEW grantable = NO
...USER = PETE has ROLE RESOURCE which contains =
..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE INDEXTYPE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE OPERATOR grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE PROCEDURE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE SEQUENCE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE TABLE grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE TRIGGER grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE TYPE grantable = NO
...USER = PETE has ROLE UNIX_ADMIN which contains =
..USER = UNIX_ADMIN has ROLE ADMIN which contains =
.SYS PRIV =ALTER USER grantable = NO
.SYS PRIV =CREATE USER grantable = NO
..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
...SYS PRIV =CREATE DATABASE LINK grantable = NO
...SYS PRIV =CREATE SESSION grantable = NO
...SYS PRIV =UNLIMITED TABLESPACE grantable = NO
...TABLE PRIV =SELECT table_name = V_$SESSION grantable = NO

PL/SQL procedure successfully completed.

SQL

you can choose to either send output to the screen via dbms_output or to
a file via utl_file. choose 'S' or 'F' at run time and if you choose 'F'
specify a file name and directory.

Anyway its there if anyone would find it useful.

kind regards

Pete
-- 
Pete Finnigan
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.petefinnigan.com - Oracle security audit specialists
Book:Oracle security step-by-step Guide - see http://store.sans.org for details.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Datafiles on SAN?


Hundreds, nay, thousands put their datafiles on SAN.  All love it.  All
would trade their children for more SAN storage.  None have ever had a
problem.  :)

Seriously, though, some huge percentage of storage being configured
today is SAN and a big chunk of that is database storage.  It by and
large works fine, in that its just as good as SCSI-attached, only
generally faster and you can put the array farther away from the host :)
The gotchas tend to come up in more complex environments with things
like combining multiple san vendors, different operating systems, remote
replication, snapshots, etc. etc.  But just hooking up hosts to fibre
channel storage and sending commands tends to go off flawlessly.

Thanks,
Matt

--
Matthew Zito
GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Tim Levatich
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Datafiles on SAN?
 
 
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 
 ~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
 Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker Woods Road, 
  Ithaca,  New 
 York  14850
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax 607-254-2415
 http://birds.cornell.eduhttp://birdsource.cornell.edu
 ~
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Tim Levatich
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
 information (like subscribing).
 

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AIX 5.2 Or AIX 5.1 for Oracle 9.2 database server?

2003-07-15 Thread zhu chao

Hi, friends:
There is a project that migrate a 9.0.1.3 database on linux server to
9.2.0.3 on aix/p670 server, and I have some question about this project,
hope friends in the list can share your idears.
1.Shall I use AIX 5.1 or AIX 5.2?
According to pagev
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/aix/os/52features.html, the most attractive of
5.2 is the jfs2 and large page support,cpu-guard and virtual IP Address. But
not sure whether Oracle 9.2 will support large page or not(9.2 on linux does
support large page of 2MB).Multipath IO is also avaliable for aix5.2.
But 5.2 is even newer than 5.1 and I am not sure whether it is
stable or not? Does anyone here have experience running 9.2 on aix 5.2? What
is the current ML level? Do I need to apply any special patch for database
to intall and run smoothly?

2.If using AIX 5.2, we should use 64bit kernel, and according to
document, by default it will use jfs2.In jfs2, there is a feature called
concurrent IO.Concurrent IO provide much better performance while it is a
rather new feature, shall we use it for better performance? Have anyone used
it?

3.If using multipathing, will the same disk be recognized by aix as
different hdiskN? If yes,How do i solve this problem?

Thanks.

Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cnoug.org

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RE: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

if I can still find it. :)  I know Kevin did say different disks
because I remember coming home from that presentation and trying to
explain to my data center people why I needed something like 17 disks
for my database.

my apologies over the years, people have made the assumption that
different tablespaces=different disks



--- Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 :) Look carefully at the OFA paper. It does *not* say to put indexes
 and
 data on different *disks*. It says to put them in different
 *tablespaces*.
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Rachel Carmichael
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles
 
 yes, it's in the DBA Handbook but  I believe I did see a paper
 (with, I think, Cary's name on it. Sorry Cary!) way back when that
 discussed OFA and how to set up your disks and it said to put the
 indexes in a separate tablespace on a different disk
 
 back before the days of wait event tuning that is
 
 
 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA
 Handbook'
  or was it a different text? 
  
   
   From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate
  datafiles
   
   R,
   
   Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed
 the
   time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away
  from the
   tables they belong to.
   
   Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse
  architect did
   was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points
  (Sun system)
   are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread
  all files
   in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC
  cache
   available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes
  from data
   are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big
  RAM disk -
   where all disk IO is spread across all disk.
   
   If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and
  keep indexes
   and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never*
 have
  enough
   disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat
  anyway.
   
   hope this helps.
   
   Tom Mercadante
   Oracle Certified Professional
   
   
   -Original Message-
   Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   
   
   There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
  performance
   improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O
  points.
   
   Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If
 you
  put them
   on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
   
   Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That
  oracle
   actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be
  useful
   seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this
 wont
  lower
   I/O contention.
   
   Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
  leading? 
   
   -- 
   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
   -- 
   Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
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 may
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Re: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread zhu chao

Hi, JL:
I think you need the multipathing solution for your platform. In a SAN
environment, there is more devices, so more chance that device fail. So you
need multiple path from host to storage. That means multipathing IO support,
like Veritas DMP or Sun AP or HP pvlinks or storage specific solutions.
Good luck.
Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cnoug.org
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 1:19 AM


 I have them...

 one of the things that I can tell you is that...

 sometimes (at least here at work) the ports switches
 fail and you lost your connectivity to your
 filesystems...

 it does not mean that your database goes down... just
 have to reassign your LUNs to another SP processor and
 that's it...

 anyway, in my case I lost about 30 mins (the time to
 detect/reassign/correct the problem)... fortunately
 was a test database...

 I would like to help/comment you more, but, that's
 what we have seem until now.!

 HTH
 JL


 --- Tim Levatich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
  Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 
 
 ~
  Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
  Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker
  Woods Road,  Ithaca,  New
  York  14850
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax
  607-254-2415
  http://birds.cornell.edu
  http://birdsource.cornell.edu
 
 ~
 
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.net
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INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Joe Testa

Its all fine unless some jacka$$ starts pulling fiber cables w/o paying 
attention, then  the paths die, databases crash, etc.

joe

Matthew Zito wrote:

Hundreds, nay, thousands put their datafiles on SAN.  All love it.  All
would trade their children for more SAN storage.  None have ever had a
problem.  :)
Seriously, though, some huge percentage of storage being configured
today is SAN and a big chunk of that is database storage.  It by and
large works fine, in that its just as good as SCSI-attached, only
generally faster and you can put the array farther away from the host :)
The gotchas tend to come up in more complex environments with things
like combining multiple san vendors, different operating systems, remote
replication, snapshots, etc. etc.  But just hooking up hosts to fibre
channel storage and sending commands tends to go off flawlessly.
Thanks,
Matt
--
Matthew Zito
GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Tim Levatich
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Datafiles on SAN?

Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
~
Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker Woods Road, 
Ithaca,  New 
York  14850
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax 607-254-2415
http://birds.cornell.eduhttp://birdsource.cornell.edu
~

--
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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles?

2003-07-15 Thread Luis deUrioste

I LOVE THIS LIST!

A few more personalities (GAJA, ARI, IAN .) opinions added to this discussion and 
we could publish a paper on this thread alone.

Thank you GURUS

You are the ones that make monitoring this list worth more than anything !

Luis

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles?


The thing that occurred to me a few years ago (as a result of a test
designed by Craig Shallahamer) is that what disks do gets very, very
complicated when you add users. On any system busy enough to have a
performance problem, the odds are usually slim that a disk is just sitting
there waiting for your next I/O call. On a busy system, someone else's I/O
call is almost always going to intercede between two of *your* I/O calls.

As has been said many times, many ways...

- DO separate tables and indexes into different tablespaces. There are lots
of reasons you should do this.

- DON'T necessarily feel that you have to put the index and data tablespaces
on different devices. One decision criterion is performance: don't ever put
two files on the same device if the sum of their I/O-per-second rates
exceeds the I/O-per-second capacity of the device. Another decision
criterion is availability: don't ever put more data on a device than you can
recover in your acceptable downtime window. The list goes on...


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
- Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Daniel Fink
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I may be way off base here, so any gurus please correct me with a gentle
slap to the back of the head...

Index and table access is not as simple as index entry..table row..index
entry..table row..etc. I just ran a quick test (which may not be
represntative and is using the primary key which can be understood as the
row number in physical order of the data blocks) and I found (using the
sequence of wait events) that there was substantial access to the index
datafiles initially, followed by substantial access to the data datafiles.
Then another single access to index, multiple access to data, single
access to index, multiple access to data. It seems to me that this pattern
is read several index blocks, then access several data blocks, read several
index blocks, access several data blocks. This may be due to the sequential
nature of the pk in the data blocks. It seems that the most efficient
algorithm is to read enough index blocks to set up a list of data blocks to
read, then go get them. Since you have the index block pinned, don't waste
any resource in releasing the pin to pin the data
blocks, then repin the index block.

The other issue is that indexes can be accessed using multiblock reads
(index fast full scan) and tables can be indexed using single block reads
(table access by rowid). 


Garry Gillies wrote:
 
 It's hot here. I wish I was at the beach and I feel like a rant.
 
 oracle actually accesses indexes and tables serially
 
 Is it just me or is this blindingly obvious?
 You cannot access the table data until you have completed accessing the
 index data
 because the index data contains the location of the table data.
 
 During an indexed query on a single table the index will be accessed, then
 the table,
 then the index,then the table,  then the index,then the table  then the
 index,then the table.
 If the index and the table are on the same disk then a lot of time will be
 taken up by
 head seek movement.
 If they are on the different disks then the index heads can locate their
 data and stay
 there - and the data heads can locate their data and stay there.
 Less head movement, less wasted time.
 
 That is the argument for what it is worth. Real life is of course vastly
 more complex than
 this and we are swimming in very muddy waters, which is why there is so
 much
 argument on the subject (raid salesmen - spit).
 
 Thanks for the vent
 
 Garry Gillies

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RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Matt
   Thanks so much for your posting. I especially appreciated your comment
try not to be too smart. Would you consider writing a book on the topic of
I/O Devices for the Oracle DBA? I would like to learn more, but don't know
where to begin. 

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles



Hrrr - as a wine-drinking, vegetarian, non-weightlifting new yawk
city boy, this explains why I never fit in with the storage crowd

However, to address the original idea about striping across lots of
disks, etc., you have to be very careful about how you configure your
storage volumes depending on your storage arrays.  The intelligence
that is built-in to high-end frames can be outsmarted (for better or
worse) by certain storage configurations.  Case in point - you have an
EMC array that exposes 9 GB RAID-1 volumes that you use Veritas to
create stripe sets across.  You make a 10-volume RAID-0 stripe and
following the match the filesystem block size to the oracle block size
principle you make the stripe depth 8k.  This makes a certain degree of
sense - linear reads and writes getting distributed among a number of
physical spindles, helps mitigate hotspots, etc.  However, on a
Symmetrix, this will yield poor(er) performance results.  This is
because of two factors - one, regardless of the I/O on the host side,
the Symm will always do backend I/O and cache allocation in 32k objects
and two, the symmetrix readahead won't kick in until it sees two or
three sequential tracks being requested within a certain minimum amount
of time.  So, the small stripe size ends up unnecessarily placing
objects in cache and negates the readahead that can provide large
performance enhancements.  There's a whole host of oddities like these
that are present in all of the major storage vendors, so you have to be
aware of what's going to happen.

The moral of the story is, of course, the more expensive your storage
array, the more you benefit by knowing the hows and whys of what your
storage array does.  Also try not to be too smart about how you set up
your storage unless you have a very deep understanding of the
intelligence behind the storage - it'll help keep you from shooting
yourself in the foot.  I've seen too many oracle DBAs spend hours
creating a highly tuned storage configuration based on faulty or
lacking information on how the storage array actually works and then
they complain about how slow the array is

Thanks,

Matt

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Stephen Lee
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:25 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in 
 seperate datafiles
 
 
 
 Steroids, weight lifting, and a flattop hair cut (orange or 
 green).  After two years of this, try talking to the storage 
 guys while holding a beer in one hand and a Polish sausage in 
 the other.  If you can manage a good belch during the 
 conversation, even better.
 
 (Are you a visual person?)
 
  -Original Message-
  get to control how my disks are set up (part of that now 
 now little 
  girl, don't you worry your pretty little head about how the 
 disks are 
  set up, you just leave that sort of stuff to us big male 
 data center 
  operations people crap I get)
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Stephen Lee
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Re: a script to list all privileges for a user heirarchically

nice! and very usable, as I'm trying to mine through privileges and
tighten security here.

thanks much!

--- Pete Finnigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi everyone
 
 I just answered a post on the server newsgroup from someone who
 wanted
 to know if a privilege had been granted to a particular user
 including
 mining through all of the roles granted hierarchically to roles etc.
 I
 posted a reference to a PL/SQL script I have knocked up as an answer
 there. 
 
 I thought people here might be find it useful as well, its at
 http://www
 .petefinnigan.com/tools.htm, and its called find_all_privs.sql. A
 sample
 run is here:
 
 SQL @find_all_privs
 get user input
 
 NAME OF USER TO CHECK   [ORCL]: PETE
 OUTPUT METHOD   [S/F]: S
 FILE NAME FOR OUTPUT   [priv.lst]:
 OUTPUT DIRECTORY  [/tmp]:
 
 old 162:lv_file_or_screen:='output_method';
 new 162:lv_file_or_screen:='S';
 old 164:open_file('file_name','output_dir');
 new 164:open_file('priv.lst','/tmp');
 old 166:get_privs('user_to_find',lv_tabs);
 new 166:get_privs('PETE',lv_tabs);
 ...USER = PETE has ROLE CONNECT which contains =
 ..SYS PRIV =ALTER SESSION grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE DATABASE LINK grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE SEQUENCE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE SESSION grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE SYNONYM grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE TABLE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE VIEW grantable = NO
 ...USER = PETE has ROLE RESOURCE which contains =
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE INDEXTYPE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE OPERATOR grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE PROCEDURE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE SEQUENCE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE TABLE grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE TRIGGER grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE TYPE grantable = NO
 ...USER = PETE has ROLE UNIX_ADMIN which contains =
 ..USER = UNIX_ADMIN has ROLE ADMIN which contains =
 .SYS PRIV =ALTER USER grantable = NO
 .SYS PRIV =CREATE USER grantable = NO
 ..SYS PRIV =CREATE CLUSTER grantable = NO
 ...SYS PRIV =CREATE DATABASE LINK grantable = NO
 ...SYS PRIV =CREATE SESSION grantable = NO
 ...SYS PRIV =UNLIMITED TABLESPACE grantable = NO
 ...TABLE PRIV =SELECT table_name = V_$SESSION grantable = NO
 
 PL/SQL procedure successfully completed.
 
 SQL
 
 you can choose to either send output to the screen via dbms_output or
 to
 a file via utl_file. choose 'S' or 'F' at run time and if you choose
 'F'
 specify a file name and directory.
 
 Anyway its there if anyone would find it useful.
 
 kind regards
 
 Pete
 -- 
 Pete Finnigan
 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Web site: http://www.petefinnigan.com - Oracle security audit
 specialists
 Book:Oracle security step-by-step Guide - see http://store.sans.org
 for details.
 
 -- 
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RE: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Orr, Steve

Has any rolled their own SAN? We've got a bunch of stuff on EMC but
now we're looking to build our own fibre channel SAN and replace EMC NFS
with clustered file systems. (Of course Oracle is not on NFS.)

Disk may be cheap but vendor SAN boxes are not.


Steve Orr
Bozeman, MT


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hundreds, nay, thousands put their datafiles on SAN.  All love it.  All
would trade their children for more SAN storage.  None have ever had a
problem.  :)

Seriously, though, some huge percentage of storage being configured
today is SAN and a big chunk of that is database storage.  It by and
large works fine, in that its just as good as SCSI-attached, only
generally faster and you can put the array farther away from the host :)
The gotchas tend to come up in more complex environments with things
like combining multiple san vendors, different operating systems, remote
replication, snapshots, etc. etc.  But just hooking up hosts to fibre
channel storage and sending commands tends to go off flawlessly.

Thanks,
Matt

--
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GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tim Levatich
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Datafiles on SAN?
 
 
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 
 ~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
 Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker Woods Road,
  Ithaca,  New 
 York  14850
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax 607-254-2415
 http://birds.cornell.eduhttp://birdsource.cornell.edu
 ~
 
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RE: MicroSlop DTC

2003-07-15 Thread John Kanagaraj

Jesse,

You could always get around this problem by obtaining an upto date
TNSNAMES.ORA on any Names-aware client using the 'namesctl dump_tnsnames'
command that will create/update the tnsnames.ora with the entries from Names
servers. I would suggest renaming the original tnsnames.ora _just_ before
doing this, and having some script check the sizes of the created file (just
in case). 

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DBSoft Inc
(W): 408-970-7002

What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the end
of your journey in this earth?

** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
employer or clients **

 -Original Message-
 From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:25 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC
 
 
 Unfortunately, it's not just a problem with this product.  Some Oracle
 products like OEM can incorrectly populate TNSNAMES.ORA for 
 you because of
 course that's always the best thing to do (and isn't there 
 another Oracle
 product that requires it or am I confusing that with the 
 semi-Intelligent
 Agent's requirement of a LISTENER.ORA?).
 
 And Quest's QCO will largely not work correctly in v2.4 (and 
 to some extent
 in 2.5) without a correctly populated TNSNAMES.ORA (sorry 
 Jacques!).  I went
 around and around with Quest Support as to why this is 
 incorrect and why I
 refuse to manually populate a TNSNAMES.ORA on some or all clients.
 Supposedly, it'll be fixed in v3.
 
 Desperately trying to get rid of all TNSNAMES.ORAs on all 
 non-DBA boxes...
 
 
 Rich
 
 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Goulet, Dick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:15 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC
  
  
  Yes, as well as SQL*Plus and ODBCTST.
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA 
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:59 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
  Hum, does tnsping resolve the service correctly?
  
  Ron Thomas
 
  9.2.0.1.0  On Win 2K.
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:54 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
  I've seen this happen with older versions of the sqlnet 
  client (Different application, same
  symptom).  What version of the client are you using?
  
  Ron Thomas
  Hypercom, Inc
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. 
  -- Kernighan
  
  
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  To All, especially any WEB developers out there.
  
   We've a WEB based application that uses MS DTC.  
  OK, so we turned on XA in the
  database, but the web servers do not want to play with our 
  normal ONmase setup.  Instead they only
  want to work with a TNSNAMES.ORA file in the appriopriate 
  place.  I've been all over MicroSlop
  Technet and Metalink as well as  several other IIS sites with 
  no results.  Therefore anyone know why
  this is??
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA
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 -- 
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Re: SGA question

2003-07-15 Thread Sai Selvaganesan

surely i will not do it. but my question is whether it
is possible at all to do it.

will oracle when allocating shared memory space take
virtual memory into consideration or only real memory
into consideration.

thanks
sai

--- AK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 you will end up doing swap/paging .
 
 -ak
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:49 AM
 
 
  hi 
  
  is it possible to have a sga bigger than the rela
  memory available?
  
  suppose i have a 1gb ram can i start an instance
 with
  sga 2gb. does virtual memeory play a part in this
  memory allocation?
  
  thanks
  sai
  -- 
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  -- 
  Author: Sai Selvaganesan
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RE: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

2003-07-15 Thread Cary Millsap

If you can't find it, you can download it again from
http://www.hotsos.com/catalog. I *promise* I haven't cheated and edited the
document since the date that's published on its cover.

Lots of people at the time (~1992) were preaching to separate indexes and
data on different disks. The OFA gave you the *ability* to separate indexes
from data on disk (if your I/O rates were high enough to motivate it), but I
tried to avoid saying anything in that document that either wasn't true to
begin with, or that was likely change as technology evolved.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
- Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Rachel Carmichael
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
datafiles

if I can still find it. :)  I know Kevin did say different disks
because I remember coming home from that presentation and trying to
explain to my data center people why I needed something like 17 disks
for my database.

my apologies over the years, people have made the assumption that
different tablespaces=different disks



--- Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 :) Look carefully at the OFA paper. It does *not* say to put indexes
 and
 data on different *disks*. It says to put them in different
 *tablespaces*.
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Rachel Carmichael
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles
 
 yes, it's in the DBA Handbook but  I believe I did see a paper
 (with, I think, Cary's name on it. Sorry Cary!) way back when that
 discussed OFA and how to set up your disks and it said to put the
 indexes in a separate tablespace on a different disk
 
 back before the days of wait event tuning that is
 
 
 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA
 Handbook'
  or was it a different text? 
  
   
   From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate
  datafiles
   
   R,
   
   Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed
 the
   time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away
  from the
   tables they belong to.
   
   Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse
  architect did
   was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points
  (Sun system)
   are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to spread
  all files
   in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of EMC
  cache
   available, it further disproves the theory that separing indexes
  from data
   are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one big
  RAM disk -
   where all disk IO is spread across all disk.
   
   If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and
  keep indexes
   and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never*
 have
  enough
   disk mount points, so we end up merging things together somewhat
  anyway.
   
   hope this helps.
   
   Tom Mercadante
   Oracle Certified Professional
   
   
   -Original Message-
   Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   
   
   There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
  performance
   improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple I/O
  points.
   
   Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If
 you
  put them
   on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.
   
   Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That
  oracle
   actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be
  useful
   seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this
 wont
  lower
   I/O contention.
   
   Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence is
  leading? 
   
   -- 
   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
   -- 
   Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
   Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
 http://www.fatcity.com
   San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
  services
  
 
 -
   To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
   to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
 in
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   (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
 may
   also send the HELP command for other

John Kanagaraj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jesse,You could always get around this problem by obtaining an upto dateTNSNAMES.ORA on any Names-aware client using the 'namesctl dump_tnsnames'command that will create/update the tnsnames.ora with the entries from Namesservers. I would suggest renaming the original tnsnames.ora _just_ beforedoing this, and having some script check the sizes of the created file (justin case). John KanagarajOracle Applications DBADBSoft Inc(W): 408-970-7002What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the endof your journey in this earth?** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of myemployer or clients ** -Original Message- From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:25 AM To: Multiple reci!
pients of
list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC Unfortunately, it's not just a problem with this product. Some Oracle products like OEM can incorrectly populate TNSNAMES.ORA "for you" because of course that's always the best thing to do (and isn't there another Oracle product that requires it or am I confusing that with the semi-Intelligent Agent's requirement of a LISTENER.ORA?). And Quest's QCO will largely not work correctly in v2.4 (and to some extent in 2.5) without a correctly populated TNSNAMES.ORA (sorry Jacques!). I went around and around with Quest Support as to why this is incorrect and why I refuse to manually populate a TNSNAMES.ORA on some or all clients. Supposedly, it'll be fixed in v3. Desperately trying to get rid of all TNSNAMES.ORAs on all non-DBA boxes... &!
gt;
Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Goulet, Dick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC Yes, as well as SQL*Plus and ODBCTST.Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHum, does tnsping resolve the service correctly?Ron Thomas 9.2.0.1.0 On Win 2K.Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA!
t;
Oracle Certified 8i DBA-Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LI've seen this happen with older versions of the sqlnet client (Different application, same symptom). What version of the client are you using?Ron Thomas Hypercom, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan[EMAIL PROTECTED]To All, especially any WEB developers out there.We've a WEB based application that uses MS DTC. OK, so we turned on XA in the database, but the web servers do not want to play with our normal ONmase setup. Instead !
they
only want to work with a TNSNAMES.ORA file in the appriopriate place. I've been all over MicroSlop Technet and Metalink as well as several other IIS sites with no results. Therefore anyone know why this is??Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L!

(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: John KanagarajINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin

2003-07-15 Thread M.Godlewski

I've been asked to interview a system admin candidate for our Solaris shop. I've search Google and altavista, but haven't come up with any after 1999 interview questions. Does anyone have a list of interview question or a link to some?

tia
M
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RE: Datafiles on SAN?

2003-07-15 Thread Orr, Steve

Gadzoox!! www.gadzoox.com

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I have them...

one of the things that I can tell you is that...

sometimes (at least here at work) the ports switches
fail and you lost your connectivity to your
filesystems...

it does not mean that your database goes down... just
have to reassign your LUNs to another SP processor and
that's it...

anyway, in my case I lost about 30 mins (the time to
detect/reassign/correct the problem)... fortunately was a test
database...

I would like to help/comment you more, but, that's
what we have seem until now.!

HTH
JL


--- Tim Levatich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 

~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
 Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker
 Woods Road,  Ithaca,  New
 York  14850
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax
 607-254-2415
 http://birds.cornell.edu   
 http://birdsource.cornell.edu

~
 
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
 http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Tim Levatich
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 hosting services

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 E-Mail message
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 ORACLE-L
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 from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information
 (like subscribing).


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RE: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin

2003-07-15 Thread Scott . Shafer

question #1:  Do you realize that your DBA is a God, and you will obey
his/her edicts without question?

question #2:  Are you aware of the daily offering of food/beer required to
keep in your God's (DBA's) good graces?

etc...

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


 -Original Message-
 From: M.Godlewski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:30 PM
 To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin
 
 I've been asked to interview a system admin candidate for our Solaris
 shop.  I've search Google and altavista, but haven't come up with any
 after 1999 interview questions.  Does anyone have a list of interview
 question or a link to some?
 
  
 
 tia
 
 M
 
   _  
 
 Do you Yahoo!?
 The New Yahoo! Search
 http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com - Faster.
 Easier. Bingo.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Author: 
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RE: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate datafiles

Oh I'm sure I have a copy at home, somewhere. I'm a packrat.

I was an almost brand-new DBA at the time, so I was on information
overload then, trying to learn Oracle and as as much as I could, all at
once (you try becoming the Oracle DBA without ever having seen Oracle
before!)

and yes, you do try (and as far as I can tell, succeed) not to say
things that won't stay true.

Blame my faulty memory on advancing old age :)


--- Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If you can't find it, you can download it again from
 http://www.hotsos.com/catalog. I *promise* I haven't cheated and
 edited the
 document since the date that's published on its cover.
 
 Lots of people at the time (~1992) were preaching to separate indexes
 and
 data on different disks. The OFA gave you the *ability* to separate
 indexes
 from data on disk (if your I/O rates were high enough to motivate
 it), but I
 tried to avoid saying anything in that document that either wasn't
 true to
 begin with, or that was likely change as technology evolved.
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Rachel Carmichael
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:54 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 datafiles
 
 if I can still find it. :)  I know Kevin did say different disks
 because I remember coming home from that presentation and trying to
 explain to my data center people why I needed something like 17 disks
 for my database.
 
 my apologies over the years, people have made the assumption that
 different tablespaces=different disks
 
 
 
 --- Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  :) Look carefully at the OFA paper. It does *not* say to put
 indexes
  and
  data on different *disks*. It says to put them in different
  *tablespaces*.
  
  
  Cary Millsap
  Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
  http://www.hotsos.com
  
  Upcoming events:
  - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Washington, Denver, Sydney
  - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas
  - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
  
  
  -Original Message-
  Rachel Carmichael
  Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:44 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  datafiles
  
  yes, it's in the DBA Handbook but  I believe I did see a paper
  (with, I think, Cary's name on it. Sorry Cary!) way back when that
  discussed OFA and how to set up your disks and it said to put the
  indexes in a separate tablespace on a different disk
  
  back before the days of wait event tuning that is
  
  
  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   does anyoen disagree? Didnt this get started with the 'DBA
  Handbook'
   or was it a different text? 
   

From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/07/15 Tue AM 11:10:05 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: should you seperate indexes from tables in
 seperate
   datafiles

R,

Some of it depends on the disk storage.  I have always followed
  the
time-proven method of organizing disks and placing indexes away
   from the
tables they belong to.

Our warehouse is using EMC external disk.  What the warehouse
   architect did
was to stripe the EMC disks in such a way that all mount points
   (Sun system)
are spread across all the EMC disks.  What this does is to
 spread
   all files
in the database across all the EMC drives.  And with 4 Gig of
 EMC
   cache
available, it further disproves the theory that separing
 indexes
   from data
are required.  The end result, in my case, is almost like one
 big
   RAM disk -
where all disk IO is spread across all disk.

If you do not have this arrangement, then I would still try and
   keep indexes
and data away from each other.  But let's face it, we *never*
  have
   enough
disk mount points, so we end up merging things together
 somewhat
   anyway.

hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There has been alot of literature stating that you will recieve
   performance
improvements by seperating indexes and tables across multiple
 I/O
   points.

Ie... you have a tables tablespace and an index tablespace. If
  you
   put them
on seperate hard drives, you will have less I/O contention.

Now Im seeing some articles stating that this is not true. That
   oracle
actually accesses indexes and tables serially. Now it might be
   useful
seperate indexes from tables for maintenance purposes but this
  wont
   lower
I/O contention.

Can anyone chime in on this? Curious to see where the evidence
 is
   leading? 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:

RE: MicroSlop DTC

2003-07-15 Thread Goulet, Dick

John,

True, but the whole purpose is to get rid of those damned TNSNAMES.ora files 
in the first place.  I don't know about you, but the fun to tracing why a end user 
can't get to the database because he has his own alias to the database buried in a 
TNSNAMES.ora file is a real PAIN.  BTW: I tried the TNS_ADMIN setting in the registry 
only to have it ignored.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jesse,

You could always get around this problem by obtaining an upto date
TNSNAMES.ORA on any Names-aware client using the 'namesctl dump_tnsnames'
command that will create/update the tnsnames.ora with the entries from Names
servers. I would suggest renaming the original tnsnames.ora _just_ before
doing this, and having some script check the sizes of the created file (just
in case). 

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DBSoft Inc
(W): 408-970-7002

What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the end
of your journey in this earth?

** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
employer or clients **

 -Original Message-
 From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:25 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC
 
 
 Unfortunately, it's not just a problem with this product.  Some Oracle
 products like OEM can incorrectly populate TNSNAMES.ORA for 
 you because of
 course that's always the best thing to do (and isn't there 
 another Oracle
 product that requires it or am I confusing that with the 
 semi-Intelligent
 Agent's requirement of a LISTENER.ORA?).
 
 And Quest's QCO will largely not work correctly in v2.4 (and 
 to some extent
 in 2.5) without a correctly populated TNSNAMES.ORA (sorry 
 Jacques!).  I went
 around and around with Quest Support as to why this is 
 incorrect and why I
 refuse to manually populate a TNSNAMES.ORA on some or all clients.
 Supposedly, it'll be fixed in v3.
 
 Desperately trying to get rid of all TNSNAMES.ORAs on all 
 non-DBA boxes...
 
 
 Rich
 
 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Goulet, Dick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:15 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: MicroSlop DTC
  
  
  Yes, as well as SQL*Plus and ODBCTST.
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA 
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:59 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
  Hum, does tnsping resolve the service correctly?
  
  Ron Thomas
 
  9.2.0.1.0  On Win 2K.
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:54 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
  I've seen this happen with older versions of the sqlnet 
  client (Different application, same
  symptom).  What version of the client are you using?
  
  Ron Thomas
  Hypercom, Inc
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. 
  -- Kernighan
  
  
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  To All, especially any WEB developers out there.
  
   We've a WEB based application that uses MS DTC.  
  OK, so we turned on XA in the
  database, but the web servers do not want to play with our 
  normal ONmase setup.  Instead they only
  want to work with a TNSNAMES.ORA file in the appriopriate 
  place.  I've been all over MicroSlop
  Technet and Metalink as well as  several other IIS sites with 
  no results.  Therefore anyone know why
  this is??
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jesse, Rich
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 
-- 
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Re: SGA question

2003-07-15 Thread AK

If it take only real mem in consideration why would pageing happen at all ?

-ak

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:19 AM


 surely i will not do it. but my question is whether it
 is possible at all to do it.
 
 will oracle when allocating shared memory space take
 virtual memory into consideration or only real memory
 into consideration.
 
 thanks
 sai
 
 --- AK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  you will end up doing swap/paging .
  
  -ak
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:49 AM
  
  
   hi 
   
   is it possible to have a sga bigger than the rela
   memory available?
   
   suppose i have a 1gb ram can i start an instance
  with
   sga 2gb. does virtual memeory play a part in this
   memory allocation?
   
   thanks
   sai
   -- 
   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.net
   -- 
   Author: Sai Selvaganesan
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: oracle listener (auto increment value for PK)

2003-07-15 Thread Andreas . Haunschmidt

Hi Markus!

Here's a recipe that might help you (assuming your table is called MYTABLE:

1. create a sequence:

  CREATE SEQUENCE MYTABLE_Sequence start with 1 increment by 1 nocycle nocache;


2. create an insert trigger

  CREATE OR REPLACE
  TRIGGER MYTABLE_Insert_Trigger
  BEFORE INSERT ON MYTABLE
  FOR EACH ROW
  DECLARE
n PLS_INTEGER;
  BEGIN
-- get the next auto increment value
SELECT MYTABLE_Sequence.NEXTVAL INTO n FROM DUAL;
-- assign the value to the ID of the row that is being inserted
:NEW.ID:=n;
END;
/




HTH  Servus!
  Andreas


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


hi
i run oracle8 on w2000 advanced server.
my  question is how to create a auto increment primary key for this table:
id number(5)
name varchar(12)

id should auto increment after inserting a new datarow
must i create a trigger ?

excuse my bad english
thx
martin

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Re: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin

2003-07-15 Thread Gabriel Aragon

I've been in the same situation, I had to interview
the company's sysadmin, though I am not one. Here you
have a few points to start your list.

Regards
Gabriel

The candidate must provide knolwedge about (how to's):

1. Start and stop a solaris system, including several
levels of boot (1,2,3, etc).
2. Patch installation.
3. App's installation and configuration (kernel and
semaphores).
4. Users creation.
5. Partitions creation.
6. Mount and unmount FileSystems.
7. DNS, IP configuration.
8. Monitoring and performance tuning (process,
priorities, memory, disk, etc).
9. Services configuration SMTP, FTP, Internet, secure
conections (HTTP, HTTPs).
10. Scripts programming.
11. Establish backup/recovery strategies.

Plus:

- Define Sun equipment architecture.



--- M.Godlewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I've been asked to interview a system admin
 candidate for our Solaris shop.  I've search Google
 and altavista, but haven't come up with any after
 1999 interview questions.  Does anyone have a list
 of interview question or a link to some?
 
  
 
 tia
 
 M
 
 
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RE: oracle listener (auto increment value for PK)

2003-07-15 Thread Andreas . Haunschmidt

Sorry I meant Hi Martin

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Markus!

Here's a recipe that might help you (assuming your table is called MYTABLE:

1. create a sequence:

  CREATE SEQUENCE MYTABLE_Sequence start with 1 increment by 1 nocycle nocache;


2. create an insert trigger

  CREATE OR REPLACE
  TRIGGER MYTABLE_Insert_Trigger
  BEFORE INSERT ON MYTABLE
  FOR EACH ROW
  DECLARE
n PLS_INTEGER;
  BEGIN
-- get the next auto increment value
SELECT MYTABLE_Sequence.NEXTVAL INTO n FROM DUAL;
-- assign the value to the ID of the row that is being inserted
:NEW.ID:=n;
END;
/


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RE: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin


Okay, here are my favorites for senior candidates (I'm giving all my
secrets away...):

1) What is an inode? Bonus: What important piece of file information is
NOT stored in the inode?
2) What is priority paging and how does it work? (mildly dated, but
useful if they claim to have been around for a while)
3) What does sr stand for in vmstat output?
4) How would I configure the gigabit ethernet interface to force it to
be full duplex?
5) How does RAID-5 work?  Bonus question: how does raid-4 work?
Extra-extra bonus question: how does raid-3 work?
6) What's the difference between the passwd and the shadow files?
7) What's the difference between the dsk and rdsk devices in /dev? Bonus
question: what's the difference between a block and a character device?
8) How do journaling filesystems work?
9) What's the difference between ssh and telnet?  Why is one preferable
over the other?
10) What's the difference between the e4000 and the e4500 (or e6000 and
e6500, etc. - also a bit dated, but there's still a million of the
things out there)
11) What happens on an E6500 when I add boards in the bottom two slots?
(I won't ask this if the person has never touched an E6500)
12) On an Sbus e-class I/O tray, what performance considerations do I
have to keep in mind when I'm installing Sbus cards?
13) Why is NIS bad?
14) What's the difference between TCP and UDP? 
15) How does DNS work?  Bonus question: is DNS TCP or UDP?

Then I usually throw in some amorphous questions: tell me about a
performance problem you tracked down and solved, how do you normally
secure a freshly installed Solaris server, etc.  Then I follow up with
product specific questions - oracle, sun cluster, veritas volume
manager, storage, etc.   

Thanks,
Matt

--
Matthew Zito
GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:44 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin
 
 
 question #1:  Do you realize that your DBA is a God, and you 
 will obey his/her edicts without question?
 
 question #2:  Are you aware of the daily offering of 
 food/beer required to keep in your God's (DBA's) good graces?
 
 etc...
 
 Scott Shafer
 San Antonio, TX
 210.581.6217
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From:   M.Godlewski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent:   Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:30 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject:Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin
  
  I've been asked to interview a system admin candidate for 
 our Solaris 
  shop.  I've search Google and altavista, but haven't come 
 up with any 
  after 1999 interview questions.  Does anyone have a list of 
 interview 
  question or a link to some?
  
   
  
  tia
  
  M
  
_
  
  Do you Yahoo!?
  The New Yahoo! Search 
  http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com - 
  Faster. Easier. Bingo.
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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RE: Datafiles on SAN?


Eh - same problem with SCSI, except SCSI cables have the neat little
screws to make that harder.  It's a good point, though - a SAN is a
network.  For proper redundancy, you need two separate fabrics (read:
redundant paths from storage to host that pass through two different
switches, with the switches NOT being cross-connected) and some sort of
software such as Veritas DMP to handle multi-path and failover.

Thanks,
Matt

--
Matthew Zito
GridApp Systems
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cell: 646-220-3551
Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
http://www.gridapp.com

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Joe Testa
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:49 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Re: Datafiles on SAN?
 
 
 Its all fine unless some jacka$$ starts pulling fiber cables 
 w/o paying 
 attention, then  the paths die, databases crash, etc.
 
 joe
 
 
 Matthew Zito wrote:
 
 Hundreds, nay, thousands put their datafiles on SAN.  All 
 love it.  All 
 would trade their children for more SAN storage.  None have 
 ever had a 
 problem.  :)
 
 Seriously, though, some huge percentage of storage being configured 
 today is SAN and a big chunk of that is database storage.  It by and 
 large works fine, in that its just as good as SCSI-attached, only 
 generally faster and you can put the array farther away from 
 the host 
 :) The gotchas tend to come up in more complex environments 
 with things 
 like combining multiple san vendors, different operating systems, 
 remote replication, snapshots, etc. etc.  But just hooking 
 up hosts to 
 fibre channel storage and sending commands tends to go off 
 flawlessly.
 
 Thanks,
 Matt
 
 --
 Matthew Zito
 GridApp Systems
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cell: 646-220-3551
 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
 http://www.gridapp.com
 
   
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tim Levatich
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Datafiles on SAN?
 
 
 Is anyone putting datafiles on SAN storage?
 Success?   Horror?Tell me a story.
 
 ~
 Tim Levatich, Database Administrator
 Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology,  159 Sapsucker Woods Road,
  Ithaca,  New 
 York  14850
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone 607-254-2113fax 607-254-2415
 http://birds.cornell.eduhttp://birdsource.cornell.edu
 ~
 
 --
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 hosting services
 
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 ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
 from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
 information (like subscribing).
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 -- 
 Joseph S Testa
 Chief Technology Officer 
 Data Management Consulting
 p: 614-791-9000
 f: 614-791-9001
 
 
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 from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
 information (like subscribing).
 
 

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RE: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin

2003-07-15 Thread M.Godlewski

These are nice questions. I'm not sure how I would identify if they are technical enough to handle the job though.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
question #1: Do you realize that your DBA is a God, and you will obeyhis/her edicts without question?question #2: Are you aware of the daily offering of food/beer required tokeep in your God's (DBA's) good graces?etc...Scott ShaferSan Antonio, TX210.581.6217 -Original Message- From: M.Godlewski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Interview Questions for a Unix Solaris System Admin I've been asked to interview a system admin candidate for our Solaris shop. I've search Google and altavista, but haven't come up with any after 1999 interview questions. Does anyone have a list of interview question or a link to some?tia !

M _ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: Datafiles on SAN?