Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Yep. A fast, intense birth can be traumatic; but it's also a healthy, normal event regardless. It all sounds a bit ridiculous and comical. Personally I'd be thankful for the privacy and lack of intervention that birthing in a toilet provides! The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. A healthy undrugged baby born effectively from a healthy undrugged woman (even if into a toilet) is a wonderful thing! :) - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date: 23/01/2007
Re: [ozmidwifery] co-sleeping
Sounds like that would be a really handy product! In their absence, though, there's always the good old side-car cot (remove side from cot, tie the cot to the side of the adult bed so it doesn't slip away from the bed, place a sheet over both the adult bed and the cot so there's no gap or suffocation risk for baby) which can be set up with any cot. :) Felicity - Membership Officer and Site Admin Every woman, and every baby, and every family deserve Joyous Birth! http://www.joyousbirth.info/ Australian home birth network. Remember this, for it is as true as true gets: your body is not a lemon! - Ina May Gaskin - Original Message - From: michelle gascoigne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] co-sleeping We use these in England they are called clip on cots. not sure where to get them from but can try to find out for you. We have them on all beds to promote breastfeeding. Shelly - Original Message - From: George, Raelene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:54 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] co-sleeping Hi everyone, I need some help! I'm trying to formulate a policy regarding co-sleeping and want to offer alternative sleeping arrangements for mothers and babies whilst in hospital. Does anyone know of a special cot that has been developed that allows the baby to sleep with mum but in a separate cot that is attached to the main bed. I've seen pictures of babies using a biliblanket in a cot attached to the bed in this way, but can't find any information. Can you help. Regards Raelene George Maternity Ward Kalgoorlie Hospital -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.2/641 - Release Date: 20/01/2007 10:24 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cosmo pregnancy magazine article - homebirth
Good stuff! - although probably more appropriate to leave it up to Janet to share or not share that information. :o) - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Cosmo pregnancy magazine article - homebirth Just letting everyone know this spot has been filled - Janet got in very quickly! Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly Zantey Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: Cosmo pregnancy magazine article - homebirth Importance: High Please email or call Penny with your stories. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support
Re: [ozmidwifery] doula for tassie
No worries Jo - we've spoken today and I've emailed on some further information and contacts to her that might be of use. Sounds like you've done a fantastic favour to her, putting out your feelers for support - as I think quality support is all she wants and needs to have the birth she wants. :) The internet opens up doors, indeed! - Original Message - From: jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] doula for tassie This didnt come back to me aplogies if you receive it twice. J From: jo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 8 November 2006 4:54 PMTo: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au'Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] doula for tassie Wow, Felicity. Thank you so much for this info, shes going to be over the moon. Ill pass it all on to her so you may hear from her sometime very soon. How fabulous is the internet! Jo x
Re: [ozmidwifery] doula for tassie
Yes - me. :) I am based near Hobart and I know of only one other Doula also based near Hobart - no idea of Doulas near Launceston or in other parts of Tassie. I have a client who is due in mid Feb next year and I myself am expecting my second child at the end of April, so I'm not sure if I'd be able to help the woman you mention, but anything is possible - if she'd like to contact me, she's more than welcome to. She might also like to try the other Hobart Doula I mentioned (I don't know her personally but have seen her listed in a few places). Contact information can be found here: http://douladirectory.joyousbirth.info/tas.html There's a couple of independent midwives in Hobart (I myself am using one for my April birth) who would certainly support a VBACif she is interested in homebirth. There's a Birth Centre at the Royal Hobart Hospital where it is certainly POSSIBLE to have a vaginal birth, but of course it's subject to the luck of the drawin terms of staff members and Hospy policy etc as with most similar institutions. I'm not sure if they "take" VBACs but it's a potential avenue to explore. Hi all, Does anyone know of any doulas working in Tassie and any hospitals, midwives or OB’s supportive of VBAC. Have just had a lengthy chat on the phone with a woman who has had 2 c/sections and is desperate for a vaginal birth. Even went as far as to ask if I’d travel to Tassie in March next year to support her.Any contacts would be wonderful.Thanks in advanceJo x
Re: [ozmidwifery] doula for tassie
I forgot to put contact info for IMs in Hobart...she might like to contact Rashelle Szoke (IM); Rashelle also runs the "Birth and Beyond" group every week, and I know Rashelle was compiling a list of careproviders and support people as I was contacted to be added - so she might be able to help. Rashelle can be reached on 03 6267 4740. Another option is Terri Stockdale (IM) who also works casually at the Royal Hobart Hospital and so might be able to provide insight into VBAC support there too - Terri can be reached on 03 6231 0633. There is also a male IM in Hobart whose contact details I don't have but Terri or Rashelle would be able to provide them; also, two more IMs are apparently moving to Tassie around December and will be operating in Hobart (I don't recall who they are but again, Terri or Rashelle would know) so there's more options there potentially too. Hi all,Does anyone know of any doulas working in Tassie and any hospitals, midwives or OB’s supportive of VBAC. Have just had a lengthy chat on the phone with a woman who has had 2 c/sections and is desperate for a vaginal birth. Even went as far as to ask if I’d travel to Tassie in March next year to support her.Any contacts would be wonderful.Thanks in advanceJo xJo HunterNational Convenor Homebirth AusCoordinator Homebirth Access SydneyInnate Birth doula and CBE(02) 47 51 9840
Re: [ozmidwifery] Goodbye
Personally, I love Lisa Barrett's contributions. I've NEVER found her rude (though often matter of fact, and her words are issued without watering down - which I personally appreciate); the reason I believe some may struggle to accept her contributions is because she's not focused on the needs or benefit of Midwives, Doulas, or other professionals, nor interested in talking in circles; she's focused squarely on the birthing women, every time, in every case. Let's remember that they're the ones who suffer when receiving care that is less than optimal (difficult though the Midwife's plight may be, it doesn't even compare to the struggle of the birthing women in our country)and let's applaud the efforts of experienced, passionate Midwives like Lisa who never lose sight of that, even at the cost of being attacked by her colleagues and being unpopular. Granted, we all do our bit in different ways; INCLUDING Lisa. I salute you, Lisa. Please don't stop contributing; your comments not only provide balance (what is the point of everyone agreeing with everyone when clearly there are many things VERY wrong with our system) but inspire me on a daily basis - inspire my renewed faith in Midwifery and in women. You talk a LOT of sense and it's refreshing. Thankyou. Sadie, I've enjoyed many of your comments as well. I'm sorry if you feel you want to leave. Goodbye, and best wishes for the future.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth in Launceston
To my knowledge (I'm a Hobart Doula), there are 3 Independent Midwives for all of Tasmania, all situated here in Hobart. If there are Launceston IMs that I'm unaware of, I'd love to know about them (and I'd be delighted if they exist) but I don't think there are. I can provide contact information for the 3 IMs here in Hobart, though that probably wouldn't help for a Launceston birth. I also only know of two Doulas in all of Tassie (though surely more must exist!) and I'm one of them! We've got a need for professionals down here. I hope your niece finds the information and support she needs. - Original Message - Katy O'Neill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear anyone, I have just had a call from my niece in Tassie who wanted info on the options for care in Launceston. Sheis thinking of taking out private health insurance as they have heard a few scary stories ( "your wifewouldhavedied if I did not step in") and are concerned about the amount of care etc she will get with BF amongst other things. I tried not to be too negative about private asit is a con herewhere I work, there is no continuity of care with Obs even if they do go private. Is there someone out there that works at Launceston Hosp.or an independent midwifethat she could contact to see how the system down there works. Is there a midwives clinic option? Feel free to contact me on [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Katy.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Conflict
Very well said, Megan. - Original Message - From: Megan Larry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 5:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Conflict Actually, this situation is not unique. My husband returned from a "Friends of" Recreational Park conservation meeting the other night and a quite heated and passionate discussion took placewith opposing views. Some just want to cut out all the olives and some want to be purists. The truth isthey need them both and everything inbetween. In Adelaide, Birth Matters has been running near 8 years, doing everything from grass root coffee mornings to packed information seminars to representatives on DHS committes and a whole heap more. We are Mums, Midwives, students, doullas, career women, you name it. We'd love to do more, reach more people, speak with young women, girls, etc but volunteers are precious things and need to be nurtured. If that means we only do the basics then so be it, next month we might be (more) amazing. Individuals give what they can, babies join our families and things slow down. I have nothing but respect for all the women I have worked along side ofin this group and our friends in CARES and Homebirth Network SA. Westep outwhen we have to and when ready wecome in with both hands in the air. My point is, if you have the energy, time and money to put into what you think isa great idea, then go for it. Share it in these forums and those who support it can join in . Those who don't share the vision can keep doing what they do best. Women need all of us, but we can't all be doing it the same way. There is far more at play here than childbirth, society is a different place, I think we could all agree on that. personally I'm happy if I have reached 1 woman a year, thats huge. Its called the ripple effect. cheers Megan
Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
I'm glad you're having such an awakening and feeling so motivated, Kelly; it's something many of us felt and began to act on a long time ago - welcome to the club, it's populated by many decades of women who continue to work hard to heal birth in our culture - which is a long, slow battle. We're all pretty aware of the situation and we're all working to the best of our own capacitys to improve it (some of us at no profit, by finance or publicity or otherwise,to ourselves). Some of your suggestions have been really worthwhile and quite exciting,but I have to admit that I'm losing my enthusiasm for them amid the sea of self promotional rhetoric that accompanies them - OzMid is not a promotional tool for BellyBelly and some posts on this list related to it have felt like advertising Spam in my InBox. I have to say I find your assumptions about Janet Fraserin particular to beoffensive. Do you actually know the totality ofwhat Janet does in her professional and personal capacity, or the widespread and rapidly growing effect Joyous Birth is having Australia wide, both in the mainstream and otherwise? It's nothing like one woman espousing her own views to the converted, and how utterly rude to dismiss the lifework of one of your sisters as being such. Every contribution counts and whilst I think I understand the point you're trying to make about reaching the mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to better enable us to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - women and babies are not a market and our integrity is not for sale. I fear the overstepping of that invisible line that would transform us into nothing too different from the Obs and Hospys - big business, marketed to the masses (for instance, in my personal experience, your forum/site needs to compromise a lot in order to appeal to the larger membership you enjoy; this results in some less than optimal advertising and advice, and the sad loss of some wonderful contributions and items. Do the ends justify the means? That's a decision we each need to make, and your contribution is still significant, though not necessarily in the form I would personally choose for myself). What is the point of a message reaching more people if the message has had to be diluted and perhaps changed in order to get there? Nothing is simple and these aspects need to be considered. It is the various voices of all of us that shed light on darker areas of the topic; some more straightforward and uncompromising contributions may seem difficult to hear but they're usually the most valuable and evidence-based in my experience, and I enjoy them thoroughly. - Original Message - I dont think this got through last night Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] article for my child magazine
Hi Kylie, I'm currently 26, but we started our family when we were 25. I'm happy to talk to you about this. :o) Felicity - Original Message - From: Kylie Carberry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] article for my child magazine Dear all, I am doing a story for My Child magazine on younger mothers (girls in the 20-25 demographic) who choose to start families early rather that the current social trend of later.It is mainly a personal view type piece but I also wanted toadd to it with a few of the advantages health wise of having a baby younger, as opposed to waiting until you older (more risk of miscarriage, chance of abnormalities with the baby, harder to become pregnant, and other things like just being more worn out when you're older). Is there anyone who would like to discuss this with me for the story - or who can suggest someone who might like to? Kind regards Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] RE: Home/water birth stories needed!
"I am doing some work for the Nappy Bag Book for next year, writing an article and also assisting them to locate some great birth stories for the book. If anyone would be happy to share their home and/or waterbirth for the book along with some photos (must be a good size/resolution) then please send them this way. Feel free to distribute this so we can get some wonderful birth stories widely distributed around Australia.Kelly Zantey" Hi Kelly, Joyous Birth (being that it's the Australian Homebirth Network) has plenty of gorgeous homebirth/waterbirth stories, as well as a Gallery of birth images. I know you're a member, so you can just look at the Birth Stories in the forum; here's the direct link:- http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewforum.php?f=9sid=f2ac02da1bb67b7d63456c2eb86f1fbe And here's the Gallery:- http://www.joyousbirth.info/gallery/main.php Please contact me on [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you're interested in any stories/images so we can arrange appropriate permission from the Mama in question. :o)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Michel Odent's Primal Research Centre has done a lot of work on the long term effects of birth on an individual. http://www.birthworks.org/primalhealth/ - Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Hi Kelly, Have you heard of Michel Odent?He isfrench surgeon that became interested in birth, became an obstetricianand ended his career doing homebirths. He has done some excellent work on the effect of birth and has written a number of books. I remember him saying at a conference once that when he was overseas and wondered how safe a city was, he would look at the birth interference/intervention and that would give him a fair ideaas he'd found a correlation between birth interference and crime rates! Cheers Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Low liquor was Trial of scar
Title: Message Lisa, "such a broad unsupported statement could lead a woman to believe that the current management of her pregnancy is incorrect because she read on this list of very experienced midwives and doulas that decreased liqour was only due to imminent labour." Well, since women aren't morons, and pregnancy is not really an issue of "management" but rather CARE and SUPPORT, I don't think we need to fear that a woman reading research, evidence and opinion and making her own decisionswill trulybe endangered by "a little bit of knowledge" - if she is able to enjoy true control of her own pregnancy and birth and receive true care and support. Besides which I personally find no flaw in Janet's reasoning and statement; it's accurate. And this is a consumer list as much as it is a Midwife and Doula list. "Mary I was not 'dismissing" the opinions of Gloria Lemay, and I am aware of her background." Gloria Lemay's wisdom, experience and evidence based knowledge is not "the opinion of an American Doula" (I don't know of many women with more claim to the title of MIDWIFE than Gloria!) - besides which, I'm intrigued as to why an American Doula's contributions would hold little weight anyway? If you ARE in fact aware of her background (as well as the fact that she can see and post on this list), I would have thought you would have at leastphrased your dismissal more respectfully. I also feel sad that wisdom, intuition, instinct and common senseare rejected and that Midwives will disregard the hard won wisdom of their own (Gloria made some colossal personal sacrifices in honour of TRULY being with woman and providing REAL support and care). Where is our respect for our real crones and our birthing women's innate wisdom? And I wouldn't "shoot an opinion from an Obstetrician down in flames" if that opinion was accurate, fair, woman-centered, evidence-based,and reasonable.
Re: [ozmidwifery] new to the list
Big welcome, Kerrie! A consumer's perspective is the most important one in birth so you're much needed. :o) - Original Message - From: Kerrie Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] new to the list Hi everyone, just thought I'd introduce myself and actually start posting here! Been lurking for a few weeks, but now it's time to contribute. I know a few of you already from Joyous Birth etc. I'm Kerrie, I am from NSW and have an 8 month old son. Very into birth, although it's personal not professional. Here to provide a consumer's perspective. Have a great day everyone! Kerrie _ Be the one of the first to try the NEW Windows Live Mail. http://ideas.live.com/programPage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-4911fb2b2e6d -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Heidi, I'm shocked by this statement. I can only assume I misunderstood your stance; could you expand on this statement? Being well-informed is not about being scared or doubtful of the Hospital (and a Doula doesn't put fear or doubt into their clients); it's a basic human right, particularly for a birthing woman and her baby. Knowledge is never dangerous (it's NOT being informed that carries the danger); and if knowledge leads a woman to feel fearful of a course of action that is proposed for her, that is a GOOD thing - it's her intuition telling her that she isn't ok with it happening, and pushing her to seek other options. Co-operation with a Hospital and her careprovider is not the ultimate goal for a birthing woman. It should be the other way around. Women are not infants and they have a right to any and all information, and to their emotions - even if they include fear. Fear is natural in birth and it's good support and good practice that gets us through it effectively; not avoiding the feeling altogether. Careproviders might not interfere with women and birth for fun (although I've seen and heard of Obs that indicate differently - and even, rarely, Midwives), but the rates of intervention compared to the rates indicated as actually necessary show that they're not often intervening based on evidence, either. It's not the information and knowledge that scares women. It's the practices and the outcomes. To address the fear we don't need to withhold information so the women can birth in Hospital without fuss; we need to truly support women, foster open negotiation and respect, and keep pushing to change the practices that aren't evidence-based or in the best interests of women and their babies. - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... Oh no no no, not at all!!! I have been as level headed with her as possible, encouraged her to ask questions, and forwarded some information which I found on the list in regards to how it all works - I am just more blunt on the list as I know I am not going to scare anyone who is informed, and I like honest questions and answers without having to worry about upsetting anyone! Of course I have encouraged her to do the regular check-ups with them, and if she wants to and all is well, ask if she can have more time or if they think it's important that she does go ahead with it, then that's fine. I often say more here than I do to the women, and make sure my role is support and not advice. If anything, she is paranoid about having a posterior baby which was fostered by a mum they brought into her ante-natal class who had a posterior bub as well, was induced and had an epidural - all of which she doesn't want. I have told her that having an OP bub now doesn't mean she will in labour, and if she did, we have tricks up our sleeve to work with that. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of heidi crisp Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 12:01 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... I am a student midwife in a tertiary hospital and this is from Myles textbook Generally, hypertension is regarded as 140/90, however if the individual has an increase of 30mg systolic or 15mg diastolic with presence of proteinurea then she should be monitored closely. The risk is of developing pre-eclampsia and then eclampsia, harm to baby and mother Your client has shown these symptoms and therefore the hospital has an obligation to care for her as best they know. My blood pressure throughout my pregnancy has been 100/60, but when it was tested Thursday/Friday last week it was 130/80... so not really high, just high for me. also she wrote I basically just said I would like the drip to start slowly and allow time for active labour to establish before increasing the dose, and also said that even if induced I would like to avoid an epidural (if humanly possible!). When having an induction where I work- we do start very low and increase UNTIL established labour, then the dose stays the same. We don't do this to be horrible to women- there is no half way with having a baby, there is no point in doing an induction if you can't reach established labour because then she really will have doctors hanging about
Re: [ozmidwifery] Get-Up website
The Joyous Birth community is organising a Get Up petition addressing the current abysmal state of affairs in QLD (the Midwifery witchhunts). You need to be a registered member of JB to access the forum and view the discussion relating to this, but here's some relevant information I've cut from the discussion for those on the list interested in getting active about birthing issues:- "If you have a good idea for a new GetUp campaign on an important national issue, then we would love to hear about it. If you can, tell us the focus of the campaign and suggest the action the campaign would ask our members to take. Send your campaign ideas to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. All campaigns ideas are read and sorted by our staff, but unfortunately we can't respond simply because of the volume of emails we receive. For media enquiries, please visit the Media page. GetUp is a trademark of GetUp Limited (A.B.N. 99 114 027 986). GetUp Ltd Level 7, 280 Pitt St Sydney NSW 2000 Phone 02 9264 4039" - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:17 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Get-Up website I came across a website recently called Get-Up (http://www.getup.org.au) What is GetUp?GetUp is a new political movement to build a more progressive Australia. GetUp brings together like-minded people who want to bring participation back into our democracy. GetUp.org.au members use the latest online tools to act on the most important issues facing the country. I had a brainwave (one of the few LOL!) - perhaps someone could contact them about getting some birthing issues on there? Its all so very easy to get petitions set up and sent to the government, I had a look through their campaigns and signed some petitions the other week and they get HUGE responses and have a great site using great technology to make it all the easier. Anyone interested in contacting them? Hopefully we can pass on all the evidence we saw at the homebirth conference to help bring birth back home and help rural birthing mothers. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Heidi, I'm shocked by this statement. I can only assume I misunderstood your stance; could you expand on this statement? Being well-informed is not about being scared or doubtful of the Hospital (and a Doula doesn't put fear or doubt into their clients); it's a basic human right, particularly for a birthing woman and her baby. Knowledge is never dangerous (it's NOT being informed that carries the danger); and if knowledge leads a woman to feel fearful of a course of action that is proposed for her, that is a GOOD thing - it's her intuition telling her that she isn't ok with it happening, and pushing her to seek other options. Co-operation with a Hospital and her careprovider is not the ultimate goal for a birthing woman. It should be the other way around. Women are not infants and they have a right to any and all information, and to their emotions - even if they include fear. Fear is natural in birth and it's good support and good practice that gets us through it effectively; not avoiding the feeling altogether. Careproviders might not interfere with women and birth for fun (although I've seen and heard of Obs that indicate differently - and even, rarely, Midwives), but the rates of intervention compared to the rates indicated as actually necessary show that they're not often intervening based on evidence, either. It's not the information and knowledge that scares women. It's the practices and the outcomes. To address the fear we don't need to withhold information so the women can birth in Hospital without fuss; we need to truly support women, foster open negotiation and respect, and keep pushing to change the practices that aren't evidence-based or in the best interests of women and their babies. - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... Oh no no no, not at all!!! I have been as level headed with her as possible, encouraged her to ask questions, and forwarded some information which I found on the list in regards to how it all works - I am just more blunt on the list as I know I am not going to scare anyone who is informed, and I like honest questions and answers without having to worry about upsetting anyone! Of course I have encouraged her to do the regular check-ups with them, and if she wants to and all is well, ask if she can have more time or if they think it's important that she does go ahead with it, then that's fine. I often say more here than I do to the women, and make sure my role is support and not advice. If anything, she is paranoid about having a posterior baby which was fostered by a mum they brought into her ante-natal class who had a posterior bub as well, was induced and had an epidural - all of which she doesn't want. I have told her that having an OP bub now doesn't mean she will in labour, and if she did, we have tricks up our sleeve to work with that. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of heidi crisp Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 12:01 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... I am a student midwife in a tertiary hospital and this is from Myles textbook Generally, hypertension is regarded as 140/90, however if the individual has an increase of 30mg systolic or 15mg diastolic with presence of proteinurea then she should be monitored closely. The risk is of developing pre-eclampsia and then eclampsia, harm to baby and mother Your client has shown these symptoms and therefore the hospital has an obligation to care for her as best they know. My blood pressure throughout my pregnancy has been 100/60, but when it was tested Thursday/Friday last week it was 130/80... so not really high, just high for me. also she wrote I basically just said I would like the drip to start slowly and allow time for active labour to establish before increasing the dose, and also said that even if induced I would like to avoid an epidural (if humanly possible!). When having an induction where I work- we do start very low and increase UNTIL established labour, then the dose stays the same. We don't do this to be horrible to women- there is no half way with having a baby, there is no point in doing an induction if you can't reach established labour because then she really will have doctors hanging about wanting a C/S for failure to progress! remember, A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Support this woman in all the ways your service offers but do your best not to put fear or doubt of the hospital into her, the brain is a crucial part of labour and if she's
Re: [ozmidwifery] 4 corners
The most interesting (and revoltingly common) thing is that this man obviously believes he has a right to dictate who HE would prefer manages his WIFE'S pregnancy. *sigh* It's actually not his choice to make, unless he's carrying the baby and planning on giving birth to it from his vagina. With that attitude, I wonder if the fact that the majority of Obs are male and the majority of Midwives female also has any influence on his views... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 4 corners The show last night was fascinating, and very true: believing that good doctors are incapable of human error is very dangerous. Here's an interesting reply that will raise the eyebrows of more than a few of you! What a pity the forum is now closed. You are correct ; the doctor is not always right. However I believe that doctors are still the health care specialist with the most training. An average specialty registrar will have a 6 year degree, 1 year internship and 2- 3 year residency, and a few more years doing their registrar training. This averages 10 years study. Consultants (obstetricians) are hence 14 or 15 years worth of training prior to being allowed to practice independently. Midwifery care is less study. As a result, midwives are cheaper for the government, and in most cases can do well at a significant cost reduction to the government. However the argument goes that midwives cannot manage critically unwell patients. Whilst these cases are rarer, they are more likely to be fatal. I would rather have an obstetrician manage my wife's pregnancy until such a time that midwives receive training in keeping with consultants and/or can do caesarean sections and operative management of patients. cheers Quoting cath nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Has anyone else seen the show on safety in healthcare tonight on 4 corners. There is an online discussion currently, it's worth a look. Cath -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 4 corners
Great minds, Brenda... - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 4 corners manage my wife's pregnancy Well you would want someone to manage a pregnancy wouldn't you ? God forbid that a woman should 'manage' herself Especially 'YOUR WIFES' (as opposed to something she has ownership of, he obviously owns her doesn't he, so by default he also owns her pregnancy)? OBs would have their income dramatically reduced if more women owned their bodies! Tragic ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 4 corners The show last night was fascinating, and very true: believing that good doctors are incapable of human error is very dangerous. Here's an interesting reply that will raise the eyebrows of more than a few of you! What a pity the forum is now closed. You are correct ; the doctor is not always right. However I believe that doctors are still the health care specialist with the most training. An average specialty registrar will have a 6 year degree, 1 year internship and 2- 3 year residency, and a few more years doing their registrar training. This averages 10 years study. Consultants (obstetricians) are hence 14 or 15 years worth of training prior to being allowed to practice independently. Midwifery care is less study. As a result, midwives are cheaper for the government, and in most cases can do well at a significant cost reduction to the government. However the argument goes that midwives cannot manage critically unwell patients. Whilst these cases are rarer, they are more likely to be fatal. I would rather have an obstetrician manage my wife's pregnancy until such a time that midwives receive training in keeping with consultants and/or can do caesarean sections and operative management of patients. cheers Quoting cath nolan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Has anyone else seen the show on safety in healthcare tonight on 4 corners. There is an online discussion currently, it's worth a look. Cath -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation
I wouldn't contribute my baby's cord blood because that blood belongs to my baby, and that's where it's going, every last drop until it stops by itself and the placenta comes away naturally. Cord blood donation requires early cord clamping which for reasons I probably don't have to explain to those on this list is not something I would subject my child to. To my knowledge, cord blood is the best locale of stem cells, but it's not the ONLY one; there are other methods of obtaining them. So I can't see any good reason to prematurely amputate my child from their life source at birth (carrying all the risks to their health and wellbeing that come with this practice) and give their cord blood to someone else for their possible health and wellbeing; it doesn't seem logical to me as a Mother. - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation I have been asked this would be very interested to hear others views. I am fairly sure she means CB donation, not storage of blood for later use for her children. I've been meaning to ask you for a while about cord blood donation and in particular why people don't seem to do it. I picked up a brochure from the hospital and read it. I think I want to do it since it will otherwise just end up in the bin but am just wondering whether others know more about it and are therefore opting not to do it. Can you tell me what the cons of doing it are or the possible controversial issues. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation
Personally my future births will be Lotus Births, so again, cord blood donation is not something that fits into my beliefs or research in that regard. However, I'm interested to hear that you've witnessed cord blood collection done with a physiological third stage. To my understanding, the instructions that come with a CBR kit state as soon as possible in regard to when to collect the blood; and all the accounts of cord blood collection I've seen/read have had actively managed third stages with the length of time ranging from 15 second to 1 - 2 minutes at absolute maximum. This leads me to believe that STANDARD practice for cord blood collection involves actively managed third stage and premature amputation of placenta/cord. If this is not the case I'd be delighted! Also, the literature seems to indicate you need to collect about 150cc; would this be possible in truly delayed cord clamping (5 minutes or even an hour is not really delayed clamping; often the cord is still pulsing at the umbilicus for 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 or more hours). Another thought I've seen expressed and that I see merit in is that according to the Red Cross, To give blood, you must be healthy, at least 17 years old, and weigh at least 110 pounds. Most babies at birth are unstable, 0 minutes old and weigh less than 10 pounds. Do we have a right to make our newborns become blood donors? Another issue that springs to mind (and this is just thinking aloud), is the potential drug content of the blood in cases where the Mother has accepted drugs during labour. Would this have any impact? Many people consume their placentas (partially or fully) as an aide against haemmorhage; or freeze them, to do with them later what they AND the child who lived in the placenta decide then. Or they bury them as homage to their child and a symbolic returning to the Earth from whence they came. In these cases, one would assume the cord clamping (if done at all) was GENUINELY delayed (ie: hours, at least); so the baby has been truly given all they need and are entitled to from their placenta before it is removed (if removed at all, rather than left to come away naturally). This is a different matter to cutting the cord and removing blood from it/the placenta to be given to another (most likely unknown) individual at a later date. - Original Message - From: Belinda Maier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation My experience with mothers doing this was not of early cord clamping but of physiological 3rd stage. We would have to wait for the lab person to come so the cord was clamped and cut when they got there and had stopped pulsating. The blood obviously does not flow (for the collection) as quick but unless a woman wanted a lotus birth, for retrieving cord blood cells it is the best of both worlds. Obviously little can be done if the placenta simply births. The aim is to get the blood from the placenta not the baby. Once the baby gets what it needs and the cord stops beating then to my mind it is like donating breast milk; beautiful, rich; life giving and invaluable to the recipient. The concept of the blood belonging to the baby it interests me. i agree absolutely in the case of cord clamping before the cord has stopped pulsating. But even if we bury the placenta we are returning it to the earth, if we use placenta/woman/baby blood and use it on a person as we all die then eventually it will still be returned to the earth. Belinda Stephen Felicity wrote: I wouldn't contribute my baby's cord blood because that blood belongs to my baby, and that's where it's going, every last drop until it stops by itself and the placenta comes away naturally. Cord blood donation requires early cord clamping which for reasons I probably don't have to explain to those on this list is not something I would subject my child to. To my knowledge, cord blood is the best locale of stem cells, but it's not the ONLY one; there are other methods of obtaining them. So I can't see any good reason to prematurely amputate my child from their life source at birth (carrying all the risks to their health and wellbeing that come with this practice) and give their cord blood to someone else for their possible health and wellbeing; it doesn't seem logical to me as a Mother. - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation I have been asked this would be very interested to hear others views. I am fairly sure she means CB donation, not storage of blood for later use for her children. I've been meaning to ask you for a while about cord blood donation and in particular why people don't seem to do it. I picked up a brochure from the hospital and read it. I think I want
Re: [ozmidwifery] List working properly???
The emails that I am aware of not getting through have often been involving the same group of people, and/or regarding birth trauma, the ethics of choice, and then there is also mine and Janet's recent emails on birthplans (I've had two emails not appear yesterday, one was a follow up to David's commentary on the ethics of choice, and one was a response to Kelly's further query about Birthplans). Are other people having the same difficulty, or are specific emails being singled out and removed? This is highly frustrating and needs to be remedied for the list to function fairly and effectively. It's happening a lot right now but it's occurred multiple times historically too. - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] List working properly??? I often get the feeling that not all posts make it through, I see replies to messages that I never received etc. At 11:38 PM +1000 23/6/06, Great Birth Men at Birth wrote: G'day, I'm aware that a few people have sent responses to my post of 20 June entitled Consumer demand for inductions and caesareans but they never appeared on the list (I got sent them personally when they didn't appear) Has the list been malfunctioning in the last few days? Cheers David David Vernon, Editor and Writer http://www.acmi.org.au/greatbirth.htmHaving a Great Birth in Australia, http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htmMen at Birth, http://web.mac.com/david.vernon/iWeb/With%20WomenWith Women - Shiftwork to Group Practice and http://web.mac.com/david.vernon/iWeb/The Hunt for Marasmus GPO Box 2314, Canberra ACT 2601, Australia Em: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Click here to email me My other websites: http://web.mac.com/david.vernon/iWeb/Kitty%20and%20%20MausKitty Maus | http://web.mac.com/david.vernon/iWeb/Beryl%27s%20%20HansardBeryl's Hansard | http://web.mac.com/david.vernon/iWeb/Busy%20Dad%27s%20Guide%20to%20CookingBusy Dad's Guide to Cooking | _ -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
I'm really sorry to hear that Pinky; I hope he is recovering well and you both have all the support you need. Best wishes to you both. - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! I would love to be going and got info from sarah Buckl;ey last week but things have been a bit 'hairy' here to say theleast.my husband had a heart attack on friday so unfortunately I wont be there. Pinky - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Are many Ozmidders going to the conference? Sue - Original Message - From: Sally-Anne Brown To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold ! Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only20spacesleft for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded at www.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloonsand banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brown for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team. 04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?
I believe that seemingly small things, likesoftening theterm"birthplan" into something along the lines ofbirth "preferences", etc,further undermines and weakens the power a woman has to demand what she wants for her care, and firmly expect to receive it. "Preferences" denotes a level of being ok with someone delivering less than your "preferred" care - it's "preferred", but not "compulsory". Women are already in an extremelyvulnerable and disempowered position in a Hospital environment. Let's not increase that by encouraging a lack of strength in the way they describe what they want. It shouldn't have to be about pleasing the staff or making them feel warm and fuzzy in order for the woman to receive the care she deserves and wants. If things deviate from the birthplan (with the birthing woman's genuine consent), it's not about blame or retribution. We just want our care to match our needs. Simple, and not too much to ask. I don't understand the complaint about birthplans being "too long", either. Unless they're a 20 page War and Peace epic (and I've never seen one exceed 4 - 5 pages), it's quite simplyNOT THAT HARD to flick through, locate the relevant point, and do your best to adhere to it. There's farbulkier Hospy paperwork whipped out and leafed throughduring birth. Most "long" (4 - 5 page) BPs are divided into specific sections which make it even easier to spot the precise area you're looking for at the time. I don't see taking one or two minutes to check a woman's BP to be too much to ask. In an extreme emergency situation, the CP should be thoroughly well versed with the BP anyway; so they should have a fairly good idea of what is desired, even in the heat of the moment. The birthing woman will hopefully also have support people there who can assist in referencing the BP in any situation. In all reality it's usuallythe "well informed" women who write "long" BPs so is the resentment of BPs we see sometimesin fact a subtle dig at women daring to know their rights, their facts, and demand nothing less? How can we be anything less than detailed about one of the most specific and important moments of our lives that involves the wellbeing of Mother, baby, and potentiallythe extended family and friends? It might make things a little "harder" on the CP (though I REALLY don't see how), but why should the birthing woman have to care, quite frankly? Women aren't stupid. We know that if something in birth goes haywire, and we hadn't expected it or thought about our desires in that situation, then we go with what we believe is best at the time (considering our careprovider's advicewhen makingour final decision). We understand birth is a fluid, changeable and highly unique event, every time. We don't expect to beunable to change our mind about something we included on our plan. We don't need to be coy about asking for what we want; it's fairly obvious who that level of shillyshallying suits - and it's not birthing women. Imagine birthing women reading Hospy birth protocols and complaining they were "too long", "too concrete", and suggesting wording rehashing. They'd be laughed out of town...but they're the ones giving birth, and it's ok for US to question THEIR birth documents? - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans? I always emphasise to women that one of the reasons they need a birth plan to birth in an institution is that the careprovider has one and their birth will run to it if they don't provide an alternative. Let's not kid ourselves that birth plans are respected though when even basic stuff like "Please don't offer me drugs I will ask if I require pain relief" is ignored so frequently. Birth plans SHOULD be treated with the same respect that living wills are accorded and until then they are too often used as a way to pacify women and make them feel that their birth is under their control when it isn't. I've heard from too many women who've had birth plans laughed at and actually even ripped up in front of them. I also recommend to women that they take their birth plan to "important people" in the institution and have it signed so that in labour there are no arguments about having aspects of it implemented that are not usual - no drugs, physiological third stage, no vit k or hep b etc. It's worth considering the argument in "Birthing from Within" that writing a birth plan indicates mistrust of the CP. I don't agree necessarily although experience has shown that institutions don't cope at all well in general with women having plans so perhaps the argument has something to it. I know that home birth plans, for example, look VERY different because women are able to assume that their wishes will
Re: [ozmidwifery] Balancing work and family New Idea article andwebsite for feedback
Title: Balancing work and family New Idea article and website for feedback ...and let's not forgetrebates for homebirth, and support for MIPPs. :o) - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:12 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Balancing work and family New Idea article andwebsite for feedback Dear AllNew Idea is asking women to let our abour women pollies know what we want. How about giving them a blast with 1-2-1 midwifery care.http://www.newidea.com.au/display.cfm?objectid=5D0C151E-82F9-4F30-B7EA286E2F0D01B4 http://www.newidea.com.au/display.cfm?objectid=5D0C151E-82F9-4F30-B7EA286E2F0D01B4 JCJustine CainesNational Policy Co-ordinatorMaternity Coalition IncPO Box 625SCONE NSW 2329Ph: (02) 65453612Fax: (02)65482902Mob: 0408 210273E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.maternitycoalition.org.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?
Interesting, Megan. The thing that is alarming to mein this scenario is not thepossiblecash motivation, but the fact that "scheduling" and "delaying" birth is considered to be something we as human beings have a right to do as a normal part of our birthing processes. Also the "tsk tsk for shame" in this article seems to be solely directed at the birthing women, and not the professionals willing to intervene in the birth process to suit a timetable. Women aren't doing their own Inductions and Caesareans. - Original Message - From: Megan Larry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used? We talk about choices, but look what we will do for free cash ??? Megan (whose 4th was bornon histiming2 weeks before the magic date) Baby bonus creates hospital havoc18jun06 THE introduction of the baby bonus on July 1, 2004, caused more than 1000 scheduled births to be delayed, a new study shows.In its May 2004 Budget, the Federal Government announced a maternity payment $3,000 for every baby born on or after July 1. Research by Melbourne Business School economist Professor Joshua Gans and Australian National University economist Dr Andrew Leigh has shown there were more births on July 1, 2004, than on any other single date in the past 30 years. "We estimate that around 700 births were shifted from the last week of June 2004 into the first week of July 2004," Dr Leigh said. "But more troublingly, we found that around 300 births were moved by more than two weeks." The researchers also found that the share of births that were induced or delivered by caesarean section was high in July 2004. Dr Leigh said hospitals needed to plan for July 1 this year, when the bonus rises from $3,000 to $4,000. "Maternity hospitals should expect fewer babies in the last week of June and more in the first week of July," Dr Leigh said.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff
"if we trulysupport choice then surely even 'bad' choices should be respected?" Why? Solely in the name of blindly supporting "choice" as a concept? How does this benefit Mothers and babes?We also have the choice to beat our children, men have the choice to rape women, and we can also choose to be cruel to helpless animals if we like. Should we respect these "choices" so as to indiscriminately uphold the paradigm of choice? Of course not. Why are innately harmful birthing choices (that affect not only the birthing woman but also her child) any different? If a Mother has made the decision to bring her child to birth, then shouldn't the Mother and babe be able to do so as optimally and safelyas possible - why is the "choice" to do so by mutilation and trauma even available, where it is not optimal practice? Besides which, do women birthing truly have "choice"? Or are the options they are TOLD they have presented to them by a patriarchal system directed at pacifying and controlling them in order to maintain the status quo and secure the balance of power; rewarding "good" (compliant) behaviour and brutally punishing "bad" (well-informed and assertive) behaviour? Women aren't making their "choices" in a vacuum and the incredible external pressures and aggressive campaign of misinformation they face strongly influences any directions they may take. We're far too focused on the choice and not focused enough on the Mothers and babes at the mercy of those choices. We need to stop singing about "choice" and focus on the facts; change the system, squash the misinformation,advocate for safety of Mother and baby, place the power back in their hands, and not be afraid to get REAL. Political correctness has no place in birth and nor does beauracracy. - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff Choice is an interesting concept: if we trulysupport choice then surely even 'bad' choices should be respected? One of our obs has joked about having a sign made for the ANC saying 'please do not ask for an induction as a refusal often offends' because the request comes so often. However, the other obs will often agree to a woman's request without too much argument. I have seen instances where the Ob has told the woman - you are not ready to birth, there is no reason to induce and if we try you will have a lengthy and horrible labour. The reply was "I DONT CARE- I WANT TO BE INDUCED" How can the ob refuse in this instance? The reverse is not true - if a woman reaches T+10 she is booked for IOL - there is little 'choice' within our policy for anyone who wishes to wait longer - despite the evidence or the individual circumstances. Occasionally requests for'social' induction can be for very valid personal reasons and such instances should also be respected. I have discussed with some of our obsthe mentality of agreeing to elective C/S for no other reason than maternal request, given that we are a public hospital -should we bewasting taxpayers money on non-essential surgery etc etc. Again the question of choice. If a woman demands an elective C/S despite discussion of the pros and cons, the usual route is to go with her wishes - presumably for fear of litigation if the birth does not go well. I did challenge one ob who agreed without hesitation to a woman's request for repeat C/S and asked him what his attitude would have been if she had asked for VBAC - did not get much in the way of response! Not saying that I agree with this you understand but it does cause some tricky moral dilemmas. I feel the key issue is one of respect and honest discussion - ah but that is all too often missing within the medical model of care. That and education - women don't know that they have choices to challenge the usual practice of whoever their care provider happens to be, sadly those who do challenge are often seen as 'troublesome radicals' if their challenge is against 'routine' interventions. (Of course they are not seen the same way if their challenge is to request unecessary interventions! :-)) Sue - Original Message - From: Emily To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] ctg stuff hi all i have just finished the 'obstetrics' term of my course and over the 9 weeks i repetitively brought up my disgust with the use of CTGs against all the very high quality evidence that is out there against them, that noone refutes they just ignore. the wonderful obstetrician who was my supervisor (only one ive ever met that i like) agreed and said it is only
Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early
Excellent - when will it be addressed? :) - Original Message - From: Carol Fallows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early Hi Barb, We are aware of the problem with the probiotics ad. Thanks, Carol Carol FallowsFallows AssociatesABN 57 776 135 100Editorial, publishing and PR servicesph. 02 9969 1228 (bh) fax 9969 9526website: www.carolfallows.com.au - Original Message - From: Barbara Glare Chris Bright To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early Hi, I always get a giggle (in a wry sort of way) when I hear it said that the 6mnth regulations are *new*. When my eldest, now 13, was a baby, Nursing Mothers, now the Australian Breastfeeding Association, even then said introduce solids at 6mnth, in line with WHO recommendations. I was sadly harrassed into introducing solids when he was 4 mnths old by my Maternal and child health nurse. The next 2 started solids at 6mnths and probably 8mnts, by the time she got organised. We didn't get Guan til she was 10mnths, but she'd had solids since about 4 mths. They all eat are good eaters, though Zac(the eldest)was picky til he was 8 then would eat anything in the kitchen not nailed down. I remember selecting from the breakfast bar in the big Western style hotel in China, wondering what on earth Guan might eat for breakfast. The young waitress with a look on her face that indicated that westerners had no idea told me firmly that "China babies eat congee" Then chopped up a hardboiled egg into the congee (rice porridge) and srinkled a couple of teaspoons of sugar over the lot and mixed it in. Yup, China babies sure love that. BTW, has Essential Baby done anything about the medically unsubstaniated claim that probiotics in formula are of benefit to babies? Barb - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early I was curious as to what age solids are introduced. As I said, my eldest 3 had solids from about 3 months or so, and no problems. The youngest at about 9 mths, and all sorts of probs getting her to not only eat, but to try to eat. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Carol FallowsSent: Thursday, 8 June 2006 10:53 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early Hi Kelly, In the 1930s babies were not weaned onto solids until they were around eight or nine months and it was a slow process -many were also weaned onto cow's milk at this age. Up until the 1970s it was thought that once a baby had teeth he should be put on the bottle. Weaning onto solids only became a big issue as society became more prosperous after the second world war. It is very interesting to go through some of the old baby books - Spock, early Penelope Leach, Penny Stanway, Christopher Green - it becomes apparent that their attitude to breastfeeding is probably one of the main reasons why babies were not breastfed, why weaning onto solids was introduced far too early and why commercial baby food became 'essential'. On the subject of other cultures, in many Asian countries babies are weaned onto rice foods such as congee which is sieved and mixed with lentil juice, in Africa first food is also rice or maize porridge and in South America it is traditionally corn and potatoes.It seems obvious that babies are weaned onto whatever the staple food is (and quite often it is rice which coincidentally is considered to be the least likely to lead to allergies) . Hope that's helpful Carol Fallows - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Introducing solids too early Hi Kelly, I can'r remember of any studies now, but the book "Rediscovering Birth" by Sheila Kitzinger (I think it was in that one) has interesting information how in different countries we use very different foods to start solids. In Finland the first solids have
Re: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms
Information from the Purebirth (Unassisted Pregnancy and Birth) Australia site on Centrelink payments : http://www.purebirth-australia.com/centrelink.html - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:39 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] new centrelink forms Hi, Anyone out there have any idea how women/couples who choose to birth unattended or with non-registered attendants can get there babies centrelink/medicare form from? Used to be a matter of getting baby sighted by a GP and the appropriate forms signed. The new forms are all registered to the care provider and most GPs don't have them. Any thoughts? Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] students learning
I think perhaps you women are the lucky ones; I only recently had an email from a student midwife in SA, lamenting that she is unable to attend homebirths unless the midwife is publicly employed (ie: not a MIPP). Since the only homebirth midwives employed by the Government in SA are part of the Northern Women's Community Midwifery Program, anyone not fortunate enough to be in that region has zero opportunity to work in all situations. This is clearly an insurance issue as well as an educational institution issue...but it's all one and the same at the end of the day, isn't it? It's all just part of the overall climate for midwifery and birthing women in our country. - Original Message - From: Kirsten Dobbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learning I can back up Kate, (as we attend the same uni!) I have only ever been encouraged and supported to attend births with independent midwives by our uni. Kirsten -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kate and/or Nick Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learning For fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek experience of any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on threat of a fail grade for the clinical topic /or expulsion from the course. While this is the case at one uni, it does not appear to be at the other uni. We have a lay midwife doing the Bmid who will be doing her practicum with an independent midwife. We believe we are able to participate in homebirths, and I am certainly hoping to do just that. Kate -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies(May 24, 2006)
I'm nodding vigorously, Penny and Justine! - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies(May 24, 2006) Beautifully put Penny! Yes where are we when the most important physical and spiritual event is taken away from /handed over by women? I laugh when I hear that Feminism has achieved so much. To me the very essence of womanhood is controlled by at best a very organised patriarchy and at worst totally controlling mysogyny. There's a book in that, but how to make it palatable for women to read!! Ah perhaps that's the 64 million dollar question. I also pondered today if it's all about choice then why is the natural choice denigrated so much (yes due to the controlling interest I know!) But publicly we need to ask that question and KEEP informing anyone we can that until all choice is respected and funded then we cannot say women have choice or determine that women are really making a choice! JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Down came the rain
I found it difficult to relate to this book after the points where Brooke talked about Ferberising her baby, and her agreement to appear in a series of TV ads endorsing formula, as well as her decisions regarding early weaning and formula top-ups...in short, a lot of hazardous parenting information in the book! I was also surprised that (in my opinion) the book didn't actually give all that much insight or information related to PND at all; more a documented memoir of Brooke's conception, pregnancy, birth and early parenting experiences as a whole (which obviously are pertinent to her PND, but the book just didn't seem to take it all to the conclusion of providing something valuable about PND). I wouldn't personally recommend this book (I threw it at the wall several times myself) as a truly helpful book for Mothers suffering PND. - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Down came the rain Hi all, I am curious to know if anyone has read the Brooke Shields book Down came the rain. I would like to know what kind of view she has on the postnatal depression, and is this the kind of book you would recommend to a mother with postnatal depression? I currently stock this book in my store just because it was translated into Finnish (I think last time they translated any pregnancy related book was some Balaskas in the 80's...) Makes me so mad... Anyway, I haven't had a change to read it myself and I am not too familiar with depression either. But would be helpfull to know if it really is worth recommending. Päivi Childbirth Educator Finland -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth
Or is she trying to establish the percentage of births that are intervened with that actually genuinely NEEDED the intervention? That would be nigh on impossible to obtain honest statistics on... In terms of how many women actually get to birth without intervention, I know the Hospital figure is somewhere around 3 - 5%, but can't remember where the research substantiating that figure lies...anyone? A dismally small amount, in any case. - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth What she is asking is how many women actually get to birth without interventions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:47 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth Surely if they are (natural, normal, unintervened) it means they don't' need medical assistance? What is the real question? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Friday, 19 May 2006 7:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth Request from another list: Most specifically, I'm looking for what percentage of births actually need intervention/medical assistance. There's a tricky one! -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth
WHO care in labour recommendations (there's quite a bit of reading involved from chapter to chapter):- http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_96_24/MSM_96_24_Chapter1.en.html - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth Does the WHO have recommendations on the percentage of women that are likely need help? At 10:53 AM +0930 19/5/06, Dean Jo wrote: What she is asking is how many women actually get to birth without interventions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:47 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth Surely if they are (natural, normal, unintervened) it means they don't' need medical assistance? What is the real question? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Friday, 19 May 2006 7:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Natural Birth Request from another list: Most specifically, I'm looking for what percentage of births actually need intervention/medical assistance. There's a tricky one! -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
