Re: [PD] some issues with dynamic patching

[Enrique Erne]

If you need to stick to vanilla Pure Data you could try
https://github.com/eerne/Pd-Dom which handles DSP tree update and
loadbang for you as well as mass chaining of many abstractions.

[set 0 rythm(
 |
 |[chain sound sound sound(
 | /
[pd-dom id]
 | \
[adc~]


(hope my ascii art just works)

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[PD] weird behavior with dynamically created abstractions (sound doesn't work)

[Enrique Erne]

I added another example for stereo https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom .

[pddom2] needed some modification too, maybe that was giving you an error?



On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Alexandros Drymonitis  wrote:
> Thanks for that. Using the two outputs of the four channel version works in
> stereo now just fine. When I try to delete two outputs and inputs from
> [pddom2.from~] and [pddom2.to~] respectively, it won't work anymore. Is what
> I say clear?...
> Anyway, I guess this way it's fine. Thanks again.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Enrique Erne  wrote:
>>
>> Alexandros, Thanks for reporting, somehow it was registering as
>> no-audio abstraction. This commit should fix it:
>>
>> https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom/commit/b901f9f66b95e7efb244e27901b4d4dbd2a8bbfd
>>
>> Please try the newest verison @ https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom
>> and let me know if that works for you. I suggest to:
>> - copy/paste the abstractions form examples/multichannel into your project
>> - rename the abstractions to pddom2.to~ / pddom2.from~
>> - remove the unused 2 outlets~ s~/r~ parts
>>
>> Let me know if that works for you, I will have time tomorrow during
>> the day to have a look at it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Alexandros Drymonitis 
>> wrote:
>> > Enrique, I've been playing around with pddom and it works very nicely, I
>> > only have trouble making it stereo. I tried to follow the
>> > examples/multi/pd-dom4-help.pd changing it a bit to make it stereo, but
>> > it
>> > won't really work. Is it something to do with the right most outlet of
>> > [pddom.from~] that connects to the right most inlet of [pddom.to~] in
>> > the
>> > mono version? In you multichannel version there are only tilde outlets
>> > in
>> > [pddom4.from~] and the right most inlet of [pddom4.to~] receives
>> > nothing. I
>> > tried to modify it accordingly but with no luck.
>> > Could you help?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Enrique Erne 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > how can you control the abstractions you add to nodes, say with a
>> >> > slider? Or do you have to create your nodes with abstractions with
>> >> > arguments
>> >> > (like the proposed method in the readme file) and that should be it?
>> >>
>> >> (I forgot to hit reply to all)
>> >>
>> >> It depends on your needs, but [pddom] does not help you building the
>> >> interface. The examples/ui illustrates simple ways of controlling the
>> >> dynamically created abstractions with 1 interface.
>> >>
>> >> Another way is to use the abstractions own window, that you can open
>> >> with [vis $1( where $1 is the position (number) of the instantiated
>> >> abstraction. This is of corse if you don't mind having each interface
>> >> in it's own window.
>> >>
>> >> To locate and open exactly the one abstraction vis send a [; $1.$2.vis
>> >> findparent( command to [namecanvas $1.$2.vis]. This is the only reason
>> >> why there is a [namecanvas] inside [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~].
>> >> This also requires [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~] to be located in the
>> >> main canvas of each abstraction and not hidden somewhere deeper.
>> >>
>> >> How are you planing to use pddom? Do you open the same abstraction
>> >> multiple times or do you wish to combine many different abstractions
>> >> with their own user interface?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > The only bad thing is the dsp having to go off and on again.
>> >>
>> >> If you are on OS X turning off/on DSP
>> >> takes a long time (or at least it used to take over 100ms a few years
>> >> ago). On other operating systems it was never a problem iirc.
>> >>
>> >> You could try and increase the Delay time under Audio Settings and
>> >> test if that helps.
>> >>
>> >> Alternatively there is another "trick" that works without turning
>> >> off/on DSP, this is creating 1 ~ object and deleting it again. See
>> >> also tests/basic/test-dsp-update~.pd
>> >> It disables the internal off/on update mechanism by [dsp_ disable( and
>> >> uses a subpatch for the DSP tree update workaround. See [pd
>> >> dsp-tree-update-workaround], but all your messages that change the DSP
>> >> tree need to go through that subpatch.
>> >
>> >
>
>

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Re: [PD] weird behavior with dynamically created abstractions (sound doesn't work)

[Enrique Erne]

Alexandros, Thanks for reporting, somehow it was registering as
no-audio abstraction. This commit should fix it:
https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom/commit/b901f9f66b95e7efb244e27901b4d4dbd2a8bbfd

Please try the newest verison @ https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom
and let me know if that works for you. I suggest to:
- copy/paste the abstractions form examples/multichannel into your project
- rename the abstractions to pddom2.to~ / pddom2.from~
- remove the unused 2 outlets~ s~/r~ parts

Let me know if that works for you, I will have time tomorrow during
the day to have a look at it.



On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Alexandros Drymonitis  wrote:
> Enrique, I've been playing around with pddom and it works very nicely, I
> only have trouble making it stereo. I tried to follow the
> examples/multi/pd-dom4-help.pd changing it a bit to make it stereo, but it
> won't really work. Is it something to do with the right most outlet of
> [pddom.from~] that connects to the right most inlet of [pddom.to~] in the
> mono version? In you multichannel version there are only tilde outlets in
> [pddom4.from~] and the right most inlet of [pddom4.to~] receives nothing. I
> tried to modify it accordingly but with no luck.
> Could you help?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Enrique Erne  wrote:
>>
>> > how can you control the abstractions you add to nodes, say with a
>> > slider? Or do you have to create your nodes with abstractions with 
>> > arguments
>> > (like the proposed method in the readme file) and that should be it?
>>
>> (I forgot to hit reply to all)
>>
>> It depends on your needs, but [pddom] does not help you building the
>> interface. The examples/ui illustrates simple ways of controlling the
>> dynamically created abstractions with 1 interface.
>>
>> Another way is to use the abstractions own window, that you can open
>> with [vis $1( where $1 is the position (number) of the instantiated
>> abstraction. This is of corse if you don't mind having each interface
>> in it's own window.
>>
>> To locate and open exactly the one abstraction vis send a [; $1.$2.vis
>> findparent( command to [namecanvas $1.$2.vis]. This is the only reason
>> why there is a [namecanvas] inside [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~].
>> This also requires [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~] to be located in the
>> main canvas of each abstraction and not hidden somewhere deeper.
>>
>> How are you planing to use pddom? Do you open the same abstraction
>> multiple times or do you wish to combine many different abstractions
>> with their own user interface?
>>
>>
>> > The only bad thing is the dsp having to go off and on again.
>>
>> If you are on OS X turning off/on DSP
>> takes a long time (or at least it used to take over 100ms a few years
>> ago). On other operating systems it was never a problem iirc.
>>
>> You could try and increase the Delay time under Audio Settings and
>> test if that helps.
>>
>> Alternatively there is another "trick" that works without turning
>> off/on DSP, this is creating 1 ~ object and deleting it again. See
>> also tests/basic/test-dsp-update~.pd
>> It disables the internal off/on update mechanism by [dsp_ disable( and
>> uses a subpatch for the DSP tree update workaround. See [pd
>> dsp-tree-update-workaround], but all your messages that change the DSP
>> tree need to go through that subpatch.
>
>

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Re: [PD] weird behavior with dynamically created abstractions (sound doesn't work)

[Enrique Erne]

> how can you control the abstractions you add to nodes, say with a slider? Or 
> do you have to create your nodes with abstractions with arguments (like the 
> proposed method in the readme file) and that should be it?

(I forgot to hit reply to all)

It depends on your needs, but [pddom] does not help you building the
interface. The examples/ui illustrates simple ways of controlling the
dynamically created abstractions with 1 interface.

Another way is to use the abstractions own window, that you can open
with [vis $1( where $1 is the position (number) of the instantiated
abstraction. This is of corse if you don't mind having each interface
in it's own window.

To locate and open exactly the one abstraction vis send a [; $1.$2.vis
findparent( command to [namecanvas $1.$2.vis]. This is the only reason
why there is a [namecanvas] inside [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~].
This also requires [pddom.from] and [pddom.from~] to be located in the
main canvas of each abstraction and not hidden somewhere deeper.

How are you planing to use pddom? Do you open the same abstraction
multiple times or do you wish to combine many different abstractions
with their own user interface?


> The only bad thing is the dsp having to go off and on again.

If you are on OS X turning off/on DSP
takes a long time (or at least it used to take over 100ms a few years
ago). On other operating systems it was never a problem iirc.

You could try and increase the Delay time under Audio Settings and
test if that helps.

Alternatively there is another "trick" that works without turning
off/on DSP, this is creating 1 ~ object and deleting it again. See
also tests/basic/test-dsp-update~.pd
It disables the internal off/on update mechanism by [dsp_ disable( and
uses a subpatch for the DSP tree update workaround. See [pd
dsp-tree-update-workaround], but all your messages that change the DSP
tree need to go through that subpatch.

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Re: [PD] weird behavior with dynamically created abstractions (sound doesn't work)

[Enrique Erne]

You could try https://github.com/thisconnect/pddom
It should take care about:
- updating DSP tree after adding removing an abstraction
- firing loadbang
- sets senders and receivers so you can send a signal from one
abstraction directly to the next one


On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Ángel Faraldo  wrote:
> Thanks for your replies,
>
> indeed I was reading on the list and there are various threads on this
> topic. Apologies for re-asking old threads.
>
> In my current project, I wasn't planning to create the objects with messages
> (obj ... ... ..., i.e. dynamic patching) but manually adding objects which
> produce sound on the fly.
>
> Therefore, [initbang] doesn't make a difference here, because loadbangs are
> actually initialized when loading an abstraction manually, and turning dsp
> audio off and on produces a longer-than-desirable silence gap when I create
> a new abstraction, so although advisable on regular situations, it doesn't
> seem to be the solution here.
>
> So, although maybe not the most elegant, I've managed to solve it by sending
> the abstraction's [loadbang] to the main patch to dynamically save the
> latter. This way I get the sound of the abstraction immediately.
>
> Cheers and thanks again.
>
> ángel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 14/11/2012, at 12:03, Alexandros Drymonitis wrote:
>
> Or use [initbang]...after i go banana's reply I searched a bit and found out
> that my question has also been answered. It won't be vanilla though, but
> anyway I'm using extended..
>
> Cheers
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Cyrille Henry  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 14/11/2012 11:30, Alexandros Drymonitis a écrit :
>>
>>> I tried your patch and the problem you mention does occur. I've no idea
>>> why and how to solve this, but I'm also getting some strange behavior with
>>> live patching. In my case [loadbang] won't work...
>>>
>> when sending message to pd to create objects, one also have to manually
>> send the loadbang messages.
>> reasons are details in the archive.
>> [loadbang bang<
>> |
>> [s pd-foo]
>>
>> cheers
>> c
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Ángel Faraldo >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> I've been increasingly working with dynamic patching and there is an
>>> issue that don't understand in relation with creating multiple audio
>>> abstractions...
>>>
>>> Imagine I put an oscillator inside an abstraction and I recall one
>>> instance of it from the main patch (already computing audio). This is what
>>> happens:
>>>
>>> The abstraction will not produce sound until I:
>>>
>>> a) save the patch
>>> b) create another abstraction with the same name (another audio
>>> object will not work)
>>> c) I click on a already existing object in the main patch (clicking
>>> on the canvas will not work either)
>>> d) I un-compute and re-compute audio (which is not desirable)
>>>
>>> I attach an example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any insights or ideas about how to solve this?
>>>
>>> with kind regards,
>>>
>>> Angel Faraldo
>>> _
>>> www.angelfaraldo.info 
>>>
>>>
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[PD] Random number generation quest

[Enrique Erne]

Hi List!

Can a random number form 0 to 100 be generated with the following requirements:

  - No externals / Vanilla Pd only
  - DSP must be off
  - The patch is loaded with Pd through command line interface i.e.
`pd -noprefs -nogui givemerandom.pd`
  - The output should not always be the same number

Thanks for looking into it

eni

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Re: [PD] Pd-Dom for abstraction chaining

[Enrique Erne]

On 13/03/2010 11:15, Marco Donnarumma wrote:

The focus of Pd-Dom is very different though, it does dynamically
"chain" abstractions that send and receive audio. It handles also
loadbang to the freshly created instances. This should all be error free
and within 0 latency (using subpatches).




Hi Enrique, Pd-Dom works looks great, thanks for sharing it. Just a question
(I know i should simply try it myself, but I don't have the time atm,
apologies)...
Can Pd-Dom manage GOP abstractions with different dimension than a non-GOP
object?
I'm curious 'cause I'm actually working on something really similar to
Pd-Dom but with a slightly different approach. I'm trying to use dynamic
patching to easily build GUI chains with whatever GOP abstraction.
I use unofficial dyn-patching methods too, and iemguts. although I still
have to fix few bugs the method works pretty fine so far.
So now I wonder whether implement your Pd-Dom..
thanks,


Hi Marco

As I mentioned before:
> Pd-Dom itself has actually nothing to do with GUI.
:)

All the created abstractions are hidden in subpatches for signal-flow 
reasons, so they can't be GOP.


There is one, in "examples/04.gui2.pd" that does create a GUI. The 
created abstraction adds 2 sliders to a GOP in the main patch. Each 
instance sets the y position by knowing it's own position in the chain.


If they would have variable height this wouldn't work, instead I'd try 
to keep track of the height and y position with a [value] object.


Deleting one instance would have to redraw the whole GOP, which is a bit 
ugly but would work.


Did you manage to delete in your aproach?

Cheers
eni






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Re: [PD] Pd-Dom for abstraction chaining

[Enrique Erne]

GridFlow 0.9.7 has [#many], which is an abstraction that makes a GOP
with many IEMGUI together. It doesn't support abstractions yet, which
requires some extra hacks that I'm adding soon. But I'm using several
externals for doing all that, because doing it without externals is too
limited to my taste.



This sounds very promising. I can imagine that without externals it is 
way to limited. Especially deleting/changing existing stuff.


The focus of Pd-Dom is very different though, it does dynamically 
"chain" abstractions that send and receive audio. It handles also 
loadbang to the freshly created instances. This should all be error free 
and within 0 latency (using subpatches).


Pd-Dom itself has actually nothing to do with GUI.

An example usage could be dynamically chaining of:
[tone-generator] -> [filter] -> [envelope] -> [effect]
or an FM orgy.

All you need at the moment is an [pdom.r~] and [pdom.s~] inside your 
abstraction (this abs name subject to change). Each abstraction instance 
gets a $1 parameter and can be loaded (multiple times) in parallel. So 
you could do:


[mega-synth] -> [delay] -> [mega-synth] -> [delay] -> [delay]

Whether the abstraction adds to the incoming signal or modifies it, has 
to be decided by the abstraction author. IMO a compressor/limiter should 
change the incoming signal (*~), whereas a synth should only add signal 
(+~).


Pd-Dom can also mixin abstractions that don't do dsp, and wont waste any 
cpu on additional send and receives. just use pd-dom.r (without the ~)


One of the examples does dynamically create a GUI for testing purpose, 
but I think the examples should not have any dependencies on externals.
Naturally if one would write an example using gridflow, I would like to 
add it. Just fork it on git and send me a pull request! :)


At the moment Pd-Dom has 3 methods (messages) "add", "delete" and "set", 
that allow you to add an abstraction to the sound-chain or delete/set an 
existing one. There is some additional methods like vis that lets you 
open a specific instance of one instantiated abstraction.


Pd-Dom for now is build with unofficial dyn-patching methods and works 
with Pd-Vanilla. In the future I'd like to build it, additionally, on 
top of dyn~. This with exactly same API so it works on both or fallback 
to pd-vanilla.


eni


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[PD] Pd-Dom for abstraction chaining

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Pd-List

I haven't been on this list for almost a year and have a patch laying 
around that I wanted to share.


Pd-Dom provides simple methods to create, chain and remove abstractions 
dynamically.


http://github.com/eerne/Pd-Dom

The 3 most important messages are "add", "set" and "remove", for the 
rest it is still a beta and subject to slightly change.


some of the examples aren't working atm. check out pd-dom-help.pd and 
examples/04.gui2.pd


Let me know if there is already a similar project.
(since i haven't followed the list, sorry!)

Cheers
eni


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Re: [PD] meta-instrument pure data project

[Enrique Erne]

hi
I get a 404 with your link :(


Ed Kelly wrote:

Hi,

I've been working on this for 5 years.

You, and many pd people can download the pre-release of metastudio 3 here:
http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/metastudio-029.tar.gz

I would dearly love others to contribute, and I'll hopefully be presenting the 
software at the Sao Paulo PD convention this year if I can find the money to 
get there.

It'll be in the subversion repository when v3 is done, along with a guide to 
the principles by which metastudio objects might be developed by others (i.e. I 
don't want to be the only one doing this any more), so there are some ways in 
which I'm trying to create more than just a set of objects (check out 
metapatch.pd)

I'm working on help files for all objects. Some are quite complex (such as the 
sequencing objects that require two storage objects for the whole database and 
an exra one for the current pattern) but there is a whole lot of functionality 
built in, such as a new patern copies the current pattern, and user-defined 
modular synthesis patches can have state-saving mechanisms (modpatch.pd)

Sorry it's not all there, but it will be by the PD convention (19th-26h July, 
Sao Paulo, Brazil)

As for Metavj, well, that'll be finished also. No help files yet, sorry!

Ed

--- On Thu, 21/5/09, FernandoG  wrote:


From: FernandoG 
Subject: [PD] meta-instrument pure data project
To: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 7:40 PM
Hi

Anybody knows about a meta-instrument pure data project
like lloop
max/msp collaborative project ? is out there  something
like that?



thanks

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Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.41.4 release candidate 2

[Enrique Erne]

Yes you are right. It only happens with GOP abstractions.


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Hmm, I can't reproduce it with Pd version 0.41.4-extended-rc1 on Mac OS 
X 10.5.7/Intel.  I attached my test patches, basically, I opened myabs, 
modified it, closed it.  Then closed test.pd.  myabs.pd was opened, with 
a prompt to save it.




.hc


On May 17, 2009, at 5:31 AM, Enrique Erne wrote:


Sorry to spam, I am not fully awake atm :)

In Pd-0.42.5 there is comes a dialog but only when the abstraction is 
already visible.


If the abstraction is not visible:
- closing the patch, makes the abs visible but no dialog appears
- trying to quit Pd prints "consistency check failed: canvas_vis"



Enrique Erne wrote:

Little correction:
In Pd-0.42-5 actually we have the same problem when trying to quit 
Pd. There is a console meassge: "consistency check failed: canvas_vis"
When closing the patch in Pd-0.42-5 then the abstraction pops up, 
this with the dialog "do you want to save the changes you made" would 
be the correct behavior in my opinion.

Enrique Erne wrote:

Hi Hans

There is a little annoying bug with the dialog
"do you want to save the changes you made" with abstractions.

If the abstraction isn't visible the dialog doesn't appear.
When trying to close the patch or quiting pd, nothing happens.

This is with Pd-0.41.4-extended-rc2-macosx105-i386.dmg from
http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/latest/

In Pd-0.42-5 the window of the abstraction gets visible when quiting 
Pd  or closing the patch. I tested with GOP abstractions, but I 
guess the same happens with no GOP as well.






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kill your television





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Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.41.4 release candidate 2

[Enrique Erne]

Sorry to spam, I am not fully awake atm :)

In Pd-0.42.5 there is comes a dialog but only when the abstraction is 
already visible.


If the abstraction is not visible:
- closing the patch, makes the abs visible but no dialog appears
- trying to quit Pd prints "consistency check failed: canvas_vis"



Enrique Erne wrote:

Little correction:

In Pd-0.42-5 actually we have the same problem when trying to quit Pd. 
There is a console meassge: "consistency check failed: canvas_vis"


When closing the patch in Pd-0.42-5 then the abstraction pops up, this 
with the dialog "do you want to save the changes you made" would be the 
correct behavior in my opinion.





Enrique Erne wrote:

Hi Hans

There is a little annoying bug with the dialog
"do you want to save the changes you made" with abstractions.

If the abstraction isn't visible the dialog doesn't appear.
When trying to close the patch or quiting pd, nothing happens.

This is with Pd-0.41.4-extended-rc2-macosx105-i386.dmg from
http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/latest/

In Pd-0.42-5 the window of the abstraction gets visible when quiting 
Pd  or closing the patch. I tested with GOP abstractions, but I guess 
the same happens with no GOP as well.









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Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.41.4 release candidate 2

[Enrique Erne]

Little correction:

In Pd-0.42-5 actually we have the same problem when trying to quit Pd. 
There is a console meassge: "consistency check failed: canvas_vis"


When closing the patch in Pd-0.42-5 then the abstraction pops up, this 
with the dialog "do you want to save the changes you made" would be the 
correct behavior in my opinion.





Enrique Erne wrote:

Hi Hans

There is a little annoying bug with the dialog
"do you want to save the changes you made" with abstractions.

If the abstraction isn't visible the dialog doesn't appear.
When trying to close the patch or quiting pd, nothing happens.

This is with Pd-0.41.4-extended-rc2-macosx105-i386.dmg from
http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/latest/

In Pd-0.42-5 the window of the abstraction gets visible when quiting Pd 
 or closing the patch. I tested with GOP abstractions, but I guess the 
same happens with no GOP as well.






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[PD] Pd-extended 0.41.4 release candidate 2

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Hans

There is a little annoying bug with the dialog
"do you want to save the changes you made" with abstractions.

If the abstraction isn't visible the dialog doesn't appear.
When trying to close the patch or quiting pd, nothing happens.

This is with Pd-0.41.4-extended-rc2-macosx105-i386.dmg from
http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/latest/

In Pd-0.42-5 the window of the abstraction gets visible when quiting Pd 
 or closing the patch. I tested with GOP abstractions, but I guess the 
same happens with no GOP as well.



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Re: [PD] default [output~] in Pd-extended

[Enrique Erne]

hi

I am to writing some example patches, but found the dependency of an 
other abstraction confusing and therefore made [pd output~] as a gop 
subpatch.


It comes in a classic Pd black'n'white look, see attached.

cheers eni
#N canvas 510 50 450 300 10;
#N canvas 40 22 651 595 output~ 0;
#X obj 105 120 vsl 15 64 0 100 0 0 \$0-volume \$0-volume-r Volume 0
-10 0 12 -262144 -1 -1 5310 1;
#X obj 105 210 tgl 15 0 empty empty DSP 19 7 0 12 -262144 -1 -1 1 1
;
#X obj 105 191 bng 15 250 50 0 \$0-mute \$0-mute-r Mute 19 7 0 12 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 410 78 inlet~;
#X obj 242 382 line~;
#X obj 395 449 *~;
#X obj 395 489 dac~;
#X text 331 78 audio in;
#X obj 473 78 inlet~;
#X obj 457 448 *~;
#X obj 410 329 hip~ 3;
#X obj 472 329 hip~ 3;
#X obj 105 279 send pd;
#X obj 242 342 pack 0 50;
#X obj 232 175 dbtorms;
#X obj 233 299 f;
#X obj 261 240 f 0;
#X obj 301 240 == 0;
#X obj 261 270 select 1;
#X text 313 489 audio out;
#X obj 232 75 loadbang;
#X obj 232 105 f 70;
#X obj 104 409 rmstodb;
#X msg 104 440 set \$1;
#X msg 105 249 dsp \$1;
#X obj 252 145 r \$0-volume;
#X obj 261 210 r \$0-mute;
#X obj 104 469 s \$0-volume-r;
#X obj 14 101 r pd;
#X obj 14 131 route dsp;
#X msg 14 161 set \$1;
#X connect 1 0 24 0;
#X connect 3 0 10 0;
#X connect 4 0 9 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 8 0 11 0;
#X connect 9 0 6 1;
#X connect 10 0 5 1;
#X connect 11 0 9 1;
#X connect 13 0 4 0;
#X connect 13 0 22 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 15 0 13 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 16 0 18 0;
#X connect 17 0 16 1;
#X connect 18 0 15 0;
#X connect 18 1 13 0;
#X connect 20 0 21 0;
#X connect 21 0 14 0;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 23 0 27 0;
#X connect 24 0 12 0;
#X connect 25 0 14 0;
#X connect 26 0 16 0;
#X connect 28 0 29 0;
#X connect 29 0 30 0;
#X connect 30 0 1 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 55 130 2 100 100;
#X restore 36 60 pd output~;
#X obj 34 22 osc~ 440;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
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Re: [PD] abstraction creation audio engine start

[Enrique Erne]

hi

afaik, when you create an abstraction, containing audio objects, the 
dsptree doesn't get automatically updated.


either:

you turn off/on pd dsp i.e. with
[;
pd dsp 0, dsp 1(

or create an other audio object and delete it.

or as you found out: connect  two audio objects.


eni




Tuti wrote:

Hi All,
Does anybody know how to solve that one (see below)? I found it posted
awhile ago but (it seems that) it didn't get any reply. Now I'm having
the same problem. Did anybody find a way around that? Any thoughts are
very welcome.
Cheers!

--
Pd-message abstraction creation doesn't start the audio within the abstraction

 Okay, another bug using the Pd messages to create objects.

 If you place an abstraction within a patch using a >obj x y
abstraction| message, the audio for the abstraction doesn't actually
function until you connect two tilde objects within the abstraction; only
then does it magically come to life.

 Thoughts?

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[PD] test if object-class available

[Enrique Erne]

hi

I have a bit an unusual approach to test if dyn~ is available on the
platform. In case it is i want to do all my dynamic patching in dyn~. if
it isn't available it should do everything with pd-vanilla dynamic patching.

My workaround is an abstraction with the name dyn~, this sends a message
"dyn~ not available" if it gets loaded. Then I found out that pd-0.42
can do object aliasing (not sure if that is the correct term), which i
find a very confusing feature.
I was worried that my workaround wouldn't work anymore if the
abstraction would "overwrite" the external, but it seems all fine.

So the question is are there plans to make abstractions alias object
classes ?
(i hope not :) )

cheers eni


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Re: [PD] rjdj, was : Re: [equalizer] / [lowshelf] / [highshelf] in purepd!

[Enrique Erne]

unfortunately <~ is still missing in pd-0.42

"5.1. release notes
New pow~, log~, exp~, abs~, and 'wrap' objects."





Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
cyrille henry hat gesagt: // cyrille henry wrote:

I think, currently it's probably a bit slower because of the sin(), but maybe
that could be put into a tabread~. 

i think the sin object is doing a linear interpolation in a 512 point table.
(don't know how it is done in expr~, but expr~ is not used for rjlib because of 
it's licence, right?)


Attached is an expr-less version of saw~ which from a quick glance at
the scope looks and sounds the same. It is vanilla in that it uses
[abs~] and [>~] which are part of 0.42 (and thus RjDj). On older Pd
versions you can use for example the purepd abstractions for both from
the SVN in abstractions/purepd

Ciao




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Re: [PD] Unified Library was Re: Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

i had a look at rjlib. it's a beautiful collection. i love the fact that 
it is not too big and not using any external.


though why is there a u_sssad.pd it seems the same as the original 
sssad.pd frank didn't you say once you would prefer that people don't 
include their own copy of sssad?


same with the new-fast list-drip in u_listdrip.. is it just for 
naming-convention that you renamed the abstraction?


the whole e_ and s_ part is fantastic there are some really powerful 
effects and filters in there. i looked more carefully and the only phone 
related one is m_touch2grid which could be useful without a phone too.


is this the correct url?
http://svn.rjdj.me/scenes/trunk/rjlib/rj

hm... now i've seen
http://svn.rjdj.me/scenes/trunk/rjlib/

this is ofcorse phone specific and what confuses me now is that there is 
a copy of sssad.pd


anyway rjlib/rj is just beautiful. what license is it released under?
i couldn't find anything about that in the wiki.

eni





Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote:


yeah sorry frank, i should have explained more clearly.

i also think that no GUI is the way to go for functional abstractions.  that
was the big flaw of the DIY library i did, that the function of the
abstractions was tied in with the gui component.  i did it that way because
i didn't want to clutter the namespace with too many abstractions, and the
thought of one abstraction for function, and then a different one for GUI
was not appealing at the time.

but now, i think that is the only way to go.  like, as you said, for
polyphony.  and then also for the many many cases in which you'd want to
build your own gui for custom control.


Yeah, basically that was all I wanted to say as well. ;)
 

i do think you guys have got a really really strong system there with
rjlib.  but i was just saying that without the gui stuff, it doesn't exactly
fit into being that 'all purpose building blocks' library that we are
discussing.


Yes, that's true. rjlib has its focus on audio and control abstractions to be
used on mobile devices with vanilla Pd. Some of this fits into a "all purpose"
library, but a lot of it doesn't. 


Ciao



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Re: [PD] Unified Library was Re: Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
danomatika hat gesagt: // danomatika wrote:


So rc-chorus~_ is a regular object and rc-chorus~ is a gui wrapper with
SSSAD.  So if you want SSSAD you use the gui.


I wouldn't put the sssad objects in the version with GUI. IMO It's more useful
to have them in the engine objects, e.g. for polyphony.


could you explain the polyphony example?

doesn't each voice have the same parameter, coming from the gui?

in my experience it's best to save the state right at the interface,
i don't see the point of saving state deep in the core.


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Re: [PD] Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009, Enrique Erne wrote:


- with self explaining naming?


The problem with that is that long names still don't say how it works, 
and as people learn how it works, they don't need long names anymore, 
and it gets in the way a bit. What you need is not long names, it's a 
system so that mouseover would show the descriptions that you'd 
otherwise look up in help-intro.pd, and that are often missing for 
externals.


wasn't that tooltip feature implement in desiredata? maybe one could 
port this as a own GSoC project to puredata.


i don't think names have to be fully self explaining, but at least that 
you get the clue of what the abstraction might do. rjlib and pdmtl seems 
pretty nice.


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Re: [PD] Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

hi Kyle

i love the idea of a Classic Unit Library (CUL?)
BBB - Beginners Building Blocks
WSP - (Where to Start with Pd)
WSP - warm swimming pool :)

for me the first step would be to write some specs:
- coding style guide (who did it? luke?), license, naming convention, 
howto contribute
and also analyze existing libs: pdmtl, rjlib maybe you could even just 
build on them?


i'd like to see the WSP Lib:
- bsd
- flat
- super simple black&white interfaces
- as pure as possible
- a minimum of possible dependencies
- not gopish ?
- howto contribute?
- with self explaining naming?


i'm just about to upload my zipped netpd directory.
http://netpd.org/eni/downloads/?C=M;O=D
(8.9MB because there are some samples)

eni





Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

How about this project:
Beginners Building Blocks.

Right now, If I want to even make a simple sine oscillator synth with an
ADSR envelope on it, it's not very easy to do out of the box. What if there
were some entry-level abstractions in a very OBVIOUS location that people
could instantly piece together some classic Unit Generators. Important for
these would be the ability to copy/paste items from a main page of
abstractions. Also, they should have a simple GUI interface, and possibly be
set up automatically to use SSAD.

I'm thinking stuff like:

-basic envelope generators
-basic oscillators (bandlimited ones would be nice): sine, square, triangle,
sawtooth
-basic i/o that is more intuitive to newbies
-basic sample players (one shot, looping, pitch shifting, multi-sample a la
fluidsynth)
-basic MIDI controller mapping tools (so people could just twist a knob to
assign a parameter)
-basic step, piano roll, &c sequencers
-basic pitch/rhythm analysis (wrappers for sigmund~, fiddle~, and bonk~)
-basic modular counters
-an extensive collection of examples using these objects, documenting
parameters, as well as ways to connect and/or modify and save new versions
of objects using SSAD
-video stuff would also be great, something akin to a freshened up
PixelTango.

Anyway, I just thought these things would be really nice to have in an
accessible place in Pd-extended. Because right now whenever I just want to
make something very simple, i end up having to click a mouse about 200 times
which is annoying and makes me worried about RTS!

Pd and Pd-extended are so difficult to navigate for newbies. There need to
be more "pick up and go" audio tools. I'm thinking of how Reaktor and
Max/MSP are so easy to dive into. Pd is a lot like a cold cold ocean whereas
the other two are nice warm swimming pools. Pd is deeper and more exciting
by far, but you can get swept away in an undertow never to return!

This project could be accomplished by merging elements from NetPd, Pdmtl,
and various slick patches made by the resident list geniuses. (Another thing
about NetPd if Roman and Eni are listening: can you make a tar.gz or zip
download of ALL current NetPd patches? I hate having to download 30+ items
one at a time. RTS fears again!)

So there's my way more than 2 cents. Take what you will from it.

~Kyle


On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:


On Mar 7, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:


On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 11:26 +0100, Enrique Erne wrote:

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

The Google Summer of Code ((http://code.google.com/soc/) application
is due very soon, March 9th, and we need mentors!  At this point,
you
just need to put down your name.  Then once the projects are in,
we'll
choose projects and who will mentor them.
Every pd developer who wants to support the project but is not
student
anymore is invited to join as mentor, since the number of sponsored
projects by google depends on the number of mentors and students.

Andy, Claude, Frank, Marius, Mathieu, Roman where are you guys?

add your names, hurry! :)

yo, i am happy to add my name, but i guess it only makes sense for
me to
take a mentorship of a project, that is about patching and not c
coding.
from what i have seen, there is only one project - undead - which
seems
to be about patching. derek holzer is already proposed as a mentor.
does
it make sense to propose more then one mentor for a project?

You could also create a new project based on something like creating
libraries out of all that useful code in netpd.  Basically, think of
something that you would like implemented in Pd that you could mentor.

.hc




roman



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the possession of everyone, and the receiver

Re: [PD] self-modifying and dynamic patching

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Derek

i made a mixer for netpd once, that dynamically creates channels and 
fx-bus. it uses the whole netpd framework, statesaving etc.


http://www.netpd.org/Mx

if you have already a netpd synth it's quite easy to plugin to the mx, 
something like that:


[osc~]
|\
[i2mx~ $0 yourInstrumentName]

but: it only works with netpd :)
but2: there seems to be a problem with pd-0.42, that i will fix soon.

eni



Derek Holzer wrote:
Hi all and thanks for chiming in on this thread. There was once, long 
ago, a simple mixer which dynamically created the busses and channels. 
If anyone can remember that one, it must have been 5 years ago, and was 
the first dynamic patch I had ever seen.


Also fun, non-utilitarian ones, like once someone sent some kind of 
"card" to the list which just made a huge self-generating GUI art-mess 
on the screen. I wish I could remember who wrote it. Lastly, IOhannes 
showed a very nice self-modifying patch at Piksel last December using 
iemguts.


best!
Derek




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Re: [PD] Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Enrique Erne wrote:
>> how about LibPDEngine? :)
> 
> That's not really related to anything I do. Well, I did a quick test of 
> making and using libpd.so in DD, but I didn't have any real use for this 
> in mind.

is there any reason why you shouldn't be a mentor for a project? it's 
easy to setup a gmail account :)

what about MoreGUIs since that is kind of related to DD, isn't it? even 
though it has already 2 mentors... the more the better right?

i just picked randomly a few names of people, who are pretty active on 
this list and have great knowledge. it seems a pretty opportunity to add 
a project of your choice and add yourself as a mentor. you can only win 
or not?

eni

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Re: [PD] Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> Andy, Claude, Frank, Marius, Mathieu, Roman where are you guys?
> 
> Where should I be?
> 
>> add your names, hurry! :)
> 
> Why should I add my name?

you could be mentor for a project.

how about LibPDEngine? :)

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Re: [PD] Call for GSoC mentors! March 9th deadline!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> The Google Summer of Code ((http://code.google.com/soc/) application  
> is due very soon, March 9th, and we need mentors!  At this point, you  
> just need to put down your name.  Then once the projects are in, we'll  
> choose projects and who will mentor them.

> Every pd developer who wants to support the project but is not student  
> anymore is invited to join as mentor, since the number of sponsored  
> projects by google depends on the number of mentors and students.

Andy, Claude, Frank, Marius, Mathieu, Roman where are you guys?

add your names, hurry! :)

http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GSoCOrganizationApp2009

@both Chris's and Derek your names and gmail account are missing!!


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Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code 2009!

[Enrique Erne]

wow these project are really nice.

i hope deeply PdLib would make it with or without soc. imo that is s 
missing in pd-extended. i'd love to help but i don't even know how to 
help to get the help-files in running in pd-ext.
http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/PdLib/

LibPd would be also a huge addition.
http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/LibPd/

only negative point i have is the name: PdLib and LibPd is kind of 
confusing.

but as already stated, all projects are great and would be wonderful.

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] extremely fast pure pd [list-drip] (fwd)

[Enrique Erne]

hi Mathieu

nice abstraciton...
... and i thought my list-drip-custom would win :(


could somebody explain how it exaclty works?


what license do you publish your code when you post code on the pd-list? 
same as puredata?



thanks eni




Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


seems like it would fit better on this mailing-list.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:38:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Mathieu Bouchard 
To: Frank Barknecht 
Cc: pd-...@iem.at
Subject: [PD-dev] extremely fast pure pd [list-drip]

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote:


such a standard library would define an *interface* for standard
objects. Where performance is an issue, the interface could alternatively
implemented with externals. This also is exemplified in [list]-abs,
where personally I use a version of [list-drip] that has zexy's [drip]
inside for speed reasons. It behaves exactly like the abstraction
version so it doesn't matter if people don't have zexy installed.


i just made a pure-pd [list-drip] that is much much quicker for large 
lists than your pure pd [list-drip].


For a list of size 32768, I find it to be at least 250 times faster.

For a list of size 4096, it's at least 24 times faster.

See attachment.

 _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
| Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec




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#N canvas 0 22 880 375 10;
#X obj 167 99 until;
#X msg 183 193 add2 a;
#N canvas 583 22 450 300 counter 0;
#X floatatom 104 104 8 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 222 106 inlet;
#X obj 167 103 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X msg 166 126 0;
#X obj 263 198 + 1;
#X obj 223 198 f 0;
#X obj 223 144 b;
#X connect 1 0 6 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 1;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 5 0 0 0;
#X connect 6 0 5 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 85 20 2 100 100;
#X restore 183 127 pd counter;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 gettime 0;
#X obj 214 122 realtime;
#X floatatom 119 118 9 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 211 61 t b b b;
#X obj 302 128 outlet;
#X obj 102 117 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 211 31 inlet;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 1;
#X connect 2 1 3 0;
#X connect 2 2 0 0;
#X connect 4 0 2 0;
#X connect 5 0 2 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 85 35 1 100 100;
#X restore 72 197 pd gettime;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 gettime 0;
#X obj 214 122 realtime;
#X floatatom 119 118 9 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 211 61 t b b b;
#X obj 302 128 outlet;
#X obj 102 117 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 211 31 inlet;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 1;
#X connect 2 1 3 0;
#X connect 2 2 0 0;
#X connect 4 0 2 0;
#X connect 5 0 2 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 85 35 1 100 100;
#X restore 343 122 pd gettime;
#X msg 204 72 100;
#X msg 168 72 10;
#X msg 250 71 1000;
#N canvas 512 22 619 335 list-drip 0;
#X obj 64 206 list split 1;
#X obj 64 123 until;
#X obj 64 181 list append;
#X obj 194 206 bang;
#X text 146 90 First store list \, then start the loop;
#X text 163 118 "until" bangs its output until told to stop by a "bang"
to its right inlet.;
#X text 182 160 Store the remaining list.;
#X text 239 205 third outlet of "split" tells us to stop.;
#X obj 64 243 outlet;
#X obj 64 57 inlet;
#X text 237 44 From list-help.pd;
#X obj 143 243 outlet;
#X obj 64 86 t b a;
#X connect 0 0 8 0;
#X connect 0 1 2 1;
#X connect 0 2 3 0;
#X connect 0 2 11 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 0;
#X connect 3 0 1 1;
#X connect 9 0 12 0;
#X connect 12 0 1 0;
#X connect 12 1 2 1;
#X restore 379 169 pd list-drip;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 gettime 0;
#X obj 214 122 realtime;
#X floatatom 119 118 9 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 211 61 t b b b;
#X obj 302 128 outlet;
#X obj 102 117 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 211 31 inlet;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 1;
#X connect 2 1 3 0;
#X connect 2 2 0 0;
#X connect 4 0 2 0;
#X connect 5 0 2 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 85 35 1 100 100;
#X restore 496 97 pd gettime;
#X obj 721 78 drip;
#X msg 177 245;
#X msg 342 225;
#X msg 507 187;
#X msg 255 185 set;
#X msg 324 71 1;
#X text 334 60 warning slow;
#N canvas 0 22 431 325 list-drip-quick 0;
#X obj 33 54 t a a;
#X obj 33 111 spigot;
#X obj 82 73 bang;
#X obj 82 92 1;
#X obj 180 54 route bang;
#X obj 171 73 bang;
#X obj 171 92 0;
#X obj 82 54 list split 2;
#X obj 101 188 list split;
#X obj 130 130 list length;
#X obj 130 149 >> 1;
#X obj 33 130 t a a a a;
#X obj 33 276 list split;
#X obj 72 212 list length;
#X obj 72 231 >> 1;
#X obj 33 19 inlet;
#X obj 274 54 outlet;
#X text 75 19 Copyright 2009 by Mathieu Bouchard;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 0 1 7 0;
#X connect 1 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 1 1;
#X connect 4 1 16 0;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 6 0 1 1;
#X connect 7 0 2 0;
#X connect 7 2 4 

Re: [PD] [PD-dev] extremely fast pure pd [list-drip] (fwd)

[Enrique Erne]

hi hc

i allway use a
[t b b b]
X
[realtime]

and connect the 2nd bang of the trigger to the operation that i want to 
measure.

for measuring this operation multiple times you can add a

[100(
|
[until]

after the 2nd bang


eni




Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Sounds very cool.  Just out of curiosty, how did you measure the speed  
> difference?  That would be a useful technic to know about for testing   
> in general.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Feb 25, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> 
>> seems like it would fit better on this mailing-list.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:38:27 -0500 (EST)
>> From: Mathieu Bouchard 
>> To: Frank Barknecht 
>> Cc: pd-...@iem.at
>> Subject: [PD-dev] extremely fast pure pd [list-drip]
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>
>>> such a standard library would define an *interface* for standard
>>> objects. Where performance is an issue, the interface could  
>>> alternatively
>>> implemented with externals. This also is exemplified in [list]-abs,
>>> where personally I use a version of [list-drip] that has zexy's  
>>> [drip]
>>> inside for speed reasons. It behaves exactly like the abstraction
>>> version so it doesn't matter if people don't have zexy installed.
>> i just made a pure-pd [list-drip] that is much much quicker for  
>> large lists than your pure pd [list-drip].
>>
>> For a list of size 32768, I find it to be at least 250 times faster.
>>
>> For a list of size 4096, it's at least 24 times faster.
>>
>> See attachment.
>>
>> _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
>> | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec> quick.pd>___
>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally  
> for machines to execute.
>   - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Dynamically created signal object bug

[Enrique Erne]

hi luke

yep i know this problem, i think it's called "updating the dsp-tree". 
one workaround, i used to do, is to create a +~ and delete it again. 
faster is to turn off the dsp while doing dynamic patching stuff and 
then turn it back on again, but then you should keep track of [r 
pd]->[route dsp]

btw i have written an abstractions to dynamically chain abstractions 
together (sound weird doesn't it?). i got it finally working and i'm 
just about to write some example and little documentation before posting 
a preview release on the list.

cheers eni


Luke Iannini wrote:
> Hi all,
> Here's another bug I've just managed to boil down and reproduce.  I'm
> kind of surprised at this one - I thought it was a pretty common thing
> to dynamically spawn signal objects.
> 
> The bug is: a dynamically spawned abstraction containing signal
> objects won't start processing/generating audio until you either
> delete an object in the parent patch or connect two signal objects
> together.
> 
> As usual this is tested on Pd-e 0.40.3 and Pd 0.42-4...
> 
> Can anyone confirm?
> Thanks!
> Luke
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] set value by message

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> is it possible to set a [value] by a message?
>> i.e.
>>
>> [value foo]
>>
>> [;
>> foo 27(
>>
>> error: value: no method for 'float'
>> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
> 
> Well, obviously it's not possible. :)
> 
> You can use a [r foo] receiver in parallel to [value foo] and it will
> receive the 27, but you still get the error message from [value], so I
> would avoid that.
> 
> You can use a second [value foo] if you want to remotely set another
> [value foo], in fact, that's how [value] is designed to work.
> 
> ciao


i guess was just lazzy and wanted to put all my initialization in one 
message. this works for arrays and receives but not for values.

thanks anyway




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[PD] set value by message

[Enrique Erne]

hi

is it possible to set a [value] by a message?
i.e.

[value foo]

[;
foo 27(

error: value: no method for 'float'
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.


sorry if this has been asked before. all i found in the archives is
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2001-10/003328.html


eni

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Re: [PD] startup problems

[Enrique Erne]

you could try this one:
http://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/wiki/X112.3.2.1


Conor Higgins wrote:
> Hi Jack,
> 
> we did that... it didnt work, we tried it twice in fact. Once before  
> we reinstalled the operating system, and once after we installed the  
> operating system...
> 
> Conor
> 
> 
> On 21 Feb 2009, at 15:50, Jack wrote:
> 
>> You have to install X11 User from the MacOSX installation DVD.
>> ++
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>> Le 20 févr. 09 à 23:16, Conor Higgins a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> I am working on an art project at the moment and I am using PD to  
>>> design the system that we will be exhibiting, now for some reason  
>>> the artist can't seem to get PD to actually run properly on his own  
>>> laptop, a macbook 13". We have tried everything with regards the  
>>> startup paths, reinstalling, deleting the plist files, even  
>>> reinstalling the operating system just last week, yet we are still  
>>> getting the same problems with the software. Pretty much every  
>>> other library can be loaded manually, i.e adding it to the startup  
>>> path, except for those that involve video manipulation or graphics  
>>> manipulation e.g. Gem, PDP, PiDiP etc. If you look at the startup  
>>> window image below you will see that the errors having something to  
>>> do with x11. We tried installing x11 to combat this error, but for  
>>> some reason it will not allow us to do this either giving an error  
>>> message stating that a newer version of the software already  
>>> exists, which it doesn't... we have scanned the system looking for  
>>> it and it isnt there. Has anybody here got an idea as to why this  
>>> is happening?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Conor Higgins
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
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[PD] de/activate the cursor of selected object box

[Enrique Erne]

hi again

currently it is possible to use "return" in object boxes, but afaik this 
is not needed and stripped to one single line after clicking somewhere 
outside the box.

it'd be neat if the "return" would activate the cursor in the selected 
box and the other way around. next step could be selecting the next box 
by tabulator, but that'd be really fancy.

what do you think?

eni

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[PD] multiple undo ctrl-z

[Enrique Erne]

hi all

there has been many good ideas about usability features, so here come my 
most beloved ones:

multiple undo be a great improvement.

would that be difficult?

eni

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Re: [PD] copy-paste vs. duplicate behavior

[Enrique Erne]

shifting objects when copy/paste in the same window, would be pretty 
neat. when pasting in an other window it should shift imo.

eni


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I was thinking that it would be nice if copy-paste had the same  
> response and duplicate, i.e. shifting the position over by 10 pixels  
> in x and y, then pasting.  I can't see a good reason why paste doesn't  
> do that.  Anyone know of any?  Newbies get very frustrated by the  
> current behavior.  Regular users get used to the Duplicate command,  
> but I don't know of any other programs where you can't just copy-paste  
> and you need a special function.
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
> 
> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can  
> hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.41.4 nightlies now available

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Hans

So far this nights autobuild works nicely for me on osx.

It would be very nice to have zexy's <~, >~, !=~, ==~ back though.

and are there plans to include pdlua soon?

thanks eni




Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Starting today, there are now some Pd-extended 0.41.4 nightly builds  
> available:
> 
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-01-11/
> 
> Start testing them so we can get the release out quickly!
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can  
> hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] dyn~

[Enrique Erne]

did you try pd-extended?

i'm planing to use dyn~ a bit more myself and hope it is working in 
pd-extended. could you confirm that?



patrick wrote:
> hi,
> 
> anyone having dyn~.pd_linux (32 bits)? would it be possible to send it 
> to me (off list). the thing is, it compiled, but the cpu goes crazy when 
> creating [dyn~].
> 
> pat
> 
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Re: [PD] speech recognition for pd

[Enrique Erne]

hi patrick

have u seen :
Help/manuals/pd-msg/1.msg_and_patch/1.2.create_patch.pd
?

this is from pd-extended help browser. i'm not sure where you can find 
it in svn.





patrick wrote:
> hi,
> 
> yes very interesting. also, i was looking at pdmtl abstractions 
> dyn.poly, but for now all i want is to be able to connect objects 
> together, for example:
> 
> 
> number box
> connect
> oscillator
> connect
> output
> ==
> [number2]
> |
> [osc~]
> |
> [dac~]
> 
> 
> how to connect multiple outlet?
> 
> 
> trig bang float anything
> connect 3
> print bang
> print float
> print anything
> ==
> [t b f a]
> |   |   |
> [print bang]
>...
>...
> 
> 
> not sure, looking foward for suggestions!
> pat
> 


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Re: [PD] speech recognition for pd

[Enrique Erne]

hi

could u explain a bit what you like to dynamically patch? i am quite 
interested in this area :)

you might want to have a look at [dyn~] or pd-msgs in the pd-extended help

i am about to write a little helper abstraction to chain abstractions 
together. and that handles the connections (send~) between them. would 
that be interesting for you?

eni


patrick wrote:
> thanks,
> 
> i am looking for help (suggestions, ideas, optimizations, dynamic 
> patching etc). you can find the download + instructions (3 easy steps!) 
> here:
> 
> http://probing.wikidot.com/sphinx3-to-pure-data
> 
> basic commands are:
> BANGB AE NG
> CANVASK AE N V AH S
> HORIZONTALHH AO R AH Z AA N T AH L
> INLETIH N L EH T
> INPUTIH N P UH T
> LOADBANGL OW D B AE NG
> MESSAGEM EH S IH JH
> MESSAGE(1)M EH S AH JH
> NUMBERN AH M B ER
> OUTLETAW T L EH T
> OUTPUTAW T P UH T
> RADIOR EY D IY OW
> SLIDERS L AY D ER
> SYMBOLS IH M B AH L
> TOGGLET AA G AH L
> TWOT UW
> VERTICALV ER T IH K AH L
> 
> pat
> 
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[PD] pd in hongkong?

[Enrique Erne]

hi list

i'm going to hongkong and wondered if there are any pd user around.

please drop me a line if you want to meet before new year :)

cheers eni

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Re: [PD] unpack~ clone (sort of)

[Enrique Erne]

btw. have you been working on more purepd abstractions?
and are they public somewhere?

eni

Jamie Bullock wrote:
> Nice!
> 
> I think your version is much better. With this testargs in place I might
> have a try at an a_pack~.
> 
> Jamie
> 
> On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 11:21 -0500, Enrique Erne wrote:
>> Hi Jamie
>>
>> let's purify :)
>>
>> i got an other version with some "undocumented?" table features and 
>> iohannes nice testargs technique
>>
>> it doesn't require list-drip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jamie Bullock wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I find pack~/unpack~ very useful, and I wanted to see if there was a
>>> pure pd approach. Attached is a first stab at an unpack~. It gives
>>> identical results to zexy/unpack if 'length >= blocksize'. For length <
>>> blocksize a_unpack~ zeros signal vector elements >= length and drops any
>>> additional lists that fall within the current block. zexy/unpack~ does
>>> the 'right thing' and includes elements from subsequent lists in the
>>> vector.
>>>
>>> Still a_unpack~ could be useful if you're like me and like to keep
>>> things as 'pure' as possible! 
>>>
>>> Depends on list-abs for list-drip.
>>>
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
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>> plain text document attachment (a_unpack~-eni.pd)
>> #N canvas 268 22 489 422 10;
>> #X obj 27 32 inlet;
>> #X obj 27 342 outlet~;
>> #X obj 27 312 tabreceive~ \$0-elements;
>> #N canvas 0 22 450 300 ioTestArgument 0;
>> #X obj 173 228 list append \$1;
>> #X obj 128 168 select s;
>> #X obj 128 78 t b b;
>> #X obj 238 138 makefilename $%d-test;
>> #X msg 238 108 1;
>> #X obj 128 118 symbol \$1-test;
>> #X msg 143 47 bang;
>> #X obj 128 18 loadbang;
>> #X obj 173 198 b;
>> #X obj 173 258 outlet;
>> #X text 19 181 no arg given ->;
>> #X text 197 180 <- there is \$1;
>> #X connect 0 0 9 0;
>> #X connect 1 1 8 0;
>> #X connect 2 0 5 0;
>> #X connect 2 1 4 0;
>> #X connect 3 0 1 1;
>> #X connect 4 0 3 0;
>> #X connect 5 0 1 0;
>> #X connect 6 0 2 0;
>> #X connect 7 0 2 0;
>> #X connect 8 0 0 0;
>> #X restore 177 32 pd ioTestArgument;
>> #X obj 177 62 change 64;
>> #X msg 177 112 resize \$1;
>> #X obj 70 282 s \$0-elements;
>> #X obj 27 162 list prepend 0;
>> #X text 93 143 offset;
>> #X obj 27 112 list split 64;
>> #X msg 54 215 const 0;
>> #X obj 27 192 t a b;
>> #X obj 327 32 table \$0-elements 64;
>> #X connect 0 0 9 0;
>> #X connect 2 0 1 0;
>> #X connect 3 0 4 0;
>> #X connect 4 0 5 0;
>> #X connect 4 0 9 1;
>> #X connect 5 0 6 0;
>> #X connect 7 0 11 0;
>> #X connect 9 0 7 0;
>> #X connect 9 2 7 0;
>> #X connect 10 0 6 0;
>> #X connect 11 0 6 0;
>> #X connect 11 1 10 0;


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Re: [PD] unpack~ clone (sort of)

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Frank

yes i've definelty seen it somewhere in the help/browesr

i suppose you mean 3.audio.examples?

how come in my Pd-0.42-0test05 for mac the files are named starting with 
a letter?
i have for example B04.tabread4.interpolation.pd


that also reminds me there is no page about table nor array in pdpedia. 
because once i wanted to add some of the features there.

eni



Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> i got an other version with some "undocumented?" table features 
> 
> You mean the feature of sending a list to a table? It's documented in
> 16.more.arrays.pd which should be merged with 11.array.pd into
> table-help.pd/array-help.pd/canvas-help.pd of course. ;)
> 
> Ciao


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Re: [PD] unpack~ clone (sort of)

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Jamie

let's purify :)

i got an other version with some "undocumented?" table features and 
iohannes nice testargs technique


it doesn't require list-drip




Jamie Bullock wrote:

Hi,

I find pack~/unpack~ very useful, and I wanted to see if there was a
pure pd approach. Attached is a first stab at an unpack~. It gives
identical results to zexy/unpack if 'length >= blocksize'. For length <
blocksize a_unpack~ zeros signal vector elements >= length and drops any
additional lists that fall within the current block. zexy/unpack~ does
the 'right thing' and includes elements from subsequent lists in the
vector.

Still a_unpack~ could be useful if you're like me and like to keep
things as 'pure' as possible! 


Depends on list-abs for list-drip.

Jamie





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#N canvas 268 22 489 422 10;
#X obj 27 32 inlet;
#X obj 27 342 outlet~;
#X obj 27 312 tabreceive~ \$0-elements;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 ioTestArgument 0;
#X obj 173 228 list append \$1;
#X obj 128 168 select s;
#X obj 128 78 t b b;
#X obj 238 138 makefilename $%d-test;
#X msg 238 108 1;
#X obj 128 118 symbol \$1-test;
#X msg 143 47 bang;
#X obj 128 18 loadbang;
#X obj 173 198 b;
#X obj 173 258 outlet;
#X text 19 181 no arg given ->;
#X text 197 180 <- there is \$1;
#X connect 0 0 9 0;
#X connect 1 1 8 0;
#X connect 2 0 5 0;
#X connect 2 1 4 0;
#X connect 3 0 1 1;
#X connect 4 0 3 0;
#X connect 5 0 1 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 0;
#X connect 7 0 2 0;
#X connect 8 0 0 0;
#X restore 177 32 pd ioTestArgument;
#X obj 177 62 change 64;
#X msg 177 112 resize \$1;
#X obj 70 282 s \$0-elements;
#X obj 27 162 list prepend 0;
#X text 93 143 offset;
#X obj 27 112 list split 64;
#X msg 54 215 const 0;
#X obj 27 192 t a b;
#X obj 327 32 table \$0-elements 64;
#X connect 0 0 9 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 9 1;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 7 0 11 0;
#X connect 9 0 7 0;
#X connect 9 2 7 0;
#X connect 10 0 6 0;
#X connect 11 0 6 0;
#X connect 11 1 10 0;
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Re: [PD] API for manipulating a patch in real time

[Enrique Erne]

i'd love to see pd going this direction and use it with friends.

processing is a pretty good candidate imo. on osx i could get it to 
start and open a patch unfortunately not in -nogui mode

i do not understand enough what's possible, but it would be crazy if one 
could use Pd with titanium, which is the opensource cousin of adobe air.
http://titaniumapp.com/

eni

(just keeping this topic alive :) )


Miller Puckette wrote:
> I can imagine simply writing an example program to do this (putting some
> boilerplate first and then a rewritable main at the end).  It would
> look more like this:
> 
> /* don't touch me */
> 
> /* but replace the following with your code */
> 
> main()
> {
>pd_startthread("arg1 arg2...");
>   /* do anything you want */
>pd_send("foo bang;");
>   /* etc */
>pd_endthread();
> }
> 
> ... the idea would be that pd itself would live in a subthread and you'd
> be able to send messages to it and even somehow get return callbacks.
> This wouldn't be like pd~ at all, since in this scenario Pd would open 
> audio and MIDI as needed and schedule itself (with pd~ the subprocess
> slaves itself synchronously to the parent).  Another restriction would
> be that you could only have one Pd thread (it isn't thread-safe!).  On
> the other hand, this would work fine in Windows, which pd~ doesn't (since
> windows appears not to offer pipes unless you add a library with funny
> licensing restrictions.)
> 
> Would that be a useful thing to have?
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:28:22AM +, Andy Farnell wrote:
>>
>> Yes! Even if it's already 'doable' having a clearly
>> abstracted libPd with documented API is clearly the next
>> step in Pure Data development. This should be an overriding
>> consideration in all current dev directions.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:07:04 +0900
>> Chris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 09:05:16AM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
 Zach Dwiel wrote:
> Hello
 first of all, there is no official API.
>>> It would be so nice if there were an easy way to invoke Pd as a library
>>> from within other code. I know it's possible to do this (Spore, pd~,
>>> RjDj, Pd browser plugin), it's just that it requires writing a bunch of
>>> non-trivial support code that must be re-written every time. It
>>> shouldn't have to. Pd -nogui could and should be as easily invokeable as
>>> any other library.
>>>
>>> For example, I just wish it was possible to go:
>>>
>>> #include 
>>>
>>> *PDInstance pd = make_pd_instance();
>>> pd->init(/* ..args.. */);
>>>
>>> while (1)
>>> {
>>> /* Do stuff here */
>>> pd->schedloop();
>>> /* Do other stuff here */
>>> pd->sendMessage(";my-receiver bang;");
>>> }
>>>
>>> Ok maybe not quite as easy as that, but I reckon you'd see Pd used as
>>> the audio engine for loads of other apps and games if this was simple.
>>> There has already been interest from e.g. the Blender project and the
>>> several other apps that already embed Pd.
>>>
>>> If this is already easy and I have just missed something obvious, please
>>> let me know. (Sorry for not contributing code.)
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Chris.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> http://mccormick.cx
>>>
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>> -- 
>> Use the source
>>
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Re: [PD] A fake >~ without expr

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> I have an other approach, see gt~.pd on http://netpd.org/eni/purepd/
>>
>> posted on this list a few weeks ago. please feel free to use them in anyway.
> 
> Ah, these are even better. Do you mind if I use them in such a way as
> putting them into the purepd folder of the subversion? ;)


that would be great frank!


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Re: [PD] A fake >~ without expr

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Frank

I have an other approach, see gt~.pd on http://netpd.org/eni/purepd/

posted on this list a few weeks ago. please feel free to use them in anyway.

cheers eni





Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> maybe of use to others: 
> 
> Attached is a faked clone of zexy's [>~] that does not use [expr~].
> It's not mathematically correct, but good enough for many needs.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd exam 01: complete the list

[Enrique Erne]

wow, that's a pretty solution you got here.



cyrille henry wrote:
> 
> 
> Frank Barknecht a écrit :
>> Hallo,
>>
>> attached is a little assignment for aspiring Pd users. The most
>> elegant (e.g. shortest) solution gets a free handshake! ;)
>> Ciao
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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> 
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Re: [PD] trigger: [t b 1 2]

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Damian

i like to use a list in your case since many objects map the list to the 
inlets.


[1 $1(
|
[-]


eni



Damian Stewart wrote:
> hey,
> 
> i find myself often repeating a construct like this:
> 
> [t b a]
> | |
> [1 (  ...
> |
> 
> now, the last time i was using Max, i noticed that Max's trigger object
> allows you to go
> 
> [t 1 a]
> 
> and the left outlet will send out the number 1. or even:
> 
> [t reset a]
> 
> and the left outlet sends out the message 'reset'. this seems to me like an
> extremely handy feature, so if it gets the blessings of the list(s) i'd
> like to go and implement it and submit a patch.
> 
> what do folks think of this? i know there was some discussion a year or two
> ago, talking about how you should only be using the 'bang' and 'anything'
> keywords with trigger and not using it as a type-bashing object. not sure
> what came of that though...
> 
> chur
> d


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Re: [PD] frey-wubwubwub (basic dubstep loop, purepd+samples)

[Enrique Erne]

Good morning Damian

that's a pretty awesome piece!!!

seems to work fine except i belive the kick isn't.

thanks for sharing!

eni




date --
... couldn't create
  time
... couldn't create
  tr808-bd~
... couldn't create
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'decay'
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'click'
print: freq 164.814 195.998 246.942 146.832
print: freq 164.814 195.998 246.942 146.832
print: freq 165.405 196.633 247.37 147.087
print: freq 116.959 139.04 174.917 104.006
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'trigger'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'trigger'





Damian Stewart wrote:
> hey,
> 
> attached find frey-wubwubwub.
> 
> it's a basic dubstep-esque loop made with pure Pd plus an external
> sequencer (Live, session file included), and a few tiny samples. includes
> nice wobbly bass noise patch. everything including is GNU GPL v3+.
> 
> open up _main.pd to go. if you have Gem you can also open _vis.pd and click
> 'create' for a super-five-minute wobbly bass vis.
> 
> comments as always appreciated.
> 
> chur
> d
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] tcpclient sending more than 1 send at once

[Enrique Erne]

Martin Peach wrote:
> Roman Haefeli wrote:
>> Martin Peach wrote:
>>> Yes, and [unpackOSC] has no way of knowing if it is getting data from
>>> UDP or TCP so it should probably assume the worst and go for TCP. In
>>> fact, to be unbreakably robust it should assume it is getting input one
>>> byte at a time and not output anything until either an entire OSC packet
>>> has been received or the packet is not valid OSC.
>> this is how i would like [unpackOSC] to behave. i don't see any other
>> way to do OSC over tcp.
>>
> 
> I think opening a bundle and putting all the simultaneous messages in it, 
> then closing the bundle and sending it, will work over tcp.
>

i did some test sending a file (over localhost). the limit seems to be 
at 65536. my test file is 49474 but i usually received 2 packets, rarely 
one single packet with 49474 bytes, sometimes even 3 packets.

i guess this behaves the same for normal send messages (not whole files) 
it could be a real problem since we can't really tell if a bundle is 
complete.

eni


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[PD] tcpclient sending more than 1 send at once

[Enrique Erne]

hi martin and the list

if i send [send 11, send 22, send 33, send 44, send 55(
to [tcpclient] the [tcpserver] prints

receive: 11 22 33 44 55

actually i expected to get 5 messages back. is this a bug or am i wrong?

thanks eni

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Re: [PD] 'pure' pd DSP abstractions wanted!

[Enrique Erne]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Quoting Jamie Bullock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>> On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 09:54 -0400, Enrique Erne wrote:
>>> Hi Jamie
>>>
>>> It's not much but might be helpful to port other stuff to purepd.
>>>
>>> you'll find
>>> gt~.pd (>~)
>>> lt~.pd (<~)
>>> sgn~.pd
>>>
>>> http://www.netpd.org/eni/purepd/
>> That's great actually, and I'd love to contribute back into this.
>> However, if I'm not mistaked aren't there two purepd projects
>> netpd/purepd and Hans's purepd in pd svn? Would it be worth feeding your
>> patches into Hans's, and then any other abstractions I make/find I can
>> also feed into svn?
 >
> just out of curiosity: >~.pd, <~.pd, sgn~ and what else in zexy are  
> already pd-vanilla abstractions (some of them are both abstractions  
> and externals for performance reasons); is there an advantage in  
> collecting these things in yet another arbitrary (as opposed to  
> grouped by functionality) library?

where are any abstractions/externals "grouped by functionality"?
do you mean pdmtl?

just to be clear: the files netpd.org/eni/purepd/ are not collected as 
library, they are just there since i have no other place to put them and 
it could be useful for purepd reasons.

the svn purepd patches contain some abstractions that confuse me a bit. 
actually i would like to contribute to purepd. (i.e. why is there moses 
and clip?)

maybe we should define a purepd styleguide too. the any_argument 
abstraction bothers me. i belive the patches could work without them and 
i would prefer to keep it super simple.

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Re: [PD] 'pure' pd DSP abstractions wanted!

[Enrique Erne]

Anton Hörnquist wrote:
> 
> In my view jon~ is open source so feel free to use it in any way. I'm
> not sure how to... well.. document this. What's the best and simplest
> way? Should I write something about it in the help patch? What license
> should I use - GPL? Any hints about this are appreciated. :)

i'd like to see the purepd project having the same licence as puredata.

eni

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Re: [PD] 'pure' pd DSP abstractions wanted!

[Enrique Erne]

Jamie Bullock wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 09:54 -0400, Enrique Erne wrote:
>> Hi Jamie
>>
>> It's not much but might be helpful to port other stuff to purepd.
>>
>> you'll find
>> gt~.pd (>~)
>> lt~.pd (<~)
>> sgn~.pd
>>
>> http://www.netpd.org/eni/purepd/
> 
> That's great actually, and I'd love to contribute back into this.
> However, if I'm not mistaked aren't there two purepd projects
> netpd/purepd and Hans's purepd in pd svn? Would it be worth feeding your
> patches into Hans's, and then any other abstractions I make/find I can
> also feed into svn?
> 
> Sorry if this has already come up...
> 
> Jamie

feel free to use the abstractions. if i can help with purepd i will 
certainly do. maybe we could include the filter abstractions that came 
up a while ago on the pd-list?

eni

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Re: [PD] 'pure' pd DSP abstractions wanted!

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Jamie

It's not much but might be helpful to port other stuff to purepd.

you'll find
gt~.pd (>~)
lt~.pd (<~)
sgn~.pd

http://www.netpd.org/eni/purepd/

good luck

eni



Jamie Bullock wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm looking self-contained DSP abstractions that only use Pd - no
> externals. Things like reverbs, different types of filters, delays, a
> pitch shifter, harmonizer -- a kind of basic 'FX' toolbox.
> 
> I'm thinking very much along the lines pdmtl/fx.* but without the
> external dependencies.
> 
> Thoughts I've had so far:
> 
> - Pull stuff out of the Pd help patches
> - Pull stuff out of the list archives
> - Remove the dependency requirements from pdmtl/fx.*
> 
> But, maybe someone has a nice 'set' of such abstractions sitting on
> their hard drive, that they wouldn't mind releasing into the public
> domain -- or under some permissive license.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Jamie
> 
> 




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Re: [PD] expr from sssad/gui-objects

[Enrique Erne]

nice examples Frank!


Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
> 
>> The only way I can think of ...
> 
> Here's another thing I could think of: store the three numbers in a
> single list. See att. again.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] expr from sssad/gui-objects

[Enrique Erne]

hi
if you have three number-boxes connected to [expr $f1 - $f2 - $f3],
don't you have a trigger problem anyway?



Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have three number-boxes connected to sssad objects. When they all have 
> their value restored I'd like to make an [expr $f1 - $f2 - $f3]. Since I 
> don't know which box will get restored first I have bangs from the the 
> second and third numbers to the hot inlet, which 1) is very ugly and 2) 
> will always give three outputs from expr, only the last being correct.
> 
> How can I make a calculation *only when all three values are available*?
> 
> Sorry if the answer (again) is obvious...
> 


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Re: [PD] Pd-0.41-4 can't extract

[Enrique Erne]

nobody on osx 10.5.4 except me?

still got 22GB left..
i just downloaded it again with a different browser.

is there a md5 thingy around?

eni



Miller Puckette wrote:
> That's wierd... the only situation I can think of that could cause that would
> be a full disk.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 05:42:07AM -0400, Enrique Erne wrote:
>> pd-0.41-4.mac.tar.gz from http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html
>>
>> i get
>>
>> Could not extract the file "Pd-0.41-4.app/Contents": Could not create 
>> the folder
>>
>> this is on i386 osx 10.5.4 the file is 5.5MB
>>
>> does anybody else have the same error?
>>
>> eni
>>
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Re: [PD] Idiomatic Pd

[Enrique Erne]

Hi Luke

Luke Iannini wrote:
> There are some amazing sets of abstractions being released recently,
> which has served to highlight the many extant styles of patching.  I
> was wondering if there was interest in establishing a set of
> guidelines for patching in the vein of PEP 8 for Python; I've found
> that document to be very relaxing as it is a standardized approach to
> OCD.  More seriously, it greatly helps when reading other people's
> code or collaborating.
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> 
> The only one I have seen so far for Pd covers best practices for
> layout.  I'd want to include that, but also codify naming, arguments,
> common idioms, and so on.
> 
> I've begun to collect some of my practices to start things off.  I was
> hoping we could all lazy-vote the document together in this thread and
> I'll then compile it into a PdPedia/Pd.info document.  So, feel free
> to object to or replace my propositions.
> 
> Style:
> * If giving $0 as an argument to an abstraction, it is always first in
> the argument list [1]
> * * When possible, pass parent arguments in numeric order, like [child
> $0 $1 $2 other1 other2] etc.
> * Sends and Receives are written in camelCase, with "R" appended to
> complementary receives (e.g. in GUIs, $0mySlider for the send and
> $0mySliderR for the receive)
> * When prepending $0 to a symbol, only add a "-" to separate it from
> another number, like [r $0-1stSend].  Otherwise the symbol should
> immediately follow, like [r $0mySend].

i arbitrary use ".", "-" and "_" . IMO a separator in a send/receive 
name is needed when you use a dollar, and i would welcome a guideline, 
especially if there is a certification and quality brand for pd-patches :)

but there are so many styles and i don't even know which way to declare 
an external.

now a bit personal: i don't like $0 :) . It's fine for a namespace 
within a patch, but I found myself often needing to access something 
from "outside" so i have to pass $0 around, which is ugly. I much more 
prefer a global receiver and route everything. so i pass the name of my 
patch to it's abstractions. abstracions get global receiver with $1 in 
it which is the motherpatchname.
it helps for orientation i.e. look at the window title:

yourabstraction.pd (mother)
isn't it better than:
yourabstraction.pd (1284)

you can even use it for [sssad $1/vol] without having the $0 making your 
sssad key into a unusable name. If I have GUI inside the GOP each 
sliders send and receive name begin with $1. or $1- or $1_ (guideline 
please!), that makes it possible to hijack the patch from an other 
patch. Like the midilearn or automator patch can control any slider in 
this setup.

Franks recommendation UPPERCASE for globals is really neat.

For GUI elements like sliders I've never regret to use a kind of name
hierarchy ($1.vol), usually
mypatch-myabs-myparameter or
mypatch.myabs.myparameter or
mypatch_myabs_myparameter or whatever. so you can hijack your channel
aux-sender with anything.

but that means you can't open a patch multiple times, no problem for me 
because i reuse code always with abstractions.

does somebody run 1 patch multiple times?
(sounds like fun would you mind and share?)


i look forward to the lazy-vote :)

eni



> * When working with stereo, Left and Right pairs are written with Le
> and Ri appended (to distinguish them from an R denoting "receive",
> above)
> 
> Programming recommendations
> * To invert a toggle, use [== 0]
> * Use the loadbang of the parent of both abstractions to initialize
> two or more interdependent abstractions
> 
> [1] I think of this like emulating the "self" convention in Python
> 

Programming recommendations

always use [trigger] for 1tomany connections














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Re: [PD] Calling Mac OS X 10.3 Panther users! Please test new release!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> Try this one:
> 
> http://idmi.poly.edu/pdlab/Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc3/Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc3-macosx103-powerpc.dmg
>  
> 
> 
> This rc3 build worked on 10.3, so it should be possible to make a final 
> 10.3 release without too much work.
> 
> .hc
> 

there was a typo in the link. this worked for me:
http://idmi.poly.edu/pdlab/Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc3-macosx103-powerpc.dmg



looks good now! Pd opens.

zexy (and <~), maxlib, t3_lib are ok.

matrix can't create but iemmatrix/matrix does
(note: with rc4 [matrix] works)

Gem, PDP, and Pidip seem to not do well.

eni






libdir loader $Revision: 1.8 $
written by Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
compiled on Jul  1 2008 at 04:02:40
compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080701
hex loader $Revision: 1.5 $
written by IOhannes m zmölnig, IEM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
compiled on Jul  1 2008 at 04:02:41
compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080701
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib  (No such file
or directory, errno = 2)

/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib  (No such file
or directory, errno = 2)

Gem: can't load library
libdir_loader: added 'cyclone' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'zexy' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'creb' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'cxc' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'iemlib' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'list-abs' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'mapping' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'markex' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'maxlib' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'memento' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'mjlib' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'motex' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'oscx' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'pddp' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'pdogg' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'pixeltango' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'pmpd' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'rradical' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'sigpack' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'smlib' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'toxy' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'unauthorized' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'pan' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'freeverb' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'hcs' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'jmmmp' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'ext13' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'ggee' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'flib' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'ekext' to the global objectclass path
libdir_loader: added 'flatspace' to the global objectclass path
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pdp.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib  (No such file or
directory, errno = 2)

/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pdp.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib  (No such file or
directory, errno = 2)

pdp: can't load library
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pidip.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib  (No such file or
directory, errno = 2)

/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pidip.pd_darwin:
dlcompat: dyld:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd
can't open library: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib  (No such file or
directory, errno = 2)

pidip: can't load library


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[PD] Pd-0.41-4 can't extract

[Enrique Erne]

pd-0.41-4.mac.tar.gz from http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html

i get

Could not extract the file "Pd-0.41-4.app/Contents": Could not create 
the folder

this is on i386 osx 10.5.4 the file is 5.5MB

does anybody else have the same error?

eni

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Re: [PD] New sssad.pd now in SVN repository - please test! [was: sssad slowness]

[Enrique Erne]

Hi
Frank Barknecht wrote:

Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:

now the point why i write this email:
it would be nice to have a little note in sssad-help that says 
"initializing is strongly recommended" or similar.


Hm, probably [sssad] should get a [route bang] after the [route save]
as well to prohibit saving parameters that haven't been initialized -
similar to the protection of the outlet. I attached a version which
has this with a little demo patch.


That looks great. Still, personally I will initialize all keys, this 
guarantees to always have complete presets.


[loadbang]
 |
[;
SSSAD vol 20, freq 42, other 1.2345(




An other minor issue:

In my post before I wrote to do [SSSAD_ADMIN set( on load, but on a 
second thought this is not good practice. It would force all SSSAD to 
output their value, even other already existing patches.


Basically i would like it if there was a possibility to let some SSSAD 
instances in a new patch output the value. Attached SSSAD has a possible 
solution.




case 1) ___

 [sssad vol]
  |
[*~ 0.5]

Here SSSAD would not be initialized.




case 2) ___

[loadbang]
 |
[;
SSSAD vol 0.5(

 [sssad vol]
  |
[*~ 0.5]

Here all is good except i don't want to write the value twice.




case 3) ___

[loadbang]
 |
[;
SSSAD vol 0.5(

 [sssad vol]
/
[*~]

*~ is missing the init value. It would work with [SSSAD_ADMIN set( but 
then all SSSAD's will output their value. That seems wrong.





case 4) ___

[loadbang]
 |
[;
SSSAD vol 0.5, vol bang(

 [sssad vol]
/
[*~]


How about something like that? [SSSAD vol bang( could be used to specify 
one key to output it's value. One more [route bang] would be required.


One could argue [SSSAD vol bang( should delete the value, but i can't 
think of a use of having a key without value.



In attached SSSAD i have 2 minor changes.

A [route bang] to
- output a specific key
(i like that change a lot and see no problem)

$1 in [route save $1] to
- save a specific key
(this is not a clean solution and doesn't work when with [sssad save] 
instance, but it would allow to collect specific data)


wow pretty long email for such a minor thing.
thanks for having a look at it :)

eni
#N canvas 282 224 783 400 10;
#X floatatom 130 69 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X floatatom 138 102 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 594 192 list prepend add;
#X obj 594 218 list trim;
#X obj 438 267 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 594 124 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 594 168 route persist;
#X obj 594 146 list trim;
#X msg 438 201 save;
#X msg 452 240 set;
#X obj 438 63 bng 24 250 50 0 empty empty save_all 0 -6 0 8 -262144
-1 -1;
#X msg 594 258 other-patch 8 \; freq 12 \; vol 11 \;;
#X obj 438 134 t b b;
#X msg 470 167 set;
#X obj 57 66 sssad vol;
#X obj 56 157 loadbang;
#X floatatom 192 289 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X msg 57 180 \; SSSAD vol 11 \, vol bang \; SSSAD freq 12 \, freq
bang;
#X obj 290 59 bng 24 250 50 0 empty empty save_this_patch 0 -6 0 8
-262144 -1 -1;
#X obj 285 104 t b b;
#X msg 319 128 set;
#X obj 58 101 sssad freq;
#X obj 72 288 sssad other-patch;
#X msg 281 156 \; SSSAD_ADMIN vol \, freq;
#X connect 0 0 14 1;
#X connect 1 0 21 1;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 11 0;
#X connect 5 0 7 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 0;
#X connect 8 0 4 0;
#X connect 9 0 4 0;
#X connect 10 0 12 0;
#X connect 12 0 8 0;
#X connect 12 1 13 0;
#X connect 13 0 11 0;
#X connect 14 0 0 0;
#X connect 15 0 17 0;
#X connect 16 0 22 1;
#X connect 18 0 19 0;
#X connect 19 0 23 0;
#X connect 19 1 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 11 0;
#X connect 21 0 1 0;
#X connect 22 0 16 0;
#N canvas 58 42 1019 539 10;
#X obj 123 24 inlet;
#X obj 197 130 r SSSAD;
#X obj 197 87 s SSSAD;
#X obj 197 53 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 197 158 list trim;
#X obj 197 23 inlet;
#X obj 16 258 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 16 306 b;
#X obj 16 284 route set;
#X obj 123 51 b;
#X obj 197 221 route \$1;
#X obj 574 442 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 507 156 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 507 304 b;
#X obj 507 248 spigot;
#X obj 633 70 loadbang;
#X obj 633 248 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1
1;
#X obj 633 93 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 633 192 select 0;
#X obj 665 139 + 1;
#X obj 665 162 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 633 118 t a a;
#X obj 633 214 f 1;
#X obj 190 420 outlet;
#X obj 123 394 route bang;
#X text 207 393 filter out empty lists;
#X obj 574 412 list prepend persist \$1;
#X obj 123 365 list append;
#X text 195 108 on SSSAD we eavesdrop the communication;
#X text 656 247 <- only the first instance responds to "save";
#X text 129 498 2007/2008 fbar;
#X text 780 93 Enhancement by Enrique Erne;
#X obj 507 363 list append;
#X obj 507 386 route bang;
#X text 591 385 filter out empty lists here \, too.;
#X obj 196 249 route bang;
#X obj 507 275 route save \$1;
#X text 266 240 to output a specific key;
#X text 539 297 dol1 to save a specific key;
#

Re: [PD] quick start

[Enrique Erne]

hi Bruce

netpd http://www.netpd.org/software/netpd.tar.gz
is a pd project and should work with Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended as long 
as you have the right externals installed.

some of our users are not into puredata so we have packages for osx and 
windows containing Pd-vanilla with the right externals.

i suggest you to use Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4 from 
http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html since it contains probably 
everything you need.

good luck
eni


Bruce LANE wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have been playing with pd for 2 days on ubuntu-studio, and some things are
> not clear in my mind:
> To install the pd-extended package, ubuntu-studio's pd needed to be removed.
> The same is happening when I try to install net-pd
> - what is the difference between netpd, pd-extended, and ubuntu-studio's pd?
> - why do we have to deal with several pd software?
> 
> I need pmpd, gem, networking several pcs to communicate midi notes and
> controllers, etc, so any hint to quick start?
> 
> Thanks
> Batchass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] New sssad.pd now in SVN repository - please test! [was: sssad slowness]

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> It should behave just as before except for one thing: Sending a "set"
> to SSSAD_ADMIN or sending a "bang" into the first inlet of a [sssad]
> object will never output a single bang on the [sssad]'s outlet. So
> uninitialized [sssad] objects where just an empty list is stored will
> stay silent until they receive some valid data.

just a small remark about uninitialized [sssad] instances:

scenario:

1)
[sssad vol]
[sssad freq]

2)
change freq and save a preset XYZ
SSSAD_ADMIN: list persist freq 21
SSSAD_ADMIN: list persist vol
(note vol has no value!)

3)
a week later in a live session.. the vol now has been changed and 
doesn't have its default value. let's say it's 0.

4)
now load preset XYZ
loading meaning something like the following:
|;/
|SSSAD vol, freq 64;  |
|SSSAD_ADMIN set  \

5)
now vol will output nothing and [sssad vol] will be empty. but the 
object that gets the value from vol remains on 0, which was the last 
value set. the problem is that the preset doesn't sound the same as one 
week before.

thus)
i think sssad behaves correct. i think this problem is the usage of 
uninitialized [sssad] objects. IMO a patch developer should care to 
always store key _with_ values. therefore i suggest to always initialize 
all sssad keys in your abstraction or patch.
maybe like that:

[loadbang]
  |
|;   /
|SSSAD vol 73, freq 64;  |
|SSSAD_ADMIN set \

a different approach could be an empty symbol, but i don't like that. 
also one could check all values when loading a preset and checking for 
empty values but that's really ugly too.

now the point why i write this email:
it would be nice to have a little note in sssad-help that says 
"initializing is strongly recommended" or similar.

what do you think?

eni

frank: it's very nice that you mention me thanks, but i am also fine 
without, it was more a rearrangement of existing code. if you have a 
changelog it'd be happy there. otherwise you can remove it whenever you 
want.

thanks












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Re: [PD] Calling Mac OS X 10.3 Panther users! Please test new release!

[Enrique Erne]

Hi

on 10.3 it jumped twice... that's it.
perfect bug report, hum? :)

are there many 10.3 user or could we drop Panther?

eni



Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I no longer have access to a Mac OS X 10.3 Panther machine, but I  
> would like to make a working Pd-extended release for that OS.  If you  
> are running 10.3/Panther, please test this version and let me know if  
> it works for you:
> 
> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/pure-data/Pd-0.40.3-extended- 
> macosx103.dmg
> 
> .hc
> 
>  
> 
> 
> All information should be free.  - the hacker ethic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:

additionally i created a new [sssad key] "on the fly". this one has now 
thanks to the original method (of singleton) no initial first setting.

...but if created "on the fly" it does not have the correct content.
-->but the original sssad has the same problem afaik.


Yes, that's true, but IMO it's not a big problem: Just press "set"
twice. ;)


surely no problem for me.


(The known bigger problem is that deleting the first [sssad key] will
break all other [sssad key] until you reload the patch. 


i had an idea about that. in the last version every sssad instance 
stores the content. this was not on purpose but it could be used to do a 
check on the event of saving. the loadband event is now exchanged and 
the check is when the user does the save. one disadvantage is that there 
is more sssad communication everytime a user saves. not sure if you want 
to go that way.

please check the attached version.

eni
#N canvas 267 25 801 443 10;
#X obj 133 24 inlet;
#X obj 133 387 outlet;
#X obj 133 315 list;
#X obj 156 131 r SSSAD;
#X obj 198 96 s SSSAD;
#X obj 198 64 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 156 159 list trim;
#X obj 198 24 inlet;
#X obj 36 218 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 36 276 b;
#X obj 36 248 route set;
#X obj 133 51 b;
#X obj 156 222 route \$1;
#X obj 286 311 list;
#X obj 286 382 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 286 131 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 286 239 spigot;
#X obj 619 226 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1
1;
#X obj 600 77 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 600 137 select 0;
#X obj 600 167 f 1;
#X obj 286 341 list prepend persist \$1;
#X obj 286 169 route save;
#X obj 286 199 t b b;
#X msg 509 303 0;
#X obj 482 357 s \$1.SSSAD.ask;
#X obj 600 107 t a b;
#X obj 509 328 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 599 46 r \$1.SSSAD.ask;
#X obj 482 279 t b b;
#X obj 685 101 + 1;
#X obj 600 191 t a;
#X text 642 225 <- boss?;
#X connect 0 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 12 0;
#X connect 7 0 5 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 2 0;
#X connect 10 0 9 0;
#X connect 11 0 2 0;
#X connect 12 0 2 1;
#X connect 12 0 13 1;
#X connect 13 0 21 0;
#X connect 15 0 22 0;
#X connect 16 0 13 0;
#X connect 18 0 26 0;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 31 0;
#X connect 21 0 14 0;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 23 0 16 0;
#X connect 23 1 29 0;
#X connect 24 0 27 0;
#X connect 24 0 31 0;
#X connect 26 0 19 0;
#X connect 26 1 30 0;
#X connect 28 0 18 0;
#X connect 29 0 25 0;
#X connect 29 1 24 0;
#X connect 30 0 18 0;
#X connect 31 0 16 1;
#X connect 31 0 17 0;
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Re: [PD] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc4 released

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> It's looking quite stable, so please try it if you haven't already so
>>> we can find the last bugs.  As far as I know, there aren't any
>>> outstanding bugs that need to be fixed for this release.

Hi Hans

I tested netpd with pd-extended-rc4 from at.or.at. all works great!

matrix
t3_delay
zexy's <~ (abs with expr)

every patch is working!! even one synth which never worked on osx 
(because of resofilt~)

and the gui looks very pretty! great work!

thanks eni


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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> 
> I'll do some more tests after work, but it seems now all is
> as with singleton and if it indeed is, I'd like to include your
> change.

that would be very nice. i suppose we could make it also a tiny bit 
lighter (reducing objects) on cost of readability. but maybe only 1 or 2 
connections would cross.

eni

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

Enrique Erne wrote:


i did some testing with sssad-help.pd and the modified sssad.

1) inside the [sssad key] only the first (most top) instance of sssad 
has the active toggle. i guess that's due to creation order.


one thing i noticed is that your version does not work "on the fly",
everything works fine wwhen you open a new patch containing 2 instances 
of [sssad key].


however, it doesn't always work so like this. e.g.:
if i create a new [sssad key] object it will be "first" (toggle on)
if i create another [sssad key] object, it will be "first" again! 
(toggle on).




good to know.

i now removed my system (with r and s) and replaced it with the 
singleton's method with [value]. good thing it now has the same name as 
before ($1.SSSAD.req).


i repeated my test 1 - 3 from before. it seems all correct.

additionally i created a new [sssad key] "on the fly". this one has now 
thanks to the original method (of singleton) no initial first setting.

...but if created "on the fly" it does not have the correct content.
-->but the original sssad has the same problem afaik.

attached is the the latest sssad, please test.

eni
#N canvas 267 25 773 461 10;
#X obj 153 54 inlet;
#X obj 153 417 outlet;
#X obj 153 395 list;
#X obj 176 161 r SSSAD;
#X obj 218 134 s SSSAD;
#X obj 218 112 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 176 189 list trim;
#X obj 218 54 inlet;
#X obj 56 308 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 56 356 b;
#X obj 56 334 route set;
#X obj 153 81 b;
#X obj 176 252 route \$1;
#X obj 191 282 s \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 302 list;
#X obj 372 362 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 372 389 list prepend persist;
#X obj 372 412 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 190 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 236 route save;
#X obj 372 258 b;
#X obj 395 279 r \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 212 spigot;
#X obj 550 98 loadbang;
#X obj 549 281 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1
1;
#X text 572 280 <- first?;
#X obj 550 121 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 550 220 select 0;
#X obj 582 167 + 1;
#X obj 582 190 value \$1.SSSAD.req;
#X obj 550 146 t a a;
#X obj 550 242 f 1;
#X connect 0 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 12 0;
#X connect 7 0 5 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 2 0;
#X connect 10 0 9 0;
#X connect 11 0 2 0;
#X connect 12 0 2 1;
#X connect 12 0 13 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 18 0 22 0;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 14 0;
#X connect 21 0 14 1;
#X connect 22 0 19 0;
#X connect 23 0 26 0;
#X connect 26 0 30 0;
#X connect 27 0 31 0;
#X connect 28 0 29 0;
#X connect 30 0 27 0;
#X connect 30 1 28 0;
#X connect 31 0 22 1;
#X connect 31 0 24 0;
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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

Enrique Erne wrote:
> Frank Barknecht wrote:
>> Hallo,
>> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
>>
>>> i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.
>>
>> The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs,
>> which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential
>> containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type
>> containers like [pool].
>>
>> So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. 
> 
> Hi Frank
> 
> sorry i was not very specific. in fact i did replace the singleton with 
> a little mechanism onload that checks if it is the first and opens up 
> the spigot. all other instances with the same key, that load after the 
> first, wont open the spigot.
> 
> i think it behaves the same. please check the sssad-help and see inside 
> the toggle []<-first
> 
> my naming is probably bad but if there are no other problems and you 
> approve it would be nice if you could include it into the main version.
>

i did some testing with sssad-help.pd and the modified sssad.

1) inside the [sssad key] only the first (most top) instance of sssad 
has the active toggle. i guess that's due to creation order.

2) [pd SSAD-globals] set->SSSAD_ADMIN prints
@key_3: 7
@key_2: 7
@key_1: 7

3) [pd SSAD-globals] activate SSSAD_ADMIN then save->SSSAD_ADMIN prints
SSSAD_ADMIN: save
SSSAD_ADMIN: list persist key 7

i think that is the correct behavior. the only thing that bothers me is 
the naming. maybe it would be better to replace the mechanism with the 
original. value $1.SSSAD.req +1 sel 0 etc.

what do you think?

eni

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.
> 
> The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs,
> which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential
> containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type
> containers like [pool].
> 
> So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. 

Hi Frank

sorry i was not very specific. in fact i did replace the singleton with 
a little mechanism onload that checks if it is the first and opens up 
the spigot. all other instances with the same key, that load after the 
first, wont open the spigot.

i think it behaves the same. please check the sssad-help and see inside 
the toggle []<-first

my naming is probably bad but if there are no other problems and you 
approve it would be nice if you could include it into the main version.

please check.

eni

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

[Enrique Erne]

hi Atte

i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.

i hacked together a ad (slim super simple state saving system)
uhm what was the a and the d in the abbreviation for?

Atte would you mind and test my version?
please test for functionality and loading time. i might have overseen 
something.


good luck

eni

(i removed the singleton and included persistence)


Atte André Jensen wrote:

Hi

Ok, so I'm playing with sssad, and it's really easy to work with. I 
saved some of the settings in my "environment" (a sssad save is here: 
http://atte.dk/download/test_alive.txt). Loading/saving the state itself 
is snappy, but loading the main patch is really slow (hogs the machine 
for 15 seconds, before the load is complete). With plans to add more 
things to the state, I figure something else must be done. So:


1) Is this normal behaviour of sssad?

2) Should I change something in my setup (backend, ramdisk)? I guess 
this is not is the part of the problem since loading a state is fast but 
regular load of the sssad-enabled patch is sloow, but what do I know...


3) Is something broken in my sssad install? I had problems, that I 
solved by moving sssad* to /usr/lib/pd/extra/ (from 
/usr/lib/pd/extra/sssad/), but that might have left some badness behind.


BTW: sssad-example, (from which I copied stuff) also loads quite slow, 
maybe 2-3 seconds.




#N canvas 267 25 728 505 10;
#X obj 153 54 inlet;
#X obj 153 417 outlet;
#X obj 153 395 list;
#X obj 176 161 r SSSAD;
#X obj 218 134 s SSSAD;
#X obj 218 112 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 176 189 list trim;
#X obj 218 54 inlet;
#X obj 56 308 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 56 356 b;
#X obj 56 334 route set;
#X obj 153 81 b;
#X obj 176 252 route \$1;
#X obj 191 282 s \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 302 list;
#X obj 372 362 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 372 389 list prepend persist;
#X obj 372 412 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 190 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 236 route save;
#X obj 372 258 b;
#X obj 395 279 r \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 212 spigot;
#X obj 508 154 loadbang;
#X obj 508 208 f 1;
#X obj 540 258 sel 1;
#X obj 525 182 r SSSAD_\$1.test;
#X obj 540 303 s SSSAD_\$1.test;
#X obj 540 279 f 0;
#X obj 508 234 t a a;
#X obj 526 338 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0
1;
#X text 549 337 <- first?;
#X connect 0 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 12 0;
#X connect 7 0 5 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 2 0;
#X connect 10 0 9 0;
#X connect 11 0 2 0;
#X connect 12 0 2 1;
#X connect 12 0 13 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 18 0 22 0;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 14 0;
#X connect 21 0 14 1;
#X connect 22 0 19 0;
#X connect 23 0 24 0;
#X connect 24 0 29 0;
#X connect 25 0 28 0;
#X connect 26 0 24 1;
#X connect 28 0 27 0;
#X connect 29 0 22 1;
#X connect 29 0 30 0;
#X connect 29 1 25 0;
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Re: [PD] saving state of a patch

[Enrique Erne]

Phil Stone wrote:
> Hi Atte,
> 
> Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you should 
> know.  If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, consider using 
> a ram disk to hold your presets during performance.  This solved all my 
> dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post a script for OS X if 
> anyone wants it).


Hi Phil

yes please post the script.

thanks
eni

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Re: [PD] make money not art

[Enrique Erne]

raul diaz wrote:
> Hi List!
> 
> Sorry for the delayed answer...
> 
> I find really interesting marius' topic.
> I was fighting with standalone application with processing+pd, but I only
> made a *.bat file which runs processing executable and pd. This *.bat allows
> to specify any pd configurations (audio rate, libraries, gui/nogui, etc..).
> But the problem of this kind of standalone based on bat file is that is only
> available for windows.
> 
> I haven't knowledge on binaries packages and distributions for different OS.
> 
> But I suposse some people on this list would have some experience with this
> kind of binary data and distributions, and I would like to know its opinion
> about possibilities for pd+gem or pd+processing standalone applications.
> 
> That's a wonderfull way to build really interesting sound applications with
> friendly and nice interfaces.
> 
> I'll wait for your ideas!
> 
> Saludos!
> 


hi raul

i did some tests on mac osx a while ago. so far i can open pd and a 
patch from processing. i suppose the best way to do configurations 
(nogui) would be with the pd.app internal .plist but it would have to 
ignore the .plist in ~/Library/Preferences. I haven't tried the 
standalone approach in recent pd-extended yet. I guess it would be a 
good thing if the patch could controll as much as possible of the 
configurration for example the externals.

so we got windows and macosx working...

how about building apps for linux?

eni

btw: could we change the topic? "make applications", "processing+pd" or 
"pd+processing standalone applications"





import com.apple.cocoa.foundation.*;

void setup() {
   String script = "do shell script \"open -a 
Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd-extended ";

   script = script+"/Users/pd/Desktop/testing/yoyo.pd\"";

   executeScript(script);
}

void executeScript(String script) {
   NSAppleScript myScript = new NSAppleScript(script);
   NSMutableDictionary errors = new NSMutableDictionary();
   myScript.execute(errors);
}



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Re: [PD] saving state of a patch

[Enrique Erne]

Atte André Jensen wrote:
> At the end of the day, what would be the best bet, state, pool, memento 
> or pdmtl?
> 
> I should note that what I'm trying to do is work out some abstractions 
> for live electronica, and now I need a way to save piece1.pd and 
> another_piece.pd which contains one or more instances of one or more of 
> my abstractions, complete with gui settings and all. If I could just 
> press "save all this, so everything I loaded in this patch is exactly 
> the same when I open it again" I'd be sooo happy :-)
> 

sssad, bag of tricks and netpd are worth mentioning here too.

i only know little about bag of tricks but its state saving approach is 
based on a message box per gop that allows you to save the state of the 
abstractions with your patch.

you should have a look at netpd level 3 (in netpd/tutorials), where all 
parameters can be saved and loaded in a preset file. basically something 
like that:

[symbol savename(
  |
  |   [symbol loadname(
  ||
[netpd-x mypatchname]

on top of that i wrote a little abstraction (pad) that handles these 
save-load-names for you and allows inter-patch-communication, so 
"save-all" does work.

[pad mypatchname]
  | \
[netpd-x mypatchname]

in a 2 approach there is one additional preset-manager (P-Admin) that 
talks to all (pads) and collects data and writes it to a single file. 
(instead of 1 preset per patch). the format here (unlike netpd native 
.pst format) is
patchname parametername and-whatever-number-list-or-array-you-have-here

but once you are here you think about more...
- howto morph between presets
- howto reuse some data from abstractions (effects, envelopes, seqs) in 
other instances (osc?!)
- howto load presets without clicks (i.e. load data into a table or 
dynamically create effects)

as i said, i think it's worth looking at the 3 approaches sssad, bot, 
netpd too

hope that helps or inspires.

eni





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Re: [PD] really annoying question about tildes~

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>> (and was almost solved in Pd-vanilla - but alas! in the end it was not),
>> what was the reason for that? 
> 
> who knows?

the inability of the pd community to agree on a standard
(on a social level)

please correct me if i'm wrong.

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Re: [PD] smallest number from a stream of numbers

[Enrique Erne]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> cyrille henry hat gesagt: // cyrille henry wrote:
> 
>> Ben Carney a écrit :
>>> Hello there list!
>>>
>>> pretty simple question I think, but I'm a bit stumped.
>>>
>>> I have a stream of numbers coming in from a flex sensor and I would love 
>>> to be able to grab the lowest number from x amount of numbers, every 30 
>>> numbers or so.
>>>
>>> I looked through the [list minmax] example, but could not figure out how 
>>> to make it do it "live".
>>>
>>  |
>> [mapping/last_n 30]
>>  |
>> [list minmax]
>>  |
> 
> Or 
> 
>  [list-lastx 30]
>  |
>  [list-minmax] 
>  

Or how about

/\
[moses]  \
| \
[trigger a a]

with a handmade counter that resets moses every n'th time.

eni

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Re: [PD] make money not art

[Enrique Erne]

marius schebella wrote:
> Hi,
> has someone experience in distributing and probably selling pd 
> standalones? I was thinking of a combination of flash interface (or 
> Gem?) and sound patch.
> right now I think the best way to do this would be to create an 
> executable application for every platform and architecture including the 
> used external libraries. The patch would start up in -nogui mode, 
> although I am not sure how to handle sound settings from within the 
> application.

hi marius

i love the puredata&processing combunation that raul diaz has posted 
what do you think about that?

http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-06/062706.html

eni

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot 
> write objects with filenames containing special characters.

should it work on osx? it never worked for me. i reported it a couple of 
times and last time i checked the bugtracker there was a very old open 
bug report about that.

the best i ever had was that it loaded an abstraction with expr~ inside 
that could not create.

it would be very nice to have a fully working zexy on pd-extended for 
all platforms.


load_object: Symbol "0x3c0x7e_setup" not found
error: BUG: no pd_objectmaker found
  <~
... couldn't create


Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080622 on 10.5.3
(not the newest one)


eni

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Re: [PD] XML-files

[Enrique Erne]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How is it possible to make-XML files useable in Pd.
> e.g for controlling

maybe [pool] ?

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Re: [PD] sssad and polywavesynth

[Enrique Erne]

hi Luigi

could you pack the synth in an abstraction and give it an ID as 
arguemnt? then u could use the $1 as prefix for all your parameters and 
sssad.

but this way you can't load a preset from the other instance. this 
problem could be solved with OSC or a list for each parameter.
i.e. "synthA/freq 123" or "synthA freq 123"

good luck :)

eni



Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
> Dear List
> 
> If someone also uses the great "Polywavesynth".well
> 
> i have a little weird problem..
> 
> I would like to use two of them in one patch and store and recall 
> presets for each of them..
> 
> lets say poly1 and poly2...
> 
> i create sssad_panel poly1 and poly2
> 
> but if i save a preset from poly1 it also catches the values from poly2 
> so.they are not 100% independent from each other..
> 
> It might be a bit complicated to unterstand...but the same probably 
> happens with anything that is stored with sssad
> 
> What am i doing wrong
> 
> Thanks Luigi
> 
> 
> 
>  >---<
> 
> Luigi Rensinghoff
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> skype:gigischinke
> ichat:gigicarlo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc1 released

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> That one is stymying IOhannes, if anyone has any suggestions.
> 
> i think i might have fixed this in the Pd-extended/v0-40 branch (by 
> applying patch-#1990599 to pd/)
> 
> tell me if it starts working tomorrow...
>

with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080614-macosx105-i386


libdir loader $Revision: 1.8 $
written by Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
compiled on Jun 14 2008 at 03:36:53
compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080614
hex loader $Revision: 1.5 $
written by IOhannes m zmölnig, IEM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
compiled on Jun 14 2008 at 03:36:53
compiled against Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20080614

..snip..

load_object: Symbol "0x3c0x7e_setup" not found
error: BUG: no pd_objectmaker found
  <~
... couldn't create



eni

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Re: [PD] Size of a table

[Enrique Erne]

marius schebella wrote:
> Hans Roels wrote:
>> Apart from [soundfiler] I use this trick to get the size of any array 
>> (audio or data) in pd vanilla:
>> (array1 = the name of an example array)
>>
>> bang
>> |
>> [expr size("array1")]
>> |
>> print
>>
>> or replace the expr with [expr size("$s2")] and connect a message 
>> [symbol array1( to the second inlet of this expr object
>>
>> hans r
> 
> hi,
> that's cool. did not know that expr can do that! are there more features 
> of expr that are hidden or unknown??
> marius.
> 

very nice indeed. i remember sven posted once a way to directly access 
the value of [value] with expr but i can't remember.
eni

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[PD] declare who? what?

[Enrique Erne]

hi

my original subject was "pd-extended: <~ and matrix" but now i got 
confused so i renamed it. the newest pd-extended can't create [<~] nor 
[matrix] on default.

[<~] on the 20080523 could create (with an expr~ couldn't create error) 
now the [<~] can't create anymore. should i file a new bug report for 
hexloader or is it covered by
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1637460&group_id=55736&atid=478070

matrix:
so far netpd provides a [declare -stdlib iemmatrix] and a
[declare -stdpath ../extra/iemmatrix] for pd-extended, but this seems to 
not work anymore. it is working with pd-ext-20080516 and _not_ working 
with 20080523. [matrix] creates when i first do a [iemmatrix/matrix] and 
then load my patches.

i also checked the matrix-help bugreport
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=478070&aid=1965876&group_id=55736
eighthave says:
"I added '#X declare -lib iemmatrix' to the help files, so this should 
work now. Please test tomorrow."

i checked it today and the help files is really working. the declare 
help file says:
-lib load a library, relative to the patch
maybe i must have missunderstand but the patch in this case would be 
netpd's _chat.pd wouldn't it?

relative to _chat.pd on my system would be something like:
../../../Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/extra
or similar. why is -lib iemmatrix working?

is the declare-help file wrong?

also i am a bit disappointed that one can not write abstractions, that 
declares what it depends on. but probably that has some technical reason.




thanks eni






Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080602-macosx105-i386

  matrix
... couldn't create

load_object: Symbol "0x3c0x7e_setup" not found
error: BUG: no pd_objectmaker found
  <~
... couldn't create
load_object: Symbol "0x3c0x7e_setup" not found
error: BUG: no pd_objectmaker found
  zexy/<~
... couldn't create

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Re: [PD] netpd broken?

[Enrique Erne]

i can open netpd, log in, chat... but as soon as i open creator i get
error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object
and a empty windows pops up: pd cr.singletons (no dash)
netloading a netpd patch doens't work



now i got it to. just tried it with:
Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080531-macosx105-i386

it seems that some dynamic patching tricks are broken. attached example 
isn't working anymore :(. it creates the container subpatches but can't 
create the abstraction inside. could somebody confirm that?


eni
#N canvas 386 22 527 592 10;
#N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 2-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 40 pd 2-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 3-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 60 pd 3-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 11-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 220 pd 11-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 15-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 300 pd 15-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 19-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 380 pd 19-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 24-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 480 pd 24-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 25-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 500 pd 25-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 29-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 580 pd 29-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 32-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 640 pd 32-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 33-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 660 pd 33-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 34-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 680 pd 34-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 40-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 800 pd 40-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 51-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 1020 pd 51-subsub;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 1-subsub 0;
#X restore 10 20 pd 1-subsub;
#X restore 21 22 pd sub;
#X msg 24 392 \; pd-sub clear;
#X msg 24 233 \; pd-sub loadbang;
#X floatatom 24 79 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 52 136 * 20;
#X obj 24 96 t f f f;
#X obj 24 116 makefilename pd-%d-subsub;
#X obj 24 156 pack s f f;
#X obj 24 325 makefilename pd-%d-subsub;
#X msg 24 347 \; \$1 clear;
#X floatatom 24 306 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X text 79 22 add and remove abstractions;
#X msg 21 53 1;
#X msg 61 53 2;
#X msg 97 53 3;
#X text 149 53 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions;
#X text 148 237 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do
that manually;
#X msg 24 283 1;
#X msg 64 283 2;
#X msg 100 283 3;
#X text 142 398 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch);
#X text 145 282 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are;
#X text 23 506 e) if your abstraction does signal processing you need
to rebuild the dsptree. you could do so by either turn off/on [pd dsp
0 \, pd dsp 1( or dynamically create an other ~-object in a subpatch
and clear it again.;
#X text 25 439 d) if your abstraction has a gui inside that you want
to open sepparately \, use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch
[pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch.
;
#X msg 24 176 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 my-abstraction
\$3;
#X connect 3 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 1;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 1 4 0;
#X connect 5 2 7 2;
#X connect 6 0 7 0;
#X connect 7 0 24 0;
#X connect 8 0 9 0;
#X connect 10 0 8 0;
#X connect 12 0 3 0;
#X connect 13 0 3 0;
#X connect 14 0 3 0;
#X connect 17 0 10 0;
#X connect 18 0 10 0;
#X connect 19 0 10 0;
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Re: [PD] netpd broken?

[Enrique Erne]

Max Neupert wrote:
> servus roman, list,
> 
> i wanted to demonstrate netpd today here in melbourne and failed.
> on a intel mac os x 10.5:
> with a fresh pd-extended 0.4xx and downloaded netpd.zip i can open 
> _chat.pd. then when i click on creator additionally a blank patch pops 
> up called "pd cr.singletons" the console spills out:
> 
>  netclient
> ... couldn't create
> error: inlet: expected '' but got 'connect'
> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
> error: pd-cr.singletons: no such object
> 

hi max

which exact version have u tried?

have u removed the ~Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist before you 
run the newest pd-extended?

this versions have been working more or less:
on intel osx 10.5
Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080222
Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080504
Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080516
Pd-extended (20080523)
some problem with <~ and a new one with matrix
(only working as iemmatrix/matrix).

now i tried pd-netpd-osx.tar.gz from http://netpd.org/download
and it worked surprisingly well. <~, matrix, t3_del all creates fine..
i suggest to try this one too.

cheers eni

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Re: [PD] call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> On May 17, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Enrique Erne wrote:
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> On May 13, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Enrique Erne wrote:
>>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I've been fixing quite a lot of bugs in preparation of making the 
>>>>> Pd- extended 0.40.3 release.  It's getting pretty much ready, so 
>>>>> please  test it heavily so we can find any outstanding bugs!
>>>>> Jack just pointed out that pdp on Mac OS X/PowerPC is having 
>>>>> problems  loading videos, and is crashing, so I am working on that 
>>>>> now.
>>>> some objects can't create. i think that all of them are know 
>>>> problems. for me not be able to use <~ and >~ is _most_ annoying 
>>>> (hexloader-something?). i know there are workarounds with expr.
>>>> not including iem-t3 lib is a loss but i can live without it. thou 
>>>> it makes around 5 nice netpd patches not usable anymore.
>>> You can now file bug reports from the Help menu in Pd-extended. 
>>> Please file a bug report for this.
>> i wrote a bug report for iem_t3
>> i'm not sure about the hexloader. i found this:
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1637460&group_id=55736&atid=478070
>>  
>> should i file a new bug report?
> 
> hexloader should be included in tomorrow's build.  Please test it.  The 
> t3 stuff should be in today's build.

for some reason the osx i386 didn't build.
http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2008-05-19/logs/2008-05-19_03.15.00_darwin_macosx104-i386_pd-extended_run-automated-builder.txt

so i tested with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080519-macosx104-powerpc in 
Rosetta mode.

it3_delay and the other t3's work!

the hexloader seems to work too

but [<~] is now doing a:

load_object: Symbol "0x3e0x7e_setup" not found
  expr~ $v1 > $v2
... couldn't create

i don't understand the issue here. it seems to load an abstraction 
0x3c0x7e.pd with [expr~ $v1 > $v2] and expr~ somehow doesn't create.

when i load a plain [expr~] it _can_ create. and after doing so [<~] is 
working as well...

should i file a bugreport for... uhm..
expr or 0x3c0x7e.pd ?



i found a new one in the Help/Search input field i can't write anything. 
  should i file a bug report for this?


eni



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Re: [PD] help files was: Re: call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 19:50 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 i'm not a developer but i would vote for declare
 i.e. [declare -stdlib mrpeach] to packOSC-help.pd
 then it would work with pd vanilla too.
>>> The declare/namespace/import stuff is still very undefined, so I  
>>> think some experiementation would be good.  I think you should go  
>>> ahead and try it using what you propose.  That will be a good test  
>>> case.  Then we'll figure out what works best.
>> putting the helppatches besides the objects should fix most of the 
>> problems, no?
>> no need for [declare] orgies and such
> yo.. it would seem strange having to put [declare]s into help-patches in
> order to load the the objects, that they are explaining, IMO.

maybe i miss something:

to it seems _not_ strange to have a working help patch. the declare is 
documenting how one can use the object-class of the external (one of the 
4, 5... 6 ways).

or do you think a user should configure the plist/pdrc/registry first 
and restart Pd before he can use the documentation/helpfile?

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Re: [PD] help files was: Re: call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> On May 17, 2008, at 5:50 PM, Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> There is much that can and should be done.  Here's some ideas ranked 
>>> into of difficulty:
>>> - file a bug report when a help patch is not working
>>> - write and improve help patches, and submit them to the patch tracker
>>
>> is there a convention about how to make it work? i.e. should one use 
>> declare, import or namespace prefix?
>>
>> i guess all help-files that are not loaded on default would need a 
>> declare/import/or-namespace in order to work...
>>
>> i want to contribute and help to make "all"/more helpfiles work. i 
>> know there is pddp but afaik it does not solve the 
>> declare/import/or-namespace problem.
>>
>> could all developers express their opinion and agree on how to make 
>> all helpfiles work? :)
> 
> Starting with the PDDP template is a good place to start:
> 
> http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/doc/pddp/templates/
>  
> 
> 
>> i'm not a developer but i would vote for declare
>> i.e. [declare -stdlib mrpeach] to packOSC-help.pd
>> then it would work with pd vanilla too.
> 
> The declare/namespace/import stuff is still very undefined, so I think 
> some experiementation would be good.  I think you should go ahead and 
> try it using what you propose.  That will be a good test case.  Then 
> we'll figure out what works best.
> 
> Personally, I would use namespace prefixes:   [mrpeach/packOSC].  This 
> will make more sense when there are libraries organized around concepts 
> rather than authors.  So something like [osc/packOSC]

from a user point of view organizing libraries around concepts would be 
a huge gain. but let's face it: will that every be the case?
(rhetorical, but still i would be very happy if somebody has an answer:) )

i just found that:
http://puredata.info/dev/PdLibraries
http://puredata.info/dev/PdNamespaces


for now i don't know how to help and make the helpfiles work. :(







>>> - add a search pane to the help panel
>>
>> is this done in tcl/tk? is there any documentation about that on 
>> puredata.info?
> 
> It is done however you want to, more or less, but I think a pure Tcl 
> solution would be possible, and perhaps easiest.
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> - help design and code a library format that bundles objectclasses, 
>>> helpfiles, manuals, examples, etc then write code to index it all, 
>>> and create a GUI to navigate that content
>>> At this point, I think it is mostly a waste of time to do constant 
>>> little workarounds like moving around objects.  We should be putting 
>>> our scarce resources towards real improvements, not temporary fixes, 
>>> IMHO.
>>> .hc
>>>
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is 
> publicity.  - Bill Moyers
> 
> 
> 


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[PD] help files was: Re: call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> There is much that can and should be done.  Here's some ideas ranked 
> into of difficulty:
> 
> - file a bug report when a help patch is not working
> - write and improve help patches, and submit them to the patch tracker

is there a convention about how to make it work? i.e. should one use 
declare, import or namespace prefix?

i guess all help-files that are not loaded on default would need a 
declare/import/or-namespace in order to work...

i want to contribute and help to make "all"/more helpfiles work. i know 
there is pddp but afaik it does not solve the 
declare/import/or-namespace problem.

could all developers express their opinion and agree on how to make all 
helpfiles work? :)




i'm not a developer but i would vote for declare
i.e. [declare -stdlib mrpeach] to packOSC-help.pd
then it would work with pd vanilla too.





> - add a search pane to the help panel

is this done in tcl/tk? is there any documentation about that on 
puredata.info?





> - help design and code a library format that bundles objectclasses, 
> helpfiles, manuals, examples, etc then write code to index it all, and 
> create a GUI to navigate that content
> 
> At this point, I think it is mostly a waste of time to do constant 
> little workarounds like moving around objects.  We should be putting our 
> scarce resources towards real improvements, not temporary fixes, IMHO.
> 
> .hc
>

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Re: [PD] call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> On May 13, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> I've been fixing quite a lot of bugs in preparation of making the Pd- 
>>> extended 0.40.3 release.  It's getting pretty much ready, so please  
>>> test it heavily so we can find any outstanding bugs!
>>> Jack just pointed out that pdp on Mac OS X/PowerPC is having 
>>> problems  loading videos, and is crashing, so I am working on that now.
>>> .hc
>>
>>
>> hi Hans
>>
>> i have been happily working with pd-0.40-extended (20080222) for quite 
>> a while. there are some issues though.
>>
>> Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080504-macosx104-i386 on a osx 10.5.2
>>
>> -
>>
>> 1) at the moment if one modifies the preferences of i.e. vanilla pd 
>> the pd-extended looses all path and startup preferences (this is on 
>> osx i don't know about win or linux).
>>
>> i would like to propose that 
>> ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist will be completely ignored 
>> by pd-extended. instead only the org.puredata.pd.plist inside the 
>> pd-extended app should be used.
>> this way one could have different working setups. what do you think?
> 
> I think people want to save preferences for Pd-extended too.  The 
> current situation isn't great, that's true.  If people want separate 
> preferences, that might be a possibility in a future Pd-extended release.

ah i forgot that the file inside the app is not save-able


> 
>>
>> -
>>
>> 2) as i reported earlier
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-01/058787.html
>> some objects can't create. i think that all of them are know problems. 
>> for me not be able to use <~ and >~ is _most_ annoying 
>> (hexloader-something?). i know there are workarounds with expr.
>> not including iem-t3 lib is a loss but i can live without it. thou it 
>> makes around 5 nice netpd patches not usable anymore.
> 
> 
> You can now file bug reports from the Help menu in Pd-extended. Please 
> file a bug report for this.

i wrote a bug report for iem_t3

i'm not sure about the hexloader. i found this:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1637460&group_id=55736&atid=478070
should i file a new bug report?




>> -
>>
>> 3) help files
>> most help files worked (could create) but some:
>>
>> iemmatrix/matrix-help.pd
>>  mtx
>> ... couldn't create
>>
>> mrpeach/packOSC-help.pd
>>  packOSC
>> ... couldn't create
>>
>> sssad/sssad-help.pd
>>  sssad key
>> ... couldn't create
>> libdir_loader: added sssad to the canvas-local path
>>  sssad key
>> ... couldn't create
>>
>> i wondered why some help files worked and some not. i thought it was 
>> done by org.puredata.pd.plist settings. so i added sssad
>> loadlib40
>> sssad
>> restarted pd, but the help files still couldn't create.
> 
> please file bug reports for each of these.

done


> 
>>
>> -
>>
>> 4) name clash
>> [curve] Gem vs. mapping
>> probably some more
> 
> Yeah, that's been around a lot time.
> 
>>
>> -
>>
>> what are the goals? which externals are supposed to work on default? 
>> are that the ones in the plist? maybe we should focus on them (before 
>> i start to open all help files :) )
> 
> The goal is to fine bugs and fix them :).  Some of the bigger well-known 
> problems will have to wait until the next release. The externals in the 
> plist should work without a namespace prefix.  All included externals 
> should work.

uhm . now i filed bug reports for helpfiles of externals that are not on 
the plist. but they work with namespace prefix (except iem_t3)

> 
>> -
>>
>> thanks for all your work and thanks to all the other devs too!
> 
> 
> Thanks for your bug reports and your work with Pd!
> 
> .hc
> 
>>
>> eni
>>
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It's a tactic.  It's 
> about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect 
> we're going to win that war.  We're not going to win the war on 
> terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [PD] call for testing on the nightly builds!

[Enrique Erne]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I've been fixing quite a lot of bugs in preparation of making the Pd- 
> extended 0.40.3 release.  It's getting pretty much ready, so please  
> test it heavily so we can find any outstanding bugs!
> 
> Jack just pointed out that pdp on Mac OS X/PowerPC is having problems  
> loading videos, and is crashing, so I am working on that now.
> 
> .hc


hi Hans

i have been happily working with pd-0.40-extended (20080222) for quite a 
while. there are some issues though.

Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080504-macosx104-i386 on a osx 10.5.2

-

1) at the moment if one modifies the preferences of i.e. vanilla pd the 
pd-extended looses all path and startup preferences (this is on osx i 
don't know about win or linux).

i would like to propose that ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist 
will be completely ignored by pd-extended. instead only the 
org.puredata.pd.plist inside the pd-extended app should be used.
this way one could have different working setups. what do you think?

-

2) as i reported earlier
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-01/058787.html
some objects can't create. i think that all of them are know problems. 
for me not be able to use <~ and >~ is _most_ annoying 
(hexloader-something?). i know there are workarounds with expr.
not including iem-t3 lib is a loss but i can live without it. thou it 
makes around 5 nice netpd patches not usable anymore.

-

3) help files
most help files worked (could create) but some:

iemmatrix/matrix-help.pd
  mtx
... couldn't create

mrpeach/packOSC-help.pd
  packOSC
... couldn't create

sssad/sssad-help.pd
  sssad key
... couldn't create
libdir_loader: added sssad to the canvas-local path
  sssad key
... couldn't create

i wondered why some help files worked and some not. i thought it was 
done by org.puredata.pd.plist settings. so i added sssad
loadlib40
sssad
restarted pd, but the help files still couldn't create.

-

4) name clash
[curve] Gem vs. mapping
probably some more

-

what are the goals? which externals are supposed to work on default? are 
that the ones in the plist? maybe we should focus on them (before i 
start to open all help files :) )

-

thanks for all your work and thanks to all the other devs too!

eni



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Re: [PD] I'm stuck in a corner, please help! RE: [delta~] object was: Re: Cyclone in vanilla?

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Enrique Erne wrote:

IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Enrique Erne wrote:

or [biquad~ 0 0 0 1]


Miller Puckette wrote:

I believe z~ is just rzero~ 0.

no.
both of them are equivalent to [z~ 1]

you could also argue that [f] is just the same as [0(
:-)

oups, yes ofcorse z~ 1.

the output of 1 sample with rzero~ 0, z~ 1 and biquad~ 0 0 0 1 seems to
be slightly different. if one wants to be fuzzy about that :) maybe ome
rounding problem?


no, i don't see any rounding errors...


and now i even couldn't do the delwrite/read with the subpatch :( :(


it's generally a good idea to tell [delwrite~] how much space it should
allocate for the delayline. e.g. [delwrite~ abcd 1000] helped a lot...


and [rzero~ 0] is not the same as [z~ 1].


the output of [z~ 1] is y[n]=x[n-1]
according to [rzero~]s help-patch it does the following:

y[n]=x[n]-a[n]*x[n-1]
since you set a[n] to "0", you just get y[n]=x[n] :-(

to get [z~ 1], do something like

|
+--+
|  |
|  [rzero~ 1]
|  |
[-~]
|



thanks iohannes. it looks good now.




#N canvas 366 22 837 595 10;
#X obj -139 267 vline~;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-biquad 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 7 434 graph;
#X msg -75 354 bang;
#X floatatom -131 100 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -1 342 biquad~ 0 0 0 1;
#X obj 175 349 z~ 1;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-z 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 173 430 graph;
#X obj 9 396 tabwrite~ display-biquad;
#X obj 174 393 tabwrite~ display-z;
#X text 161 111 click here;
#X obj 315 393 tabwrite~ display-rzero;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-rzero 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 317 432 graph;
#X msg -10 218 0 \, 0.5 0 0.022 \, 0 0 0.044;
#X msg 165 136 \; pd dsp 1;
#X msg -143 29 1000;
#X obj -97 148 * 2;
#X floatatom -82 169 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -140 171 pack f f;
#X obj -142 124 t a a;
#X msg -140 217 0 \, 0.5 0 \$1 \, 0 0 \$2;
#X obj -85 51 samplerate~;
#X floatatom -49 78 7 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -142 52 t a b;
#X obj -143 76 / 44100;
#X msg 124 112 bang;
#X obj -140 195 t a b;
#X text -108 29 or here;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-org 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore -142 430 graph;
#X obj -144 391 tabwrite~ display-org;
#X obj -126 312 dirac~;
#N canvas 504 22 450 300 write~ 0;
#X obj 39 234 outlet~;
#X obj 20 32 inlet~;
#X obj 37 97 delwrite~ asdf 10;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X restore 472 341 pd write~;
#N canvas 206 409 450 300 read~ 0;
#X obj 17 33 inlet~;
#X obj 26 156 outlet~;
#X obj 36 125 delread~ asdf;
#X floatatom 150 119 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 175 84 samplerate~;
#X floatatom 227 115 7 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 127 63 t a b;
#X obj 142 23 loadbang;
#X obj 138 95 /;
#X msg 134 43 1000;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 8 1;
#X connect 6 0 8 0;
#X connect 6 1 4 0;
#X connect 7 0 9 0;
#X connect 8 0 3 0;
#X connect 8 0 2 0;
#X connect 9 0 6 0;
#X restore 472 367 pd read~;
#X obj 466 393 tabwrite~ display-del;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-del 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 454 433 graph;
#X text 467 327 i don't know whats wrong here;
#X obj 329 339 rzero~ 1;
#X obj 315 360 -~;
#X connect 0 0 4 0;
#X connect 0 0 5 0;
#X connect 0 0 28 0;
#X connect 0 0 30 0;
#X connect 0 0 35 0;
#X connect 0 0 36 0;
#X connect 2 0 7 0;
#X connect 2 0 8 0;
#X connect 2 0 10 0;
#X connect 2 0 28 0;
#X connect 2 0 32 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 0;
#X connect 5 0 8 0;
#X connect 12 0 0 0;
#X connect 14 0 22 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 15 0 17 1;
#X connect 17 0 25 0;
#X connect 18 0 17 0;
#X connect 18 1 15 0;
#X connect 19 0 0 0;
#X connect 20 0 21 0;
#X connect 20 0 23 1;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 22 1 20 0;
#X connect 23 0 3 0;
#X connect 23 0 18 0;
#X connect 24 0 2 0;
#X connect 24 0 12 0;
#X connect 25 0 19 0;
#X connect 25 1 2 0;
#X connect 30 0 31 0;
#X connect 31 0 32 0;
#X connect 35 0 36 1;
#X connect 36 0 10 0;
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[PD] I'm stuck in a corner, please help! RE: [delta~] object was: Re: Cyclone in vanilla?

[Enrique Erne]

IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Enrique Erne wrote:

or [biquad~ 0 0 0 1]


Miller Puckette wrote:

I believe z~ is just rzero~ 0.


no.
both of them are equivalent to [z~ 1]

you could also argue that [f] is just the same as [0(
:-)


oups, yes ofcorse z~ 1.

the output of 1 sample with rzero~ 0, z~ 1 and biquad~ 0 0 0 1 seems to 
be slightly different. if one wants to be fuzzy about that :) maybe ome 
rounding problem?


this is off the subject. it would have been more suitable in "I'm stuck 
in a corner, please help! RE: [delta~] object" ... therefore i'll change 
the subject.


and now i even couldn't do the delwrite/read with the subpatch :( :(

eni


#N canvas 366 22 837 595 10;
#X obj -139 267 vline~;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-biquad 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 7 434 graph;
#X msg -75 354 bang;
#X floatatom -131 100 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -1 342 biquad~ 0 0 0 1;
#X obj 175 349 z~ 1;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-z 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 173 430 graph;
#X obj 9 396 tabwrite~ display-biquad;
#X obj 174 393 tabwrite~ display-z;
#X text 161 111 click here;
#X obj 315 393 tabwrite~ display-rzero;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-rzero 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 317 432 graph;
#X msg -10 218 0 \, 0.5 0 0.022 \, 0 0 0.044;
#X msg 165 136 \; pd dsp 1;
#X msg -143 29 1000;
#X obj -97 148 * 2;
#X floatatom -82 169 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -140 171 pack f f;
#X obj -142 124 t a a;
#X msg -140 217 0 \, 0.5 0 \$1 \, 0 0 \$2;
#X obj -85 51 samplerate~;
#X floatatom -49 78 7 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj -142 52 t a b;
#X obj -143 76 / 44100;
#X msg 124 112 bang;
#X obj -140 195 t a b;
#X text -108 29 or here;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-org 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore -142 430 graph;
#X obj -144 391 tabwrite~ display-org;
#X obj 310 350 rzero~ 0;
#X obj -126 312 dirac~;
#N canvas 504 22 450 300 write~ 0;
#X obj 39 234 outlet~;
#X obj 20 32 inlet~;
#X obj 37 97 delwrite~ asdf;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X restore 472 341 pd write~;
#N canvas 206 409 450 300 read~ 1;
#X obj 17 33 inlet~;
#X obj 26 156 outlet~;
#X obj 36 125 delread~ asdf;
#X floatatom 150 119 12 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 175 84 samplerate~;
#X floatatom 227 115 7 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 127 63 t a b;
#X obj 142 23 loadbang;
#X obj 138 95 /;
#X msg 134 43 1000;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 8 1;
#X connect 6 0 8 0;
#X connect 6 1 4 0;
#X connect 7 0 9 0;
#X connect 8 0 3 0;
#X connect 8 0 2 0;
#X connect 9 0 6 0;
#X restore 472 367 pd read~;
#X obj 466 393 tabwrite~ display-del;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array display-del 10 float 2;
#X coords 0 1 10 -1 100 100 1;
#X restore 454 433 graph;
#X text 467 327 i don't know whats wrong here;
#X connect 0 0 4 0;
#X connect 0 0 5 0;
#X connect 0 0 28 0;
#X connect 0 0 29 0;
#X connect 0 0 31 0;
#X connect 2 0 7 0;
#X connect 2 0 8 0;
#X connect 2 0 10 0;
#X connect 2 0 28 0;
#X connect 2 0 33 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 0;
#X connect 5 0 8 0;
#X connect 12 0 0 0;
#X connect 14 0 22 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 15 0 17 1;
#X connect 17 0 25 0;
#X connect 18 0 17 0;
#X connect 18 1 15 0;
#X connect 19 0 0 0;
#X connect 20 0 21 0;
#X connect 20 0 23 1;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 22 1 20 0;
#X connect 23 0 3 0;
#X connect 23 0 18 0;
#X connect 24 0 2 0;
#X connect 24 0 12 0;
#X connect 25 0 19 0;
#X connect 25 1 2 0;
#X connect 29 0 10 0;
#X connect 31 0 32 0;
#X connect 32 0 33 0;
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Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?

[Enrique Erne]

or [biquad~ 0 0 0 1]

eni



Miller Puckette wrote:
> I believe z~ is just rzero~ 0.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:24:34AM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>> Hallo,
>> Matt Barber hat gesagt: // Matt Barber wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, for those of us who insist on vanilla and do everything with
>>> expr/expr~/fexpr~ or abstractions, is it possible to implement [z~] in
>>> fexpr~ for a delay larger than its vector size?  You could do it with
>>> an abstraction using [delwrite~] and [delread~], setting the [block~]
>>> to 1, and then set the delay as a ratio to the [samplerate~] -- the
>>> difficulty in making it work correctly here is setting the size of the
>>> [delwrite~] efficiently (this could maybe be done with a loadbang
>>> routine that would send a message to a subpatch in the abstraction
>>> instance to add and connect a delwrite~ with the proper delay
>>> allocation...).
>> You don't need to set the block~-size to 1, and personally I would
>> just make the delwrite~ "big enough". It's cheap to store things in a
>> delay. But anyway, attached is a z~-clone with delwrite~/delread~ that
>> uses a helper abstraction created dynamically.
>>
>> Ciao
>> -- 
>>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Associative list

[Enrique Erne]

Roman Haefeli wrote:

> yo, sorry to drop in. let me just add a little note about the state
> saving of netpd: it turned out, that it was a mistake to cover both
> tasks, collecting/setting states and reading/writing data from/to files,
> in the same system. some people got frustrated, because this system
> didn't allow them to save their presets in the way/format they wanted.
> we decided to redo all the state saving stuff and just skip file IO
> handling part, so that people can choose themselves, what they are going
> to do with this data. for flexibility's sake, i think the route that
> SSSAD is following totally makes sense, at least in my opinion. 


hi

i am sorry for the inconvenience with the netpd's state saving manager.
i wrote 2 systems that should have made life easier when dealing with
presets in netpd.

the first was an abstraction that creates names for the netpd-x to load
and save presets. a feature is that it can save all instruments, then it 
makes 1 preset for each instrument.

later i wanted to optimize the system in order to store all data in 1
single preset. also i didn't like that each abstraction carried it's own
gui, that made the abstraction very big (40kb)

while i implemented all my desired features into p-admin it happend that 
the new presets were not compatible with the old one's. instead of 
 it was now 

it is still possible to use both ways by replacing an abstraction and 
adjusting the version tag. but that's really not userfriendly. after 
some talk we decided to downgrade back to the first approach.

the plan at the moment is that one day we use the OSC format. so we 
could work in a very flexible way with the data. i wonder if people have 
good experience with OSC or are there any problem one should be aware of?
compatibility, bugs, etc?

so actually i just wanted to say i'm sorry if somebody got frustrated 
because of the preset-manager in netpd :)

here some thinking:

http://www.netpd.org/FutureOfStateSaving

http://www.netpd.org/NextSteps


eni








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[PD] envelope vadsr2

[Enrique Erne]

hi all

i have a little envelope to share. it should be click-free when it gets 
re-triggered before the envelope finished. maybe this has already been done?


when it gets triggered it measures the actual value with snapshot~ and 
starts from the current value. this way it does not automatically begin 
with 0.


comments welcome.

cheers eni
#N canvas 346 22 766 505 10;
#X obj 216 455 switch~;
#X obj 27 13 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1 1 1
;
#X obj 27 211 metro 1451.25;
#X floatatom 281 190 5 0 0 0 attack - -;
#X floatatom 331 220 5 0 0 0 decay - -;
#X floatatom 381 250 5 0 0 0 sustain - -;
#X floatatom 431 280 5 0 0 0 release - -;
#X obj 93 455 tabwrite~ vadsr;
#N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array vadsr 11000 float 0;
#X coords 0 1 10999 0 500 100 1;
#X restore 176 25 graph;
#X obj 265 436 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1 1
1;
#X obj 393 164 loadbang;
#X msg 431 249 261;
#X floatatom 511 346 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X msg 511 316 set 11025;
#X msg 511 376 \; vadsr resize \$1;
#X obj 123 375 pack 51 87 31 261;
#X obj 123 345 f 51;
#X obj 102 179 * 64;
#X obj 102 149 / 44.1;
#X msg 102 119 1000;
#X floatatom 110 244 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X msg 281 159 31;
#X obj 77 264 del 80;
#X msg 331 187 35;
#X msg 381 219 65;
#X obj 123 425 vadsr2 3 4 90 16;
#X text 47 12 a) start triggering;
#X text 71 101 blockligned;
#X text 425 193 b) play with the adsr parameter;
#X text 462 410 c) adjust tablesize to adsr duration for better visualization
;
#X text 267 454 optional switch to save cpu;
#X text 90 280 retriggering is clickfree;
#X text 130 402 attack(ms) decay(ms) sustain(%) release(ms);
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 7 0;
#X connect 2 0 16 0;
#X connect 2 0 22 0;
#X connect 3 0 16 1;
#X connect 4 0 15 1;
#X connect 5 0 15 2;
#X connect 6 0 15 3;
#X connect 10 0 21 0;
#X connect 10 0 23 0;
#X connect 10 0 24 0;
#X connect 10 0 11 0;
#X connect 10 0 13 0;
#X connect 10 0 19 0;
#X connect 11 0 6 0;
#X connect 12 0 14 0;
#X connect 13 0 12 0;
#X connect 15 0 25 0;
#X connect 16 0 15 0;
#X connect 17 0 2 1;
#X connect 18 0 17 0;
#X connect 19 0 18 0;
#X connect 20 0 22 1;
#X connect 21 0 3 0;
#X connect 23 0 4 0;
#X connect 24 0 5 0;
#X connect 25 0 7 0;
#X connect 25 1 0 0;
#X connect 25 1 9 0;
#N canvas 18 22 535 739 10;
#X obj 147 545 vline~;
#X obj 29 485 vline~;
#X obj 147 575 dbtorms~;
#X obj 29 515 dbtorms~;
#X obj 13 575 -~;
#X obj 13 545 sig~ 1;
#X obj 152 232 rmstodb;
#X obj 86 172 max 0.1;
#X obj 333 186 max 0.1;
#X obj 145 279 t b f;
#X obj 29 22 inlet;
#X obj 84 697 outlet~;
#X obj 375 622 outlet;
#X obj 375 562 f 1;
#X obj 415 562 f 0;
#X obj 415 532 del 500;
#X msg 415 502 stop;
#X obj 376 472 t b b b;
#X text 39 379 attack decay sustain hold release;
#X obj 29 405 t a a b;
#X obj 152 202 * 0.01;
#X obj 152 172 clip 0 100;
#X obj 464 443 t b f;
#X obj 454 472 + 16;
#X obj 125 309 + 4;
#X obj 29 112 unpack f f f f;
#X obj 29 202 t a a;
#X text 79 22 attack(ms) decay(ms) sustain(%) release(ms);
#X obj 29 355 pack f f f f f;
#X obj 49 82 list append \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4;
#X obj 49 52 loadbang;
#X obj 375 592 change 0;
#X obj 29 172 max 0;
#X msg 29 455 60 \$1 0 \, 100 0 \$1;
#X obj 147 485 t a b;
#X msg 147 515 0 \, 100 0 \$1 \, \$3 \$2 \$1 \, 0 \$5 \$4;
#X obj 214 613 snapshot~;
#X obj 214 673 -;
#X obj 214 703 rmstodb;
#X msg 214 643 1 \$1;
#X msg 397 22 version 2.0.0;
#X connect 0 0 2 0;
#X connect 1 0 3 0;
#X connect 2 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 36 0;
#X connect 3 0 4 1;
#X connect 4 0 11 0;
#X connect 4 0 36 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 28 2;
#X connect 7 0 9 0;
#X connect 7 0 28 1;
#X connect 8 0 22 0;
#X connect 8 0 28 4;
#X connect 9 0 24 0;
#X connect 9 1 24 1;
#X connect 10 0 25 0;
#X connect 13 0 31 0;
#X connect 14 0 31 0;
#X connect 15 0 14 0;
#X connect 16 0 15 0;
#X connect 17 0 15 0;
#X connect 17 1 13 0;
#X connect 17 2 16 0;
#X connect 19 0 33 0;
#X connect 19 1 34 0;
#X connect 19 2 17 0;
#X connect 20 0 6 0;
#X connect 21 0 20 0;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 22 1 23 1;
#X connect 23 0 15 1;
#X connect 24 0 23 0;
#X connect 24 0 28 3;
#X connect 25 0 32 0;
#X connect 25 1 7 0;
#X connect 25 2 21 0;
#X connect 25 3 8 0;
#X connect 26 0 28 0;
#X connect 26 1 24 0;
#X connect 28 0 19 0;
#X connect 29 0 25 0;
#X connect 30 0 29 0;
#X connect 31 0 12 0;
#X connect 32 0 26 0;
#X connect 33 0 1 0;
#X connect 34 0 35 0;
#X connect 34 1 36 0;
#X connect 35 0 0 0;
#X connect 36 0 39 0;
#X connect 37 0 38 0;
#X connect 38 0 1 0;
#X connect 39 0 37 0;
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Re: [PD] Spreading values and objects in windows version of pd-extended.

[Enrique Erne]

Vadim Smahtin wrote:
> Big thx for help, but can any1 send me some examples of "repeat" and
> "multi gemhead"? I found some in archive, but they have *bin extension
> and don't work on my windows desktop.
> Best regards, Vadim.

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just download the attachment.bin and rename it to its original name. 
Name: cube-of-cubes-no-repeat.pd

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Re: [PD] Dynamic Object Connections through OSC

[Enrique Erne]

Jonny Martyr wrote:
Hi there, I'm new to this mailing list and I have a question 
regarding dynamically connecting objects together using OSC 
commands. I would appreciate any help that anyone can provide.
 
Essentially I am building a Flash application in which the 
user can connect together different blocks to build synths, 
much like a simplified version of PD. I am able to pass messages 
between Flash and PD using OSC, and so can dynamically create 
objects and edit their parameters from Flash. However, I do not 
know how to create the connections between the various objects 
in PD without actually drawing them manually.
 
Does anyone know of a way around this? Possibly using send 
and receive commands?



Hi Jonny

i have good experience with dynamically created and chained abstraction 
that talk to each other. im using [send], [receive], [send~], [receive~] 
inside the abstractions. i.e. a [notes] abstraction triggers [waveform~] 
and [envelope~] the output goes down to a [delay~] abstraction and so on.


you could receive the commands from flash and use them to dynamically 
create abstractions. give each abstraction an ID as argument. use 
something like:


[addmorefunk id-12]

and inside:

[r $1-r]
|
[r~ dummy-send]
|
[pd addfunk]
|
[s~ $1-s]

now you can tell your abstraction where to listen with the setable 
receive~ i.e. [;id-12-r set id-11-s( would connect/listen to the last 
created abstraction. a [s~ dummy-send] should prevent from

error: receive~ no matching send

see how abstractions can be created dynamically Help/mauals/pd-msg/ or 
[dyn~] in pd-extended. don't forget to send a [loadbang band( to the abs 
after creation. if you need to remove abstractions you have to keep each 
created abs in it's own subpatch to clear it later. see attached patch.


good luck eni


#N canvas 386 22 600 572 10;
#N canvas 17 28 355 263 sub 0;
#X restore 43 42 pd sub;
#X msg 43 452 \; pd-sub clear;
#X msg 42 282 \; pd-sub loadbang;
#X floatatom 43 117 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 75 174 * 20;
#X obj 43 134 t f f f;
#X obj 43 154 makefilename pd-%d-subsub;
#X obj 43 194 pack s f f;
#X msg 43 214 \; pd-sub obj 10 \$2 pd \$3-subsub \; \$1 obj 10 10 foo
\$3;
#X obj 43 385 makefilename pd-%d-subsub;
#X msg 43 407 \; \$1 clear;
#X floatatom 43 366 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X text 43 15 add and remove abstractions;
#X msg 40 91 1;
#X msg 80 91 2;
#X msg 116 91 3;
#X text 168 91 a) create some subsubpatches and abstractions;
#X text 166 286 b) if your abstractions use loadbang you have to do
that manually;
#X msg 40 341 1;
#X msg 80 341 2;
#X msg 116 341 3;
#X text 161 458 (clear pd-sub before saving this patch);
#X text 161 340 c) clear subsubpatch where your abstractions are;
#X text 47 514 d) if your abstraction have a gui inside that you want
to vis sepparately you use either namecanvas or put the gui in an subpatch
[pd \$1-something] and use an arguemnt as id to refenrence the subpatch
;
#X connect 3 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 1;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 1 4 0;
#X connect 5 2 7 2;
#X connect 6 0 7 0;
#X connect 7 0 8 0;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 11 0 9 0;
#X connect 13 0 3 0;
#X connect 14 0 3 0;
#X connect 15 0 3 0;
#X connect 18 0 11 0;
#X connect 19 0 11 0;
#X connect 20 0 11 0;
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