Re: [PHP-DB] Re: PostgreSQL versus MySQL
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Bob Hall wrote: MySQL is providing an SQL frontend to a bunch of tables and indices, that is it ... it is up to the programmer to handle the "managing of data" part where it revolves around being relational ... I've developed database apps in which the data was inserted in batches, which meant that transactions were unnecessary. On the other hand, the apps needed an RDBMS to handle normalized tables. Okay, so you start the insert, and one of the records in the batch failed to insert ... then what? You manually rollback the other ones? A "transaction" is effectively a batch ... if one of the batch fails, either the programmer has to manually remember and roll everything back, or you let the database itself handle it .. Futhermore, some datawarehousing and web projects involve relational databases that are inserted and updated in batches at night, making transactions unnecessary. See above ... I have an application that loads ACT! data into a database every night ... each contact in the system has something like 20-30 fields associated with them ... if, for some reason, *one* of those fields fail to insert properly, that contact is invalid, and the transaction that its wrap'd in automatically rolls back everything I've done since the start of the transaction, so that there is no record of that failed contact except in my error log file ... no "incomplete" data, no stray data ... batch or interactive doesn't matter ... its the data integrity that is maintained by using transactions that is key ... I'm not trying to claim that MySQL can handle all types of db applications. MySQL is a niche product that was never designed to handle certain types of applications. My point is that whether a DBMS is relational depends on the structure of the data it deals with. Whether it needs to support transaction depends on the environment it operates in. I think that your point is that in an OLTP environment, lack of transaction support screws up the data to the point that the database becomes useless. I agree, but not all RDBMSs operate in an OLTP environment. No, my point is that in any environment that needs the features of being "relational" (data spread across multiple tables, link'd together), IMHO, transactions are required in order to maintain data integrity *unless* the programmer himself wants to take it upon himself to maintain this data integrity in the application layer ... ... if data in table C requires that the data saved to table B was stored, then if table B fails, the transaction should fail and the changes to table A should be reversed automatically ... *shrug* By extension, if the data to table C fails for whatever reason, the data put to Tables A and B should be automatically reversed ... -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DB] Re: PostgreSQL versus MySQL
On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Bob Hall wrote: Doug, You've posted your usual good sense, combined with one statement I strongly disagree with. One of these products is a relational database management system. The other is a quasi-SQL-like-front-end-to-systems-of-indexed-files that has never concerned itself with things like standards conformance. The implication is that MySQL is not an RDBMS. The only attempt I know of to define an RDBMS was Codd's, and no DBMS has ever met the criteria he published in a paper in the late 80s (1986?). Even though Oracle doesn't meet the criteria of the best known definition (only definition?) of an RDBMS, we all seem to agree that Oracle is an RDBMS. An RDBMS is a DBMS designed to manage a relational database, and a database is relational because it stores data in linked, normalized tables. The only thing I question in this is that without transaction support, what exactly is MySQL "managing"? MySQL is providing an SQL frontend to a bunch of tables and indices, that is it ... it is up to the programmer to handle the "managing of data" part where it revolves around being relational ... Also, note, that even today, MySQL does not handle transactions, Berkeley DB does, and its purely optional, and per table. So, effectively, it has "transactional tables", its not a "transactional system" ... if you didn't define a table for transactions when you created it, you just created your weak link ... again, its not MySQL that manages the system, its the programmer who has to do it ... *shrug* -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DB] Re: PostgreSQL versus MySQL
As for a full comparison between the two, I think the bottom line is that MySQL is slightly more light-weight, but easier to use and faster than PostgreSQL. So if you're looking for a database for a relatively noncritical web application, I'd say go with MySQL, especially since that's what you already have experience with. tim perdue recently negated this whole 'speed' argument with the Sourceforge migration ... if you are planning on having a low-hit-rate web site, go with MySQL, but as soon as you get into concurrent users, MySQL's performance drops like a rock ... See the numbers that Tim ran to compare the two: http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim20001112.php3 One of the upcoming features in MySQL I'm really looking forward to is query caching, which is a great feature for web applications. Something that PostgreSQL has always done ... glad they are starting to catch up ... -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DB] PostgreSQL versus MySQL
Check out:
http://openacs.org/philosophy/why-not-mysql.html
and:
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim20001112.php3
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Matt Braynard wrote:
Can someone outline the differences between the two? I am partial to MySQL
from experience but want to get a good view of why one is better than the
other.
Also, I've heard that you will lose data with MySQL if a system failure
should occur.
Thanks.
Matt
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[PHP-DB] Re: [PHP] Problem getting PostgreSQL to compile
On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, K Old wrote:
Yes, I've checked phpinfo() and not it is not compiled in. That is the
problem. I have recompiled PHP with pgsql support and there is some
problem. I'm not sure why it isn't compiling it in. I've tried everything
I knowthe installation goes fine...no error messages, everything seems
ok.
Any ideas?
when you run configure, the status messages that are output, do they list
pgsql as being found? even with --with-pgsql enabled, if it can't find
the libraries or header files, it will re-disable it again ...
From: The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: K Old [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP] Problem getting PostgreSQL to compile
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:30:11 -0400 (AST)
have you checked phpinfo() to make sure that pgsql support is actually
compiled in? if so, any errors on connection, or just silently fails?
On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, K Old wrote:
Hello,
I'm running RH 7 and Apache. I have the latest version of PostgreSQL
and it
is installed and running correctly. I have installed PHP with the
--with-pgsql and it seems to install everything needed, but when I try
to
use pg_connect() it fails to connect. Any ideas what I can do?
Thanks,
Kevin
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