Re: [Protux-devel] about Java migration, Remon's kickout and fork
how to react to Luciano's first announcement and request of commentswithout starting a war. In the meantime it has already started. war ? what war dude ? :-)I really think my breakfast is more important than getting into a war thru the web, specially on a project I founded and which is supposed to be a source of pleasure for me. environment i like, which people with whom it is fun to work with. The fun of developing something i will use myself, the fun of learning newinteresting stuff while working on it. Now the fun part seems to have gone.I agree on that point. Unfortunately, fun is dependent on what is the cool toy of the moment. For me.. the cool toy is Java. With all the respect I have for you guys on the project, since I founded the project, I decided to keep my original intention : having fun. Just like you. I cannot be blamed because I change some rules. Thats why I suggest to fork the project. This "streamline" of the project is the place, in first place, for my fun. I haven't seen an official statement from Luciano that the Java switch is definitively decided... but it looks a lot like it. I'm not a Javaguy... i'm mainly a C guy... but i like a lot C++ too. I don't likeIDEs... so for the moment i could not imagine myself developing Javacode using eclipse. But perhaps i would like it... who knows ? I just don't want to be forced to use a specific IDE to do my work on a OpenSource Project. I love Freedom... as in speak. But this includes alsothe freedom to choose my weapons, my editor to code. What you talking about.. ? you can code in java using emacraps if you want.. **I** plan to use eclipse, but you just dont need it.. I never said that eclipse would be a requirement... did I ? Also i can't see any justification in this switch. I'm not sure a widerdeveloper base will be found than now. Me neither.. I talked about potential developers base... potential == not sure And even if yes, it will take alot of time to get back to the point Protux is now. yeah ! and that will be so fun to work on reaching that point.. This quest of productivity which Luciano seems to strive at is what itry to avoid working on Protux. Of course i want a fully functionalProtux. But i already spend most of my time at work programing in orderto meet the deadlines. I want the programing which i do in my free time to be fun. And usually i'm much more productive when i'm having fun thanwhen i'm forced to do something.well.. essentially, we have the same thoughts. Nobody is guilty about one fact : in a last confrontation of priority on who has more "rights" to have fun on the project, I honest think I have the biggest priority. My motivations are a combination of rational perspectives of what java can do for the project and the fact that for me, coding in java is more fun, nowadays, than coding in C++/qt. I could give up on many "rational points".. but I cannot giveup on points regarding my original pleasure to create the project. But these are not the main reasons why i'm sad about what happens now. Kicking someone out of a project is no fun. Having an Open Sourceproject forking is no fun. We have already not many developers.Separating them on two projects is not how we will speed up development. Remon offended me. I will not expose him giving details, but I dont have any obbligation to keep in the project somebody which I invited, and then turned out to be somebody unpleasent for me in the project. There was a time long ago i almost got Luciano angry when i mentionedthe possibility to have Protux running on other (proprietary) operating systems like Solaris and Irix... These times seems far away... nowrunning Protux will force users to have proprietary code. I'm notagainst proprietary things, sometimes they are necessary. But thereseems to be changes in the heart of the project. Also i don't like software patents.You mean the SUN Java VM ? yes.. it will be quite attached to it.. thats a very controversial point that I myself agrreed on Remon. My expectation is that in case of the SUN java VM become a non-free plataform, we make all necessary adjustments to make the project work upon a free VM. Until there, we take benefits on the SUN Vm. There is just one quote about the last thread on the mailing list i want to comment.Luciano wrote:| It is not too much to remember that the names Mustux, JMB, Protux are| not allowed to be used in another forked project.While i can understand that Luciano doesn't want the forked project to be called something like Mustux or Protux (but i hope a mention of thesetwo projects is still allowed if not mandatory), i have difficulties toaccept it with JMB. JMB is a UI concept, implemented by Mustux. Of course it has beenoriginally created for Mustux by Luciano and his team, but JMB is aconcept which can be used in many more places. Calling any other JMBimplementation (the UI concept, not the library) other than JMB will just be more confusion and will serve neither the original nor theforked proj
[Protux-devel] about Java migration, Remon's kickout and fork
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Reading through my mailbox has not been much fun over the last few weeks. Sorry for not having reacted earlier, but due to work and military obligations i'm just completely lacking of time. And also i didn't know how to react to Luciano's first announcement and request of comments without starting a war. In the meantime it has already started. There was a lot i wanted to comment about Luciano's "perceptions" about why to migrate. But i think i'll rather keep them for me now. In the last few years i had almost no time to work on Protux. I didn't even have much time to use it. But each time i used it i was missing small features, which i just hoped to have time to implement soon. I still didn't have this time yet. But i like Protux. I like to use it, and i like to develop on it. I was looking forward for this winter/spring where i should have been able to work again some more on Protux. Now i don't know what will happen then. There are other free tools available out there which do what i usually need. Necessity i not the reason i started working on Protux. Main reason is Fun. The fun of developing a project i like, i a language and environment i like, which people with whom it is fun to work with. The fun of developing something i will use myself, the fun of learning new interesting stuff while working on it. Now the fun part seems to have gone. I haven't seen an official statement from Luciano that the Java switch is definitively decided... but it looks a lot like it. I'm not a Java guy... i'm mainly a C guy... but i like a lot C++ too. I don't like IDEs... so for the moment i could not imagine myself developing Java code using eclipse. But perhaps i would like it... who knows ? I just don't want to be forced to use a specific IDE to do my work on a Open Source Project. I love Freedom... as in speak. But this includes also the freedom to choose my weapons, my editor to code. Also i can't see any justification in this switch. I'm not sure a wider developer base will be found than now. And even if yes, it will take a lot of time to get back to the point Protux is now. This quest of productivity which Luciano seems to strive at is what i try to avoid working on Protux. Of course i want a fully functional Protux. But i already spend most of my time at work programing in order to meet the deadlines. I want the programing which i do in my free time to be fun. And usually i'm much more productive when i'm having fun than when i'm forced to do something. But these are not the main reasons why i'm sad about what happens now. Kicking someone out of a project is no fun. Having an Open Source project forking is no fun. We have already not many developers. Separating them on two projects is not how we will speed up development. There was a time long ago i almost got Luciano angry when i mentioned the possibility to have Protux running on other (proprietary) operating systems like Solaris and Irix... These times seems far away... now running Protux will force users to have proprietary code. I'm not against proprietary things, sometimes they are necessary. But there seems to be changes in the heart of the project. Also i don't like software patents. There is just one quote about the last thread on the mailing list i want to comment. Luciano wrote: | It is not too much to remember that the names Mustux, JMB, Protux are | not allowed to be used in another forked project. While i can understand that Luciano doesn't want the forked project to be called something like Mustux or Protux (but i hope a mention of these two projects is still allowed if not mandatory), i have difficulties to accept it with JMB. JMB is a UI concept, implemented by Mustux. Of course it has been originally created for Mustux by Luciano and his team, but JMB is a concept which can be used in many more places. Calling any other JMB implementation (the UI concept, not the library) other than JMB will just be more confusion and will serve neither the original nor the forked project. This is like if in M$ Word you call an UI concept "drag'n'drop" but in OpenOffice you are not allowed to use the same term for the same UI concept/operation. Why would a word processor not be able to be advertised as "implementing Mustux' revolutionary JMB UI concept" ? Why would an Audio Editor/Recorder not be allowed to do the same ? Just because historically they had a common code base ? And how long and Protux will be a proprietary commercial application and the Protux holding will own the JMB patent ? I hope never but there begins to be trends i don't like too much. I'm still not decided about what my future participation will be as the Java switch decision has not been officially announced yet. And sorry i don't consider linking my participation on this decision as unpolite. To spend a few month to integrate a new development environment and then lot more time of porting everything is a lot of work. In the sam
