RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum 
What do the specs say you're supposed to use in place of c-clamps?

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606

> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum 
> On Behalf Of Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:52 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us
> Subject: C-Clamp Hangers
>
> Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use
> C-Clamps for your hanger attachments?
>
>
>
> I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently.
>
>
>
> Jerry Van Kolken
>
> Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
>
> 2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
>
> Oceanside, CA 92058
>
> (760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730
>
>
>



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Re: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
I think Ryan is onto the issue.  If it is in the specification, request
clarification from the engineer.  A large percentage of time, the engineer
is not clear enough when the specification is written.

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
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On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:30 PM Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Ryan,
> That was my thinking. We always us the restraining straps  on our hanger
> assemblies.
>
> Mike,
> The products I'm using are listed. This is a requirement from the client
> side.
>
>
>
> Jerry Van Kolken
> Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
> 2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
> Oceanside, CA 92058
> (760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum  On
> Behalf Of Hinson, Ryan via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:11 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Hinson, Ryan 
> Subject: RE: C-Clamp Hangers
>
> Hanger attachments are being confused with bracing attachments.
> -   NFPA 13 (2019) Section 18.5.11.10 explicitly DOES NOT allow
> C-clamps
> used for seismic bracing structural attachments with or without
> restraining straps unless specifically listed for such use.
> -   Section 18.7.1 allows their use for hangers in seismically active
> areas when a restraining strap is included.
> -   Chapter 17 explicitly DOES allow listed use of c-clamps for hangers
> alone.
>
> See commentary for further discussion and pictures depicting their allowed
> hanger usage.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET**  \  Burns & McDonnell Senior Fire Protection
> Engineer O 952-656-3662 \  M 763-688-4045 \  F 952-229-2923
> rhin...@burnsmcd.com  \  burnsmcd.com
> 8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500  \  Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 55437
> *Registered in: LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems
> Layout
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum  On
> Behalf Of Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:52 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us
> Subject: C-Clamp Hangers
>
> Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use C-Clamps
> for your hanger attachments?
>
>
>
> I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently.
>
>
>
> Jerry Van Kolken
>
> Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
>
> 2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
>
> Oceanside, CA 92058
>
> (760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730
>
>
>
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RE: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum 
Ryan,
That was my thinking. We always us the restraining straps  on our hanger
assemblies.

Mike, 
The products I'm using are listed. This is a requirement from the client
side.



Jerry Van Kolken
Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
Oceanside, CA 92058
(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On
Behalf Of Hinson, Ryan via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:11 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Hinson, Ryan 
Subject: RE: C-Clamp Hangers

Hanger attachments are being confused with bracing attachments.  
-   NFPA 13 (2019) Section 18.5.11.10 explicitly DOES NOT allow C-clamps
used for seismic bracing structural attachments with or without
restraining straps unless specifically listed for such use. 
-   Section 18.7.1 allows their use for hangers in seismically active
areas when a restraining strap is included.  
-   Chapter 17 explicitly DOES allow listed use of c-clamps for hangers
alone.  

See commentary for further discussion and pictures depicting their allowed
hanger usage.

Hope this helps,

Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET**  \  Burns & McDonnell Senior Fire Protection
Engineer O 952-656-3662 \  M 763-688-4045 \  F 952-229-2923
rhin...@burnsmcd.com  \  burnsmcd.com
8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500  \  Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 55437
*Registered in: LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems
Layout



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On
Behalf Of Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:52 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us
Subject: C-Clamp Hangers

Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use C-Clamps
for your hanger attachments? 

 

I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently. 

 

Jerry Van Kolken

Millennium Fire Protection Corp.

2950 San Luis Rey Rd.

Oceanside, CA 92058

(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730

 

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Re: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum 
Possibly an outdated specification.

I have not heard of any issues with properly installed listed C-clamps.

Thanks,
John

John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org



   

*Our members are at the heart of everything we do.*

*AFSA Summer Sale!*

For a limited time only, AFSA is offering members up to 50% off its
on-demand recorded webinars! Featuring the most sought-after thought
leaders, AFSA On-Demand offers a superior learning experience with ability
to earn CEU and CPD credits anytime, anywhere. Visit
http://www.firesprinkler.org/ondemand to learn more.


On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:50 PM Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use C-Clamps
> for your hanger attachments?
>
>
>
> I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently.
>
>
>
> Jerry Van Kolken
>
> Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
>
> 2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
>
> Oceanside, CA 92058
>
> (760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730
>
>
>
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>
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RE: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread Hinson, Ryan via Sprinklerforum 
Hanger attachments are being confused with bracing attachments.  
-   NFPA 13 (2019) Section 18.5.11.10 explicitly DOES NOT allow C-clamps 
used for seismic bracing structural attachments with orwithout restraining 
straps unless specifically listed for such use. 
-   Section 18.7.1 allows their use for hangers in seismically active areas 
when a restraining strap is included.  
-   Chapter 17 explicitly DOES allow listed use of c-clamps for hangers 
alone.  

See commentary for further discussion and pictures depicting their allowed 
hanger usage.

Hope this helps,

Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET**  \  Burns & McDonnell
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
O 952-656-3662 \  M 763-688-4045 \  F 952-229-2923
rhin...@burnsmcd.com  \  burnsmcd.com
8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500  \  Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 55437
*Registered in: LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT
**NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:52 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us
Subject: C-Clamp Hangers

Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use C-Clamps for 
your hanger attachments? 

 

I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently. 

 

Jerry Van Kolken

Millennium Fire Protection Corp.

2950 San Luis Rey Rd.

Oceanside, CA 92058

(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730

 

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Re: C-Clamp Hangers

2020-08-26 Thread Mike Hairfield via Sprinklerforum 
They have to be FM approved and/or UL listed.

What type of C-Clamps are planning on using?

Mike


From: Sprinklerforum  on behalf 
of Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 1:52 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 

Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us 
Subject: C-Clamp Hangers

Does anyone know the reasoning Why you would not be allowed to use C-Clamps
for your hanger attachments?



I've had a couple of specs have this requirement pass by my desk recently.



Jerry Van Kolken

Millennium Fire Protection Corp.

2950 San Luis Rey Rd.

Oceanside, CA 92058

(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730



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