Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Karl Billeter
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:21:19AM -0400, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
 
...
> Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer
> and winter begin:

Although see "Sprinter and Sprummer / Australia's Changing Seasons" - Timothy
Entwisle

http://www.publish.csiro.au/pid/7221.htm

:)


Karl
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Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Richard--

Thanks; that's in agreement with how we all perceive summer and winter.

I'd say that the astronomers and the newscasters and radio-personalities
should listen to the meteorologists.

Thanks again

Michael Ossipoff
26N, 80W

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Richard Mallett <
postmas...@rmallett.plus.com> wrote:

> On 11/06/2015 16:21, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi John--
>>
>> As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents of
>> Australia or Europe, in a New York minute.
>>
>> Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer
>> and winter begin:
>>
>> Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the parts
>> of the country which have distinct seasons.
>>
>> So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer
>> arrives with December, and winter arrives with June.
>>
>> Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define "summer" as
>> beginning at the summer solstice, and to define "winter" as beginning at
>> the winter solstice. There's not really any justification for those
>> arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who always
>> announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly way, on the
>> radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of "astronomical
>> quarters", because his "seasons" have nothing to do with the actual
>> seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended himself by saying
>> that he didn't invent those astronomical "season"-designations. But he was
>> still proclaiming them on the radio when the next solstice or equinox
>> arrived.
>>
>> Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote
>> them) knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been summer
>> for a long time.
>>
>> Michael Ossipoff
>> 26N, 80W
>>
>
> For meteorologists, winter is DJF, Spring is MAM, Summers is JJA, Autumn
> is SON.
>
>
> --
> --
> Richard Mallett
> Eaton Bray, Dunstable
> South Beds. UK
>
>
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Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Richard Mallett

On 11/06/2015 16:21, Michael Ossipoff wrote:



Hi John--

As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents 
of Australia or Europe, in a New York minute.


Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when 
summer and winter begin:


Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the 
parts of the country which have distinct seasons.


So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer 
arrives with December, and winter arrives with June.


Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define "summer" 
as beginning at the summer solstice, and to define "winter" as 
beginning at the winter solstice. There's not really any justification 
for those arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who 
always announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly 
way, on the radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of 
"astronomical quarters", because his "seasons" have nothing to do with 
the actual seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended 
himself by saying that he didn't invent those astronomical 
"season"-designations. But he was still proclaiming them on the radio 
when the next solstice or equinox arrived.


Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote 
them) knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been 
summer for a long time.


Michael Ossipoff
26N, 80W


For meteorologists, winter is DJF, Spring is MAM, Summers is JJA, Autumn 
is SON.



--
--
Richard Mallett
Eaton Bray, Dunstable
South Beds. UK

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Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Hi John--

As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents of
Australia or Europe, in a New York minute.

Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer
and winter begin:

Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the parts
of the country which have distinct seasons.

So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer arrives
with December, and winter arrives with June.

Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define "summer" as
beginning at the summer solstice, and to define "winter" as beginning at
the winter solstice. There's not really any justification for those
arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who always
announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly way, on the
radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of "astronomical
quarters", because his "seasons" have nothing to do with the actual
seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended himself by saying
that he didn't invent those astronomical "season"-designations. But he was
still proclaiming them on the radio when the next solstice or equinox
arrived.

Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote them)
knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been summer for a
long time.

Michael Ossipoff
26N, 80W






On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:30 PM, John Pickard 
wrote:

>
> Hi Michael,
>
> You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition
> of sunrise to use for your assignation.
>
> Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view
> a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food
> and beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?”
>
> But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or
> those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in
> the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds.
>
> I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many
> hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at
> auroras, and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets
> of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any
> sunrise.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> John Pickard
> john.pick...@bigpond.com
>
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
>
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Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Anne--

Thanks for your reply.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:26 AM, Bruvold Anne <
anne.bruv...@nordnorsk.vitensenter.no> wrote:

>  Just a comment from the far north on Dawn and Aurora:
> Aurora is the name of the light at dawn.
>

Yes, an edition of the Houghton Mifflin Dictionary gives these definitions
of "Aurora":

1. The Roman goddess of the dawn  2. The dawn  3. a) Aurora Borealis b)
Aurora Australis

...except that, in Roman and medieval times, "Aurora" didn't refer to the
dawn (the full arrival of Civil Twilight) itself, but to the _beginning_ of
the arrival of dawn. That's an important distinction.

My definition, above, is one that I've only found in one source: A library
book about time-reckoning throughout history. But its author evidently
researched, in detail, the several Roman/medieval words for significant
times during the morning. Though I only know of that one source that
supports my definition, it's the only source I've encountered that treats
the subject in detail at all.

An edition of Merriam-Webster gives the same definitions, except, in
different order:

1. Dawn  2. The Roman goddess of dawn  3. Aurora Borealis or Australis.



> The full name of green flaming bands visible at night in the far north and
> south is Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis. The name Aurora Borealis was
> given because the light as sees from middle Europe it resembles dawn, but
> was not dawn. Hence it got the addition Borealis. As the same phenomenon
> later was observed in the far south, the southern  version got the addition
> Australis.
>

Yes.


>
> Today the single word "Aurora" is no longer commonly used for the light at
> dawn, and is more often associated with the light phenomenon in the upper
> atmosphere.
>

Yes, I concede that nowadays "Aurora" is never, or nearly never, used with
its original meaning--the beginning of the arrival of dawn.   ...and that
it's always, or nearly always, used to refer to the upper-atmosphere
phenomenon of the far north and the far south.

I've never seen the Aurora Borealis, and I know that I've thereby been
missing something impressive.

Though I use the word "Aurora" with its original ancient meaning that's
practically unknown nowadays, it's the only word I know of, for that time
of morning--the beginning of the arrival of dawn.

I just don't know of any other word for it. It's something that people were
more familiar with long ago, when rising earlier, living closer to nature's
time, without any streetlights.

I envy people who live in Australia or Norway, and I don't mind admitting
that I'd quickly trade places.

Here in Florida, though not technically the tropics, it's tropical in a
number of ways: At summer-solstice noon, the sun is so nearly straight up
that a person can't really tell that it isn't. You can't find your shadow
unless you look straight down. In the summer, we're in the Trade Winds, the
tropical easterlies. I must say that I like the intense sunshine and the
warm "winter" temperature here, but the ultraviolet poses a skin-cancer
risk. My ancestors came from Northern Europe (Britain and Russia), and so
I'm not really designed for this latitude.

All sorts of insects and lizards everywhere. I've seen 5 alligators during
my 9 years in Florida.

Climate-wise, I like Florida, but I'd trade places because I've heard only
good things about Australia and Scandinavia.

Michael Ossipoff
26N,  80W




>
> - Reply message -
> Fra: "John Pickard" 
> Til: "sundial@uni-koeln.de" 
> Emne: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
> Dato: tor., juni 11, 2015 01:30
>
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition
> of sunrise to use for your assignation.
>
> Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view
> a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food
> and beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?”
>
> But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or
> those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in
> the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds.
>
> I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many
> hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at
> auroras, and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets
> of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any
> sunrise.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> John Pickard
> john.pick...@bigpond.com
>
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
>
---
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Re: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-11 Thread Bruvold Anne
Just a comment from the far north on Dawn and Aurora:

Aurora is the name of the light at dawn. The full name of green flaming bands 
visible at night in the far north and south is Aurora Borealis and Aurora 
Australis. The name Aurora Borealis was given because the light as sees from 
middle Europe it resembles dawn, but was not dawn. Hence it got the addition 
Borealis. As the same phenomenon later was observed in the far south, the 
southern  version got the addition Australis.

Today the single word "Aurora" is no longer commonly used for the light at 
dawn, and is more often associated with the light phenomenon in the upper 
atmosphere.

Best
Anne Bruvold

>From a place where people usually don't meet up to see the sunrise, but rather 
>stay up late to enjoy the midnight sun :-)




Sendt fra min HTC


- Reply message -
Fra: "John Pickard" 
Til: "sundial@uni-koeln.de" 
Emne: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Dato: tor., juni 11, 2015 01:30




Hi Michael,

You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of 
sunrise to use for your assignation.

Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a 
sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are "how much food and 
beer / wine do I bring?" and "are you bringing the picnic rug?"

But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those 
well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain 
hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds.

I'm not too sure about using "aurora" in the context of dawn. I spent many 
hours lying in the snow in winter (~ -30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, 
and it's something I've never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or 
shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise.

Cheers, John

John Pickard
john.pick...@bigpond.com<mailto:john.pick...@bigpond.com>

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Re: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-10 Thread John Pickard

Hi Michael,

You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of 
sunrise to use for your assignation.

Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a 
sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food and 
beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?”

But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those 
well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain 
hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds.

I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many 
hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, 
and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or 
shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise.

Cheers, John

John Pickard
john.pick...@bigpond.com 

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Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn

2015-06-10 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Some years ago, I was invited to go to the beach the following morning, to
observe the sunrise.

.

I preferred getting there well before sunrise, but I didn’t know how early
she was willing to start, and so I suggested that we meet at a time that
would get us there a little before Civil Twilight.

.

She said, “That late?”

.

Good, we agreed then. So I suggested something better: A meeting time that
would get us to the beach a little before Nautical Twilight. She said that
sounded better, and we agreed on that meeting-time.


I’d written-down the time at which Civil Twilight would start. But,
somewhat before that time, it was clear that Dawn, Civil Twilight, was
*beginning* to arrive. The beginning of the arrival of Civil Twilight was
definitely clearly there. That interested me.

.

Though the arrival of full Civil Twilight is practical for a number of
reasons, the *beginning *of its arrival seemed more significant, more
beautiful, to me.

.

So I wrote the time down, at that time.

.

It was a time when the altitude of the sun was about -9.37 degrees.

.

(Though I rounded to the nearest hundredth of a degree, I can’t guarantee
that all the inputs were accurate enough to justify that precision.)

.

As I said, that beginning, having a special beauty, seemed more significant
to me than the arrival of full Civil Twilight.

.

Later, I read that evidently that time in the morning was recognized in
Roman and Medieval times, and was given a name.

.

In those days, when people were living closer to nature, getting up
earlier, and without pervasive night-time artificial light, they recognized
several significant times in the morning:

.

Sunrise:


Self explanatory


Dawn:

.

This was a distinct time, before Sunrise. Surely it referred to the
beginning of Civil Twilight, the time when it’s first fully light enough to
look and feel like daytime. …when it’s first light enough to read or do
daytime activities, or to go safely.

.

Aurora:

.

This was the beginning of the arrival of Dawn.  …named after the Roman
goddess of Dawn.

.

That’s what I’d noticed, and recorded the time of, at the beach!

.

So: Unless someone else suggests a different time, I suggest that Aurora is
the time when the Sun’s altitude is -9.37 degrees.

.

Check it out, next time you’re up early.

.

By the way, if you aren’t up at least a little before Nautical Twilight,
then you aren’t really up early.

.

p.s.

.

On another topic: I wasn’t going to bother you about this in a separate
posting, but, since I’m posting anyway, I might as well include it:

.

In my previous post, I was talking about sundials that have the best
overall readability, in terms of time-of-year, time-of-day, and
viewing-direction.

.

After posting that, it occurred to me that I’d left something out: A
2-sided translucent equatorial dial with an equatorial disk, and also an
equatorial band.   …all translucent.

.

The equatorial band could be affixed to the equatorial disk, via tabs.   …like
the Band-Equatorial dial described  in Teacher’s Corner, at the NASS
website.

.

That article made the useful suggestion of constructing a Band-Equatorial
by affixing a flexible band to a circular edge--in that instance, the edge
of a circular cut in a piece of cardboard—via tabs.

.

But that circular edge could also be the edge of a circular disk. For a
table dial, viewed from above, the circular cut is best.

.

But, for a high-mounted dial, viewed from below, a disk is best. And so it
might as well be a translucent equatorial band affixed (by tabs) to a
2-sided translucent Equatorial Dial. …actually, one such band affixed to
each side of that disk.

.

Such a dial would be readable edge-on (in the plane of the disk).

.

If the band is narrow, then it won’t significantly interfere with the
viewing of the disk, or the opposite side of the band (for someone to whom
their side of the band isn’t readable because it’s morning and s/he’s east
of the dial, nearly in the plane of the disk).

.

Surely such a dial would have the best overall readability in terms of
time-of-year, time-of-day, and viewing-direction.


...with the Equatorial's added advantage of simplicity of explanation.

.

…but would take longer to build than a plain 2-sided translucent
Equatorial, or Vertical Declining, or Reclining-Declining dial.

.

Michael Ossipoff
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