Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Richard-- Thanks; that's in agreement with how we all perceive summer and winter. I'd say that the astronomers and the newscasters and radio-personalities should listen to the meteorologists. Thanks again Michael Ossipoff 26N, 80W On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Richard Mallett postmas...@rmallett.plus.com wrote: On 11/06/2015 16:21, Michael Ossipoff wrote: Hi John-- As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents of Australia or Europe, in a New York minute. Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer and winter begin: Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the parts of the country which have distinct seasons. So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer arrives with December, and winter arrives with June. Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define summer as beginning at the summer solstice, and to define winter as beginning at the winter solstice. There's not really any justification for those arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who always announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly way, on the radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of astronomical quarters, because his seasons have nothing to do with the actual seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended himself by saying that he didn't invent those astronomical season-designations. But he was still proclaiming them on the radio when the next solstice or equinox arrived. Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote them) knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been summer for a long time. Michael Ossipoff 26N, 80W For meteorologists, winter is DJF, Spring is MAM, Summers is JJA, Autumn is SON. -- -- Richard Mallett Eaton Bray, Dunstable South Beds. UK --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:21:19AM -0400, Michael Ossipoff wrote: ... Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer and winter begin: Although see Sprinter and Sprummer / Australia's Changing Seasons - Timothy Entwisle http://www.publish.csiro.au/pid/7221.htm :) Karl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Just a comment from the far north on Dawn and Aurora: Aurora is the name of the light at dawn. The full name of green flaming bands visible at night in the far north and south is Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis. The name Aurora Borealis was given because the light as sees from middle Europe it resembles dawn, but was not dawn. Hence it got the addition Borealis. As the same phenomenon later was observed in the far south, the southern version got the addition Australis. Today the single word Aurora is no longer commonly used for the light at dawn, and is more often associated with the light phenomenon in the upper atmosphere. Best Anne Bruvold From a place where people usually don't meet up to see the sunrise, but rather stay up late to enjoy the midnight sun :-) Sendt fra min HTC - Reply message - Fra: John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com Til: sundial@uni-koeln.de sundial@uni-koeln.de Emne: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn Dato: tor., juni 11, 2015 01:30 Hi Michael, You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of sunrise to use for your assignation. Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are how much food and beer / wine do I bring? and are you bringing the picnic rug? But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds. I'm not too sure about using aurora in the context of dawn. I spent many hours lying in the snow in winter (~ -30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, and it's something I've never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise. Cheers, John John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.commailto:john.pick...@bigpond.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Anne-- Thanks for your reply. On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:26 AM, Bruvold Anne anne.bruv...@nordnorsk.vitensenter.no wrote: Just a comment from the far north on Dawn and Aurora: Aurora is the name of the light at dawn. Yes, an edition of the Houghton Mifflin Dictionary gives these definitions of Aurora: 1. The Roman goddess of the dawn 2. The dawn 3. a) Aurora Borealis b) Aurora Australis ...except that, in Roman and medieval times, Aurora didn't refer to the dawn (the full arrival of Civil Twilight) itself, but to the _beginning_ of the arrival of dawn. That's an important distinction. My definition, above, is one that I've only found in one source: A library book about time-reckoning throughout history. But its author evidently researched, in detail, the several Roman/medieval words for significant times during the morning. Though I only know of that one source that supports my definition, it's the only source I've encountered that treats the subject in detail at all. An edition of Merriam-Webster gives the same definitions, except, in different order: 1. Dawn 2. The Roman goddess of dawn 3. Aurora Borealis or Australis. The full name of green flaming bands visible at night in the far north and south is Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis. The name Aurora Borealis was given because the light as sees from middle Europe it resembles dawn, but was not dawn. Hence it got the addition Borealis. As the same phenomenon later was observed in the far south, the southern version got the addition Australis. Yes. Today the single word Aurora is no longer commonly used for the light at dawn, and is more often associated with the light phenomenon in the upper atmosphere. Yes, I concede that nowadays Aurora is never, or nearly never, used with its original meaning--the beginning of the arrival of dawn. ...and that it's always, or nearly always, used to refer to the upper-atmosphere phenomenon of the far north and the far south. I've never seen the Aurora Borealis, and I know that I've thereby been missing something impressive. Though I use the word Aurora with its original ancient meaning that's practically unknown nowadays, it's the only word I know of, for that time of morning--the beginning of the arrival of dawn. I just don't know of any other word for it. It's something that people were more familiar with long ago, when rising earlier, living closer to nature's time, without any streetlights. I envy people who live in Australia or Norway, and I don't mind admitting that I'd quickly trade places. Here in Florida, though not technically the tropics, it's tropical in a number of ways: At summer-solstice noon, the sun is so nearly straight up that a person can't really tell that it isn't. You can't find your shadow unless you look straight down. In the summer, we're in the Trade Winds, the tropical easterlies. I must say that I like the intense sunshine and the warm winter temperature here, but the ultraviolet poses a skin-cancer risk. My ancestors came from Northern Europe (Britain and Russia), and so I'm not really designed for this latitude. All sorts of insects and lizards everywhere. I've seen 5 alligators during my 9 years in Florida. Climate-wise, I like Florida, but I'd trade places because I've heard only good things about Australia and Scandinavia. Michael Ossipoff 26N, 80W - Reply message - Fra: John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com Til: sundial@uni-koeln.de sundial@uni-koeln.de Emne: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn Dato: tor., juni 11, 2015 01:30 Hi Michael, You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of sunrise to use for your assignation. Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food and beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?” But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds. I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise. Cheers, John John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Hi John-- As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents of Australia or Europe, in a New York minute. Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer and winter begin: Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the parts of the country which have distinct seasons. So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer arrives with December, and winter arrives with June. Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define summer as beginning at the summer solstice, and to define winter as beginning at the winter solstice. There's not really any justification for those arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who always announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly way, on the radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of astronomical quarters, because his seasons have nothing to do with the actual seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended himself by saying that he didn't invent those astronomical season-designations. But he was still proclaiming them on the radio when the next solstice or equinox arrived. Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote them) knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been summer for a long time. Michael Ossipoff 26N, 80W On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:30 PM, John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Michael, You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of sunrise to use for your assignation. Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food and beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?” But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds. I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise. Cheers, John John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Fwd: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
On 11/06/2015 16:21, Michael Ossipoff wrote: Hi John-- As I was saying in my reply to Anne, I'd trade places with residents of Australia or Europe, in a New York minute. Yes, by the way, I agree with the Australian designation for when summer and winter begin: Here, it's obvious that summer arrives with June, especially in the parts of the country which have distinct seasons. So I agree with the designation in Australia that says that summer arrives with December, and winter arrives with June. Here, for some reason, our astronomers have decided to define summer as beginning at the summer solstice, and to define winter as beginning at the winter solstice. There's not really any justification for those arbitrary designations. Once I telephoned an astronomer who always announces the beginning of the seasons, defined in his silly way, on the radio. I explained to him that he should just speak of astronomical quarters, because his seasons have nothing to do with the actual seasons, as we all perceive them. He finally defended himself by saying that he didn't invent those astronomical season-designations. But he was still proclaiming them on the radio when the next solstice or equinox arrived. Everyone here (except the astronomers and the broadcasters who quote them) knows that, by the time June 21 arrives, it has already been summer for a long time. Michael Ossipoff 26N, 80W For meteorologists, winter is DJF, Spring is MAM, Summers is JJA, Autumn is SON. -- -- Richard Mallett Eaton Bray, Dunstable South Beds. UK --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Some years ago, I was invited to go to the beach the following morning, to observe the sunrise. . I preferred getting there well before sunrise, but I didn’t know how early she was willing to start, and so I suggested that we meet at a time that would get us there a little before Civil Twilight. . She said, “That late?” . Good, we agreed then. So I suggested something better: A meeting time that would get us to the beach a little before Nautical Twilight. She said that sounded better, and we agreed on that meeting-time. I’d written-down the time at which Civil Twilight would start. But, somewhat before that time, it was clear that Dawn, Civil Twilight, was *beginning* to arrive. The beginning of the arrival of Civil Twilight was definitely clearly there. That interested me. . Though the arrival of full Civil Twilight is practical for a number of reasons, the *beginning *of its arrival seemed more significant, more beautiful, to me. . So I wrote the time down, at that time. . It was a time when the altitude of the sun was about -9.37 degrees. . (Though I rounded to the nearest hundredth of a degree, I can’t guarantee that all the inputs were accurate enough to justify that precision.) . As I said, that beginning, having a special beauty, seemed more significant to me than the arrival of full Civil Twilight. . Later, I read that evidently that time in the morning was recognized in Roman and Medieval times, and was given a name. . In those days, when people were living closer to nature, getting up earlier, and without pervasive night-time artificial light, they recognized several significant times in the morning: . Sunrise: Self explanatory Dawn: . This was a distinct time, before Sunrise. Surely it referred to the beginning of Civil Twilight, the time when it’s first fully light enough to look and feel like daytime. …when it’s first light enough to read or do daytime activities, or to go safely. . Aurora: . This was the beginning of the arrival of Dawn. …named after the Roman goddess of Dawn. . That’s what I’d noticed, and recorded the time of, at the beach! . So: Unless someone else suggests a different time, I suggest that Aurora is the time when the Sun’s altitude is -9.37 degrees. . Check it out, next time you’re up early. . By the way, if you aren’t up at least a little before Nautical Twilight, then you aren’t really up early. . p.s. . On another topic: I wasn’t going to bother you about this in a separate posting, but, since I’m posting anyway, I might as well include it: . In my previous post, I was talking about sundials that have the best overall readability, in terms of time-of-year, time-of-day, and viewing-direction. . After posting that, it occurred to me that I’d left something out: A 2-sided translucent equatorial dial with an equatorial disk, and also an equatorial band. …all translucent. . The equatorial band could be affixed to the equatorial disk, via tabs. …like the Band-Equatorial dial described in Teacher’s Corner, at the NASS website. . That article made the useful suggestion of constructing a Band-Equatorial by affixing a flexible band to a circular edge--in that instance, the edge of a circular cut in a piece of cardboard—via tabs. . But that circular edge could also be the edge of a circular disk. For a table dial, viewed from above, the circular cut is best. . But, for a high-mounted dial, viewed from below, a disk is best. And so it might as well be a translucent equatorial band affixed (by tabs) to a 2-sided translucent Equatorial Dial. …actually, one such band affixed to each side of that disk. . Such a dial would be readable edge-on (in the plane of the disk). . If the band is narrow, then it won’t significantly interfere with the viewing of the disk, or the opposite side of the band (for someone to whom their side of the band isn’t readable because it’s morning and s/he’s east of the dial, nearly in the plane of the disk). . Surely such a dial would have the best overall readability in terms of time-of-year, time-of-day, and viewing-direction. ...with the Equatorial's added advantage of simplicity of explanation. . …but would take longer to build than a plain 2-sided translucent Equatorial, or Vertical Declining, or Reclining-Declining dial. . Michael Ossipoff --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Aurora, the beginning of the arrival of Dawn
Hi Michael, You are making life far too complicated by worrying about which definition of sunrise to use for your assignation. Here in Australia, if you are invited by a young (or older) woman to view a sunrise from a beach, the only questions to be asked are “how much food and beer / wine do I bring?” and “are you bringing the picnic rug?” But we are now in grip of winter in Sydney, and only the truly brave (or those well fortified by alcohol anti-freeze) would venture to the beach in the vain hope of glimpsing the dawn through the clouds. I’m not too sure about using “aurora” in the context of dawn. I spent many hours lying in the snow in winter (~ –30C) in Antarctica looking up at auroras, and it’s something I’ve never forgotten. Whether rippling sheets of light, or shooting beams, they were pure magic. Far, far better than any sunrise. Cheers, John John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
