Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On 19 March 2016 at 23:18, Dave Swarthout wrote: > My original intent in this post was to determine what tags to use in > describing the guest house as an AirBnB venue. A guest house may be listed on AirBnB and via a number of other agencies. If we're listing one agency (and I'm not convinced we should), we should list them all - and with a generic property. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Janko Mihelić wrote: > The best thing you can do is map the exact address of the place, and the > front door. Then if someone wants to find where it is, they call the owner > and ask for the address. That's a problem in Thailand if you search for an English address because there are so many ways to transliterate Thai into English and back again. If attempting to search by address it's an almost insurmountable problem. Sometimes a posted steet name has different English transliterations at each end of it. No joke. Today I was working in a town called variously, Ban Pa Dat, Ban Pa Dad, Ban Pa Daet, Ban Pha Daet, Ban Pha Dad, etc., it goes on and on. Since the street names are derived from the town names I think you can see the difficulty. I think I'll just forget about it. I'm reminded too, as Joost pointed out, that many of these places are private homes and some of those owners may not want the locations made public for very good reasons. Perhaps that's why the locations shown on the AirBnB site are so imprecise. In the case of the example I used in my OP, there are signs over the door and on several of the roads leading to it so I think I'll leave that one. Thanks to all for your help, Dave -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
It looks like AirBnB are working on an API, including search by lat/lon. That might be a better integration mechanism for the "click here for more information" use case. https://www.quora.com/Does-Airbnb-have-a-publicly-accessible-programming-API http://airbnbapi.org/#listing-search --colin On 2016-03-20 11:53, Janko Mihelić wrote: > The best thing you can do is map the exact address of the place, and the > front door. Then if someone wants to find where it is, they call the owner > and ask for the address. > > Janko > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
The best thing you can do is map the exact address of the place, and the front door. Then if someone wants to find where it is, they call the owner and ask for the address. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Sun, 2016-03-20 at 11:30 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > Am 20.03.2016 um 11:17 schrieb joost schouppe > om>: > > > adding something in the line of externalid:airbnb=12345 and > > website:airbnb=http://airbnb.com/property=12345 . > I insist on the notion that copying foreign keys from/to > a proprietary db into osm is likely not consented by that foreign db > proprietor, and even if it was we shouldn't do it (e.g. because we > don't control these keys and there is no guarantee whatsoever that > these are stable) > +1 Also why should be favour one booking company, if we add these tags surely we have to treat all equally so we should also add late rooms, booking.com and any others I haven't thought of. Phil ( trigpoint)___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
sent from a phone > Am 20.03.2016 um 11:17 schrieb joost schouppe : > > adding something in the line of externalid:airbnb=12345 and > website:airbnb=http://airbnb.com/property=12345 . I insist on the notion that copying foreign keys from/to a proprietary db into osm is likely not consented by that foreign db proprietor, and even if it was we shouldn't do it (e.g. because we don't control these keys and there is no guarantee whatsoever that these are stable) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
Dave, I rented out my own house with AirBnB once, and do not keep a sign out. I would definitely not appreciate my house being marked on a map as a guesthouse because of that. However, as you got the data from a survey, I don't see a problem in those cases. Only a main tag like guesthouse if it is clearly marked as such. I would personally look into a solution like adding something in the line of externalid:airbnb=12345 and website:airbnb=http://airbnb.com/property=12345 . As far as I know there's no proposition for a generalized external id of things. Wikidata is used for that, but that's just one of many providers in my opinion. I once wrote a diary entry about the possible use of such a tagging style: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/diary/34328 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
sent from a phone > Am 20.03.2016 um 00:18 schrieb Dave Swarthout : > > If it turns out that such places are legitimate to tag, how should I indicate > that they are "administered" through AirBnB? they aren't administered through Airbnb. Airbnb is just one of many websites and services that act as an agent to bring guests and hosts together, but as a host you can use many of these at the same time (there no exclusivity). It's similar to tagging that a venue has an ad in a newspaper: the newspaper isn't administering the venue. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
Dave Swarthout Wrote in message: > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably > sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house but personally as one who > frequently uses AirBnB, I would like to be able to locate them more precisely > than is possible using the maps on their website, which are not very exact. > The locations can be off by several city blocks and when one is pulling a big > roller bag along behind it would be nice be able to walk directly to the > correct location. > In searching Taginfo, I saw only a few instances of the word "AirBnB" and > most of those were tagged as operator=AirBnB. As I understand it, the > operators are the owners of the property whereas AirBnB is a corporation that > contracts with those owners in some sort of a franchise arrangement. > Another common tag containing the term "AirBnB" is the website URL that > points to the specific property. The one I'm working on at the moment is near > where I live and is quite a nice venue: > https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/6020019 > > Suggestions? Perhaps network = fits better. -- Holger Android NewsGroup Reader http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
My original intent in this post was to determine what tags to use in describing the guest house as an AirBnB venue. The issue of legality hadn't really occurred to me. If it turns out that such places are legitimate to tag, how should I indicate that they are "administered" through AirBnB? The AirBnB connection isn't a franchise in the usual sense, nor does AirBnB "operate" those venues. AirBnB takes a percentage of the rent from the owner when the reservation is made through the AirBnB website but AFAIK the owner is also free to rent the place separately. I think I will defer adding any of them until the issue of legality is resolved. I will also talk to some hosts and look at the AirBnB terms of agreement to get a better feel for the type of contract involved in the arrangement between the parties. On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Andy Townsend wrote: > On 19/03/2016 04:41, Dave Swarthout wrote: > >> I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably >> sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house but personally as one who >> frequently uses AirBnB >> > > It'll depend on the individual location, won't it? Some I'm sure will be > essentially normal guest houses who just happen to do most or all of their > business via AirBnB; some will be occasionally-let rooms in private houses > that most certainly aren't. Presumably the usual OSM guidelines apply - > when you visit a place you decide how best to categorise it? > > Cheers, > Andy > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On 19/03/2016 04:41, Dave Swarthout wrote: I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house but personally as one who frequently uses AirBnB It'll depend on the individual location, won't it? Some I'm sure will be essentially normal guest houses who just happen to do most or all of their business via AirBnB; some will be occasionally-let rooms in private houses that most certainly aren't. Presumably the usual OSM guidelines apply - when you visit a place you decide how best to categorise it? Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On 03/19/2016 05:41 AM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house tourism=guest_house guest_house=clandestine Beside all the arguments previously expressed here, many owners use AirBnB as undeclared income and the last thing they want is fiscal authorities noticing that their property is a guest house. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:38:05 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > On Sat, 2016-03-19 at 11:41 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote: > > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. > > The only authoritative source for the houses currently offered on > Airbnb is Airbnb itself. That is untrue. For cases where signs are placed by owner it is fairly easy to find such locations during survey. For cases where owner put no signs of any kind I would respect this decision and do no map such location (it applies to regions where putting signs is typically done by owners of guest houses or similar objects). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
sent from a phone > Am 19.03.2016 um 07:07 schrieb Dave Swarthout : > > The fact that they are advertised, on AirBnB and locally on signs, seems to > imply that the data is available for public consumption. But maybe including > them in OSM is, as you suggest,illegal I also assume that copying systematically urls from airbnb is likely forbidden (EU db directive and ToS), but if there's a business you know of (e.g. through local signs), you can add them (I wouldn't put the ref to airbnb), also with email, phone etc. The same holds true for similar sites like booking.com etc. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 00:38:05 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > On Sat, 2016-03-19 at 11:41 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote: > > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. > > The only authoritative source for the houses currently offered on > Airbnb is Airbnb itself. There is a reason Airbnb does not show exact > address or even exact locations on the map. > > This data absolutely, positively, does not belong in OpenStreetMap, as > there would be no end of ethical, moral, and possibly legal problems > from doing so. If you've added any of these already, I'd recommend > quickly reverting the changes. > At least some AirBnB locations are de facto hotels (with all legal & practical complications). I see absolutely no problem with mapping such locations (I am not sure how as I never encountered such locations - I am unsure how exactly "we are hotel but for legal purposes we are pretending to not be" is done). Also, I see absolutely no problem with marking privately operated guest houses or houses where some rooms are reserved for rent for tourists. For example in Poland it is typical for people in tourism areas (mountains, seashore, etc) to rent rooms during holidays. In many cases houses are explicitly constructed to make renting some rooms easy and in many areas all/nearly all/most of holiday lodgings is of this type. I tagged locations like this and I see no ethical, moral and legal problems with that practise. The Airbnb case does seem to be similar, though it is possible that data may get outdated quicker. Though it may be useful to establish subtag for guest house for cases where one building contains both permanent residence and rooms for short-term renting. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:32:17 -0700 Indy Hurt wrote: > Since AirBnBs are primarily private homes, it doesn't seem > appropriate to add them to OpenStreetMap. I see no problem with mapping ones functioning as guest houses or a de facto hotel using AirBnB for practical/legal reasons. Mapping ones rented once a year seems like a bad idea. > violation of AirBnB's terms of service to take data from their > website and host it on another's (OpenStreetMap in this case) Direct copying would also violate rules of OSM (unless this data is available on suitable license). It was also mentioned that this data is highly inaccurate. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
Interesting responses. The location and name of the venue I linked to was taken from a survey of my area today so the only info I got from the official AirBnB site is the url of the particular property. I ride around on a bicycle or motorcycle and add data that is of interest to me and I had seen the signs for this venue before but today I happened upon it and thought its exact location would be of value to data consumers like myself. I have a two AirBnB places reserved in Iceland and Amsterdam this May and I'm wondering how I'll go about finding them without my trusty GPS to guide me. Shawn, I agree that AirBnB properties are privately owned but the same is true of most hotels and guest houses worldwide. The fact that they are advertised, on AirBnB and locally on signs, seems to imply that the data is available for public consumption. But maybe including them in OSM is, as you suggest,illegal. I'll wait to see what others have to say. I've only tagged this one place at the moment. Dave On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > On Sat, 2016-03-19 at 11:41 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote: > > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. > > The only authoritative source for the houses currently offered on Airbnb > is Airbnb itself. There is a reason Airbnb does not show exact address > or even exact locations on the map. > > This data absolutely, positively, does not belong in OpenStreetMap, as > there would be no end of ethical, moral, and possibly legal problems > from doing so. If you've added any of these already, I'd recommend > quickly reverting the changes. > > -- > Shawn K. Quinn > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
On Sat, 2016-03-19 at 11:41 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote: > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. The only authoritative source for the houses currently offered on Airbnb is Airbnb itself. There is a reason Airbnb does not show exact address or even exact locations on the map. This data absolutely, positively, does not belong in OpenStreetMap, as there would be no end of ethical, moral, and possibly legal problems from doing so. If you've added any of these already, I'd recommend quickly reverting the changes. -- Shawn K. Quinn ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AirBnB
Since AirBnBs are primarily private homes, it doesn't seem appropriate to add them to OpenStreetMap. Additionally, it may be a violation of AirBnB's terms of service to take data from their website and host it on another's (OpenStreetMap in this case). Last but definitely not least, if a host decides to stop making their property available through AirBnB, they may or may not know that their home address is still being prominently featured on OpenStreetMap as a guest house. I'm curious to see what others have to say about this. (Dave, that listing you linked looks awesome - wish I was there now!) -IndyMapper Indy https://about.me/indyhurt On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: > I'm looking for a consistent way to tag AirBnB locations. It's probably > sufficient to tag them as tourism=guest_house but personally as one who > frequently uses AirBnB, I would like to be able to locate them more > precisely than is possible using the maps on their website, which are not > very exact. The locations can be off by several city blocks and when one is > pulling a big roller bag along behind it would be nice be able to walk > directly to the correct location. > > In searching Taginfo, I saw only a few instances of the word "AirBnB" and > most of those were tagged as operator=AirBnB. As I understand it, the > operators are the owners of the property whereas AirBnB is a corporation > that contracts with those owners in some sort of a franchise arrangement. > > Another common tag containing the term "AirBnB" is the website URL that > points to the specific property. The one I'm working on at the moment is > near where I live and is quite a nice venue: > > https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/6020019 > > Suggestions? > > -- > Dave Swarthout > Homer, Alaska > Chiang Mai, Thailand > Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging