Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
b...@evoria.net said: The reference pages indicate that a PPS interface is required. Most times when somebody says that PPS is required, they leave off the for decent timekeeping. I don't have a UT+, but I'd be very surprised if NTP didn't work without PPS. You can add noselect to the server line and it will collect all the data but not use that server for timekeeping. You can monitor it to see how well it works. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I don't have a UT+, but I'd be very surprised if NTP didn't work without PPS. Currently (based on the comments) the driver won't start and in a previous incarnation it actually stopped NTPD. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
I tried to run a UT+ based ref clock with no PPS. I wanted to use the PPS but it was not working because I was using a long cable with no drivers. I gave up and moved the NTP server physically close to the GPS receiver and it worked. With no reliable PPS the reference clock got rejected. What happens after that depends on what else is going on inside NTP and what other reference clocks you have configured. Almost all NTP servers that would use a GPS as a reference clock would also use other NTP servers as reference clocks. It is also common to use the computer's internal clock as a reference too. As long as there is one clock NTP will work. I don't have a UT+, but I'd be very surprised if NTP didn't work without PPS. Currently (based on the comments) the driver won't start and in a previous incarnation it actually stopped NTPD. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Hi If you have a serial “thing” hooked to the GPS, pulling the sawtooth data out of it is not very hard. They all have some sort of repeating message that contains time / date / sawtooth information. Bob On Apr 19, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: I've done as much as I can do with my little Adafruit, so I guess it's time to move to a timing receiver. I already have a UT+, so I might as well make use of it. My thought was to use the NTP refclock driver and probably take the sawtooth from SHMEM with a simple C program to pass to my GPSDO. The reference pages indicate that a PPS interface is required. Do I need to wire up the PPS just to get access to the sawtooth value, or can I just hook up serial access to the UT+ and use NTP as an interface to the UT+? I have no experience with setting up a refclock driver, so any help would be appreciated. Using NTP certainly looks a lot easier than figuring out why this UT+ doesn't always like to talk on the serial port and writing custom code to do the bits I want. The PPS from the UT+ will, of course, be connected to my GPSDO board. From the manual: The driver requires a standard PPS interface for the pulse-per-second output from the receiver. The serial data stream alone does not provide precision time stamps (0-50msec variance, according to the manual), whereas the PPS output is precise down to 50 nsec (1 sigma) for the VP/UT models and 25 nsec for the M12 Timing. If you do not have the PPS signal available, then you should probably be using the NMEA driver rather than the Oncore driver. Bob - AE6RV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Hi Bob, There seems to be some issue with this UT+ that I haven't dealt with. After a cold boot it does not like to start up the comms. There is apparently some handshake procedure to get it all up properly, as the demo version of SynTac's software didn't have any problem with getting it going last summer. I just don't know what the proper sequence of probes is to boot it. Since it's been off of battery power for many months, I assume it's going to come up mute when I wire it in again. It always has before when the battery is disconnected. My assumption was that NTP would know the secret handshake. Writing the software to extract the sawtooth is no big deal. It has version 2.2 of the firmware. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi If you have a serial “thing” hooked to the GPS, pulling the sawtooth data out of it is not very hard. They all have some sort of repeating message that contains time / date / sawtooth information. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Hi Bob, Somehow I missed that page in all the times I looked through the Oncore manuals I have. I see various commands to tell it to change this or change that, but no clear path on how to talk to a UT+ that is mute but not bricked. I'll go back through the PDFs I have. Maybe I just don't have the right document. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi There are a series of init strings you send to any of these modules to get them into the “right” mode. There’s nothing secret about it. It’s all in the manuals for what ever board you have. You decide what you want it to send you and then tell it what to do. Bob On Apr 19, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, There seems to be some issue with this UT+ that I haven't dealt with. After a cold boot it does not like to start up the comms. There is apparently some handshake procedure to get it all up properly, as the demo version of SynTac's software didn't have any problem with getting it going last summer. I just don't know what the proper sequence of probes is to boot it. Since it's been off of battery power for many months, I assume it's going to come up mute when I wire it in again. It always has before when the battery is disconnected. My assumption was that NTP would know the secret handshake. Writing the software to extract the sawtooth is no big deal. It has version 2.2 of the firmware. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi If you have a serial “thing” hooked to the GPS, pulling the sawtooth data out of it is not very hard. They all have some sort of repeating message that contains time / date / sawtooth information. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Hi There are a series of init strings you send to any of these modules to get them into the “right” mode. There’s nothing secret about it. It’s all in the manuals for what ever board you have. You decide what you want it to send you and then tell it what to do. Bob On Apr 19, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, There seems to be some issue with this UT+ that I haven't dealt with. After a cold boot it does not like to start up the comms. There is apparently some handshake procedure to get it all up properly, as the demo version of SynTac's software didn't have any problem with getting it going last summer. I just don't know what the proper sequence of probes is to boot it. Since it's been off of battery power for many months, I assume it's going to come up mute when I wire it in again. It always has before when the battery is disconnected. My assumption was that NTP would know the secret handshake. Writing the software to extract the sawtooth is no big deal. It has version 2.2 of the firmware. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi If you have a serial “thing” hooked to the GPS, pulling the sawtooth data out of it is not very hard. They all have some sort of repeating message that contains time / date / sawtooth information. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
If you are running NTP, always you are going to need the PPS. This applies for any GPS receiver. The data you get over the serial port is never intended for timingIf you do not use PPS your NTP server will see the GPS as being such a poor clock that it will likely ignore it in favor of some Internet time servers. If you don't understand what data to send to your UT+ to get it started. Look at what NTP sends over the serial port. You can even cheat and let NTP send whatever it does then disconnect the UT+ from the PC and it will keep going until you kill the power. (I was so lazy I used this method for a while.) Sorry I've forgotten the details but you can look at the code in the ref. clock driver or simply capture the data off the wire. It uses a binary protocol so don't try to capture it with a terminal. You only really need the PPS if NTP is going to seriously use the UT+ for timing.The data comes out the serial port no matter if the PPS is connected or not. Who would the GPS know it the PPS was used? PPS is a one way interface. On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: I've done as much as I can do with my little Adafruit, so I guess it's time to move to a timing receiver. I already have a UT+, so I might as well make use of it. My thought was to use the NTP refclock driver and probably take the sawtooth from SHMEM with a simple C program to pass to my GPSDO. The reference pages indicate that a PPS interface is required. Do I need to wire up the PPS just to get access to the sawtooth value, or can I just hook up serial access to the UT+ and use NTP as an interface to the UT+? I have no experience with setting up a refclock driver, so any help would be appreciated. Using NTP certainly looks a lot easier than figuring out why this UT+ doesn't always like to talk on the serial port and writing custom code to do the bits I want. The PPS from the UT+ will, of course, be connected to my GPSDO board. From the manual: The driver requires a standard PPS interface for the pulse-per-second output from the receiver. The serial data stream alone does not provide precision time stamps (0-50msec variance, according to the manual), whereas the PPS output is precise down to 50 nsec (1 sigma) for the VP/UT models and 25 nsec for the M12 Timing. If you do not have the PPS signal available, then you should probably be using the NMEA driver rather than the Oncore driver. Bob - AE6RV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Hi If you tell it to turn off all of the “broadcast” strings, it’s not going to be very helpful when powered up. If the baud rate is set to something nutty, that’s an issue as well. I normally figure out a command that is certain to give a response and then play with baud rate settings until I get the response. There is of course the chance that the serial port is blown on the device you have. Bob On Apr 19, 2014, at 9:18 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, Somehow I missed that page in all the times I looked through the Oncore manuals I have. I see various commands to tell it to change this or change that, but no clear path on how to talk to a UT+ that is mute but not bricked. I'll go back through the PDFs I have. Maybe I just don't have the right document. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi There are a series of init strings you send to any of these modules to get them into the “right” mode. There’s nothing secret about it. It’s all in the manuals for what ever board you have. You decide what you want it to send you and then tell it what to do. Bob On Apr 19, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, There seems to be some issue with this UT+ that I haven't dealt with. After a cold boot it does not like to start up the comms. There is apparently some handshake procedure to get it all up properly, as the demo version of SynTac's software didn't have any problem with getting it going last summer. I just don't know what the proper sequence of probes is to boot it. Since it's been off of battery power for many months, I assume it's going to come up mute when I wire it in again. It always has before when the battery is disconnected. My assumption was that NTP would know the secret handshake. Writing the software to extract the sawtooth is no big deal. It has version 2.2 of the firmware. Bob From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ Hi If you have a serial “thing” hooked to the GPS, pulling the sawtooth data out of it is not very hard. They all have some sort of repeating message that contains time / date / sawtooth information. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Somehow I missed that page in all the times I looked through the Oncore manuals I have. I see various commands to tell it to change this or change that, but no clear path on how to talk to a UT+ that is mute but not bricked. You could just reference the NTP refclock driver. It determines the model and does appropriate initialization. It's a bit more flexible than some drivers since it uses a configuration file rather than just a mode selector. I suspect the sawtooth data is in the special status file. * Driver for some of the various the Motorola Oncore GPS receivers. * should work with Basic, PVT6, VP, UT, UT+, GT, GT+, SL, M12, M12+T * The receivers with TRAIM (VP, UT, UT+, M12+T), will be more accurate * than the others. * The receivers without position hold (GT, GT+) will be less accurate. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+
Thanks Paul. As I mentioned to Bob, I'll look through that. I can still picture in my mind the code that does the startup. I just reached my aggravation saturation point with it last summer and put in the Adafruit. Bob From: Paul tic-...@bodosom.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP and Oncore UT+ On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Somehow I missed that page in all the times I looked through the Oncore manuals I have. I see various commands to tell it to change this or change that, but no clear path on how to talk to a UT+ that is mute but not bricked. You could just reference the NTP refclock driver. It determines the model and does appropriate initialization. It's a bit more flexible than some drivers since it uses a configuration file rather than just a mode selector. I suspect the sawtooth data is in the special status file. * Driver for some of the various the Motorola Oncore GPS receivers. * should work with Basic, PVT6, VP, UT, UT+, GT, GT+, SL, M12, M12+T * The receivers with TRAIM (VP, UT, UT+, M12+T), will be more accurate * than the others. * The receivers without position hold (GT, GT+) will be less accurate. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
