Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:22, Paul Novitski wrote: The FIELDSET definition could easily have included: (INPUT|SELECT|TEXTAREA|BUTTON)+ or: (%formctrl)+ But it doesn't. And if it did then the fieldset couldn't contain elements that add extra semantic information about the form controls, their labels, and their relationships to each other. The DTD almost always errs towards the liberal, it is expected that documents be written according to the prose of the specification and not just the machine readable components of it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
On 6 Jun 2007, at 2:59 PM, John Faulds wrote: Well if we're going to talk about 'pedanticness' it has to be pointed out that there's no such word; the word you're looking for is 'pedantry'. Pedanticity? ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
On 06/06/07, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6 Jun 2007, at 2:59 PM, John Faulds wrote: Well if we're going to talk about 'pedanticness' it has to be pointed out that there's no such word; the word you're looking for is 'pedantry'. Pedanticity? Isn't that where they all go for their holidays...? :) No, you cannot make your navigation out of turtles that move across the screen and are only available for forty percent of the day - Sean Madden *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
okay, I hate to play post-police, but... can someone explain to me what this has to do with web standards? Nick Gleitzman wrote: On 6 Jun 2007, at 2:59 PM, John Faulds wrote: Well if we're going to talk about 'pedanticness' it has to be pointed out that there's no such word; the word you're looking for is 'pedantry'. Pedanticity? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
On 06/06/07, Raine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: okay, I hate to play post-police, but... can someone explain to me what this has to do with web standards? You really have to ask what pedantry has to do with web standards..!? ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions
Dave Lane schreef: Drupal uses php as its template language, too, which is a breath of fresh air (given that PHP *is* a template language, I find it amusing that so many people insist on inventing new templating languages written in PHP but with different syntaxes and without all of PHP's capabilities). It's true that PHP is a template engine by itself, but I think something like Smarty (http://smarty.php.net) can be a nice tool to devide the back-end from the front-end. This can be done using only PHP as well, but as Smarty has it's own set of variables front-end developers can not mess up the back-ends logic. cheers, Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
Let me be so bold as to nip this thread in the bud via one trip to the dictionary: pedantic definition adj. Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details. pedantic synonyms adjective Characterized by a narrow concern for book learning and formal rules, without knowledge or experience of practical matters: academic, bookish, donnish, formalistic, inkhorn, literary, pedantical, scholastic. See attitude, flexible, teach pedantical synonyms adjective Characterized by a narrow concern for book learning and formal rules, without knowledge or experience of practical matters: academic, bookish, donnish, formalistic, inkhorn, literary, pedantic, scholastic. See attitude, flexible, teach pedantic derivatives pe·danprime.gifti·cal·ly adv. Synonyms: pedantic, academic, bookish, donnish, scholastic These adjectives mean marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus on or display of learning and especially its trivial aspects: a pedantic writing style; an academic insistence on precision; a bookish vocabulary; donnish refinement of speech; scholastic and excessively subtle reasoning. Matthew Pennell wrote: On 06/06/07, *Raine* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: okay, I hate to play post-police, but... can someone explain to me what this has to do with web standards? You really have to ask what pedantry has to do with web standards..!? ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
ADMIN Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
OK, people - enough fun and games. Lets try and keep the posts on topic and valuable, eh? :) warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core Member *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
Raine wrote: Let me be so bold as to nip this thread in the bud... Gee, sorry. I just thought, given the intensity that some people display here, a little levity every now and then helps the medicine go down - or something... Look what fun we can have: ... often tiresome ... display ... and ... trivial ... insistence on precision ... and excessively subtle reasoning. BTW, was there a point to posting the same definition twice? N ;o) ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
Lucien Stals wrote: It seems to me that many people here have different ideas about what semantic means. It would be helpful it we shared a common understanding in our conversations. I welcome, and invite, a *polite and professional* debate about the use of the term semantic as it relates to our work on the web. I have also noticed that the term semantic seems to be understood differently by different people, especially with respect to websites and coding. There are probably many reasons for this, but one reason is that there really are at least two different definitions in use: one is based on the proposal/theory of the Semantic Web, and the other is based on linguistics and the theory of how language produces meaning. These two definitions are similar and related, but not identical. And sometimes it appears that people slip back and forth from one definition to another. I'm not sure that I can define what semantic means in each case, but I would nevertheless highlight these two cases as two different uses of the word, and as one reason it can be difficult to come up with a common language to discuss semantics as they relate to web standards. Phil. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
On 2007/06/04 12:33 (GMT-0400) Philip Kiff apparently typed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/06/02 11:06 (GMT+0100) Designer apparently typed: Sparked partly by the recent discussions on elasticity, I've been attempting to put together a 'template', based on em's and with a max-width. [] You can see it at: http://www.marscovista.fsnet.co.uk/newtemplate/template.html I only looked in IE7 FF. Pretty good, although the line lengths are on the long side of what I like, and the text is too small. http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Sites/ksc/dancesrqb.html is the same basic layout, but without breaking IE's font resizer, with no special treatment for antique browsers, and without disrespecting the visitor's choice of font size. Just FYI, on my default browser settings, ... the font sizes used on Designer's site provide better readability than those on the DancesSRQ site. This is a rather curious statement considering that exclusive of the H1 text on Bob's site the largest text there is 75% (12px for most users of default settings), while on my site 90%+ of the text is 100% of the default (16px for most users of default settings) and only about 100 characters of fine print on mine is smaller than his smallest (see more below). In particular, the subheading tag line on the DancesSRQ is just a wee bit too small for my tastes -- my browser computes it as 10px. The one line #element7B p text was set to x-small, which was a mistake I corrected after posting. That line was an attempt to match the original site, which used text in an image. I substituted real text with CSS styling, but neglected to notice that my matching was done using my normal readable 20px default and I hadn't compensated for it, resulting in a smaller size than intended. At a 20px default, x-small is 15px, 75% of the default. If x-small was 75% at a 16px default, it would be 12px, not 10px (about which, see more below). The same size font is displayed in the bottom copyright statement. By contrast, the smallest size that appears on Designer's site shows up as 12px. No doubt it is a matter of taste and personal preference, but I would be cautious in promoting the current DancesSRQ design over the one used by Designer as far as font sizes are concerned. Only the one line #footer and 6 words of (bold, and precisely matching the original design) .specimen remain at 10px. I don't see how such a little bit of borderline readable (fine print) contextually styled text could compensate for the other 96% of the content's 100% or larger text, leaving Bob's with better readability for its mostly 75% or smaller content. As to x-small being 10px, I believe that even though it is exactly that in most web browsers by default, I also believe that it shouldn't be - so much so that I tried to do something about it several years ago by getting Gecko to make x-small 12px. See: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187256 . That possibly could still happen, but I'm guessing it won't. All that said, the way I judge the readability of any page is by the size of the bulk of its content and main navigation, not by a couple of minimal importance non-primary-content lines it contains. By that standard, Bob's is a substantial distance from comfortable to read, barely above fine print (pain) threshold in the absence of applied zoom or minimum font size. -- Respect everyone. I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
At 6/6/2007 01:13 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:22, Paul Novitski wrote: The FIELDSET definition could easily have included: (INPUT|SELECT|TEXTAREA|BUTTON)+ or: (%formctrl)+ But it doesn't. And if it did then the fieldset couldn't contain elements that add extra semantic information about the form controls, their labels, and their relationships to each other. Well, not really. The syntax allows us to eat our cake and have it, too: ((#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*,(%formctrl)+) If I'm wielding the syntax right, that gives you all the flexibility of the current element definition while still requiring at least one form control per fieldset. Or maybe it needs room for more %flow elements, like: ((#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*,(%formctrl,(%flow;)*)+) one chunk of character data, followed by: one legend, followed by: zero or more flow elements, followed by: one or more: form control, followed by: zero or more flow elements Mind you, FIELDSET's current content model definition doesn't look quite right to me: (#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*) I read this to say, required character data followed by a required LEGEND element followed by zero or more flow elements. This would appear to obviate the LEGEND coming first in the markup inside the FIELDSET: fieldsetlegendThis is a legend/legend... Where's the PCDATA between fieldset and legend? Unless there's something about the syntax I'm not understanding, the content mode should make the PCDATA optional: ((#PCDATA)*,LEGEND,(%flow;)*) The DTD almost always errs towards the liberal, it is expected that documents be written according to the prose of the specification and not just the machine readable components of it. That's a very interesting assertion and gets right to the heart of many of the debates on this list. It sounds counter-intuitive to me: I would expect the prose to be more liberal than the machine-readable DTD. Can you recall the source of that expectation? If we could nail that one down it would certainly help clear up much of the apparent tension between the very specific DTD and the comparatively loose descriptive passages of the spec. I read the HTML spec as an annotated DTD, using prose to discuss and exemplify the element and attribute definitions for us mushy wetware types. Every section of the spec begins by quoting the DTD and then discussing those definitions. On a quick re-reading of the spec's introductory sections I don't see where we're advised to place more authority in the prose than in the DTD. Just to maintain perspective let me add that I'm pursuing this aspect of the discussion NOT as a campaign for fieldsets without form controls (I feel that part of the debate has been laid to rest) but rather because I want to better understand the DTD and its relationship to the spec, especially in a case like this where they appear to contradict. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Geoff Hall/BG/Health is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 06/06/2007 and will not return until 12/06/2007. For any departmental requests, please contact Online Communications (02) 6289 5402 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Important: This transmission is intented only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error please notify the author immediately and delete all copies of this transmission. * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
Hey Folks, was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. Cheers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
Felix Miata wrote: All that said, the way I judge the readability of any page is by the size of the bulk of its content and main navigation, not by a couple of minimal importance non-primary-content lines it contains. By that standard, Bob's is a substantial distance from comfortable to read, barely above fine print (pain) threshold in the absence of applied zoom or minimum font size. Interestingly, I notice that the text I produced on this 'template' (barely above fine print (pain) threshold) site is just marginally bigger than the default menu bars on FF2, IE7, Opera . . . Just an observation :-) -- Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
On Behalf Of Ryan Moore was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. plug src=http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp; / HTH --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
Try http://www.udm4.com/ from Brothercake as a starting place. Regards, Henny From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Moore Sent: 06 June 2007 19:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example Hey Folks, was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. Cheers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== 0U+M2K7yLccMbwCam9gUwEsL95CDFHulm0ITsYQ169DbRVXN1PtXPDnABS3tCnkbD8!009A5 NFp0oPM2zAM72r62QliopakFfuuzhCOvj5CUj+2o15vyQ2J5fJVFzFU6mFBSwGu7pCUwGS2f 4GVMdbvkOWo3za7gZSIRX2qRfcHFlUvB1AwYO0Uo to report this email as spam. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
On Jun 6, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Ryan Moore wrote: was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. I've used this very simple package many times. http:// www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/auto_hide/ Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
thanks, this is a great solution :) On 6/6/07, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Behalf Of Ryan Moore was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. plug src=http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp; / HTH --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
Bob, You have to take everything that Felix says with a grain of salt to say the least. Don't get into a p***ing contest with his judgement of font sizes. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Designer wrote: Felix Miata wrote: All that said, the way I judge the readability of any page is by the size of the bulk of its content and main navigation, not by a couple of minimal importance non-primary-content lines it contains. By that standard, Bob's is a substantial distance from comfortable to read, barely above fine print (pain) threshold in the absence of applied zoom or minimum font size. Interestingly, I notice that the text I produced on this 'template' (barely above fine print (pain) threshold) site is just marginally bigger than the default menu bars on FF2, IE7, Opera . . . Just an observation :-) -- Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
On Behalf Of Ryan Moore was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. From Thierry --- plug src=http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp; / HTH --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com - Also, the Yahoo! User Interface library has a nice menu script that is very accessible. It even has full keyboard support. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/ Ted *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
On 2007/06/06 19:45 (GMT+0100) Designer apparently typed: Felix Miata wrote: All that said, the way I judge the readability of any page is by the size of the bulk of its content and main navigation, not by a couple of minimal importance non-primary-content lines it contains. By that standard, Bob's is a substantial distance from comfortable to read, barely above fine print (pain) threshold in the absence of applied zoom or minimum font size. Interestingly, I notice that the text I produced on this 'template' (barely above fine print (pain) threshold) site is just marginally bigger than the default menu bars on FF2, IE7, Opera . . . Just an observation :-) Probably pretty close to exactly like this (standard XP 8pt/11.67px Tahoma menu text): http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/bobs2col096W.png Note that on KDE on Linux the default menu text is bigger (10pt/13.33px vs. your template's 75%/14px): http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/bobs2col096L.gif On Mac the menu text is apparently both bigger still, and more legible than your page text, since its contrast is much higher than your #333 on #F1F1F1, while the same apparent size (but not the x-height gigantic Verdana): http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/bobs2col096M.jpg All the way back at least into W95, doz has defaulted to what M$ for many years called small text for its UI. With XP in 2001 it renamed it from small to normal. Your interesting observation I haven't seen mentioned very often in any web development forums, but I did address it quite some time back: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/defaultsize.html#note1 . The summary of that paragraph is that normal web page content text has no business being anywhere near as small as browser UI text. -- Respect everyone. I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ie word wrap mess-help
Hi can anyone suggest how i might get this definition list to wrap around the thumb image which is inside the h2 tag. It wraps in ff and safari and netscape but not in ie: I cant move the image out of the h2 its dynamically generated from the cms. heres the url: http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/theatre see the problem: div class=article h2span class=permlinka rel=bookmark href=http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/theatre/deathwish; title=Permanent link to this articleimg src=http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/images/129t.jpg; alt= Deathwish!/a/span /h2 dl dd Dé Deardaoin Thursday 12ú Ionad Phobail An Mhachaire An Clochán Liath Maghery Community Centre, Dungloe (2pm amp; 7pm) /dd dd Dé hAoine Friday 13ú An Chuirt Hotel / Ostán An Chuirt, Gaoth Dobhair (2pm amp; 5pm) /dd dd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie word wrap mess-help
On 7 Jun 2007, at 8:34 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: Hi can anyone suggest how i might get this definition list to wrap around First, and always, validate your code. Your dl doesn't contain a dt... N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
Thierry Koblentz schreef: plug src=http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp; / It doesn't seem to work well with keyboard navigation, at least in Opera 9 and Firefox 2. cheers, Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ie word wrap mess-help
have you tried floating the image to the left? and do you really need an extra span tag around the link? and as Nick said try and validate your code first. cheers. e -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2007 8:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] ie word wrap mess-help Hi can anyone suggest how i might get this definition list to wrap around the thumb image which is inside the h2 tag. It wraps in ff and safari and netscape but not in ie: I cant move the image out of the h2 its dynamically generated from the cms. heres the url: http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/theatre see the problem: div class=article h2span class=permlinka rel=bookmark href=http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/theatre/deathwish; title=Permanent link to this articleimg src=http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/images/129t.jpg; alt= Deathwish!/a/span /h2 dl dd Dé Deardaoin Thursday 12ú Ionad Phobail An Mhachaire An Clochán Liath Maghery Community Centre, Dungloe (2pm amp; 7pm) /dd dd Dé hAoine Friday 13ú An Chuirt Hotel / Ostán An Chuirt, Gaoth Dobhair (2pm amp; 5pm) /dd dd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
Paul Novitski schreef: documents be written according to the prose of the specification and not just the machine readable components of it. The DTD almost always errs towards the liberal, it is expected that That's a very interesting assertion and gets right to the heart of many of the debates on this list. It sounds counter-intuitive to me: I would expect the prose to be more liberal than the machine-readable DTD. Can you recall the source of that expectation? If we could nail that one down it would certainly help clear up much of the apparent tension between the very specific DTD and the comparatively loose descriptive passages of the spec. I read the HTML spec as an annotated DTD, using prose to discuss and exemplify the element and attribute definitions for us mushy wetware types. Every section of the spec begins by quoting the DTD and then discussing those definitions. On a quick re-reading of the spec's introductory sections I don't see where we're advised to place more authority in the prose than in the DTD. Just to maintain perspective let me add that I'm pursuing this aspect of the discussion NOT as a campaign for fieldsets without form controls (I feel that part of the debate has been laid to rest) but rather because I want to better understand the DTD and its relationship to the spec, especially in a case like this where they appear to contradict. I was just reading something about this on the HTML5 mailing list (so it might not be applicable to the current HTML/XHTML versions). In the HTML5 working draft spec it says: ... To put it another way, there are three types of conformance criteria: Criteria that can be expressed in a DTD. Criteria that cannot be expressed by a DTD, but can still be checked by a machine. Criteria that can only be checked by a human. A conformance checker must check for the first two. A simple DTD-based validator only checks for the first class of errors and is therefore not a conforming conformance checker according to this specification. So in HTML5 the spec is definitly not just proze version of its DTD, but a lot more than that. Not all of which can be expressed in a DTD. Although I'm not sure I guess something similar will be the case with the current HTML and XHTML specs. cheers, Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Divs and Sections (was: What does Semantic mean?)
Lucien Stals wrote: A DIV (and a SPAN for that matter) are purely structural, not semantic. The only difference between a div and a span is that one is a block level element, and the other is an inline element. Apart from that, they have the same semantic meaning, which is none at all. And then he quotes the the HTML 4.01 Specification: The DIV and SPAN elements, in conjunction with the id and class attributes, offer a generic mechanism for adding structure to documents. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-DIV Well, the HTML 3.2 Reference Specification defined the DIV as: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div And now the HTML 5 Working Draft says: The div element represents nothing at all. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#div How the mighty have fallen... Now we are to get a new Section element: The section element represents a generic document or application section. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-section And around we all go... == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
On Behalf Of Sander Aarts Thierry Koblentz schreef: plug src=http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp; / It doesn't seem to work well with keyboard navigation, at least in Opera 9 and Firefox 2. Please try again, I just noticed that I commented a return false statement in the script. The problem now is that I can't remember if I just forgot to remove it or if there was a good reason for that comment to be there :-( Thanks for the heads-up. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
Hello everyone,
I think this is my first post, which is sort of embarrassing. I can't
find a css error, deadlines are looming, and I'm just not seeing the
problem.
In brief - I'm instituting a you are here in the navigation. The
site's default navigation style (in an external style sheet) is
over-ridden by a style for the link to this page (in an internal style
block). Except it's not. So I did something wrong and I'm just not
seeing it. Internal style blocks over-ride external style sheets, right?
Here is the relevant bit from the external style sheet:
#every_page li a {
display: block;
height: 1em;
padding: .6em;
font-size: small;
text-decoration: none;
color: #999;
background-color: #4F;
}
#every_page li a:hover {
background-color: #999;
color: #000;
}
This works just fine.
So in the internal style sheet, I do this:
style type=text/css
#index, index:hover { color: #4F; background: #003173; cursor: default;}
/style
The relevant xhtml:
lia id=index href=index.shtml title=Go HomeHome/a/li
I get the cursor change, but not the color change.
When I load the page, the link style for the link to this page is the
same as the others, except that the cursor is changed from a link
pointer to the default pointer. So I know the style is being applied,
it's just not over-riding the style from the external style sheet.
Do I have precedence wrong?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
The magic of asking for help. 17 seconds after I sent the email, I saw the problem and fixed it. Thanks for just being here. ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
style type=text/css
#every_page #index, #every_page #index:hover { color: #4F; background:
#003173; cursor: default;}
/style
should do it (you're also missing the # from index:hover).
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:40:35 +1000, JS Bracher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
#every_page
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RE: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
On Behalf Of JS Bracher
#every_page li a {
display: block;
height: 1em;
padding: .6em;
font-size: small;
text-decoration: none;
color: #999;
background-color: #4F;
}
#every_page li a:hover {
background-color: #999;
color: #000;
}
This works just fine.
So in the internal style sheet, I do this:
style type=text/css
#index, index:hover { color: #4F; background: #003173; cursor:
default;}
/style
The relevant xhtml:
lia id=index href=index.shtml title=Go HomeHome/a/li
I get the cursor change, but not the color change.
When I load the page, the link style for the link to this page is the
same as the others, except that the cursor is changed from a link
pointer to the default pointer. So I know the style is being applied,
it's just not over-riding the style from the external style sheet.
Do I have precedence wrong?
I'd say specificity, try this:
#every_page li #index,
#every_page li #index:hover { color: #4F; background: #003173;
cursor:default;}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
Thanks John.
Once I realized the problem was a specificity issue, I changed the
internal style block to:
li#index a, li#index a:hover ...
Which is not quite what you did, but it's similar.
Yours is better, it's more explicit about what is being styled.
John Faulds wrote:
style type=text/css
#every_page #index, #every_page #index:hover { color: #4F;
background: #003173; cursor: default;}
/style
should do it (you're also missing the # from index:hover).
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:40:35 +1000, JS Bracher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
#every_page
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[WSG] Netscape 9
In case you hadn't heard: http://www.avinio.blogspot.com/2007/06/netscape-navigator-90-released-first. html http://browser.netscape.com/ P *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
On 7 Jun 2007, at 2:25 PM, JS Bracher wrote: Once I realized the problem was a specificity issue, I changed the internal style block to: li#index a, li#index a:hover ... Hopefully you changed the HTML as well, because the sample you originally posted had the id of 'index' on the a, not the li - ? N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Help with css cascade problem from external style to internal style
On Behalf Of JS Bracher Once I realized the problem was a specificity issue, I changed the internal style block to: li#index a, li#index a:hover ... Which is not quite what you did, but it's similar. Actually, the above should *not* work as index is not the ID of an LI, but an A --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
Maybe I used a poor example. Microformats would certainly be my first choice for this. I just wish there was *more* software that could use it. And a plugin to add microformat data into a groupwise client. That would be nice :) I have no idea what groupwise is but could a user script could be created for the Operator Firefox plugin to add the data? The latest version of it allows you to add your own scripts (javascript) to do things with the data it finds. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106 There is also some talk about including future native support for microformats in Firefox 3 http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/mozilla_does_microformats_firefox3.php http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/02/04/microformats-part-4-the-user-interface-of-microformat-detection Microsoft's Live Clipboard also uses microformats http://rayozzie.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!FB3017FBB9B2E142!285.entry *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?
Groupwise is a Novel client (and server) for email and appointments etc. Think MS Outlook, by Novel. It's the proprietary email client and address book and calendar app we are obliged to use at work. It even comes with it's own chat client that doesn't talk to any other chat protocols. Being a closed source app, I'm having trouble looking for how to get it to read microformat data, but perhaps I'm looking at the problem the wrong way around. I will, as you suggest, look at getting operator to push the data into groupwise :) It would be a shame if I can't get it to work after having gone to the trouble of adding microformat event and vCard data to our departmental calendar and staff contact pages, respectively. Lucien. -- Lucien Stals Multimedia/Web Developer Academic Development and Support Swinburne University of Technology PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] telephone: +61 3 9214 4474 office: AD223 On 7/06/2007 at 2:57 pm, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I used a poor example. Microformats would certainly be my first choice for this. I just wish there was *more* software that could use it. And a plugin to add microformat data into a groupwise client. That would be nice :) I have no idea what groupwise is but could a user script could be created for the Operator Firefox plugin to add the data? The latest version of it allows you to add your own scripts (javascript) to do things with the data it finds. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106 There is also some talk about including future native support for microformats in Firefox 3 http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/mozilla_does_microformats_firefox3.php http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/02/04/microformats-part-4-the-user-interface- of-microformat-detection Microsoft's Live Clipboard also uses microformats http://rayozzie.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!FB3017FBB9B2E142!285.entry *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Lucien Stals TEL;WORK:4474 ORG:;Academic Development and Support EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:[EMAIL PROTECTED] N:Stals;Lucien END:VCARD *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
