I realize the English translation of those verses is different than I am
used to, but they are quoted from an Islamic site that does not credit
hadith in general.
Dear Scott,
Yes, I noted that. Rashad Khalifa led a "Qur'an alone" movement which
rejected the hadiths entirely. It made it possible f
Dear Scott,
I see you have been
visiting Dr. Khalifa's website. ;-} I would be very careful with that material.
He had his own agenda. These verses do not at all refer to the oral traditions
of the prophet. Hadith is a fairly common term meaning 'report.' You will note
that in this conte
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
I realize the English translation of those verses is different than I am used to, but they are quoted from an Islamic site that does not credit ha
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end o
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:57:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The
Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
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In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:53:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,What I don't get is what is your point here?
Well, it shows to me that Muhammed was well aware of the nature of a seal for authentication and validation. So it seems to me that using the term in d
Later in His life Muhammed found it necessary to conduct correspondence with
the Byzantines. They ignored letters that were not "sealed" a recognizable
seal being a sign of authoirty. It is recounted that Muhammed had a series
of ring seals made to authenticate His correspondence headed to Byzantiu
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:33:07 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Huh?
I think Muslims put as much stake in what Muhammad supposedly said at His last sermon as they do that verse in the Qur'an.
Later in His life Muhammed found it necessary to conduct correspondence wi
In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:23:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
this was
right after Muhammed had developed a signet ring (Seal) for doing business
with Byzantium.
Huh?
I think Muslims put as much stake in what Muhammad supposedly said at His
last sermon a
One person who spent time with the Master on two pilgrimages was Inez Greeven.
She told me in her home in Carmel California in the late 1970's that though the
Master generally spoke through an interpreter, there were times He spoke to her
in English. She did not indicate if this was a word or
In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:02:54 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,That is precisely Gilberto's point, that Muslims in rejecting any prophetafter Muhammad are simply following what God said.
Of course, but Baha`u'llah's words about the next Prophet are much clear
Baha`u'llah does not "tie the hands of God" He says what God bids Him to
say.
Dear Scott,
That is precisely Gilberto's point, that Muslims in rejecting any prophet
after Muhammad are simply following what God said.
warmest, Susan
__
You are sub
In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:07:56 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If tomorrow, somebody came andclaimed to be the next Manifestation, obedient Bahais would oppose hisor her claim becaues the thousand years isn't up yet. If that personpointed out that both the Quran and the
Gilberto,
At 08:07 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>I think you are looking at only one side of the question and are hung up on
>>the word "prophet" (in order to make a seperate probably valid point). What
>>I'm trying to get across is just that Bahais, in their own way, are also
>>being restrictive.
In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:28:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That
strikes me as kind of an arbitrary distinction, especially in areligious
context. It's not like looking up who is next in the orderor succession
after vice-president or something. In a religi
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 20:00:48 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
> criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come
> no sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much
> an
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 19:10:55 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Gilberto,
>
> At 06:33 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
> >>Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
> >>criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come no
> >>sooner t
"Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come
no sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much
an example of "typing up God's hands" as saying that Muhammad (saaws)
was the last pr
Hi, Gilberto,
At 06:33 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
>>criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come no
>>sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much an
>>example of "typing up Go
Dear Khazeh,
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get across. I realize
that many prophets and messengers suffered, and were persecuted and
underwent many difficulties. All I'm saying is that suffering in
doesn't prove that one is a prophet or messenger.
Peace
Gilberto
On Sat, 1 Jan
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:37:51 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Then I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
> insulting,"
> Dear Gilberto,
> I'm sure the Jews find that statement in the Qur'an insulting > as well. In
> fact, I know they do.
That's fine. And if tha
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43042.html
Khazeh:
> The Abrogation of the Shari'ah is really within the Will [Mashiyyat] of t
he
> Supreme Ordainer, exalted be His Names and Attributes.
That's the claim you are making. And that's probably one of the
essential points of difference betwee
"hen I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
insulting,"
Dear Gilberto,
I'm sure the Jews find that statement in the Qur'an insulting as well. In
fact, I know they do.
When I was about seventeen. I took a class on world scriptures in college
and had been asked to lead a weekly disc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My dear Gilberto
>
Dear Khazeh,
> Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
> love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the
green.
> I swear by God [God] this last point is not fair were you to have read and
>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:25:37 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto
>
> I really liked your letter below. Truly one can say reading this that the
> Spirit of God working through your knowledge of the Islamic Dispensation has
> warmed your soul [Nafs] your spirit [Ruh.]
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:42:55 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My dear Gilberto
>
Dear Khazeh,
> Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
> love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the green.
> I swear by God [Allah] t
My dear Gilberto
Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the green.
I swear by God [Allah] this last point is not fair were you to have read and
seen what I have seen.
At least I could say in all h
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 21:17:12 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Khazeh:
> In one sense one should go beyond a discussion over Names. If you dear
> Gilberto wish to look at the Writings of Baha'u'llah as that emanating from
> a WALI then that is certainly a start.
Gilberto:
Bu
Dear Gilberto
I really liked your letter below. Truly one can say reading this that the
Spirit of God working through your knowledge of the Islamic Dispensation has
warmed your soul [Nafs] your spirit [Ruh.] and your mind ['aql]
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43042.html
We are learnin
Some descriptions I've seen of the concept of "Perfect Man" are rather
exalted. So even if Bahais might use the term a little more liberally
than the term Manifestation they seem to be rather similar. At least
from what I remember what you had actually said was that the term
"manifestation" was use
Dear Gilberto
After giving you my warmest I am just slowly going through your kind letters
and the part I think (!) by the grace of God I mar respectfully answer. (As
I was posting this I am in receipt of other letters from your productive pen
which I have to think about later tonight after prayin
In a message dated 1/1/2005 3:39:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:The point isn't that it is an argument against more manifestations (ormore precisely the non-finality of prophethood.). The point is that itis another way to understand the Quranic statements which s
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:11:57 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 2:04:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> And in fact, it is a
> mainstream theological claim the the physical universe doesn't have
> any staying power of its own and t
Fair enough. Then I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
insulting, especially when Bahais make not dissimilar claims about
what kinds of people God will or won't send in the future.
Peace
Gilberto
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:50:04 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "I've
"According to comments made by Susan in a different context, the
concept of Manifestation corresponds somewhat to the concept of
Perfect Man. And I would say that although Islam would say there
aren't new prophets after Muhammad, it is possible for there to be
"Perfect Men" after the Muhammad."
De
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:45:50 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Yusuf Ali]
> > 034.029
> They say: "When will THIS PROMISE (come to pass) if ye are telling the
> truth?"
> > 034.030
> > Say: "The APPOINTMENT TO YOU IS FOR A DAY, which ye cannot put
> > back for an hour nor pu
In the following Letter dear Gilberto you write:
*
Gilberto:
But assuming this is true, how do you distinguish between someone who
is validly changing the law (if such a thing is possible) and someone
who is illegitimately doing so?
Gilberto:
I understand that this is your opinion. All I'm
In a message dated 1/1/2005 2:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And in fact, it is amainstream theological claim the the physical universe doesn't haveany staying power of its own and that moment to moment to moment, Godis constantly recreating everything over and over ag
"I've heard this accusation alot from Bahais but I don't believe it is
valid. I think there is a very big and clear distinction between
saying that God can't do something and that God didn't do something."
Dear Gilberto,
The Jews never said God couldn't literally do something. They were basicall
Oops.
>>The Greater Occultation (al-ghaybat al-kubra) began after the death of the
>>third of the four abvab ("babs") - the intercessors between the Twelfth Imam
>>and Muslims.<<
The ***last***of the four abvab.
With regards, Mark A. Foster * 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net
"Sacred cows make
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:06:41 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
>
> In the above missive
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
>
> my dear Gilberto writes:
> In Islam, especially among Sufis if you think a
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:46 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>It seems bizzare to say the dispensation of Muhammad didn't start until the
>>disappearance of the last imam.<<
It was the Lesser Occultation (al-ghaybat al-sughra), not the Dispensation of
Muhammad, which is believed to have started after the de
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:02 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>But isn't that kind of "continuity" still very different from what Bahais are
>>asserting. That's what I was trying to get across earlier.<<
Yes, it is different. I mentioned it as an example of one of the "tendencies" I
see in many of the religi
In
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43030.html
My brother Gilberto writes:
**"Dear Khazeh, when I read passages
like the above, they generally make
me think of my individual death. If they referred
mainly to
world-historical eschatological events then
it is only meaningful to a
[Yusuf Ali]
> 034.029
They say: "When will THIS PROMISE (come to pass) if ye are telling the
truth?"
> 034.030
> Say: "The APPOINTMENT TO YOU IS FOR A DAY, which ye cannot put
> back for an hour nor put forward."
Dear Khazeh, when I read passages like the above, they generally make
me think of
Hi, Gilberto,
At 08:42 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>I didn't closely follow the omniscience discussion so I'm not sure if
>>specific claims along these lines were made in the Bahai writings regarding
>>Abdul-Baha but aren't both *knowing* how to understand a language and
>>*knowing* how to speak
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
In the above missive
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
my dear Gilberto writes:
In Islam, especially among Sufis if you think about concepts like the
Perfect Man or the
Qut.b, in a certain sense Muslims might even recogniz
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:21:05 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto
> I always read your emails with great interest and affection
Thank you.
> I read again what you write with great interest.
> The necessity for Progressive Revelation and the absolute
> need for th
In
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43013.html
Gilberto writes:
Gilberto:
Do you have any insight as to why that might be appealing? Personally,
I don't think the religion is so much about authority or that
individual anyway. I like religions more based on principles, like
Taoism and Bud
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:26:13 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Gilberto,
> At 07:47 AM 12/31/2004, Gilberto:wrote:
> >>Do you have any insight as to why that [a timeless succession of major
> >>prophets] might be appealing?<<
Mark:
> Subjectively, that is a difficult questi
In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:42:40 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I didn't
closely follow the omniscience discussion so I'm not sure ifspecific
claims along these lines were made in the Bahai writingsregarding
Abdul-Baha but aren't both *knowing* how to underst
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 05:02:22 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Susan: <>Dear Ron and Sandra, I think Abdu'l-Baha's
> knowledge of English may well have been adequate to understand
> people without an interpreter much of the time, at least by
> the time He left America. I sus
Susan: <>Dear Ron and Sandra, I think Abdu'l-Baha's
knowledge of English may well have been adequate to understand
people without an interpreter much of the time, at least by
the time He left America. I suspect speaking English back to
them may have been more of a problem. But when a transla
The reference is to Isaiah 11 verse 6
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall
lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling
together; AND A LITTLE CHILD SHALL LEAD THEM.
And the Master's Tablet to Miss F. Drayton says:
**inna dhaalika
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