Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/15/2019 8:09 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What do the various Hayes modemS do when you type "aT" ? I can speak to all modems, as I gave away most of mine. But the one I have right now has the following behavior: AT -> OK at -> OK aT -> CR, no LF, essentially echoing back the CR th

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
What do the various Hayes modemS do when you type "aT" ? What do they do when you used mixed case? And, are they all the same? (as mentioned before, "Hayes Compatible" was never completely defined.)

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/15/2019 5:18 PM, Chris Osborn via cctalk wrote: On Nov 15, 2019, at 1:54 PM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: MCU should set receive line coding to 8,N,1. When in command mode, you don't care about parity Actually it's in command mode that you *do* care about parity, which is why I added t

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/14/2019 9:17 AM, a...@alanlee.org wrote: I think you may be over thinking this.  I suppose a system could send a bit-stream where the data bits + any parity bits != 8 or the parity bit isn't in the trailing MSB position.  However, for simplification lets consider only that case.  A mode

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Chris Osborn via cctalk
On Nov 15, 2019, at 1:54 PM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: > MCU should set receive line coding to 8,N,1. When in command mode, you don't > care about parity Actually it's in command mode that you *do* care about parity, which is why I added the parity detection in the first place. Without the

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/15/2019 1:38 PM, Jim Brain wrote: On 11/15/2019 3:12 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: (If it is of any consequence at this point) If those vertical groups of 4 are intended to correspond to the first group of AT/at/At/aT, then you have the case bit (0x20) inverted, uppercase are bit

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread alan--- via cctalk
Again.. I really think you are overthinking this. MCU should set receive line coding to 8,N,1. When in command mode, you don't care about parity as it is presumed the connection from the host machine to the modem is short and largely has integrity. Every byte you receive in 8,N,1 command m

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/15/2019 3:12 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: On 2019-Nov-14, at 10:23 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: If you look at the values received by an 8N1 connection from a sender using the different settings, you get: AT at At aT 7E1 E174 41D4

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread geneb via cctalk
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: While you're working in that code, would it be possible to derive the baud rate of the host like the Smartmodem did? The modem would set the baud rate on the first command sent to the modem. It would be kind of a neat feature to have. :) BTW

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-15 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Nov-14, at 10:23 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > If you look at the values received by an 8N1 connection from a sender using > the different settings, you get: > > AT > at > At > aT > 7E1 > E174 > 41D4 > E1D4 > 4174 > 7O1 > 61F4 >

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/15/2019 12:37 AM, Jim Brain wrote: Looks like there might be a few more corner cases as well.  Maybe modems did not accept mixed case.  AT and at seem to work fine... Anyone have a modem handy to check? Spoiler alert... They do not.  Only 'at' and 'AT' are recognized.  So, bit 5 of both

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
Looks like there might be a few more corner cases as well.  Maybe modems did not accept mixed case.  AT and at seem to work fine... Anyone have a modem handy to check?

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
If you look at the values received by an 8N1 connection from a sender using the different settings, you get: AT at At aT 7E1 E174 41D4 E1D4 4174 7O1 61F4 C154 6154 C1F4 7M1 E1F4 C1D4

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Nov-14, at 9:59 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > On 2019-Nov-14, at 9:30 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: >> On 11/14/2019 11:05 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> (Without having gone through the code presented in full detail, but >>> thinking from root premises.) >>> >>

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Nov-14, at 9:30 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 11/14/2019 11:05 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >> >> (Without having gone through the code presented in full detail, but thinking >> from root premises.) >> >> ASCII A = 0x41 --> 2 bits on >> ASCII T = 0x54 --> 3 bits on > > I a

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
On Thu, Nov 14, 2019, 10:30 PM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 11/14/2019 11:05 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > > > > (Without having gone through the code presented in full detail, but > thinking from root premises.) > > > > ASCII A = 0x41 --> 2 bits on > > ASCII T = 0x54 --> 3 bits on >

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/14/2019 11:05 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: (Without having gone through the code presented in full detail, but thinking from root premises.) ASCII A = 0x41 --> 2 bits on ASCII T = 0x54 --> 3 bits on I agree, though I believe aT,At,AT,and at are all allowed, which complicates th

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Nov-14, at 6:48 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > Well, I am off and running on getting my version of the code up to speed: > > https://github.com/go4retro/tcpser > > Man, some of this code is rough. I have learned a lot about writing C code > in the last decade+. > > Anyway, while I w

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
Well, I am off and running on getting my version of the code up to speed: https://github.com/go4retro/tcpser Man, some of this code is rough.  I have learned a lot about writing C code in the last decade+. Anyway, while I work on adding the appropriate functionality into the codebase, I find

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread brianb1224 via cctalk
r via cctalk Date: 11/14/19 10:41 AM (GMT-06:00) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Question about modems On 11/14/19 7:41 AM, Jim MacKenzie via cctalk wrote:> I have a ham radio callsign too (VE5EV) and one of these years I intend > to really experiment with packet radio, and eventuall

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 11/14/19 7:41 AM, Jim MacKenzie via cctalk wrote: I have a ham radio callsign too (VE5EV) and one of these years I intend to really experiment with packet radio, and eventually, AX25 TCP/IP networking over radio using packet modems. I'm also interested in packet. I keep poking friends & co

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread alan--- via cctalk
I think you may be over thinking this. I suppose a system could send a bit-stream where the data bits + any parity bits != 8 or the parity bit isn't in the trailing MSB position. However, for simplification lets consider only that case. A modem will always set the local line coding to 8,N

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread alan--- via cctalk
On 2019-11-13 09:17, geneb via cctalk wrote: Jim, I'd try reaching out to Dale Heatherington... Dale generally keeps to himself and rarely talks shop outside of the context of telecommunication discussions - which he also avoids. I've asked him if he would like to speak at VCF-SE a couple t

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim MacKenzie via cctalk
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:08 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Question about modems >What do you need to do to use an acoustic mo

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-14 Thread Jim MacKenzie via cctalk
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of allison via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 6:02 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Question about modems > Like RS232/432 signaling the art and science is getting lost to time

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Chris Osborn via cctalk
On Nov 13, 2019, at 5:07 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > What do you need to do to use an acoustic modem with a cellphone? > You can get a "retro" handset for a cellphone, that will fit the rubber cups, > but, will it work? Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQqWHLZjOjA -- Follow me on

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Nov-13, at 5:22 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: > ... I can simply connect 2 modems to each > other via a POTS phone cable, attach each modem via serial cable to a > different laptop, and set one to Listen and the other to Answer via > HyperTerminal. This will work for some modems,

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 11/13/19 5:25 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: And here my problem is that I have the old modems, but I can't test them because I no longer have a land line. ~chuckle~ Is there any way to test an internal or external modem without anything except broadband or cellular connections?

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
A "telephone line simulator". On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Electronics Plus wrote: A young gent (about 22 yrs old) reminded me of HyperTerminal on XP. Since I have stacks of old working XP laptops, I can simply connect 2 modems to each other via a POTS phone cable, attach each modem via serial cable to

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Electronics Plus via cctalk
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:08 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Question about modems On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Electronics Plus via cctalk

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote: And here my problem is that I have the old modems, but I can't test them because I no longer have a land line. Is there any way to test an internal or external modem without anything except broadband or cellular connections? I know I can't

RE: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Electronics Plus via cctalk
The case presented is an true corner case. Usually modems can be set for rate, bits, and parity that matches the target system. AS modem became more sophisticated (26/33/56k) they were easily set and I just a few I have. Older 300/1200/2400 baud modems like DEC DF02/03 had switch settings lik

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/13/2019 3:41 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: No. While each end might be able to communicate with the local modem in command mode using different parameters, when they are in connected mode the modems will not convert anything, just pass the exact format along. So if one end is expect

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread allison via cctalk
On 11/13/19 4:16 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 11/13/19 1:31 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> But, stuff like commands to the modem didn't need much of that, and >> needed to be able to communicate in spite of wrong parameters.  It >> made sense for a modem to recognize a command, even

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 11/13/19 2:41 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: No. While each end might be able to communicate with the local modem in command mode using different parameters, when they are in connected mode the modems will not convert anything, just pass the exact format along. So if one end is expectin

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Nigel Johnson via cctalk
No. While each end might be able to communicate with the local modem in command mode using different parameters, when they are in connected mode the modems will not convert anything, just pass the exact format along. So if one end is expecting 7E2 and the other is sending 8N1 there will be a 50

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 11/13/19 1:31 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: But, stuff like commands to the modem didn't need much of that, and needed to be able to communicate in spite of wrong parameters. It made sense for a modem to recognize a command, even with wrong parity, etc. Okay Now I'm thinking that t

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Are you sure that the parity stripping (for lack of a better description) was meant to translate things between modems? I would speculate that it was to transition from serial communications which inherently depend on those settings to TCP co

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
The following is based on my limited understanding. I could easily be wrong. Please correct me if I am. On 11/13/19 12:25 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: Some time ago, Chris Osborn (FozzTexx) forked a copy of my project to fix some bugs and he also added in some parity code, which looks to

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
And, more than one different model! A bunch of yuears ago, Joe Campbell ("C Programmer's Guide To Serialo Communication", "RS232 Solution", etc, NOT the PBS Joe Campbell) told me that he was doing some consulting for Hayes, about setting up the standard for "Hayes Compatible"; it seemed that n

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Frank McConnell via cctalk
On Nov 13, 2019, at 10:41, Nigel Johnson wrote: > > > On 13/11/2019 13:36, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> There are other "oddball" combinations, such as 8E1 and 8O1, which sends >> a 9-bit data frame. You can see datasheets on some UARTs as well as MCU >> UARTs that support the 9 bit packet.

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 11/13/19 10:41 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: > > On 13/11/2019 13:36, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> There are other "oddball" combinations, such as 8E1 and 8O1, which sends >> a 9-bit data frame.  You can see datasheets on some UARTs as well as MCU >> UARTs that support the 9 bit packe

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Nigel Johnson via cctalk
On 13/11/2019 13:36, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: There are other "oddball" combinations, such as 8E1 and 8O1, which sends a 9-bit data frame. You can see datasheets on some UARTs as well as MCU UARTs that support the 9 bit packet. According to the diagram of the Smartmodem there is no UART,

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
There are other "oddball" combinations, such as 8E1 and 8O1, which sends a 9-bit data frame. You can see datasheets on some UARTs as well as MCU UARTs that support the 9 bit packet. Also, don't/doesn't TDD (5 level code) use 5E2 or some such. Same for Telex/TWX. --Chuck

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Nigel Johnson via cctalk
Not much in the manual.  I browsed it looking for anything about data bits and stop bits. Nothing. p1-2: ' Commands given to the Smartmodem must be ASCII coded at baud rates between 110 baud and 1200 baud. Once 'on-line', any code at any speed from 0 to 300 baud may be used.' p 9-1 'Do not s

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Frank McConnell via cctalk
On Nov 13, 2019, at 6:40, allison wrote: > > On 11/13/19 9:17 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Did Hayes modem really do that? I thought most later modems self >>> detected parity and speed and thus would have switched both the comm >>> on th

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread John Labovitz via cctalk
On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:17 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 11/13/2019 7:47 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: >> Jim, its a long time I don't use it, but I've used other configurations >> beyond 8N1 and I remember when you put the modem in 7E1 it mirrored the >> configuration of the oth

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/13/2019 5:31 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: I actually have an original Hayes 300 modem. Would it be any use if I could set it up for a a test, or would it need another genuine Hayes one to talk to for what you need? I looked at the SmartModem 300.  It looks like it completely detec

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
On 11/13/2019 7:47 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: Jim, its a long time I don't use it, but I've used other configurations beyond 8N1 and I remember when you put the modem in 7E1 it mirrored the configuration of the other side. If you had a vax with a 2400 7E1 port, you gotta have in the

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread allison via cctalk
On 11/13/19 9:17 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > >> Did Hayes modem really do that?  I thought most later modems self >> detected parity and speed and thus would have switched both the comm >> on the serial port and the data sent to the other side i

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread geneb via cctalk
On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: Did Hayes modem really do that?  I thought most later modems self detected parity and speed and thus would have switched both the comm on the serial port and the data sent to the other side in the same parity (if the terminal was 7E1, the modem

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Alexandre Souza via cctalk
Jim, its a long time I don't use it, but I've used other configurations beyond 8N1 and I remember when you put the modem in 7E1 it mirrored the configuration of the other side. If you had a vax with a 2400 7E1 port, you gotta have in the terminal 2400 7E1 So, you gotta match the configuration

Re: Question about modems

2019-11-13 Thread Nigel Johnson via cctalk
I actually have an original Hayes 300 modem. Would it be any use if I could set it up for a a test, or would it need another genuine Hayes one to talk to for what you need? cheers, Nigel On 13/11/2019 02:25, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: I am the author of tcpser, a UNIX/Windows program that e